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The New Product Release Thread

Hard for new products to come out when nobody does any research or funds any studies. Novel is a foreign concept in this industry. People don't want to spend the money to do a study and get real structure function claims. Instead, it's all about marketing and BS. Look we took the same 20 ingredients on the market and put them in different doses from someone else. We do get the occasional random ingredient that doesn't really exist, that is never tested for label claim and talks about being the most advanced thing ever. With no data. This is the industry standard. The amount of products on the market that never see QC/QA is mind blowing. I think I've done more testing of competing products than the companies that make them lol.
 
1Fast400 said:
Hard for new products to come out when nobody does any research or funds any studies. Novel is a foreign concept in this industry. People don't want to spend the money to do a study and get real structure function claims. Instead, it's all about marketing and BS. Look we took the same 20 ingredients on the market and put them in different doses from someone else. We do get the occasional random ingredient that doesn't really exist, that is never tested for label claim and talks about being the most advanced thing ever. With no data. This is the industry standard. The amount of products on the market that never see QC/QA is mind blowing. I think I've done more testing of competing products than the companies that make them lol.
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Devil's advocate here. Wouldn't most people discount the study simply because the company that funded the study are also the ones that make the product?
 
1Fast400 said:
Hard for new products to come out when nobody does any research or funds any studies. Novel is a foreign concept in this industry. People don't want to spend the money to do a study and get real structure function claims. Instead, it's all about marketing and BS. Look we took the same 20 ingredients on the market and put them in different doses from someone else. We do get the occasional random ingredient that doesn't really exist, that is never tested for label claim and talks about being the most advanced thing ever. With no data. This is the industry standard. The amount of products on the market that never see QC/QA is mind blowing. I think I've done more testing of competing products than the companies that make them lol.
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we have become a nation of settlers, we settle for less...rather than demanding better....this goes for everything, not only supplements!!! the bar is set very low....
 
Age old argument. That's why they have review boards before doing the study. Why journals have another review board before a paper is published. There is a HUGE difference in presenting a study and publishing a study. Schools have reputations just like anything else. There are schools that are pay for play so to speak and big places like UNC, Oklahoma and USF that have strong reputations. Sadly, most people who critique studies online have never ran a study, been in a lab or around any aspect of research other than reading pub med.

If someone is willing to fund studies on things for me and let me have rights to it, I'm all for it. I've had negative outcome studies. Where we hoped for one outcome to support a new product and it didn't work out. Abandon the project. It was 2 years and 200k+ out the door. That's why we rarely come out with new stuff. Real science and innovation takes time. The next 5 things I release will each be game changers in their own way.
 
I agree and am more than familiar with what goes into both pre-clinical and clinical studies. However, most supplement users fall under that category of people that don't. I'm simply playing devil's advocate and wondering what the benefit would be to the company. If they invest the time and money necessary to get solid results, would it really be worth it from a marketing standpoint if most of their customers would doubt the findings or would buy into "facts" they put on their packaging, whether they were backed up with actual data or not.
 
It's the legal component. If you don't have data, you can't make claims. The FDA/FTC is cracking down on this hard. So many companies are violating this rule, it's not even funny. Using 5g of something, but making claims based off 7-10-14g. Companies are being blasted by lawyers right now. Which is often the case, they come first, then government comes after. Numerous companies are being sued for unfair business practices, which is a triple damages lawsuit. Ask Gaspari, it sunk him. I've contemplated blasting the amino category with lawsuits, it's just not my nature. I did have a lawsuit earlier this year where someone came after me, it ended up costing them well into 6 figures and me, nothing. I've collected a mountain of ad copy and internet posts from companies should I decide one day to go after people. It gets annoying to play by the rules and watch everyone else just lie constantly. Time to pay for some.
 
1Fast400 said:
It's the legal component. If you don't have data, you can't make claims. The FDA/FTC is cracking down on this hard. So many companies are violating this rule, it's not even funny. Using 5g of something, but making claims based off 7-10-14g. Companies are being blasted by lawyers right now. Which is often the case, they come first, then government comes after. Numerous companies are being sued for unfair business practices, which is a triple damages lawsuit. Ask Gaspari, it sunk him. I've contemplated blasting the amino category with lawsuits, it's just not my nature. I did have a lawsuit earlier this year where someone came after me, it ended up costing them well into 6 figures and me, nothing. I've collected a mountain of ad copy and internet posts from companies should I decide one day to go after people. It gets annoying to play by the rules and watch everyone else just lie constantly. Time to pay for some.
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You really sounds like me just with MUCH better english lol.

