The Bible Study Thread

[Whiskey Steve]

I am not one of those who condem texts that are not commonly accepted, if there is any truth or value in something i will acknowledge it. You have put a great desire in me to study the Torah, Dead Sea Scrolls, etc...

 

[BigVrunga]

Parzival,

Is anyone able to read what's in the Dead Sea Scrolls , and the Nag Hammadi texts you mentioned? Are they sensored by the church? Id be interested to know what they contain.

BV

 

[Whiskey Steve]

poopypants, you still have a link to that anti site in a post of yours where you were quoting TCO....just thought id bring it to your attention because you were very concerned about getting that link off of here

 

[Parzival]

Parzival, I noticed you have read the book "The Tree of Life",,, i believe my father has read it. What are your thoughts on partaking of the Tree of Life in this lifetime, and of course then you i guess the way to put it is "come off" the Tree of Knowledge of Good Evil.

Good question, I would refer you to a passage in Proverbs (attributed to King Solomon): "She is more precious than pearls; and all the things you value are not equal unto her. Length of days are in her right hand; in her left are riches and honor. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. A Tree of Life is she to those that lay hold of her; and every one that firmly grasps her will be made happy." He refers to the Qabalah, (not Kabbalah like Hollywood follows this is a corruption, the Hebrew root QBL means 'to recieve')which is at the heart of the Western mystery tradition and whose tenets are based on a comprehensive "map" for understanding man's relation to the Universe called The Tree of Life. I won't go into any more detail about it here but this makes up a huge part of this underground stream of wisdom in the Old Testament. I think the serpent presents us with a knowledge that is diametrically opposed to that of the Tree of Life. He offers to make us 'like gods' which I could describe as increasing our consciousness horizontally like the way modern science does, without raising our consciousness vertically the way God does. Hence in our time we have an abundance of technology, but lack the spiritual wisdom and discernment to use it for anything other than to develop a knder gentler machine gun hand.

 

[Parzival]

Parzival,

Is anyone able to read what's in the Dead Sea Scrolls , and the Nag Hammadi texts you mentioned? Are they sensored by the church? Id be interested to know what they contain.

BV

Yes absolutely, here are two pretty good links to each of those.

Dead Sea Scrolls: Invalid Link Removed

Nag Hammadi texts:
Invalid Link Removed

I would give a word of caution though due to the fact that these texts(especially NH) contain certain things which go against the teachings of orthodox Christianity(especially Catholicism). I would discourage all but those with an exteremely open mind from reading either of them as they may disturb your current worldview rather severely. In other words they may jostle your faith around some. An especially magnificent work is the Gospel of Thomas, while some others are a bit complex or far fetched and seem to me difficult to grasp at their fundamental mode of expression. I am not an expert but I will try to answer questions to my best abilities so feel free to ask away or shoot me a pm. Peace.

 

[Parzival]

And yes I'm somewhat of an insomniac,lol.:yawn: :type:

 

[EEmain]

That right there is enigmatic to say the least I have begun recently to learn the Hebrew language as I feel it holds the key to understanding prophetic books like Daniel and Ezekiel. I think the structure and style of English is not suited to translation from Hebrew, nor the Greek of the Septaguint for that matter. There seems to be something here in this verse that is very obscure that may come to light with reading the original Hebrew text. What do these words mean to you?

Not only is that term used there but also in other writtings of the time.

iirc The Book of Enoch is one. It is a term used to define the messianic tradition of the time.


This however is the jumping off point for me. My faith does not depend on such mysteries being solved.

Om Mani Padme Hum...

 

[EEmain]

I was just getting people to consider the validity of the site. Im sure there are sites with perfect truth but there all also sites that are a totally false(as i am sure that link was)

Brothers; say no more on this but carry on where me and Parzival are

Simply plant the seed and allow the ONE who provides the sun and rain to bring it to fruition.

If it is Gnosis we seek fine. However it is very easy to see what we want to see rather than what is there.

 

[B5150]

i think the fact is we both had an aweful experience with addiction, to whatever degree it may be but i just didnt think what i experienced should be made light of when it was far from it.

I mean this respectfully when I say it so don't misunderstand me...

...this is a story of what the healing power of God can do. No rehab could do it for me, no self help group could do it for me, no other power than the power of God...who saved a wrech like me...I once was blind and now I see.

