The Need For Carbs : Shelby Starnes

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From his FB Page

If you want to make significant muscular gains from year to year, you’re going to have some carbohydrate in your diet. The catch-22 is that many of those reading this put on fat just reading the word “carb”.
So what do the prone-to-pudge do? Wallow in ketogenic despair, never to eat a carb again for fear that it will turn to adipose upon ingestion? Give up bodybuilding and pursue cake-baking?

Fortunately I’m very familiar with this situation as I come from a very endomorphic background myself, and have worked with literally hundreds of individuals with similar body types. Over the years I have learned a lot of different methods to keep fat gain under control in the offseason, without limiting gains in hypertrophy.
Carbs – manage them, don’t annihilate them

You definitely want insulin release in the offseason; it’s an extremely anabolic hormone, and also extremely anti-catabolic. Couple these properties and you have an awesome recipe for muscle gain. For most people though, keeping carbs sky-high day in and day out will also result in massive fat gain. It might be fun to see the scale moving up everyday, but when you look in the mirror a few months later don’t be surprised to see a sumo lifter looking back.
Consume too few carbs though, and you won’t optimize lean gains.For those with less-than-stellar insulin sensivity, carbohydrates must be used judicially. Here are a few of my favorite ways to set up a “carb-controlled” lean gain type diet. I would recommend experimenting with each to find your personal optimal setup.

*Note: These diet approaches assume that you are relatively lean to begin with (visible abs and a lean lower back). If you’re still on the softer side of things, prioritize fat loss first before using one of these approaches (modified versions of these methods are great ways to get there too, though). When you’re leaner you have better nutrient partitioning and are less likely to store extra calories as fat. You’ll always have the genetic hand y ou’re dealt (i.e. insulin sensitive or not, more endomorph than ectomorph, etc.) but you’ll set yourself up for much better success by getting lean first.

Method 1 – The Targeted Approach

Much like a TKD or “Targeted Ketogenic Diet”, this approach keeps carbs only around workouts (pre, during, and post). The rest of the day will be zero to trace carbs (from vegetables and nuts) and off days will typically be zero to trace as well. This diet keeps insulin very quiet at all times except around the workout.
For most, setting protein somewhere around 1.5-1.75 per pound of LBM and fat at about .5-.75g per pound of LBM is a good starting point. For the peri-workout nutrition, keep total carbs to around 1g per pound of LBM.
For an individual with 200 pounds of LBM this might look something like this:

Off days: 325g protein, 125g fat (2425 calories, not including incidentals)
Training days: 325g protein, 125g fat, 200g carbs (3225 calories, not including incidentals)

Remember though that these are just a baseline to work from. After a week or two on the diet you may find that you need more or less carbs (or more or less protein and fat) to make suitable progress. As with any diet approach, nothing is set in stone and you’ll need to experiment, monitor, and adjust as needed to keep things headed in the right direction.

Method 2 - The Modified Carb “Backloading” Approach

This approach works best for those who train in the afternoon or evening. It’s similar to the method above, but keeps carbs to just post workout and the hours following (typically for however many hours you’re awake after training). If you eat 3 meals after training, add carbs to all 3 meals. Starting values would be the same as with the approach above, but the carbs would be limited to only the post workout meals (rather than pre, during, as well as post). For example if you have 200 grams of carbs total for the day, you could add 65g each to the 3 meals following your workout.

The Modified Carb “Backloading” Approach allows for fat to be used as the primary fuel source up to and through the workout.
Method 3 – The “Moderate” Approach

With this approach you have protein, fat, and carbohydrate at almost all meal, the exception being postworkout where you omit fat, and the last meal of the day where you omit carbs. All other meals will include all 3 macronutrients – with an emphasis on protein and fat, and a low to moderate amount of carbohydrate. This may sound a bit counter-intuitive a bit at first, but by combining all three macros you get a much slower, steady release from the carbohydrate, thereby keeping insulin levels very controlled. Fat is omitted postworkout when you want faster digestion, and carbs are omitted in the last meal of the day because there is typically no need for an energy source then (unless you recently trained, in which case you would still keep carbs in that final meal).
Starting values for this approach would again be similar to above (1.5-1.75g protein per lb of LBM, .5-.75g fat per lb of LBM, and .75-1g carbohydrate per lb of LBM).