I am also one who is tired of false claims,underdosed supplements, ingredients that will not do anything in humans and low quality ingredients.
 
1Fast400 said:
Hard for new products to come out when nobody does any research or funds any studies. Novel is a foreign concept in this industry. People don't want to spend the money to do a study and get real structure function claims. Instead, it's all about marketing and BS. Look we took the same 20 ingredients on the market and put them in different doses from someone else. We do get the occasional random ingredient that doesn't really exist, that is never tested for label claim and talks about being the most advanced thing ever. With no data. This is the industry standard. The amount of products on the market that never see QC/QA is mind blowing. I think I've done more testing of competing products than the companies that make them lol.
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Do you see a lot of companies falling apart or sinking in 2016 due to these FDA Changes?
 
I think we are pretty lucky to have the supplements we have now

Possible Staples = Creatine, TMG, BA, BCAA/EAA, Hica, LCLT, SL granules.....
Pump/Endurance = L-cit, Kno3, Agmatine, GMS/Glycerol.....
GDA = berberine, Na-r-ala (agmatine).......
Possible builders = ARA, SL Granules......

Epi I'm not sure about due to mixed reports but seems to be great for health benefits.

Lemon verbena even though used outside of PES is what I would class as novel, I would like this to make a comeback.

Anyway Rushed that as I'm about to leave the house. Sorry if mistakes.
 
The Solution said:
Do you see a lot of companies falling apart or sinking in 2016 due to these FDA Changes?
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The fines have yet to be greater than the profit. That's the main issue. What's the deterrent if you can make 2-3 million dollars and pay a 100-200k fine? The USP case could be a huge game changer. If an owner goes to prison, it may change some of the behavior we've seen. It takes a lot to sink a significant size company. MP has been a perfect example of that. It will take massive civil lawsuits to do that. A lot of companies are turning big top lines numbers but not making a lot of profit. Makes these lawsuits very hurtful.
 
1Fast400 said:
The fines have yet to be greater than the profit. That's the main issue. What's the deterrent if you can make 2-3 million dollars and pay a 100-200k fine? The USP case could be a huge game changer. If an owner goes to prison, it may change some of the behavior we've seen. It takes a lot to sink a significant size company. MP has been a perfect example of that. It will take massive civil lawsuits to do that. A lot of companies are turning big top lines numbers but not making a lot of profit. Makes these lawsuits very hurtful.
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Do you see companies rebranding or changing the claims on their products to help defend their image and lawsuits? Possibly put that extra money into research (which may or may not happen) to help back what they put on their product?
 
I have zero expectation of companies putting money into research. It takes a minimum of 18-24 months to get a paper published. They will do what most companies are doing now. Aim to have products cost under 6 dollars to manufacture, attempt to sell them online for 30 bucks, then constantly whore them out on deals constantly to make consumers think they are getting a deal. The majority of supplement companies are nothing but marketing companies.

One company is being hit with multiple lawsuits on unfair business practices and has doubled down on the very thing they are being sued for.
 
1Fast400 said:
I have zero expectation of companies putting money into research. It takes a minimum of 18-24 months to get a paper published. They will do what most companies are doing now. Aim to have products cost under 6 dollars to manufacture, attempt to sell them online for 30 bucks, then constantly whore them out on deals constantly to make consumers think they are getting a deal. The majority of supplement companies are nothing but marketing companies.

One company is being hit with multiple lawsuits on unfair business practices and has doubled down on the very thing they are being sued for.
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What kinda new products are we talking about... I have used 1.5 tons of Xtend! And i love it so much! I use it pwo..With some addet stimes sometimes..But i could drink it all day..-And some days i do :D !! Just looooooove Xtend Blue and Apple!
 
DennisTheDane said:
What kinda new products are we talking about... I have used 1.5 tons of Xtend! And i love it so much! I use it pwo..With some addet stimes sometimes..But i could drink it all day..-And some days i do :D !! Just looooooove Xtend Blue and Apple!
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New version sounds legit from the solution feedback
 
The original will always be made, just have improvements. We have some new performance technology we've been working with. Very excited about it. Earliest we'll have it ready is around end of year though.
 
