Tell Us What You Would Like to See From SNS & CEL (2021 Edition)

People joke on here? You mean, like sarcasm? I've never heard of such a thing.

OTOH - since Charles Grodin recently passed away - I went back and watched some of his interviews on Carson and Letterman. That man was hysterical.
 
sns8778 said:
Thank you. I really appreciate that. That really means a lot. And I commend you for the posts I've seen from you where you're really trying to take your company in the right direction and do things the right way. And I really hope you have a very successful future at it.

And I really do appreciate that. We make so many great products, but just not enough people know about them. I see people all the time, sometimes even people that really like us, that don't realize we offer many of the products that we do. I feel like we're a supplement company trying to compete in the age of marketing companies that just happen to sell supplements.

And you're also right in that there's a large segment of the industry now that's trying to make a quick buck and ruining the industry. There have always been companies like that, but the FDA isn't playing anymore. It makes me sad because if a lot of the things in this industry continue the way they are, I don't think we're going to have an industry left within 10 years. And then people are going to be complaining and doing the whole 'it's a government/pharma conspiracy' angle when in reality its going to be that the FDA just gets tired of fooling with the BS that a lot of companies are doing. And I don't think a lot of the people supporting companies like that really realize now that in the future when so many basic commodities are no longer available or they have to have a prescription for them, they're not going to have anyone to blame besides themselves and the companies that caused it to happen.

And I'm the same - as you probably can tell from having a good idea of costs, we operate off lower margins than most companies anyway (while still spending the extra money to be compliant) but still take a much lower margin than even our normal margins on some products in order to make them accessible to everyone - because I really want to help people and I want everyone to be able to afford the products.
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Both the FDA and Big Pharma act nowhere near their “altruistic” responsibilities to the public. I’ve been researching peptides for the last couple of years and am stunned, maybe, at the great results achieved through simple peptides. Anywhere from myostatin inhibition to antimicrobials. All with verifiable research. But, because Big Pharma can’t patent a simple chain of amino acids they block any mass production. They don’t want the cure, they want the treatment!
 
JoeMicro said:
Both the FDA and Big Pharma act nowhere near their “altruistic” responsibilities to the public. I’ve been researching peptides for the last couple of years and am stunned, maybe, at the great results achieved through simple peptides. Anywhere from myostatin inhibition to antimicrobials. All with verifiable research. But, because Big Pharma can’t patent a simple chain of amino acids they block any mass production. They don’t want the cure, they want the treatment!
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It's hard to sell drugs if you cure the illness... sadly I feel profit supersedes the betterment of people as the driver behind many company's decisions. Both pharma and supplement alike. But I will leave it at that as I do not want to digress and derail this thread. In the meantime let us enjoy the access to quality supplements from the few good companies out there like SNS.
 
JoeMicro said:
Both the FDA and Big Pharma act nowhere near their “altruistic” responsibilities to the public. I’ve been researching peptides for the last couple of years and am stunned, maybe, at the great results achieved through simple peptides. Anywhere from myostatin inhibition to antimicrobials. All with verifiable research. But, because Big Pharma can’t patent a simple chain of amino acids they block any mass production. They don’t want the cure, they want the treatment!
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The argument for legalities of peptides is not what I was referring to. That's a completely separate argument and situation. My only caution with that is the severe lack of quality control and cross contamination that's been seen with peptide companies and research chemical companies over and over.

It was regarding the supplement companies that blatantly ignore FDA laws and GMP guidelines, many of which actually really are in place to help protect the consumer - heavy metals testing, microbial testing, lot numbers for batch traceability, products being made in FDA registered facilities versus someone's garage or storage unit.

No company is helping anyone by not doing proper proper testing, intentionally inaccurately labeling their products, or not using lot numbers for lack of traceability.

My point is that as a supplement company, like it or not, there are laws and guidelines. And the companies that aren't following them are the ones that are going to continue to poke at the FDA and trigger them to overreact in the future to where it will be a lot harder to get basic things that many take for granted now days.
 
sns8778 said:
The argument for legalities of peptides is not what I was referring to. That's a completely separate argument and situation. My only caution with that is the severe lack of quality control and cross contamination that's been seen with peptide companies and research chemical companies over and over.

