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the napalm detroit barbell experience...

Looking forward to cleaning up. I have been reeling in the carbs. For whatever reason, after months of abuse, my body has been getting more sensitive to the carbs.
 
deadlift

warmup
roll/stretch/mash w stick/rumble roller
about a million rdl/sldl with the bar
stretched the hell out of my achilles
135x2x5
185x2x5
225x5

work
275x2x3
315x3
335x3
345x1
360x1
380x1

assistance
snatch grip dead lift (w straps)
245x5x3
pendlay's
150x4x5

thoughts
got some decent work in, should be the last day by myself. tomorrow will be some more back with one of clay's crew, then bench friday and squat/deadlift sunday. i gotta start sticking to the template, 2 weeks in a row i ignored it and went 30 lbs heavier. that will not be sustainable so time to pump the brakes a little.
 
napalm said:
the snatch grips do because you gotta get lower, i'm constantly stretching my achilles/ankles. i'm liking the snatch grips...
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Tis become favorite. Use the trap bar too. Convo, then snatch then trap bar? Oh lawd
 
smoker145 said:
Why not?
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Wasting valuable recovery resources on an exercise that does not carry over nearly as well as you think to the deadlift. It takes most of the hip and back out of the movement and makes it all legs. You're already doing squats, trap bar is highly unnecessary for a powerlifter.

For an athlete, I would say it applies. For a strongman, I would say it applies. But in powerlifting, that's a no.

Google "Special Strength Bondarchuck" or "Special Strength Verkhoshansky" or "Special Strength Juggernaut" or "Transfer of Training" and get a little acquainted with some of the principles and terminology. It will be a huge boon to your future programming.

For instance, while I make fun of you (and always will) for doing shrugs, they're not terrible in terms of transfer of training. They do work muscles that you need in the squat, bench, and deadlift, provided you do them correctly. So that's a good thing However, they do not work them in the same manner. Shrugs are an elevation and retraction exercise. Your big 3 trap involvement is isometric depression and retraction. Do you see the difference?
 
herderdude said:
Wasting valuable recovery resources on an exercise that does not carry over nearly as well as you think to the deadlift. It takes most of the hip and back out of the movement and makes it all legs. You're already doing squats, trap bar is highly unnecessary for a powerlifter.

For an athlete, I would say it applies. For a strongman, I would say it applies. But in powerlifting, that's a no.

Google "Special Strength Bondarchuck" or "Special Strength Verkhoshansky" or "Special Strength Juggernaut" or "Transfer of Training" and get a little acquainted with some of the principles and terminology. It will be a huge boon to your future programming.

For instance, while I make fun of you (and always will) for doing shrugs, they're not terrible in terms of transfer of training. They do work muscles that you need in the squat, bench, and deadlift, provided you do them correctly. So that's a good thing However, they do not work them in the same manner. Shrugs are an elevation and retraction exercise. Your big 3 trap involvement is isometric depression and retraction. Do you see the difference?
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I agree with all of this.
 
iparatroop said:
If you were an oly lifter this would be more appropriate for the effects of carryover, IMO.
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I would agree with you except for one thing. It will mimic the competition movement to a degree, but things like where to get tight and apply the maximum force, and how to move the weight above your knees would change. I forget the special strength exercise terminology, but it would fall higher on the priority list than the shrug, but lower than the clean itself. But that's pretty subtle and deadlifts would certainly have a high degree of transfer of training, depending on the strength and skill of the athlete.

This is the whole premise of transfer of training. If your 1RM deadlift is less than, say, 500, (which is a bullshït number so we're clear) then getting stronger on deadlifts WILL improve your clean. Once you get to a certain level of strength on the deadlift, though, you will have milked the carryover benefits that heavy deadlifting will provide your clean.

This is what is so interesting about this to me. If you're a crossfitter, how strong do you need to be to be ready to compete? Which exercises beside the benchmarks will help you get where you need to go? Same goes with strength sports, team sports, any athletic endeavor. Find the carryover and work it until it's time to move on. I think in strength sports there are fewer benchmark special strength exercises, because most of them can progress indefinitely.

That said, everything I just mentioned was really nitpicky.
 
herderdude said:
I would agree with you except for one thing. It will mimic the competition movement to a degree, but things like where to get tight and apply the maximum force, and how to move the weight above your knees would change. I forget the special strength exercise terminology, but it would fall higher on the priority list than the shrug, but lower than the clean itself. But that's pretty subtle and deadlifts would certainly have a high degree of transfer of training, depending on the strength and skill of the athlete.

This is the whole premise of transfer of training. If your 1RM deadlift is less than, say, 500, (which is a bullshït number so we're clear) then getting stronger on deadlifts WILL improve your clean. Once you get to a certain level of strength on the deadlift, though, you will have milked the carryover benefits that heavy deadlifting will provide your clean.

