The best energy/ fat loss supp
- Thread starter rochabp
- Start date
ryox82
Member
LOL as long as you have a good dental plan....
Frequency
Active member
aspirin is used to double the stim time. Typical dose recommendation is 25mg-E 200mg-C 81mg-A A cup of coffee provides about 120mg of caffeine so use that to judge whether or not 200mgs is right for you. the ephdrine really doesnt add a ton to the stim feeling for me but it does pretty good for mental focus so i dont think you need to worry about it bring a hard stim feeling to the table. 81mg of asprinin is usually found as low dose or baby aspirin. Regular aspirin comes in 325mg doses and is far too much for what its being used for in this stack. you dont want to mess up your stomach so keep to the 81mgs as more is not better in this case
criticalbench
Legend
Agreed, I would not go higher than the 81mg baby aspirins; make sure they are enteric coated.
Mick81
Member
Had a hard time getting back into my routine after nightshift yesterday, so dropped 6 RPM, 2 OEP and 2 ReCreate for brekky yesterday, followed by normal 2 scoop serve of Jack3d for pre WO a few hours later.
Lost all track of time while hitting the weights, squatted like a madman til I threw up...... Good times.
:bigeyes:
Lost all track of time while hitting the weights, squatted like a madman til I threw up...... Good times.
:bigeyes:
totalpackage
Well-known member
For great focus and energy before your workouts Phenadrine or White Lightening are two
of the best preworkout caps out there both are by APS Nutrition and a good diet is the most important part of fat loss and hard work in the gym. Either one of these two supplements will help you get the hard work done in the gym.
of the best preworkout caps out there both are by APS Nutrition and a good diet is the most important part of fat loss and hard work in the gym. Either one of these two supplements will help you get the hard work done in the gym.
ax1
Legend
can i stack bronkaid with that?
Frequency
Active member
That sounds half retarded. thats got to be over 600mgs of caffeine alone not to mention all the other stims present in that stack. No surprise you threw up. Im curious as to the exact number of stim mgs in that stack though
Outstanding
Well-known member
There is NOTHING as horrible or debilitating to me, as the stimulant induced onset of nausea. I hate to vomit, not saying that some people 'like' it, but I seriously loathe it and avoid it at all costs. Two prime examples of when this happened, early this year and then again last week, trying free samples given to me at various expos I ended up on the toilette in cold sweats mere moments from puking my guts out. That wrenching feeling that comes about and lingers for hours on end, just shuts me down and I sit there as still as possible trying to let it pass (no pun intended).
The two products that were so laced with excessive stimulants that brought about these two bouts of severe side effects were Nutrex's Hemo and Axis's Slingshot. I'm used to stimulants by and large, I was up to 6cc of VPX Clenbutrx, and 4 Gaspari Mitotropin tabs during my recent contest preparations.
The aftermath of those two experiences left me unwilling to try any of the other countless sample packets I have at home, for fear of the unknown. The nausea ends up forcing me to miss all of the day's remaining meals, so in a way these over-done stimulant products bring about catabolism indirectly.
I don't know if anyone else shares my sentiments, but I do not need stimulants or 'cognitive enhancers' of any kind to train like an animal. I look forward to training and enjoy it whole heartedly.
thebigt
Legend
axis's slingshot contains no stimulants.
Outstanding
Well-known member
I wonder what it was then, because I was unable to stand or leave the bathroom for almost four hours after that workout, and it was the absolute only variable involved with the workout that day. I use heavy whipping cream in my shakes, but it had not expired yet, so nothing else was introduced. At any rate, I just feel that companies should offered two iterations of their pre-workout product, not only to cater to gym goers such as myself who naturally have an intense focus and drive without stimulants, but also for those training late at night due to work/family, and would still like to enjoy a quality night's sleep.
Thanks for letting me know T, I wonder what it was that got to me so dramatically in Slingshot, I have a couple more sample packets so I will look over the compound panel once more.
thebigt
Legend
great avi.:chairfall:
thebigt
Legend
bronkaid. no need for the others. if you wanted to stack something else with oep, look at alpha t-2.
Minnesota
Member
have you seen the rat studies that were done on the 3,3 diiodo? san's thyrocuts is that compound but with iforces having 3,5 as well i chose to go with that to see how it goes, got two bottles and can give a review afterwards, hoping for 40 lbs drop, need to get my bulky arse lean.
rochabp
Well-known member
let me know how it goes man
Frequency
Active member
Oh noes my childhood pic has leaked. Damn you mother and your Myface'ing
yeah i wouldnt used meltdown and redline with OEP. I think OEP has 100mg of caffeine per cap, a serving of redline is, i think, around 150mgs, and im sure a serving of meldown is altleast 150mg as well. I know people argue that they have a high stim tolerance (i wear stims out myself) but i really advocate not going above 200mgs of caffeine in a dose. Dont wanna see you mother ****ers getting hurt lol. I think tt-33 looks like a better deal to me and would give that a go.
ax1
Legend
ok, thats perfect, i found a source still selling it,
should i dose them together or separately? both pre-workout i assume like i did this morning, but ill tell you i was dumb and took the bronkaid with it.
rochabp
Well-known member
i meant one one or the other, not all of them. lol.