A male with 200 pounds of LBM eating 6 meals per day might have a setup something like this:
Meal 1: 55g protein, 25g fat, 30g carbs
Meal 2: 55g protein, 25g fat, 30g carbs
Meal 3: (POSTWORKOUT): 55g protein, 50g carbs
Meal 4: 55g protein, 25g fat, 30g carbs
Meal 5: 55g protein, 25g fat, 30g carbs
Meal 6: 55g protein, 25g fat
Again, this approach can be modified as needed (by adding more or less carbs) depending on your individual response and needs.

Food Choices
Stick to healthy whole food “bodybuilding foods” for these diet approaches, such as the following:

Proteins: Eggs, Lean Beef, Chicken Breast, Turkey Breast, Fish, High Quality Protein Powders like those at

Fats: Extra virgin olive oil, Macadamia nut oil, avocado, almond butter, fish oils, coconut oil, nuts

Carbs: Oats, rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, sprouted grain bread, fruit. For postworkout, a quickly digesting carbohydrate powder would be suitable.
The Need to Refeed

You might find that using one of these approaches leaves you feeling a bit depleted after a week or so. Rather than increasing carbs on a daily basis, what you might want to do is implement a weekly refeed of some sort – usually either a high carb day or a high carb meal, designed to fully replenish glycogen stores and give the metabolism a bit of a boost. Some elect to replace this weekly refeed with a cheat meal, which serves a similar purpose but also allows for any cravings to be quenched, and also serve as a social outlet. Be careful with refeeds though – utilized improperly they can be a great way to pack on fat. Use them judiciously and monitor whether they are having a positive or negative effect on your physique and training.

Bottom line: Carbs are not evil, but they are a double-edged sword. They can contribute greatly to anabolism (muscle-building) and anticatabolism (prevention of muscle breakdown) but they can also inhibit fat burning as well as store fat. Manage them properly with one of the approaches outlined above to make sure you’re maximizing their benefits and minimizing their detriments.
 

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Good read. Wondering how you guys cycle your carbs in the offseason/bulks?

Currently on dat there keto time, but will add carbs back in when I maintain for a bit after this cut before bulking. Haven't played around with carb cycling much
 
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Good read. Wondering how you guys cycle your carbs in the offseason/bulks?

Currently on dat there keto time, but will add carbs back in when I maintain for a bit after this cut before bulking. Haven't played around with carb cycling much
Do it exactly as above if you are keto now.
Move to a TKD (Timed keto) around peri-workout and post-workout. Then slowly add to other meals as needed when you stall.

How i approach my carbs in the offseason.
Right away I added back 300-500 kcals right after my show, and since then have only really upped my kcals a few times and I am now 20+ pounds over stage weight. You want to really take advantage of the metabolic swing coming out of the deficit. When you are lean as Shelby states you metabolize calories more efficiently in a leaner state.

Depending on what I train is a major factor:

If I train first thing upon waking:
Meal 1 --> 30-50g of carbs, rest of meals P+F and last meal is a carb heavy meal (to fuel for morning training)

Train in afternoon:
P+F Meals
P+C based pre-workout meal (something small and easy to digest) rice cakes are a good choice for me.. Sludge and cereal etc...
Post-workout another P+C Based meal
Then P+F Based meals

If i train late at night --> P+F Meals all day, then just shift the carbs to pre/post workout.

I will consume around 50g of carbs peri-workout from HBCD (high branch cyclin dextrins). You could add this right away when you come off your keto diet to really help with optimizing your training.
 
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good read, well put and easily understandable....theres been some backlash for carbs recently but I find limiting carbs to be the easiest way to decrease calories and shed some fat, not to mention I feel so much better on a high fat lower carb diet

I workout in the pm and tend to keep my carbs low throughout the day and have carbs in my postworkout meal
 

ECWHY

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Do it exactly as above if you are keto now.
Move to a TKD (Timed keto) around peri-workout and post-workout. Then slowly add to other meals as needed when you stall.

How i approach my carbs in the offseason.
Right away I added back 300-500 kcals right after my show, and since then have only really upped my kcals a few times and I am now 20+ pounds over stage weight. You want to really take advantage of the metabolic swing coming out of the deficit. When you are lean as Shelby states you metabolize calories more efficiently in a leaner state.

Depending on what I train is a major factor:

If I train first thing upon waking:
Meal 1 --> 30-50g of carbs, rest of meals P+F and last meal is a carb heavy meal (to fuel for morning training)

Train in afternoon:
P+F Meals
P+C based pre-workout meal (something small and easy to digest) rice cakes are a good choice for me.. Sludge and cereal etc...
Post-workout another P+C Based meal
Then P+F Based meals

If i train late at night --> P+F Meals all day, then just shift the carbs to pre/post workout.