That said, everything I just mentioned was really nitpicky.
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I think he is specifically talking about the shrugs.
 
jimbuick said:
I think he is specifically talking about the shrugs.
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Hm. If so, then I'm not really sure what that's referring to. Don't kill my buzz, man, I was on a roll!
 
herderdude said:
Hm. If so, then I'm not really sure what that's referring to. Don't kill my buzz, man, I was on a roll!
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The shrug as it would carryover to the shrugging portion of a clean (or snatch) which should be done at the same time as the full triple extension, just before dropping under the weight.
 
jimbuick said:
The shrug as it would carryover to the shrugging portion of a clean (or snatch) which should be done at the same time as the full triple extension, just before dropping under the weight.
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Ohhhh right right. Now I'm getting it. I went off on a deadlift tangent because I was about to say O-lifters don't need to do deadlifts before I caught myself with my pants down halfway through. After typing all that up, I was a little too proud of my baby to give her up.
 
herderdude said:
Ohhhh right right. Now I'm getting it. I went off on a deadlift tangent because I was about to say O-lifters don't need to do deadlifts before I caught myself with my pants down halfway through. After typing all that up, I was a little too proud of my baby to give her up.
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I can relate.
 
Rodja said:
No. You train the lift like you perform it on the platform.
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What do you mean? I'm talking after deaslifts.. For me it's convo and then snatch and then I shruggymodo all day


Edit: did it again, I mean snatch grip...
 
smoker145 said:
What do you mean? I'm talking after deaslifts.. For me it's convo and then snatch and then I shruggymodo all day Edit: did it again, I mean snatch grip...
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I misunderstood. It sounded like you were saying shrug at the top of the deadlift.
 
Just so I'm on record; fûck shrugs. If you're deadlifting like you're supposed to, your traps will be the envy of flat shouldered, skinny-necked geeks everywhere.

Poor training economy, IMHO.
 
Swanson52 said:
Just so I'm on record; fûck shrugs. If you're deadlifting like you're supposed to, your traps will be the envy of flat shouldered, skinny-necked geeks everywhere. Poor training economy, IMHO.
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Bobba fett ?
 
Swanson52 said:
Just so I'm on record; fûck shrugs. If you're deadlifting like you're supposed to, your traps will be the envy of flat shouldered, skinny-necked geeks everywhere.

Poor training economy, IMHO.
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YES!!! =p
 
shrugs are ghey, there's just so many better movements. so let's be done w it.

back - worked in w big clay's friday bench crew

rack pulls just above the knee for me - had no idea what i would do so i just went w it
135x2x5
245x2x5
335x5
425x5
515x5x3 - we thought 515 was a good place for me to do triples, i prolly had another 2 more plates in me, but this is a good place to start. the big boys worked up to 915 x 2 :shock:

assistance - those guys did chest supported rows and i went and did pendlay's 185x4x3

thoughts
that was fun, it was cool having 515 in my hands. next time clay wants me to stand on a couple rubber mats because i'm short. those guys threw the 100 lb plates on in a hurry, i didn't know how long i was going to be able to hang, but i just kept doing triples.by the time those guys were done there was no more room on the bar. was talking to big clay about back and he swears by heavy rack pulls and lots of different bb and t-bar rows. interesting.

tomorrow off, friday bench, then everyone tears down the gym for the meet saturday...
 
napalm said:
i saw we have a pr of farmers handles. i'm gonna try them...
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How do you think that's gonna be on your achilles? I'm sure eventually it'll be freakin awesome for it, but what about right now?
 
herderdude said:
How do you think that's gonna be on your achilles? I'm sure eventually it'll be freakin awesome for it, but what about right now?
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I can't imagine it being worse than a regular squat or deadlift.


Less ROM than a pull from the floor, and less than a full squat as well. (this is just for picking it up and holding it, or doing farmers deadlifts)
 
snatch grips, then rack pulls and pendlays on consecutive days = upper back death.

that is all...
 
So are rack pulls really that beneficial to upper back I did them a few times didn't really notice anything maybe I just wasnt implementing it properly.
 
Duramaxhd said:
So are rack pulls really that beneficial to upper back I did them a few times didn't really notice anything maybe I just wasnt implementing it properly.
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I think just because the lifter can typically go much heavier than a floor pull, they allow you to really hammer the upper back with just the last 2/3-1/2 the movement.

Don't have to worry about getting the weight to your knees, just knees to lockout.
 
bench

got there at 4:20 and those guys were already in the 400's, so i had to wait until a bench was open and worked by myself. rushed my warmups, didn't do everything i wanted to.

work
215x6x3

assistance
vbar pushdowns 5x10 w 70
facepulls 5x10 w 60

then i just watched the big boys until they were finished, then tore down the gym for the meet tomorrow.

thoughts

i dunno if it was because i rushed my warmups, but every stinking rep felt like ass today. from the first w 135 to the last work set, everything was off. felt a little twinge on the left, hopefully it's nothing. mashed it good w a tennis ball when i was done.

meh...
 
Could be that you had a set plan and it got delayed. Happens to me sometimes...or maybe just "one of those days." **** happens my friend. Good idea on mashing it out and staying on top of things.
 
rob112 said:
Could be that you had a set plan and it got delayed. Happens to me sometimes...or maybe just "one of those days." **** happens my friend. Good idea on mashing it out and staying on top of things.
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i think it was the opposite big shot, i'm in the uncomfortable position of not knowing what these guys were gonna do other than it was heavy day. tim and eric - both benching in the arnold in 6 weeks are prolly the two best benchers at db. both well over 700 at 198. they were doing banded doubles w 660 today. eric won the arnold a couple years ago clay said. don't know his last name but i think he's hawaiian.

so i'm still trying to figure out where i fit in. i didn't want to slow those guys down so i didn't even ask to work in w them. def gotta start getting there at 4 on fridays...
 
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