Test Ethanate for TRT(doctor ordered)

jeffh3c said:
Now 6 or 7 mos into therapy, I am feeling good on the aggression subsiding and normalizing. I also am sleeping decently. Thing is though, I am feeling tired and like I can;t tap my energy. I am not "tired" per se, but I just feel like I am running on slow all the time.

I have seen that this does happen. The thing it, I still feel better than before I was on TRT. I am nervous about complaining as he may lower the dose. What is the typical non TRT educated medical response to a complaint of returned fatigue. I am also gaining alot of fat in the belly area despite lifting. I do not watch my diet, honestly - just a note on that. I dont want the dose to be lowered due to aromatose, when what likely needs done is an AI. My doc however doesn believe in estrogen control as I have put out feelers on this earlier in treatment.

So what is he likely to do? D o I leave well enough alone or ask about my energy and weight gain?
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Typically, a knowledgeable doctor would hit you with some B12 injections for the energy. I'm assuming you are injecting yourself, right? If so you can always reduce the dosage without telling him and see how you feel, but I would not decrease the dosage personally. I seriously doubt your E2 is that high. I just ran a profile last week, being ion TRT dosage of 200mgs per week. My test levels were within range and so were the E2 levels. In fact, E2 was well below the max level. In my opinion, you do not need any AI or SERM. I tend to agree with your doctor that there is a balance between E2 and Test levels, and many believe in a ratio rather than solid numbers off a chart that were developed for the average Joe not on any AAS... You need to watch your diet to control the fat.
 
DetroitHammer said:
Typically, a knowledgeable doctor would hit you with some B12 injections for the energy. I'm assuming you are injecting yourself, right? If so you can always reduce the dosage without telling him and see how you feel, but I would not decrease the dosage personally. I seriously doubt your E2 is that high. I just ran a profile last week, being ion TRT dosage of 200mgs per week. My test levels were within range and so were the E2 levels. In fact, E2 was well below the max level. In my opinion, you do not need any AI or SERM. I tend to agree with your doctor that there is a balance between E2 and Test levels, and many believe in a ratio rather than solid numbers off a chart that were developed for the average Joe not on any AAS... You need to watch your diet to control the fat.
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My wife was a nurse so my doc lets her give me the inj at home. I have to go in periodically of course for checks. I guess i will be going in today for the stomach issues and I know they will draw test levels/choest etc as well.

Good info on the T2, your probably right (so long as not TOO high). I guess I need to maybe point the finger at myself for the diet - just figured test would have helped some in that area. I will ask about b12.
 
Not sure if my test got "too high" and that was related to low energy. I have seen some people post that too high is as bad as too low (reasons being e2??)
My labs came back with Test of 1286. They didnt give me my e2 but advised to go from every 7-10 days to every 12 days on the shots. Same dose of 200mg. I may do 100 every 6 days on my own. Either way it is odd that I am suddenly at this level when I was stable before at 800-1000. The level they are wanting they said is 800-1000 target. I am wooried about loosing my revitalized self. I feel good in general othe than th recent surge. I think the test taken at 6 days instead of 10 days made some of the difference.

Anyone feel and perform "better" at 12-1300 range LONG TERM than at800-1000?
 
jeffh3c said:
Not sure if my test got "too high" and that was related to low energy. I have seen some people post that too high is as bad as too low (reasons being e2??)
My labs came back with Test of 1286. They didnt give me my e2 but advised to go from every 7-10 days to every 12 days on the shots. Same dose of 200mg. I may do 100 every 6 days on my own. Either way it is odd that I am suddenly at this level when I was stable before at 800-1000. The level they are wanting they said is 800-1000 target. I am wooried about loosing my revitalized self. I feel good in general othe than th recent surge. I think the test taken at 6 days instead of 10 days made some of the difference.

Anyone feel and perform "better" at 12-1300 range LONG TERM than at800-1000?
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I'm not sure i'd say I feel all that much better exactly there, but definitely no worse. higher libido for sure, everything else is about the same. I was pondering lowering my dose for a while just to see at what point I start to feel bad
 
Well 6 days post shot my labs came back at 1286. I feel LESS agression and weight room gains are steady but nothing special. They said to go to 200mg every 12 days. Hopefully next time they are low and they will adjust me back up. I should have gone at day 8 or 9 instead of 6 but I didnt figure 1 or 2 days would make that big of a difference. I have been tracking on a spreadsheet myself and my labs have always been close to the predicted values. I'm not sure why this one was so much higher than expected (expected was about 1000.
 
I noticed a big difference at work last summer. I wouldn't have made it had I not been on 400mg ew. I know I know 400mg is not trt. At 400mg ew my blood levels 1300. That's not that far off lab corps new range is 348-1170 or some thing like that.
As for strength it was slow steady gains. I have a very physical demanding job and it helped a lot. In fact my job is so demanding I get pumps while I'm working.

