Okay. Where are the bodies from people with healthy hearts?Also read my second post where I posted dose and length recommendations.It has never been shown to cause necrosis in human hearts. Do you understand? I never said its healthy. I don’t think any of these fat burners or preworkouts are, especially when you don’t even know if what’s on the label is actually in them.
Can it be taken safely by person who is healthy? Absolutely.
Rat studies aren’t always applicable to humans.
Id50 was shown to be around 159 mg per kg in rats now I don’t think you’d wanna apply that to a human.
I didn’t bury my head in the sand or assume anything. Anyone who uses any ped should be getting bloods and tests done. This is common sense.
I’m not a parent and I’m not here to hold hands.
You obviously don't understand.
1. Lack of evidence in humans does not prove safety. Having evidence in an animal that says there is a risk and saying, "Oh well, it isn't in humans, and there are no studies in humans, so there is no evidence it happens in himans so it is safe" is, literally, moronic. You are saying, "lack of evidence" is more convincing than "evidence that could be a little bit better."
2. You say YOU somehow know the doses, and then state the LD50 in rats and then say, "I don't think you would want to apply that to humans." It SEEMS like you believe this helps your case, but it just highlights the flaws in your own argument.
Lets apply your logic to your scenario in #2.
You give an LD50 of 159 mg/kg in rats (sure we can adjust allosterically if you choose) But that is in rats, and rat studies don't carry over to humans - so if you take this dose and you have a healthy heart, you should be fine. There is no evidence that dose will kill a human with a healthy heart, so you should be great. I mean, if that dose would kill a healthy human, where are the bodies?
Oh, but why not just stick with the earlier statements - you ask, where are the bodies which shows just how little you understood the question to begin with.
YOU are the one qualified your original statements with stating healthy heart and not a crazy dose.
Yet, you have no studies stating what a "not crazy" dose in a human is - you HAVE to see the irony here when you are claiming that rat and mice/rat studies don't apply.
So, you are recommending doses and saying people should be fine and calling a potential danger safe(which no one knows about fully because the data does not exist) and then you are saying you are not somebody's parent? Then why are you calling things myths, promising safety, and recommending doses?
The bottom line is, the data we have suggest potential for heart damage, in multiple ways, with clen usage. Is the data conclusive? No. It isn't in humans and it could be better. But there is NO data in humans and thus no reason to believe the mouse studies are right or wrong...but anyone with an IQ above 70 would probably heavily consider the data we DO have that suggests risk over the data we do not have.
The issue is - someone who doesn't know better could do a google search, find this thread and die because they believe something is safer than it is. I am not being a scaremonger here.
Safety is a moving target, sure - but clen is certainly not risk free.
Beyond actual tissue death, there are plenty of other ways it can kill you. I spent literally 30 seconds and this was easy enough to find.
Clenbuterol is a beta-agonist that has been abused by fitness-oriented individuals for muscle growth and weight loss. We report a case of a 46-year-old man who presented tachycardic, hypokalemic, and hyperglycemic after injecting testosterone obtained from Brazil. He developed refractory...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
And since you are recommending doses, how about this (didn't you say 20 micrograms was "safe"? Was that you? I need you to lay it out for me.)
We present a case of acute clenbuterol toxicity following ingestion of 20 μg of clenbuterol, resulting in symptoms of sympathetic activation, sinus tachycardia and electrolyte derangement. The patient was managed conservatively with fluid resuscitation, electrolyte replacement and monitoring...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
How about another bodybuilder using 3 drugs for just 10 days:
A number of performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) are used illicitly to improve muscle strength by the bodybuilders. The misuse of these drugs is associated with serious adverse effects to different organs. A previously healthy 22-year-old male bodybuilder after taking stanozolol, clenbuterol, and...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Shpuld we just assume his damage wasn't from the clen because...there are no human studies!?
And if you want bodies, look at the number of heart attacks in young bodybuilders. Could it be a hundred different drugs? Sure. But clen isn't an impossible cause either.