1Fast400 said:
The original will always be made, just have improvements. We have some new performance technology we've been working with. Very excited about it. Earliest we'll have it ready is around end of year though.
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The taste, did it improved or is it the same? I tried many years ago and didnt like the taste. Sour,chemical and metallic taste imo
 
If you don't like artificial flavor, we have xtend free in berry and apple. No artificial colors, flavors or sweeteners. I've heard our flavors described in a lot of ways, but not sour. If anything, too sweet.

The new version will begin 3 flavors. Two that are matches to what we already make and 1 new flavor that I feel is the best flavor we've made.
 
1Fast400 said:
If you don't like artificial flavor, we have xtend free in berry and apple. No artificial colors, flavors or sweeteners. I've heard our flavors described in a lot of ways, but not sour. If anything, too sweet.

The new version will begin 3 flavors. Two that are matches to what we already make and 1 new flavor that I feel is the best flavor we've made.
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I want to try Mango taste. Sounds delicious :)
 
1Fast400 said:
If you don't like artificial flavor, we have xtend free in berry and apple. No artificial colors, flavors or sweeteners. I've heard our flavors described in a lot of ways, but not sour. If anything, too sweet.

The new version will begin 3 flavors. Two that are matches to what we already make and 1 new flavor that I feel is the best flavor we've made.
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I admit I have never tried xtend but looking forward to the new version, Always heard great reports on flavour.
 
Thanks man, appreciate it. Our Xtend study will be published this week. Hopefully when we show people that when you take in adequate protein that you can still benefit from taking Xtend, that will help business. It's a nice little study that compares to other controls.
 
1Fast400 said:
They will do what most companies are doing now. Aim to have products cost under 6 dollars to manufacture, attempt to sell them online for 30 bucks, then constantly whore them out on deals constantly to make consumers think they are getting a deal. The majority of supplement companies are nothing but marketing companies.
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Excellent post. I could not agree more with this statement.
 
The original was horrible lol. We took out more than 1/4lb of flavoring. Think about that. That's back in the day when we didn't really know what we were doing when it came to flavoring. We'll have a limited edition series coming end of summer a lot of you guys will like.
 
1Fast400 said:
The original was horrible lol. We took out more than 1/4lb of flavoring. Think about that. That's back in the day when we didn't really know what we were doing when it came to flavoring. We'll have a limited edition series coming end of summer a lot of you guys will like.
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Curiosity piqued.
 
1Fast400 said:
The original was horrible lol. We took out more than 1/4lb of flavoring. Think about that. That's back in the day when we didn't really know what we were doing when it came to flavoring. We'll have a limited edition series coming end of summer a lot of you guys will like.
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I remember that when you reformulated to the new labels. Not to mentoin the flak people gave you when you improved the product and lowered the flavoring. I still remember on the other board all the bro's saying "it doesn't taste as good I don't want to use it" haha
 
Yeah it was a bad time in the company. It was NOT easy, people acted like we kicked their puppy. We made the product far more shelf stable, drastically reduced flavoring and added the electrolytes. We stayed with it and luckily it worked out very well. We made a lot of changes at the time of the "new" version back in 2011 that I'm incredibly thankful we made.
 
Have not used Xtend much but I always remember flavoring of the watermelon being on point
 
Thread got derailed, called out for being derailed, got de-railed even further, now it's an Xtend thread. Hahah not hating though, these are how forum discussions are: fluid and ever-changing.
 
1Fast400 said:
Yeah it was a bad time in the company. It was NOT easy, people acted like we kicked their puppy. We made the product far more shelf stable, drastically reduced flavoring and added the electrolytes. We stayed with it and luckily it worked out very well. We made a lot of changes at the time of the "new" version back in 2011 that I'm incredibly thankful we made.
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You guys invented intra supplementation
So once you guys tweaked it everyone freaked lol
 
1Fast400 said:
I have zero expectation of companies putting money into research. It takes a minimum of 18-24 months to get a paper published. They will do what most companies are doing now. Aim to have products cost under 6 dollars to manufacture, attempt to sell them online for 30 bucks, then constantly whore them out on deals constantly to make consumers think they are getting a deal. The majority of supplement companies are nothing but marketing companies.