Oh yea and to answer you question Jeff it varies person to person on how you react long term. My blood work after a year of 400mg ew showed normal except elevated test.
 
Ok. I am now on every 12 days as per last post. I am feeling even MORE tires and fatigued. Not sleepy or worn out tired. Tired like I dont want to do anything ore really move. My muscles feel like I dont want to flex and when I do anything cardio I kind of stop like a car with a flooding carburator. I go for a few seconds then i hit the brick wall and flood out.

Per my labs taken several months ago my thyroid function is normal. Doc didnt give me the current stats on that one (gets upset when I ask about TT really, but I'm not going to leave w/o that figure). Anyway, he said ti was winthin range.... (Damn that statement pisses me off, just tell me).

Any ideas on why I am almost lethargic? Having some anxirty and almost depressed feeling - maybe from the reduced shot frequency? I still trust my doc in most ways, but I am really questioning if there is something else going on here. Anyone with similar experiences your reply would be appreciated. Depression isnt an option nor anxiety in my field so I need to fix this outside the "just add an anti-depressant" fix. I dont think that is it as I have never had any issues before. This feels more like an exaggeration of how I felt before I went on Test!!
 
are you on an anti-e to control estrogen? what is your estradiol at?
 
Doc isnt one who believes in that. It would be "of label" that is meant for cancer treatments. I know that isnt true, but until something is in JAMA stating that it is ok, I guess he isnt going to do anything. Last time I had it checked (did it myself online) it was like 80 something. Yea, high!! He has't given me levels but always says they are fine. Thing is, he said they were fine when I checked the levels myself too. I might spring for another test on my own for this then if it might be high e2.
 
lol... sounds like you need a new doc and/or some self-regulating with aromasin... what a dumbass practitioner...
 
Tell him to give you a copy of the results. By law he has to. You paid for them (via insurance). I get a copy every blood draw
 
You haven't really talked about much other than doses and feeling bad.. but have you been lifting? Eating right? Doing cardio? Of course I'm not on TRT or probably not old enough to need to be, but when I do those three things and get my BF% down I feel awesome regardless.
 
BOOMGetSwole said:
You haven't really talked about much other than doses and feeling bad.. but have you been lifting? Eating right? Doing cardio? Of course I'm not on TRT or probably not old enough to need to be, but when I do those three things and get my BF% down I feel awesome regardless.
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It has been an almost year long trip so far so yes and no to it all. I initially ate better and it didn't seem to make a difference. Even when I ate right it didn't seem to help with the fat much. (I think last poster is tight e2 is out of control) I was surprised how little it did in that regard. My lifts did quit going down and stalling and started a "normal" progression uptick (not some overnight steroidal success). I am stronger but you cannot tell much to look at me. I was doing cardio but having knee issues forced me to doing the bike outside instead of the treadmill. When it cooled off I kind of quit that except on the tolerable days.
 
BTW. I do have some slightly out of date tomox. I tried some ps runs a few years back and had it on hand just in case. I read the threads and saw where this isnt the ideal to run with TRT but what about short term to get things back in balance? I also have some formex(the original) and some LG formestane if those would work better. All this stuff is out of date except the formex and that is not opened. I also have some out of date havoc, as I know that has some AI properties. I am not asking in this thread how to run these normally, but how they might help me "normalize" my TRT and e2 levels since my physician will not help.
 
tamox won't do anything to bring e down, formex and formestane might a bit, but it won't be permanent i'm guessing.
 
RH2012 said:
the fat is probably the cause of the high E2

Invalid Link Removed

Adipose tissue is the greatest peripheral source of aromatase in both males and females, contributing to the production of estradiol.

Adipose derived hormones include:
Adiponectin
Resistin
Plasminogen activator inhibitor-1 (PAI-1)
TNFα
IL-6
Leptin
Estradiol (E2)
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I think this is spot on. Based on the other feedback and my current fat % this is likely my energy problem and cause of high e2. I am going to go the formex/formestane route I guess for now. Going to start with 1 pill eod to see how that works "by feel" and get some labs after a few weeks to verify the validity of this method.

Thanks all!
 
jeffh3c said:
I think this is spot on. Based on the other feedback and my current fat % this is likely my energy problem and cause of high e2. I am going to go the formex/formestane route I guess for now. Going to start with 1 pill eod to see how that works "by feel" and get some labs after a few weeks to verify the validity of this method.

Thanks all!
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Try Formeron by Black Lion Reserach. It is also a transdermal, and works lights out, I switched off adex to formeron full time.
 
GTB said:
Try Formeron by Black Lion Reserach. It is also a transdermal, and works lights out, I switched off adex to formeron full time.
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this! Do 1-3 pumps per day rub on your forearms. This will get your e2 down and you will feel a lot better.

Your E2 is almost 3 times what it should be! No wonder you feel tired. Gotta exercise and eat righ too. Do that for a year and don't give up. You can't go on and off.
 
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