It was regarding the supplement companies that blatantly ignore FDA laws and GMP guidelines, many of which actually really are in place to help protect the consumer - heavy metals testing, microbial testing, lot numbers for batch traceability, products being made in FDA registered facilities versus someone's garage or storage unit.

No company is helping anyone by not doing proper proper testing, intentionally inaccurately labeling their products, or not using lot numbers for lack of traceability.

My point is that as a supplement company, like it or not, there are laws and guidelines. And the companies that aren't following them are the ones that are going to continue to poke at the FDA and trigger them to overreact in the future to where it will be a lot harder to get basic things that many take for granted now days.
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It was not my intention to disagree. I was just adding input into the dynamics of the regulatory bodies and their integration with Big Pharma. For instance, they, big Pharma, will tell you that R&D are the reason costs are so high, but fail to mention that expenses related to advertising exceed research costs. I have been checking the cost of the drugs advertised on TV and the prices are outrageous. So, place in ad for an outrageously expensive drug, then have patients ask for it and make insurance companies pay tens of thousands for 30-days worth of meds. Criminal in my book. I was in no way being argumentative and apologize if it appeared so.
 
JoeMicro said:
It was not my intention to disagree. I was just adding input into the dynamics of the regulatory bodies and their integration with Big Pharma. For instance, they, big Pharma, will tell you that R&D are the reason costs are so high, but fail to mention that expenses related to advertising exceed research costs. I have been checking the cost of the drugs advertised on TV and the prices are outrageous. So, place in ad for an outrageously expensive drug, then have patients ask for it and make insurance companies pay tens of thousands for 30-days worth of meds. Criminal in my book. I was in no way being argumentative and apologize if it appeared so.
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I understand. I didn't take you as being argumentative; I just wanted to clarify that what I was talking about was completely different. And I do agree with you in that I disagree the way that many things are handled when it comes to certain things; but that in the situation I was talking about - the laws that so many companies aren't following about proper testing, lot numbers, accurate labeling, etc. - those really are some FDA laws that really are there to protect the consumers. Some people have the perspective that everything the FDA does is bad but in cases like those things, it really is to help ensure that customers are getting what they bottle says and also to help ensure their health.
 
sns8778 said:
I understand. I didn't take you as being argumentative; I just wanted to clarify that what I was talking about was completely different. And I do agree with you in that I disagree the way that many things are handled when it comes to certain things; but that in the situation I was talking about - the laws that so many companies aren't following about proper testing, lot numbers, accurate labeling, etc. - those really are some FDA laws that really are there to protect the consumers. Some people have the perspective that everything the FDA does is bad but in cases like those things, it really is to help ensure that customers are getting what they bottle says and also to help ensure their health.
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Of course! Like you, I’m not a fan of “proprietary” formulations. Anyone with a GC/MS can determine content. Plus, can’t you add, delete, or alter the percentage of an ingredient(s) to bypass the secretive formula? I wish more enforcement would take place in regards to label accuracy and content purity. I’m surprised more people don’t die or have negative reactions to some formulations. You are to be commended for your stringency to accuracy and safety.
 
JoeMicro said:
Of course! Like you, I’m not a fan of “proprietary” formulations. Anyone with a GC/MS can determine content. Plus, can’t you add, delete, or alter the percentage of an ingredient(s) to bypass the secretive formula? I wish more enforcement would take place in regards to label accuracy and content purity. I’m surprised more people don’t die or have negative reactions to some formulations. You are to be commended for your stringency to accuracy and safety.
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Thank you. I appreciate that.

I'm not a fan of proprietary blends, but they are legal. The things I have issues with much more are companies putting things in products that aren't listed on the labels or not putting in what is listed on the label. And so many companies are literally making products themselves in a non-FDA registered facility with no oversight. Some are literally encapsulating in their homes, garages, storage units. And the complete lack of quality testing done by many companies. For example - you hear companies say things like - 'the ingredient came in today, we'll have the product available on Monday' - what many customers hear is 'great, I can get my stuff Monday' when what they really should be thinking about is the company just admitted they are capping it themselves and not doing microbial testing bc microbial testing takes time and wouldn't be back that quickly. And the ones sending out products without Lot #'s. The reason the FDA requires Lot #'s is for batch accountability so that if there are side effects or something happens, a company can trace an entire batch. There is legitimately zero reason for a company to not use Lot #'s unless they are hiding something (product spiking, not doing microbial testing, etc.) because its against the law. By selling products with no batch numbers, they're intentionally making the products hard to trace - so people need to ask themselves, if they aren't/weren't doing anything wrong, why would they be doing that.
 