I will consume around 50g of carbs peri-workout from HBCD (high branch cyclin dextrins). You could add this right away when you come off your keto diet to really help with optimizing your training.
I might try TKD in a week or two depending on my progress. I've been sitting around 160lbs for a while so that might help break through the stall. I'm leaning out but haven't really felt my workouts suffering a ton so I might be more or less getting to the fat adapted state. I've had some **** workouts in the past, but seems to be improving.

I think I will look into targetted keto if I do stay around 160, but I think I have leaned out a bit but recently got on creatine and might just be a bit heavier from extra water. I 100% plan to use a carb diet after this cut though, and will cycle carbs since that seems like the most effective way to lean bulk
 
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I might try TKD in a week or two depending on my progress. I've been sitting around 160lbs for a while so that might help break through the stall. I'm leaning out but haven't really felt my workouts suffering a ton so I might be more or less getting to the fat adapted state. I've had some **** workouts in the past, but seems to be improving.

I think I will look into targetted keto if I do stay around 160, but I think I have leaned out a bit but recently got on creatine and might just be a bit heavier from extra water. I 100% plan to use a carb diet after this cut though, and will cycle carbs since that seems like the most effective way to lean bulk
You should never go off creatine. There is no need to cycle , load, or discontinue use. We find it in our foods (Fish and Meat).
Plus creatine is stored intra-cellular, not extra-cellular. It pulls water inside the cells not out the outside to give you a watery/bloated look (which people think is the case but it is not).
 

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You should never go off creatine. There is no need to cycle , load, or discontinue use. We find it in our foods (Fish and Meat).
Plus creatine is stored intra-cellular, not extra-cellular. It pulls water inside the cells not out the outside to give you a watery/bloated look (which people think is the case but it is not).
I agree. I took a break from lifting which is why I wasn't on it. I definitely plan to stay on it forever now.

I don't think I am getting bloated from it, but it would make sense that my weight would increase from creatine if I were eating at maintenance or my weight would go down slower if I was in a deficit because I retain more water, correct?

I do IF currently + keto, so the pre WO carbs wouldn't really help unless I stopped training fasted (on BCAAs). Also, my PWO (mesomorph) says to take it on an empty stomach so that is around 2 hrs after eating as well. If I quit training fasted (would have to change my schedule around), how long before a WO would you recommend carbs? I also plan to take Mesomorph for my heavier days which is supposed to be taken on an empty stomach so that could also interfere with the pre WO carbs
 
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Eat a pre workout meal 60-90 minutes prior to training then take your pre 10-20 minutes prior to training

About 90% of trainees if not more train fed and follow an ideal schedule for dosing per workouts

IF has no magical benefits besides personal preference you don't have to fast if you don't want to do what suits you and your schedule best

Creatine is not to blame on weight gain if you increased calories that would be from dietary changes. If you decreased calories while on creatine or not putting yourself into a deficit is why you are losing

Mesomorph won't interfere with pre intra or post workout carbs

Eat before a workout ... allow time for optimal
Digestion ... take your pre before lifting and rinse/repeat
 

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Eat a pre workout meal 60-90 minutes prior to training then take your pre 10-20 minutes prior to training

About 90% of trainees if not more train fed and follow an ideal schedule for dosing per workouts

IF has no magical benefits besides personal preference you don't have to fast if you don't want to do what suits you and your schedule best

Creatine is not to blame on weight gain if you increased calories that would be from dietary changes. If you decreased calories while on creatine or not putting yourself into a deficit is why you are losing

Mesomorph won't interfere with pre intra or post workout carbs

Eat before a workout ... allow time for optimal
Digestion ... take your pre before lifting and rinse/repeat
A lot of people recommend taking mesomorph about 45min-1hr before training to get to peak mode. A lot of reviews of people who take it earlier say that they finish their workout, and the DMAA hits and they just keep lifting haha.

I currently do IF because it helps fit my EC doses around food also giving it a try since a lot of people have noticed benefits from it.

Also, if I do continue to train fasted, meso apparently hits a lot harder on an empty stomach. So might just do BCAA + Meso and keep training fasted. Again, considering doing TKD depending on how straight keto goes for another week or two. I'd have to do a bit more research on it though.
 
