Take on thermogenics while on cutting cycle

schwellington

Well-known member
On a cycle of epi- 40/40/40/50/50/50
11 oxo- 450/450/450/525/525/525

trying to cut fat- it isnt really working to well

Maybe I havent given it enough time yet so I will wait
But I was considering taking a thermo while on cycle my only concern being it would raise BP higher.......what do you all think

Oh and for the info I do not know what my maint cals are but I guess they are around 2500-2800

I am eating right at 2550 with excercise figuered in that drops em to about 2200

anyways thanks gents
 
you've gotta change up that macro intake.

cut the fat to like 5-10 percent of cals.

up the protein to like 60 percent of cals

keep the carbs 30 percent of cals you're takin in.
 
sooo I should eat 375g's of protein, 190 g's of carbs and about 30 grams of fat?!


Forgive me perhaps I am closed minded....but that seems like ALOT of protien and not enough fat....I may be mistaken-which im open too- but with my current diet of protien at 300, fat at 75, and carbs at 150 this provides me with depleting my carb stores thus my body will feed off its own fat reserves while not becoming catabolic from the extra colories fed to it from protien and fats- which are excellent for energy.....NOT Contradictiing you merley stating what I have learned....and if there is a better way to achieve my goal I am ALL ears sir!
 
Some really terrible advice in this thread.

You are eating at maintenance/just under maintenance and, by golly, you're not losing fat all that fast? NO ****!!! Thermodynamics my friend, energy in < energy out for basic fat loss.

But wait, you actually aren't even sure what maintenance is, so you're flying blind. Even better! And to top it all off, you are running anabolics, seemingly expecting them to magically do all the work, and are considering adding thermogenics to a cycle that very likely has already caused increased blood pressure.

Look, here's the deal. You need to make some immediate and rather drastic changes to take advantage of the cycle you've already started. With BP already a potential issue, I'd do what I describe below and save the thermos for after the cycle. Here's what to do:

1) Find out what maintenace really is. There are a couple good calcs on the internet based on the Harris-Benedict formula (not infallible, but a damn good starting point). Find one and get a ballpark figure on your BMR, factoring in all activity but do not include weight training. I will explain why in a minute.

2) Starting point for diet should be BMR - 1000 kcals. Yes, -1,000 calories. Why so low? You are on anabolics, yet you are cutting. Anabolics build muscle, but only with a surplus of calories. Without stopping to argue whether or not losing BF is a good use of a cycle, if one wants to cut while cycling, it makes the most sense to introduce a very large caloric deficit, a deficit one would never use cutting naturally for fear of muscle loss. However, while on, the anabolics should serve the only purpose you need them to: preserving muscle. So plunge the kcals, or realize you will completely waste a "cutting" cycle.

3) Control insulin. This is key to losing fat fast, and the most overlooked aspect of CKD and general low-carb diets. Ketosis is overrated; control insulin and you will get similar results to a CKD without actually going into ketosis (at least full-time). What this means practically is carbs only around workouts: pre- and post-. Green vegetables don't count, and if you are carb-tolerant you can probably get away with some for breakfast, but make sure they are low-GI. Using blood sugar supps (ALA, cinnamon, etc) for those times will help tremendously. Side note: anabolics work as nutrient partitioners; you may be able to get away with some other carbs, but I strongly recommend carbs only pre- and post-WO for maximum results.

4) Possibly up protein intake. You are cutting (catabolic) and cycling (anabolic, enhanced nitrogen retention/protein synthesis). Slowing the former and increasing the latter both need the same thing: protein. 1.5 g/lb BW or 2 g/lb lean BW is a good starting point; your 300 is reasonably close to the 333 in the former. However, if you notice any weakness, muscle loss, etc - increase as needed.


** With points 3 and 4 in mind, macros should take care of themselves. 330 g protein (1320 kcals), say 55-60 g fat (based on 2800 maintenance), 0 carbs. Now here is why I said to leave training out of the BMR calculation: your pre-and post-WO carbs will fill the energy void for the kcals burned training and will serve the dual purpose of allowing you to fuel your WOs with fresh glycogen stores. Aim for a grand total of 150-200 g carbs in this window, and they can be high-GI. We are not worried about insulin around WOs, and the 500-600 kclas or so from the carbs should all be burned off/stored in muscle, thereby not compromising your goal of fat loss.

How you train during this run is another topic entirely, but I will say lower volume, heavy weights, and circuits are the way to go.

If you do the above to a tee, you will, without a shadow of a doubt, lose a ton of fat. Get to it.
 
Thanks! Im all over it! Bulking on cycle is a no brainer for me....cutting this is my first time really appreciate the help...going to look up that calc right now....And I am aware of Potential BP issuse which is why I was hesitant to start any thermo

As far as carbs my only carb meal is right before a work out and right after- right after I have 2 servings of white rice at 72 g's of carbs a serving of skim milke mixed with two scoops of dymatize elite comes out to 88 grams of carbs.....should I up that?
 
I just got told I have a bmr of 2175, wow....okay so I need to eat 1175 calories a day!?
 
I just got told I have a bmr of 2175, wow....okay so I need to eat 1175 calories a day!?

At 6' tall and 222 lbs, I cannot possibly see how that's accurate, unless you're as fat as a house. Did you calculate BMR and use the Harris-Benedict multiplier? Here, I'll run through one.

I'll assume the above stats, and 20% BF just as an example (the fatter you are the lower your BMR will be), plus no allowance for exercise. Those stats give me a BMR of 2225. Then, using the lowest multipler in H-B (1.2 for a sedentary individual), we get a grand total of 2670 (before we factor in gym time, of course).

Running through it longhand I get 2363-170 (assuming age of 25) = 2193 BMR, again before the multiplier.

Sounds like you forgot the multiplier.
 
lol no I am not fatter than a house lol....I did forget the multiplier....let me go back in there and multiply that shizz
 
okay multiplied it came out to about 3.8k cals so I am eating at about 2.45k cals right now add in exercise and I think I am going to loose some good weight- seems I was doing okay all along I just think I am not being patient!
 
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