This of course make no ones testimony any less meaningful or truely God at work in their lives.

its become far too off track for me here and i feel i have been personally attacked many times so thank for those that have shared without judgments or ignorance of others.

yes it has become way off track. The original title of the thread was "Bible' study. Yes there is some very good literature that explores some of the truths of the bible. But there is also a lot of literature that explores and specualtes on the slant of their particular doctrines. Some stuff that I have seen posted here is going way off on the end of doctrinal speculation.

So I will politely, one more time, invite you to share your testimonies and witness. I will also invite you to quote specific Bible (aka: *New/Old Testiment*) scripture that is relative to promises that may have seen fulfilled by God in your lives or when acts of obedience to God's commands may have proven to be fruitful in your lives.

*translations create enough doctrinal issues.*

 

[motiv8er]

Happy Saturday

hey guys,
Its saturday and I am in the office so I don't have much time. A topic that I would find most valuable is this: God up above has held and loved me when I wasn't loving myself. God up above showe dme love so that I could show my Dad, my father love. It was partly due to my non-relationship with my Father taht I chose the destructive paths in my life that I have. And mostly my part for chosing those paths. Everytime I acted in lack of love for myself or acted against my Dad. God would bring me back. Bring me back to him and allow me to choose a better path. I believed, because I believed I saw the path he needed me to take. And everytime I get so off track in the trenches, he shows me a path. And they all have taken me closer to him. And by me finding his love more and more, I have been able to love my father. And forgive him, and not need to so self-destructive. Its like my fathers love showed me how to love my father. And in return that showed me how to love myself. This is just my 10 cents. This is only my interpretation of things. But I am so much closer to whole through these events. I am alive and loving myself and the world. And so thankful I didn't end up losing my life or taking lives along the way. IMO The path our Father wants us to take isn't always the one we want, but what we can do after the experience is what makes us worth something to some one else. So the love can continue...

 

[16vt]

I have a question of sorts for christians. This is obviously another subject but I feel for "Bible Study" thread it's appropriate. In Genesis chapter 1, it states:

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [Invalid Link Removed] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

What happened to this? Why did it change from living on earth to now living in heaven as most christians believe?

If God's original purpose was for his creations to live on earth, I assume indefenitely, than why did he change his will? If he did, please provide scriptures if possible.

It's something I have always thought off, and asked people of faith, but their answer were not concrete enough or scripturely backed.

Thanks!

 

[B5150]

What happened to this? Why did it change from living on earth to now living in heaven as most christians believe?

It changed? Not sure I get what you are getting at.

 

[B5150]

If God's original purpose was for his creations to live on earth, I assume indefenitely, than why did he change his will? If he did, please provide scriptures if possible.

It's something I have always thought off, and asked people of faith, but their answer were not concrete enough or scripturely backed.

Thanks!

Where are you getting this information?

The scripture you refer to make no reference to anything other than He created man in His own image and placed him on erath to rule over it and all the creature of the sea, sky and land...no?

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."​

 

[EEmain]

The Agony:
I was on retreat and meditating in a grotto that held the statue that depicts this. At the time there were many changes going on im my life. E-motional confusion. Sitting on a bench in front of this statue I began to open up and cry. Not a boo hoo type of cry. But one that came from deep inside me. Like something that was blocked opened up. After this release
it came to me... Even though I was sober and had gotten baptised I had managed to let self will block me from the peace I so desired.
So much time had been spent on controling others... that they got the message exactly as I understood it, that the group run as I saw fit, There wasn`t any work being done on myself. Resentment because I couldn`t make things work the way I saw fit had blocked me from the light.

"Father thy will not mine be done."

That is a lot to ask of me. Most of my life was as the Bigbook(AA) says " A prime example of self will run riot." From then on it became a theme of my life to not only say the Serenity prayer but to live it.


[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.



Amen.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=-1]--Reinhold Niebuhr[/SIZE][/FONT]



​

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Concerning texts not included in the current canon:

It seems that many today operate under the notion that man can in any way subvert the will of God. If God has inspired man to write certain books of the Bible and desires for those and only those books to be included in his preserved canon, there is nothing man can do to subvert this.
God promised to preserve His Word forever.

Psalms
12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

So if a book is not in the Bible that God promised to preserve forever, then it is obviously not His Word. They may make for interesting reading but are of little value otherwise.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

The specific Spirits i am talking about are our brothers and sisters who chose Lucifers plan and were cast out of Heaven before any of us came to earth. (actually they were sent here, but they do not have bodies....their spirits are dwelling on earth)

and i was the one mentioning mental pain,,, you were mentioning the physical aspect of it

Those that the Bible mentions falling with Lucifer (whose true name is Helel) are not our brothers or sisters. They are angels, just as he is.
And Satan fell after Adam and Eve were created.