sns8778 said:
I'm sorry you feel that way. I would like to encourage you to do a little more research on things before jumping to conclusions. Let me explain further:

FDA labeling law is very clear on how you are supposed to legally list the 'Other Ingredients' on your label. Unfortunately, a lot of companies don't seem to care and don't follow those guidelines. We have very strict quality controls that include procedures for accurate labeling by FDA law and also only use FDA registered contract manufacturers that follow GMP guidelines.

Types of Capsules/Capsule Shell:
- Basically, you have Gelatin capsules and Vegetable capsules.
- Some people prefer vegetable capsules but people that eat meat generally don't care.
- We use some Gelatin capsules and some Vegetable capsules. As time goes by and we run out of labels, when we do the next label runs, we change products over to Vegetable capsules.

Titanium Dioxide:
- Literally any capsule that you ever that is a white capsule - gelatin or vegetable capsule- has titanium dioxide in it. That's because Titanium Dioxide is what makes the white part of the capsule white.
- It is FDA approved, the amount used in capsules is trivial.
- It is in many toothpastes, including natural ones.
- So if you take a white capsule and don't see Titanium Dioxide on the 'Other Ingredients' then that's on the company providing it, but we follow label guidelines and label it correctly.

Other Ingredients:
- These ingredients are not added for the heck of it.
- When a company does large scale production runs, other ingredients are commonly added as 'flow materials' or 'flow agents' to keep the product from attracting moisture, sticking to equipment, and to help it flow more smoothly on the equipment. It is also important to keep the ingredients from sticking to each other which is important to make sure the ingredients mix uniformly when being blended.
- Common flow materials we use include Rice Flour, DiCalcium Phosphate,
- The best 'flow materials' or 'flow agents' for a project depend on the active ingredient(s) used.
- You mentioned Magnesium Stearate and Silica specifically, so lets examine those.
- Magnesium Stearate is FDA approved as an additive to use in supplement, OTC, and pharmaceutical ingredients. It is considered a 'flow agent'/'flow material' and helps prevent individual ingredients in a capsule from sticking to each other and the machinery that blends the ingredients or the machinery that encapsulates the ingredients. This helps improve the consistency and quality control and to ensure that the ingredient(s) are properly blended for uniform dosages.
- Silica is literally one of the most popular ingredients in the women's health market and is commonly used in hair, skin, and nails products at a dosage of grams per day. The amount of it used as an 'other ingredient' for flow material purposes is in mg. amounts.
- Summary - these materials help ensure proper mixability for a consistently blended and consistently dosed finished product.
- So again, unfortunately a lot of companies don't label their products correctly and list their 'other ingredients' but we follow FDA label guidelines and list all of the other ingredients in the product.

Let's take this one step further and talk capsule size:
- The 2 most common size capsules on the market are size 0 capsules and size 00 capsules.
- A size 0 capsule can hold a max volume of approximately 500 to 550 mg. (or less depending on material density)
- A size 00 capsule can hold a max volume of approximately 750 to 800 mg. (or less depending on material density; or slightly more depending on material density)
- So if you buy a product that claims to have 200 mg. of active ingredient in a size 0 capsule, if the company didn't add flow materials, the capsule wouldn't even be 1/2 full. So if the company doesn't list other ingredients in a case like that, well, they're just not being truthful.
- One more note on this - in addition to flow materials helping ensure proper mixability and consistently blended and dosed finished products, having the capsules proper filled also helps ensure that the capsules don't come open in the bottles. That is much more likely to happen with underfilled capsules.