One company is being hit with multiple lawsuits on unfair business practices and has doubled down on the very thing they are being sued for.
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Questionable statement unless the manuscript was denied at a few journals because it needed severe revisions.
 
From time of saying, I have an idea for a study, to it being accepted for publication is 18-24 months. Not the paper only aspect.
 
1Fast400 said:
Yeah it was a bad time in the company. It was NOT easy, people acted like we kicked their puppy. We made the product far more shelf stable, drastically reduced flavoring and added the electrolytes. We stayed with it and luckily it worked out very well. We made a lot of changes at the time of the "new" version back in 2011 that I'm incredibly thankful we made.
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Speaking of Xtend, looking forward to trying The FREE series out.
one of your reps was nice enough to shoot me a care package.
Invalid Link Removed
 
1Fast400 said:
I have zero expectation of companies putting money into research. It takes a minimum of 18-24 months to get a paper published. They will do what most companies are doing now. Aim to have products cost under 6 dollars to manufacture, attempt to sell them online for 30 bucks, then constantly whore them out on deals constantly to make consumers think they are getting a deal. The majority of supplement companies are nothing but marketing companies.

One company is being hit with multiple lawsuits on unfair business practices and has doubled down on the very thing they are being sued for.
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unfortunately this guy knows how most companies work. non prop blend companies have help this issue a lot.
 
The free you can mix with a spoon, goes into solution pretty easily. The flavoring has a foaming issue if you shake it really hard. I'm going to make some adjustments to it. I wasn't totally happy with it, but we had a very large vendor who had to have it on a certain time frame. I'll make improvements over the year to it.
 
Ergonine Insider apparently coming within the next 2 weeks. Hyped for Iced Tea.
 
1Fast400 said:
The free you can mix with a spoon, goes into solution pretty easily. The flavoring has a foaming issue if you shake it really hard. I'm going to make some adjustments to it. I wasn't totally happy with it, but we had a very large vendor who had to have it on a certain time frame. I'll make improvements over the year to it.
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Good to hear
 
ANS to get into the protein game
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"ANS is promoting both low fat and sugar for the product, and a low total of just 100 calories. The brand has also thrown in a weight loss blend, made up of carnitine, MCT and green coffee bean. The one last detail we have is the overall size of Diablo Protein at 1.5lbs, which at guess would probably work out to around 25 servings.
"
 
machinehead said:
Intra MD EAA+ has sucralose though. They just copied the 'no artificial sweetener' part from Intra MD on their website.
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Good catch. Even on their own site they list it as no artificial sweeteners yet and it does list sucralose as an ingredient. Seems like some false advertising to me?
 
The Solution said:
Similar to like Intra-MD or intra-md EAA+.. no artificial sweeteners/sugars/colors
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Thanks for this! I've been looking hard for something similar to Intra-MD! I want this!!!
 
So ANS is Canadian from the last time I check, yet have never once seen them in any store up here. Anyone seen them up here? I've boughten ANS products before and were pleased with the outcome. Flavouring seems on point from what i've tasted. I thought it was funny at first seems like the only way to get them was through BB.com. (US). Buy Canadian from US lol.

Update: Just checked and the spinach man (popeyes)seems to carry ANS now FYI.
 
The Solution said:
Speaking of Xtend, looking forward to trying The FREE series out.
one of your reps was nice enough to shoot me a care package.
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LUCKY BASTARD!! :D
 
WAF said:
So ANS is Canadian from the last time I check, yet have never once seen them in any store up here. Anyone seen them up here? I've boughten ANS products before and were pleased with the outcome. Flavouring seems on point from what i've tasted. I thought it was funny at first seems like the only way to get them was through BB.com. (US). Buy Canadian from US lol.

Update: Just checked and the spinach man (popeyes)seems to carry ANS now FYI.
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Lol same issue here,
Though for a while we had reps around that could hook is up from TO I'm not sure anymore how best to order anymore.

Odd being in Canada and still ordering it internationally,
That being said I'm not spending money on a protein marketed as a weight loss aid as this one is. (Just personal preference, and probably going to be pricier per g protein)
 
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