Genesis
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

A ruined legion of angels would not be called "very good" by our LORD.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Simply plant the seed and allow the ONE who provides the sun and rain to bring it to fruition.

If it is Gnosis we seek fine. However it is very easy to see what we want to see rather than what is there.

Im not sure what you just said but I am pretty sure you were bashing my Religion and calling me a fool.
Look, the false stories about mormonism are constantly being invented proclaimed as truth. You can choose to read them along with your grocery store check out line magazines if you want. Do you want us to discuss such childish tales on this thread. Should we change gears and talk about bat boy and bush having alien slaves.......no. Drop It!!!!

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Lucifer(satan, Helel,ect.) is our brother. So were his followers; if they were not can you explain why they were even in heaven with us. And yes they were angels and so were we if you mean "angels" in the aspect that we did not yet have a body.
(no attack, lets all share our thoughts like gentlemen)

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Another concept I have given some thought to is the Nature/Importance of Satan.

I believe Satan was not tricked but is infact playing a role. There is need for opposition in all things and he is just there to balance things out. He has never gained a body so he does not have the vail; I do not believe it is possible to trick someone who has a perfect knowledge(no vail)

(I brought this up for discussion because thats what this thread is about. Please consider this concept and if you have some insite please share it. Do not attack me.)

 

[TheCrownedOne]

No one is attacking you, Steve, no one.
First, to assert anything as truth one must be able to support it via an infallible medium, a source of Absolute Truth. The Bible is the Foundation of Knowledge, the Cornerstone of Truth. The opinions of fallible man mean absolutely nothing in the light of God's Word. So then I ask, where in the Holy Bible does it say that:
1. Satan is our brother.
2. [EDIT]
3. We have ever been in heaven.
4. Angels have no body.

Again, I am not attacking you or anyone else, but if anyone dare attempt to assert their opinions or the opinions of other men as Truth then they must be held accountable to back them up with the Absolute Truth of God's Word.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

I still feel I am under attack. I have expressed almost everything here as my opinion and if I have not made that clear in all my posts then I sincerely apologize.

I will search for scriptures that say he is or several that will lead us to that conclusion. While I am doing this will you please search for scriptures that tell us he is not.(i do not mean this in an offensive way)

Dont take me so seriously. And the only reason I am posting the things that I am is because I wish to recieve feedback from very wise men(such as yourself, no joke). This is a place where I can ask questions and bring up concepts for discussion. Can you please be a little more kind in your responses. If not I'll probably just leave. I really wish to stay though because I am pretty much the only one asking questions and i feel members can learn a lot from the responses being given by members such as yourself.


back in a half hour......

 

[EEmain]

Im not sure what you just said but I am pretty sure you were bashing my Religion and calling me a fool.
Look, the false stories about mormonism are constantly being invented proclaimed as truth. You can choose to read them along with your grocery store check out line magazines if you want. Do you want us to discuss such childish tales on this thread. Should we change gears and talk about bat boy and bush having alien slaves.......no. Drop It!!!!

I don`t bash were faith comes in... football however is a different story.:icon_lol:

Gnosis as I used it : a matter of self acquaintance with the goal of enlightenment.

Gnosticism is where your heading with these posts(Mystical religions).

I am not judging you. Just stating the obvious that we can convince ourselves that anything we believe WE SEE is ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
Unless we allow our thoughts to be guided by a HIGHPOWER.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Fair enough, Steve. The most unfortunate shortcoming of this method of communication is, I feel, the lack of clearly discernable attitude in posts. I'll say again that I have no condescending character in my posts to you or anyone else, and I sincerely apologize again for any hurtful misinterpretation thereof.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

I don`t bash were faith comes in... football however is a different story.:icon_lol:

Gnosis as I used it : a matter of self acquaintance with the goal of enlightenment.

Gnosticism is where your heading with these posts(Mystical religions).

I am not judging you. Just stating the obvious that we can convince ourselves that anything we believe WE SEE is ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
Unless we allow our thoughts to be guided by a HIGHPOWER.

Where the confusion came in is i thought were were stating that that link was fact and that i was just refusing to believe it.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Concerning texts not included in the current canon:

It seems that many today operate under the notion that man can in any way subvert the will of God. If God has inspired man to write certain books of the Bible and desires for those and only those books to be included in his preserved canon, there is nothing man can do to subvert this.
God promised to preserve His Word forever.