I hope that you and others reading found this educational and informative. In your initial post, you said that using other ingredients made you think before buying them next time - this is one of those sad examples of where companies that don't even try to do things the wrong way and don't follow label guidelines get rewarded and where companies that follow the guidelines and and truthful and honest get viewed negatively by a customer for being so.
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sorry but i don't belive that everything FDA approved is good i know from my online research that Magnesium Stearate, and Silica. could do harm to the body , regarding other brands i use ashwaghanda from time health and magnesium biglicinate from other brand without titan dioxide ,Magnesium Stearate, and Silica and it swallow perfect no sticking . , any way i will buy SNS products no on , i will open capsule and take the ingredient
 
ZOO said:
I hope you reconsider. I assure you that SNS is among the most legitimate and responsible companies in the industry.
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yes i will buy the products is first time when i toke reduce xt before workout and i trained 2 hours without bad ocd simptoms like before, is great , after workout i have a kind stress but totay was good ,what i said before is more like sugestion about the capsule ,maibe i will buy betaine next time .
 
Coriandru said:
sorry but i don't belive that everything FDA approved is good i know from my online research that Magnesium Stearate, and Silica. could do harm to the body , regarding other brands i use ashwaghanda from time health and magnesium biglicinate from other brand without titan dioxide ,Magnesium Stearate, and Silica and it swallow perfect no sticking . , any way i will buy SNS products no on , i will open capsule and take the ingredient
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I never said that everything FDA approved is good.
I personally don't believe that everything FDA approved is good.
But I also personally don't believe everything I read on a google search without having extensive knowledge of the subject is true either ;)

My point still stands and is 100% factual:
- If you use any capsule that is white or has white in it, it has Titanium Dioxide in it. If the brand does not list that on their label, they're lying. If you choose to believe them, that's on you.
- A size 0 capsule max volume is 500 to 550 mg; so if the active ingredient you're taking is 300 mg. and the capsule doesn't look half full, there's something else added in there as other ingredients and just not listed on the label.
- A size 00 capsule max volume is approx. 750 to 800 mg.; so if the active ingredient your taking is for example 550 mg. and the capsule doesn't look 2/3 full, there's something else added in there as other ingredients and just not listed on the label.
- To say that silica is harmful in the amounts used as a flow material is absolutely false. Silica is contained in many hair, skin, and nails products at literally 20x the dose that would be used as a flow material.
- To say that magnesium stearate is harmful in the doses used as a flow material is false.

As for your comment about other brands you use and they don't have those and have no sticking, you honestly have no way to know that. Go back and reread my post - I went into detail - the other ingredients are added to ensure proper mixability and flow on the machinery to keep it from sticking to the machinery and be properly blended for dosing consistency. IF they don't have flow materials in them, then certain ingredients would 100% stick on the equipment or not properly mix on the mixers and you as the consumer wouldn't have any way to know that - because I'm explaining things that happen during the production process, not something you would notice as an end consumer.

I understand the marketing appeal of saying that a brand doesn't have other ingredients and flow materials. For the ones that really don't, its hell on their equipment. Many GMP contract manufacturers will just literally refuse to run ingredients without the proper flow material because it can damage the equipment.

Look at major players like NOW Foods - they use literally the same types of flow materials that we do. And they're considered by most to to the gold standard for quality control in this industry.

I've provided factual information. You don't have to agree with it; but that doesn't make it any less true. I'm not here to argue with you but I'm also not here to have our brands criticized and put down when we spend hundreds of hours and ten's of thousands of dollars per year on quality control measures and procedures to then be criticized bc we actually do follow the label laws and guidelines and present the information correctly.

Overall, this is a great example of a huge problem in this industry where companies that don't label products correctly and some that just outright lie about it get rewarded and brands that do things the right way get nit picked.

If you want to open the capsules and take the ingredients, I think that seems like a good solution for you. I hope that you'll enjoy the products by us that you use and I'm always glad to help you or answer questions in any way that I can.

Btw.... one more thing regarding Titanium Dioxide - its literally the ingredient in toothpaste that makes the paste white and the amount in toothpaste is quite a bit higher than in the capsule shell of a supplement.
 