OEP? OR redline? OR meltdown?
lol
ax1
Legend
300mg of caffeine in 1 shot isnt bad. i know i order cafe americano at starbucks all the time and i believe its 4 shots of expresso which = 400mg of caffeine. ive seen a handful of formulas that dose 300mg caffeine per serving, and i on occasion like 300mg pre-workout on my off days.
tt-33 is good, you can stack it with meltdown or oep, but if you use that new redline keep tt-33 at 2 caps a day because that new formula has both 3,3 and 3,5 in it. not sure how much just be aware.
Minnesota
Member
rochabp
Well-known member
Minnesota
Member
I got a good sense of it. Been reading up on it and the rat studies they have done.
ax1
Legend
this below is a quote from a unknown source
"From what I can tell from reading a fair few papers;
3,3'-Diiodothyronine
Advantages
* Almost no suppression of TSH/hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis
* Stimulates cytochrome c oxidase - aka decouples Electron Transport Chain (slightly more than 3,5-T2)
* Precursor to T3 & T4 (which have their own metabolic properties of course)
Disadvantages
* Interferes with plasma membrane transport of T3
* No significant increases in growth hormone seen at any dosing levels
3,5-Diiodothyronine
Advantages
* Increases serum levels of growth hormone (GH) comprable to T3
* Stimulates cytochrome c oxidase - aka decouples Electron Transport Chain (slightly less than 3,3'-T2)
* Does not interfere with plasma membrane transport of T3
* Increases activation of Glucose-6-Phosphate Dehydrogenase
Disadvantages
* Suppression of TSH/hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis is only slightly less but comprable to that of T3
Summary
If one is looking for strictly an increase in energy expenditure with less TSH depression, 3,3'-T2 is your answer..... If one is looking for more muscle mass preservation properties aswell and doesn't mind some TSH depression, 3,5-T2 is your answer...."
Outstanding
Well-known member
Great questions, I'd like to hear everyone's ideas and practices of supporting and reactivating thyroid function back to healthy/optimal levels after a cycle of T3 or any of the other supressive/aforementioned substrates/derivitaives. I have heard anecdotal reports and suggestions ranging from Guggul E/Z, Kelp/Iodine, and Selenium (even essential fatty acids) etc etc.
What would be the best protocol concerning re-igniting natural thyroid function and health post cycle, akin to HCG and Testes post AAS cessation?
sluggy
Banned
Re-activating thyroid function is relatively easy.
First and foremost I would suggest L-Tyrosine and Coleus Forskohlii (in that order), I've seen a huge difference after I take them. I don't have as much experience with it personally but guggul seems to help lots of people as well.
Also, adaptogens such as Ashwagandha and Rhodiola, help restore the balance.
Lastly, if you are iodine deficient some seaweed products may also help such as Kelp and Irish Moss.
Outstanding
Well-known member
Reps for you
Great response... especially since L-Tyrosine can easily and cheaply be obtained in pure powder form and added to shakes throughout the day to achieve high dosages. This seems ironic, since the most ubiquitous stack consists of Clenbuterol and T3, in which case Tyrosine would be a heavily used agent in order to reverse the usually encountered lowering of plasma tyrosine levels (brought about by the Clen-HCL). So it would be as simple as continuing LT usage after cycle cessation. Thanks again!
Minnesota
Member
NOW foods makes a thyroid product called "Thyroid Energy"
Serving Size: 2 Vcaps®
Servings Per Container: 90
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Vitamin B-6 (from Pyridoxine HCl) 2 mg 100%
Folate (as Folic Acid) 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B-12 (as Methylcobalamin) 60 mcg 1000%
Iodine (from Kelp and Irish Moss) 225 mcg 150%
Zinc (from L-OptiZinc® - Zinc L-Methionine Complex) 25 mg 167%
Selenium (from L-Selenomethionine) (Yeast-Free) 50 mcg 71%
Copper (from Copper Amino Acid Chelate) 1 mg 50%
L-Tyrosine (Free-Form) 1.0 (1,000 mg) †
Irish Moss (Chondrus crispus) (Thallus) 200 mg †
Guggul (Commiphora mukul) (Resinous Sap) Standardized Extract (min. 2.5% Guggulsterones) 75 mg †
Organic Kelp (Laminaria digitata) (Whole Plant) 60 mg †
Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) (Root) Standardized Extract (min. 4.5% Withanolides) 50 mg †
Concentrace® Trace Minerals 5 mg
†
* Percent Daily Values are based on 2,000 calorie diet.