Psalms
12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

So if a book is not in the Bible that God promised to preserve forever, then it is obviously not His Word. They may make for interesting reading but are of little value otherwise.

I too fear to challenge the Perfection of the Bible.....I dont mean Gods word, i mean the way it has been translated and perhaps had sections ommited and such.
Of coarse Gods word will last forever but does that mean that we have a perfect record of it on earth(maybe we do; or maybe we did).

Also how can you cast these other books out when some of them are historical accounts of Moses. But also with relation to what EEMain has been saying, they do lead us into mystical religions. I would love to learn things from these books to help my understanding of Christianity but i also fear i may be led off coarse/decieved. In Isiah somewhere it says "why do ye counsel with mystics from the east"(this is not an exact quote). It says this in a section advising us to stay away from the mystic religions to avoid being lead astray.

 

[B5150]

I still feel I am under attack. I have expressed almost everything here as my opinion and if I have not made that clear in all my posts then I sincerely apologize.

Dont take me so seriously. And the only reason I am posting the things that I am is because I wish to recieve feedback from very wise men(such as yourself, no joke). This is a place where I can ask questions and bring up concepts for discussion. Can you please be a little more kind in your responses. If not I'll probably just leave. I really wish to stay though because I am pretty much the only one asking questions and i feel members can learn a lot from the responses being given by members such as yourself.


back in a half hour......

Steve, I do take seriously the respect that you deserve and I am confindent that TCO is not trying to attack or be disrespectful. You need not leave. Please continue to be inquisitive. I enjoy the supportive truth's that it reveals.

I live in East Mesa Arizona. It is very rich in Mormon histroy and heritage. Though I am not Mormon, I have several aquaintances who are. I am curious to see if you or Stephen can provide Old/New Testiment reference to the asertion:

1. Satan is our brother.
2. We were his followers.
3. We have ever been in heaven.
4. Angels have no body.

I am sort of, for the lack of a better term (poor pun too) playing the devil's advocate. I am an engineer by trade and find data and specifications to be crucial in my field. In my faith scripture is as well.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Also for example it should be obvious that The King James version of the Bible is not perfect. What I mean is the Bible was not written in English and it is impossible to perfectly transfer words from one language to another.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Steve, I do take seriously the respect that you deserve and I am confindent that TCO is not trying to attack or be disrespectful. You need not leave. Please continue to be inquisitive. I enjoy the supportive truth's that it reveals.

I live in East Mesa Arizona. It is very rich in Mormon histroy and heritage. Though I am not Mormon, I have several aquaintances who are. I am curious to see if you or Stephen can provide Old/New Testiment reference to the asertion:I am sort of, for the lack of a better term (poor pun too) playing the devil's advocate. I am an engineer by trade and find data and specifications to be crucial in my field. In my faith scripture is as well.

Hold the phone,,,, I did not mean to type that we were his followers, that was a huge accident and ill fix that post as soon as i find it.

I am not sure if we were in heaven before this and I am not totally sure what generally accepted mormon doctoring says. But what I meant when I said Heaven was that we were in Gods presents. (i have made that error before in this thread)

And as I have stated before, I will continue to try to support my beliefs with the Bible only to play "fair" in this thread.(this IS completely reasonable)

EDIT: I did not say "we were satans followers"; the CrownedOne put words in my mouth.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

I cannot find the post where you say i unintentionally said "we were his followers".....can you tell me what #it was

EDIT: I did not say this....they put words in my mouth

 

[B5150]

Lucifer(satan, Helel,ect.) is our brother. So were his followers;

i'm guessing the asumption was that if we were his followers brothers we must have been his followers as well.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

i'm guessing the asumption was that if we were his followers brothers we must have be his followers as well.

Ohhhhhhh
Ya they missunderstood me. DO SAY WHAT YOU THINK I SAID IN QUOTE FROM. Give a unaltered quote and ask me to explain it.

 

[B5150]

Ohhhhhhh
Ya they missunderstood me. DO SAY WHAT YOU THINK I SAID IN QUOTE FROM. Give a unaltered quote and ask me to explain it.

I'm not sure what you are asking in the above. Here is what you said in post #268

Lucifer(satan, Helel,ect.) is our brother. So were his followers; if they were not can you explain why they were even in heaven with us. And yes they were angels and so were we if you mean "angels" in the aspect that we did not yet have a body.
(no attack, lets all share our thoughts like gentlemen)

 

[Whiskey Steve]

We were all angels in the aspect that we did not have bodies(or if you would prefer i will use that term non mortals),,,,Lucifer was/is our brother. Many of our brothers and sisters(1/3) chose Lucifers plan and became his followers.
This is my belief and i will attempt to back it with scripture....not the other way around as TCO accused me of.
I have to go ill be back in a bit

 

[EEmain]

I don`t fear to challenge the perfection of the Bible. GOD as I understand him would want nothing else.