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What you read from other people is not you
Sure for some it may take 45 minutes , some they may only need 10 minutes for it to kick in

Comparing yourself to others or rating how a product works will vary big time from person to person

Your perfectly fine eating and still taking meso
Again IF is just an eating style . It has less benefits for muscle protein synthesis shifting all your food in a small window

It's all personal preference in the end but science will show you eating meals spaced out every 4-5 hours with at least 3G leucine is most optimal for muscle protein synthesis

You can do as you please just telling you that you don't have to be fasted to take a pre workout nor do you have to follow IF again to each their own

You know how many people don't do IF and take meso? Thousands and they still get great workouts and provide good feedback

Take notes , listen to your body and adjust to what suits you best my 2 cents is above take it for what it's worth
 

ECWHY

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What you read from other people is not you
Sure for some it may take 45 minutes , some they may only need 10 minutes for it to kick in

Comparing yourself to others or rating how a product works will vary big time from person to person

Your perfectly fine eating and still taking meso
Again IF is just an eating style . It has less benefits for muscle protein synthesis shifting all your food in a small window

It's all personal preference in the end but science will show you eating meals spaced out every 4-5 hours with at least 3G leucine is most optimal for muscle protein synthesis

You can do as you please just telling you that you don't have to be fasted to take a pre workout nor do you have to follow IF again to each their own

You know how many people don't do IF and take meso? Thousands and they still get great workouts and provide good feedback

Take notes , listen to your body and adjust to what suits you best my 2 cents is above take it for what it's worth
Appreciate all of that information.

I currently am testing a couple things out. I will see this weekend how I felt the past 2 wks of IF have treated me. Currently it is pretty good for taking my EC fasted, and my schedule. I will also look into how much I weigh this saturday and see if I feel like I might want to do TKD to finish up this cut. I cheated/refed 3 wks ago this Friday, but my energy hasn't been horrible tbh. I haven't been able to break 160lbs though so something might have to change.

Again, thanks for the info. I know that lifting/dieting/supplements are a learning process. I am going to have some more free time this weekend to sit down and analyze my cut progress.
 
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Again, thanks for the info. I know that lifting/dieting/supplements are a learning process. I am going to have some more free time this weekend to sit down and analyze my cut progress.
No problem man. Ever need to swing any questions just let me know. We are ALWAYS Learning our bodies. I have done 3 contest preps and each time my peak week was totally different and my diet was altered greatly
 

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No problem man. Ever need to swing any questions just let me know. We are ALWAYS Learning our bodies. I have done 3 contest preps and each time my peak week was totally different and my diet was altered greatly
One of the great things about AM.com, everyone is so damn helpful. It's awesome.

I will definitely let you know how I weigh in saturday. I think I will take a good chunk of my saturday and look into how I want to move forward in this cut. Gotta see how the standard keto treats me in terms of strength.

I think that carb cycling, even if I finish this cut 100% on keto, will be crucial to learn when I move to maintaining for a bit to let my metabolism adjust. I will also carb cycle on my lean bulk since again, it seems like a very efficient way to go about it.

I like keto right now because I tend to stay full longer, and it is harder to overeat. Plus, I haven't really had any problems with it since I watch my electrolytes and have kind of stuck to eating the same thing every day more or less to know that I am hitting my macros.
 
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People feel "Fuller" on keto due to the higher fat intake which aids in saitety.
You won't overeat if you carb cycle because you do the same thing you do on keto.
Track your calories, hit your calories, and rinse/repeat. Log what you need to eat on MFP or whatever you use.. Meet it.. stop eating, and do it again the next day.

Pretty straight forward. Even if you do carb cycling if you eat mostly P+F Meals and save the carbs for right around your workout you will still feel the satiety from a lot of high fat meals and giving the body carbs/glucose when it needs it most.
 

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People feel "Fuller" on keto due to the higher fat intake which aids in saitety.
You won't overeat if you carb cycle because you do the same thing you do on keto.
Track your calories, hit your calories, and rinse/repeat. Log what you need to eat on MFP or whatever you use.. Meet it.. stop eating, and do it again the next day.

Pretty straight forward. Even if you do carb cycling if you eat mostly P+F Meals and save the carbs for right around your workout you will still feel the satiety from a lot of high fat meals and giving the body carbs/glucose when it needs it most.
You are really ****ing convincing haha. I think carb cycling isn't necessary for people who are just on keto to lose weight (non lifters), but the more I think about it, it seems pretty useful for athletes and lifters (non endurance mainly).

I will have more time to think about how I want to incorporate cycling this weekend, but now I should really start studying for my midterm tmrw
 

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