Coriandru said:
sorry but i don't belive that everything FDA approved is good i know from my online research that Magnesium Stearate, and Silica. could do harm to the body , regarding other brands i use ashwaghanda from time health and magnesium biglicinate from other brand without titan dioxide ,Magnesium Stearate, and Silica and it swallow perfect no sticking . , any way i will buy SNS products no on , i will open capsule and take the ingredient
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With all due respect, saccharine was considered dangerous and a carcinogen. To generate the carcinogenic quantities given to lab animals a human would have to consume 48 cans on diet soda per day for a number of years. Don’t let alarmist rhetoric found during a web search cause you to eliminate a product from use. By all means be smart and educated, but also use rationale and logic when reviewing material.
 
sns8778 said:
Which one? ;)

We literally have 5 (not exaggerating) natural anabolics finalized and are having custom synthesis work done on 3 ingredients, which we have no idea how that's going to turn out yet which is why I generally don't even mention stuff like that. But some of you guys want me to tease stuff more haha. And by synthesis work, I don't mean the type some companies tease about where they slap a fancy name on something and call it custom - I mean working with real factories trying to have some really cool stuff done. But stuff like this I really do never get my hopes up on until we know how it tests out.

Joking aside, there is Phosphatidic Acid XT which is a natural anabolic in a sense and then the SNS natural anabolic formula coming up is Anabolic XT.

Two of the new ones for CEL I have named but not ready to release the names quite yet bc one of the names would give away the primary ingredient. And then the 3rd one I can't think of a name for anything lol. So any ideas are appreciated.

Actually, for real, if anyone throws out a good name for a natural anabolic that we aren't already planning on using and we wind up using it, I'll send whomever a free bottle for coming up with the name. And actually, I'll extend that offer not just to natural anabolics but a couple of natural muscle builders to that we have coming up.
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-Growth XT (I know you have growth factor already!)
-Stacked XT
-Build XT
-Mass XT
-Hypertrophy XT (or Hyper for short)
-Synthethis (or Synthesize) XT

Or if it doesn’t sound too roid-y:
-Anabol XT

That’s all I got.
 
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test112 said:
-Growth XT (I know you have growth factor already!)
-Stacked XT
-Build XT
-Mass XT
-Hypertrophy XT (or Hyper for short)
-Synthethis (or Synthesize) XT

Or if it doesn’t sound too roid-y:
-Anabol XT

That’s all I got.
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I appreciate the name ideas. One thing I've learned about naming products is that all input is valuable bc even if you don't come up with an exact name, sometimes it winds up being an idea from one combined with an idea from another works out perfect :)
 
sns8778 said:
I appreciate the name ideas. One thing I've learned about naming products is that all input is valuable bc even if you don't come up with an exact name, sometimes it winds up being an idea from one combined with an idea from another works out perfect :)
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Build Mass X
Growth Synthesis XT
Hypertrophy Support XT

There you go!
 
sns8778 said:
Venmo hates supplement company owners bc its owned by PayPal. Seriously, PayPal blacklisted most supplement companies back last August and then in January if your SSN was linked to a supplement company, Venmo dropped you.

Now if you have Cash App, pm me haha.
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Wow I can’t believe we actually made this work! Haha. Best supplement company ever and can’t wait to start Anacyclus Pyrethrum XT!!!

cheers!
 
Dose is the poison. There is nothing that we consume that cannot be associated with some harm in one sense or another. Most tend to overlook severe deficits/flaws in other aspects of what they take into their bodies. Instead hyper focusing on what are otherwise petty or insignificant concerns. Consume microwaveable foods? Consider the plastic leeching. Eat fast or processed foods? Consider hydrogenated oils. Enjoy organic foods? Consider the inevitable soil contaminants that will persist regardless of how well it is cleansed and prepared. Unless your diet, supplementation, and lifestyle is a absolutely “off grid” with all variables under direct control with an impossible degree of testing at every step then there are better areas that deserve this sort of obsessive attention than the composition of a capsule. Respectfully, health concerns over this will be a psychosomatic case at best. This is less directed at this instance in particular but rather something all people should ponder when evaluating where to apply their efforts. Whether that is diet, training, supplements, etc. Never step over dollars to pick up pennies.
 
sns8778 said:
I appreciate the name ideas. One thing I've learned about naming products is that all input is valuable bc even if you don't come up with an exact name, sometimes it winds up being an idea from one combined with an idea from another works out perfect :)
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Zoo XT lol
 
Jbtwentytwo said:
Wow I can’t believe we actually made this work! Haha. Best supplement company ever and can’t wait to start Anacyclus Pyrethrum XT!!!

cheers!
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Ha. You never know if you don't ask and try haha :ROFLMAO:

I hope you'll enjoy the product.
 