It is a LEAP OF FAITH you take when you say the Bible is the literal word of GOD.

That my friend is where it gets very dangerous... FUNDAMENTALISM leads to fanatism and exclusion. And who did Jesus exclude?

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Christ cast objections at the Scribes and Pharisees who felt they were superior to everyone.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

I too fear to challenge the Perfection of the Bible.....I dont mean Gods word, i mean the way it has been translated and perhaps had sections ommited and such.

God has absolute power, and if He desires to have His Word preserved, there is no possible way man can subvert this, no matter what.

Of coarse Gods word will last forever but does that mean that we have a perfect record of it on earth(maybe we do; or maybe we did).

God promised to preserve His Word unto all generations forever. This means that today we have God's Word as He intended it.

Also how can you cast these other books out when some of them are historical accounts of Moses.

I'm only saying that they are man's word and not God's Word if they are not in the Bible as we have it today. I said they have little value otherwise, meaning they may give us insight into the past, but they should still be regarded as man's word and not inspired Scripture that didn't make the cut.

But also with relation to what EEMain has been saying, they do lead us into mystical religions. I would love to learn things from these books to help my understanding of Christianity but i also fear i may be led off coarse/decieved. In Isiah somewhere it says "why do ye counsel with mystics from the east"(this is not an exact quote). It says this in a section advising us to stay away from all of the mystic religions to avoid being lead astray.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Also for example it should be obvious that The King James version of the Bible is not perfect. What I mean is the Bible was not written in English and it is impossible to perfectly transfer words from one language to another.

God promised to preserve His Word. Nothing can prevent God - nothing. I believe that the King James Bible is the inspired, inerrant, preserved Word of the Living God to mankind in English. I cannot prove that because I'd have to have personal evidence from God Himself to prove this; it is a matter of faith that comes from having examined the various other "translations."
Because every "Bible" differs in some way or another, they cannot all be the preserved Word of God. Only one can be God's Word. I recommend the books by Douglas Stauffer: One Book Rightly Divided and One Book Stands Alone.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Steve, I do take seriously the respect that you deserve and I am confindent that TCO is not trying to attack or be disrespectful. You need not leave. Please continue to be inquisitive. I enjoy the supportive truth's that it reveals.

I live in East Mesa Arizona. It is very rich in Mormon histroy and heritage. Though I am not Mormon, I have several aquaintances who are. I am curious to see if you or Stephen can provide Old/New Testiment reference to the asertion:I am sort of, for the lack of a better term (poor pun too) playing the devil's advocate. I am an engineer by trade and find data and specifications to be crucial in my field. In my faith scripture is as well.

Oh, I certainly don't assert those points or believe them in any way, if that's what you're implying. But, I don't think you are I was asking that he explain his basis for those assertions that he was making.

 

[B5150]

Oh, I certainly don't assert those points or believe them in any way, if that's what you're implying. But, I don't think you are I was asking that he explain his basis for those assertions that he was making.

yes I was asking Steve, not Stephen to support them. But I also suggest that if you are able to support their unsubstantiality(word?), to do so as well.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

I don`t fear to challenge the perfection of the Bible. GOD as I understand him would want nothing else.

It is a LEAP OF FAITH you take when you say the Bible is the literal word of GOD.

That my friend is where it gets very dangerous... FUNDAMENTALISM leads to fanatism and exclusion. And who did Jesus exclude?

God would want us to question the validity of His Word? If the Bible is not available to us today in an inerrant translation, then God is a liar. But I say,

Romans
3:4b God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

If the Bible is not God's Word (making it absolutely perfect), then it is the fallible, nearly worthless word of man. The God of Israel, Yod Heh Vav Heh, keeps His promises.

 

[SOWarrior]

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way to destruction, and there are many who go by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Matt. 7:13-14

Narrow is the way, and few will find it brothers.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Not to drag us off topic, but, I'm interested in how everyone justifies a near obession with training (whether drug-free or not) with Christian values.

to me, it comes down to not letting my training goals interfere with my faith - even though I am obessed. perhaps this ill justification but I'm not training to get into fights or try and mess around with girls more often.

it seems a fine line and it's hard to walk sometimes - i guess it has more to do with motives.

sorry the message was disorganized, it's kinda hard to put it all together in 3minutes..