Serving Size: 2 Vcaps®
Servings Per Container: 90
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Vitamin B-6 (from Pyridoxine HCl) 2 mg 100%
Folate (as Folic Acid) 400 mcg 100%
Vitamin B-12 (as Methylcobalamin) 60 mcg 1000%
Iodine (from Kelp and Irish Moss) 225 mcg 150%
Zinc (from L-OptiZinc® - Zinc L-Methionine Complex) 25 mg 167%
Selenium (from L-Selenomethionine) (Yeast-Free) 50 mcg 71%
Copper (from Copper Amino Acid Chelate) 1 mg 50%
L-Tyrosine (Free-Form) 1.0 (1,000 mg) †
Irish Moss (Chondrus crispus) (Thallus) 200 mg †
Guggul (Commiphora mukul) (Resinous Sap) Standardized Extract (min. 2.5% Guggulsterones) 75 mg †
Organic Kelp (Laminaria digitata) (Whole Plant) 60 mg †
Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera) (Root) Standardized Extract (min. 4.5% Withanolides) 50 mg †
Concentrace® Trace Minerals 5 mg
†
* Percent Daily Values are based on 2,000 calorie diet.
Outstanding
Well-known member
Awesome - looks like a true all-in-one with most of the major recommendations from earlier in this thread to recover from T3 (or T2 aka 3,5) usage. Luckilly, 3,5 (T2) has been demonstrated to be non-toxic to liver tissue, JUST WISH I COULD STILL FIND SOME pure or 1:1 ratio 3,5 ONLINE - thanks a lot San Thyrocuts 2; T3 toxicity on the other hand... ?
As an aside to the over-arching subject at hand of stimulating/activating endogenous hormone production and tissues post use of a synthetic compound, would it be prudent to run L-Tyrosine or perhaps the above listed all inclusive supplement for Thyroid health WHILE on cycle, similar to running Benedryl while on the accompanying Clen, and Nolvadex/Arimidex while on Test-E/Dianabol?
Will this improve recovery time of the thyroid and/or perhaps even maintain glandular health and integrity or function while on cycle?
Note: Would it be advisable to actively dose both Pharmaceutical/Research T3 in CONCERT with one/both of the OTC available precursors/metabolites 3,3 or 3,5 D simultaneously to enhance fat loss WITHOUT metabolizing too much lean tissue/protein as T3 has been fabled to induce? Thank you!
Very enlightening Journal Publications on each metabolite if you have time mostly regarding 3,5; which interesting enough was demonstrated NOT to reduce muscle tissue percentages in treated mice during the cited research study discussed in link 2 below. T2 (3,5) findings uncovered "The muscle mass did not vary after T2 administration to both N and D rats. Determinations made at the end of the treatment period showed that energy expenditure over a 24 h period was markedly greater in DT2 rats (+29%) than in D rats. Respiratory quotient decreased in D rats (vs. N rats) and further in DT2 animals (vs. D), thus indicating a shift in metabolism toward an increase in the utilization of lipids as substrate." BUT... the T2 was injected into rats, not orally given to humans. Thoughts?
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ax1
Legend
whats best is 3,5 in combo with 3,3, as is less suppressive to take both rather than just taking 3,5.
use 200mg 7-keto dhea daily in pct, it stimulates TSH, and i also like to add kelp to my pct as well.
as far as i know, guggul is a controversial products, and not know to really work.
i would use hdrol for either bulking or recomp, but i think there are better options for cutting. use ph's to build muscles, there is only a certain amount of cycles you can do and since there are other non-hormonal options for cutting do not use ph's for cutting.
rottie76
Active member
Adipoxil already has the ingredients from TT-33, it'll make you feel warm and it's fairly strong. Black Cats on the other hand is rather week, so stack tt33 with them. I take 25 mg geranamine with those Black Cats just to get movin'
rochabp
Well-known member
but does anyone know if the 3,3 and 3,5 in adipoxil is comparable to that of tt33?
so black cats is weak? is adipoxil weak? (in terms of thermogenics)
Outstanding
Well-known member
Where are you able to get these prices? Also, what about Alpha T2 as a possible candidate?
Out of the quartet of Black Cats, Adipoxil, Alpha T2, and TT33... if my primary goal is the simple raw removal of body fat and I am not interested at all in a secondary energy boosting or stimulant effect, and based on the reading of posts here as well as published studies the 3,5 variety seems to be the strongest/best suited of the pair for adipose attenuation and thyroid up-regulation, which current product available today would be the best purchase?
Also... when using T3 (Cytomel) in concert with T2 metabolites, does that change the dosing protocol in any way for either compound, or do the complement each other well enough that no adjustments need to be made (are the half-lives comparable and what would the optimal daily dosage schedule be to maintain steady Thyroid amplification)?
Thanks!
Minnesota
Member
I got that email too hehe
cmw
Member
Yes, stim efffect is stout. I take 2 in the am and 1 mid afternoon.