ZOO said:
Dose is the poison. There is nothing that we consume that cannot be associated with some harm in one sense or another. Most tend to overlook severe deficits/flaws in other aspects of what they take into their bodies. Instead hyper focusing on what are otherwise petty or insignificant concerns. Consume microwaveable foods? Consider the plastic leeching. Eat fast or processed foods? Consider hydrogenated oils. Enjoy organic foods? Consider the inevitable soil contaminants that will persist regardless of how well it is cleansed and prepared. Unless your diet, supplementation, and lifestyle is a absolutely “off grid” with all variables under direct control with an impossible degree of testing at every step then there are better areas that deserve this sort of obsessive attention than the composition of a capsule. Respectfully, health concerns over this will be a psychosomatic case at best. This is less directed at this instance in particular but rather something all people should ponder when evaluating where to apply their efforts. Whether that is diet, training, supplements, etc. Never step over dollars to pick up pennies.
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You can literally die from drinking too much completely clean water haha... some people just need a scapegoat
 
test112 said:
Growth Synthesis XT
Hypertrophy Support XT

There you go!
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I like these two. Something about hypertrophy stands out to me though. Idk about the support part of the name; maybe hypertrophy assist? I think hypertrophy is an important term and concept but also a big buzz word these days.... but I might also think people know more than they really do 🤷🏼‍♂️ hype gains xt maybe?
 
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sns8778 said:
I appreciate the name ideas. One thing I've learned about naming products is that all input is valuable bc even if you don't come up with an exact name, sometimes it winds up being an idea from one combined with an idea from another works out perfect :)
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Did someone say naming contest?
 
Afi140 said:
I like these two. Something about hypertrophy stands out to me though. Idk about the support part of the name; maybe hypertrophy assist? I think hypertrophy is an important term and concept but also a big buzz word these days.... but I might also think people know more than they really do 🤷🏼‍♂️ hype gains xt maybe?
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Maybe just Hyper XT which sounds close to hypertrophy. Only catch may be that at first glance some may think hyper as in energetic.
 
sns8778 said:
Which one? ;)

We literally have 5 (not exaggerating) natural anabolics finalized and are having custom synthesis work done on 3 ingredients, which we have no idea how that's going to turn out yet which is why I generally don't even mention stuff like that. But some of you guys want me to tease stuff more haha. And by synthesis work, I don't mean the type some companies tease about where they slap a fancy name on something and call it custom - I mean working with real factories trying to have some really cool stuff done. But stuff like this I really do never get my hopes up on until we know how it tests out.

Joking aside, there is Phosphatidic Acid XT which is a natural anabolic in a sense and then the SNS natural anabolic formula coming up is Anabolic XT.

Two of the new ones for CEL I have named but not ready to release the names quite yet bc one of the names would give away the primary ingredient. And then the 3rd one I can't think of a name for anything lol. So any ideas are appreciated.

Actually, for real, if anyone throws out a good name for a natural anabolic that we aren't already planning on using and we wind up using it, I'll send whomever a free bottle for coming up with the name. And actually, I'll extend that offer not just to natural anabolics but a couple of natural muscle builders to that we have coming up.
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MASSTER PLAN XT
 
Coriandru said:
other than creatine and x gels is anything for strenght gains ? from SNS i mean
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Increased strength gains can come from a variety of different mechanisms including, but not limited to natural anabolics, increased ATP synthesis, natural testosterone enhancement, improved VO2 Max, improved recovery, improved protein synthesis & nutrient absorption, and more.

A lot of people overlook just how many products we offer.

Creatine Products:
Natural Testosterone Boosters & Libido Enhancers:
Specialized Formulas or Ingredients:
Other Ingredients that can help in either direct or indirect ways:
Then, for the Competitive Edge Labs side of things there are:
And a lot of new things coming up in the near future under both brands.
 
dukes3577 said:
That was my understanding but then saw all the names including XT😂
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There is one new natural anabolic coming under CEL that doesn't have a name yet.