 

[EEmain]

Right, Jesus condemed the False Holy... those that used the people to their own ends. Unless they truely repent. Is what I see.

 

[EEmain]

Christ cast objections at the Scribes and Pharisees who felt they were superior to everyone.

Does this look familiar?


"Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not." "Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself." Baha'u'llah

"This is the sum of duty: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517

"Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Analects 15:23

"Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do." The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant, 109 - 110 Translated by R.B. Parkinson. The original dates to 1970 to 1640 BCE and may be the earliest version ever written.

 

[B5150]

Not to drag us off topic, but, I'm interested in how everyone justifies a near obession with training (whether drug-free or not) with Christian values.

If it interferes with my walk then it needs to be addressed. For me it is a discipline of mind, body and spirit. It is all encompasing. I study a daily Bible verse while I train every morning; feeding my spirit. I train for health (and goals of LBM) and employ very disciplined eating habits; feeding my body. I engage in and study many new aspects of training ideas and concept, develop and keep logs and journals, develop and keep diet planning, spend time and effort advising others; feeding my mind.

I am the Temple of the Holy Spirit. I need to keep it in fine working order in all aspects. At my age I quite honestly have very little vanity aspects of my training goals. Sure I desire to gain LBM, but I am more interested in keeping the lifestyle and disciplines that are associated with achieving my goals than I am at the goal itself. The more I progress the more modest I am about my physique and appearance. I believe it is because of the spirit in which I take on the endeavor that I am able to grow as a whole person.

JMHO

 

[EEmain]

God would want us to question the validity of His Word? If the Bible is not available to us today in an inerrant translation, then God is a liar. But I say,

Romans
3:4b God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

If the Bible is not God's Word (making it absolutely perfect), then it is the fallible, nearly worthless word of man. The God of Israel, Yod Heh Vav Heh, keeps His promises.

Liar you say not my words. Didn`t a disciple need to see the wounds to believe?

 

[EEmain]

If it interferes with my walk then it needs to be addressed. For me it is a discipline of mind, body and spirit. It is all encompasing. I study a daily Bible verse while I train every morning; feeding my spirit. I train for health (and goals of LBM) and employ very disciplined eating habits; feeding my body. I engage in and study many new aspects of training ideas and concept, develop and keep logs and journals, develop and keep diet planning, spend time and effort advising others; feeding my mind.

I am the Temple of the Holy Spirit. I need to keep it in fine working order in all aspects. At my age I quite honestly have very little vanity aspects of my training goals. Sure I desire to gain LBM, but I am more interested in keeping the lifestyle and disciplines that are associated with achieving my goals than I am at the goal itself. The more I progress the more modest I am about my physique and appearance. I believe it is because of the spirit in which I take on the endeavor that I am able to grow as a whole person.

JMHO

:goodpost:

 

[Whiskey Steve]

Not to drag us off topic, but, I'm interested in how everyone justifies a near obession with training (whether drug-free or not) with Christian values.

to me, it comes down to not letting my training goals interfere with my faith - even though I am obessed. perhaps this ill justification but I'm not training to get into fights or try and mess around with girls more often.

it seems a fine line and it's hard to walk sometimes - i guess it has more to do with motives.

sorry the message was disorganized, it's kinda hard to put it all together in 3minutes..

Very good point.....i was thinking about posting it earlier but we were on a roll with something else and i didnt want to disturb it.

I personally cannot justify my obsession with looking good but i keep doing it any way.

 

[Whiskey Steve]

I feel that in this thread I have done a fantastic job of holding my own; especially considering that I am only eighteen. (and because it was one versus all.....parzival was my only support)
Some of my beliefs that I have been asked to explain can be proved using only the Bible and some of them can not.
I would encourage you all to think heavily upon my earlier posts in page 4,5,6, (in particular look at my posts #154,158,&159)but after that we faded into argumentation and I may or may not have been intirely solid in my explanations.

 

[16vt]

Where are you getting this information?

The scripture you refer to make no reference to anything other than He created man in His own image and placed him on erath to rule over it and all the creature of the sea, sky and land...no?

Yes. Let me clarify if I can. I am not too familiar with the bible as some of you guys.

If the original purpose for man was to inherit the earth, why is it that we will eventually inherit the heavens after we die? I mean we've been taught that good people will go to heaven and bad people will not right? Will the earth always have people on it? That's where my confusion lies.

Hopefully you can help me out with that.

Thanks