But there are several muscle building formulas that may be under either brand that aren't yet named. So ideas either way are appreciated :)
 
Anyone interested in a Symplocos Racemosa (Lohdra) Extract?

This ingredient has been in several popular products over the years like USP Labs Compound 2.0 and Ultimate-T and USP Labs Anabeta Elite.

I had wanted to do one and we were asked for it a couple of times last year, but haven't seen anyone mention it lately.

Here's a brief overview of it:

Symplocos/Lodhra has been shown to be a PDE Inhibitor. PDE's are responsible for breaking down cyclic-AMP (cAMP) in the body. cAMP has several beneficial function such as fat loss, increased muscle mass, thyroid function, and steroidogenesis (enhanced hormone production).

So basically more cAMP in the body can lead to greater fat loss, increased muscle mass, improved thyroid production, and enhanced hormone levels; all of which can be beneficial for building a leaner, more muscular physique.

Also, Symplocos/Lodhra extract increases Luteinizing Hormone (LH) and Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH); so it can help booster testosterone levels and may contribute to healthy sperm production.

--------

One holdback I've had with this is that some people get confused when they read some of the research on it because a lot of the research has been on women and where it can have very strong testosterone enhancing benefits in men, it can have testosterone lowering benefits in women. Which if you look at the method of action, makes sense; but some people get confused and read a couple words and then think it lowers testosterone. I remember PES had to fight that battle with some people not understanding and also with some people and companies attacking them over it. Cooper alluded to it in his thread (and please don't bump 7 year old threads, just linking for reading purposes):
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could make something similar to blackstone myo-stack? Idk why but that product with their halo elite was by far the best natty products I have ever used. I just found out the myo-stack is discontinued not sure why. If you could make that I would buy a grip of them
 
sns8778 said:
Increased strength gains can come from a variety of different mechanisms including, but not limited to natural anabolics, increased ATP synthesis, natural testosterone enhancement, improved VO2 Max, improved recovery, improved protein synthesis & nutrient absorption, and more.

A lot of people overlook just how many products we offer.

Creatine Products:
Natural Testosterone Boosters & Libido Enhancers:
Specialized Formulas or Ingredients:
Other Ingredients that can help in either direct or indirect ways:
Then, for the Competitive Edge Labs side of things there are:
And a lot of new things coming up in the near future under both brands.
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after betaine , i would try : Spilanthes XT ,KSM66,Citrulline Malate Powder and ( Stano-Plex 300 -- is pct needed for this?)
 
Anything that promotes muscle building/retention and fat loss has my interest. :)
 
sns8778 said:
Which one? ;)



Joking aside, there is Phosphatidic Acid XT which is a natural anabolic in a sense and then the SNS natural anabolic formula coming up is Anabolic XT.
Click to expand...

Invalid Link Removed
 
Afi140 said:
could make something similar to blackstone myo-stack? Idk why but that product with their halo elite was by far the best natty products I have ever used. I just found out the myo-stack is discontinued not sure why. If you could make that I would buy a grip of them
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I've never been asked for something similar Myo-Stack. What about it do you like?

I've heard good things about Halo Elite as well. If you like that, you'll be very happy in the near future :)
 
Coriandru said:
after betaine , i would try : Spilanthes XT ,KSM66,Citrulline Malate Powder and ( Stano-Plex 300 -- is pct needed for this?)
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Most people use M-Test with Stano-Plex while on it and then continue to use it as their PCT.

So basically, the PCT from Stano-Plex would be very mild.
 
sns8778 said:
Explain please. I want to make sure I understand what you're asking for.
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Thyroid supplement. Didn’t PES have one many years ago? Alpha T2 I believe. Everyone was stacking it with OEP. Was around $19 a bottle. Seems like most companies stopped making it.
 
BillD said:
Thyroid supplement. Didn’t PES have one many years ago? Alpha T2 I believe. Everyone was stacking it with OEP. Was around $19 a bottle. Seems like most companies stopped making it.
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I think they had more than one version of that. But I think it was based around 3,3-diiodo-l-thryonine.

A few things happened to make companies stop using it:
- There was the argument on which was better - the 3,3 or the 3,5.
- Then there was the worry on if the FDA was going to pull it.

We used to actually sell this a long time ago and it didn't sell well enough for us to keep selling.
 
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