Whacked
Well-known member
- Awards
- 2
Looking for a mild evening boost (no stims to allow for sleep)
A quick sulbutiamine research unveiled the following (wow)
A quick sulbutiamine research unveiled the following (wow)
ChrisYuhas
08-10-2009, 08:08 PM
Here is the information I came up on
Sulbutiamine. References are numbered.
Sulbutiamine (1) AKA (thiamine
disulfide, Aneurin DBE ) and pretty much most of the “thiamine analogues” out
there in my opinion are fairly dangerous to the user if they do not know what
they are doing to themselves. The reason this stuff has so much “kick” when
taken in products is because it manipulates the neurotransmitter dopamine in an
identical pathway to cocaine ingestion. Unlike amphetamines and
other “uppers”, such as ephedrine, the thiamine analogues REDUCE the body’s
ability to produce dopamine, trap dopamine in the area of the brain called the
synapse, and almost stop the function of dopamine transporters called DATs just
like cocaine. (1,2,3,4,6)
Here’s why this is addictive in a nutshell and
based off of my research and it’s similarities to cocaine. (8) Dopamine is the
body’s feel good neurotransmitter. When thiamine analogues are ingested dopamine
transporters are disabled. Dopamine transporters take dopamine out of the
synapse (and area in the brain that processes neurotransmitters) so that the
receptors in the synapse are not overloaded with too much dopamine at once. If
there is too much of an overload at once then a stimulatory affect occurs along
with appetite suppression, euphoria, etc. The problem here is that the dopamine
transporters are literally shut down and the body keeps pumping the rest of its
dopamine in the synapse making your neurons go FREAKIN NUTS, with no way to get
out. You can maintain a good effect for about 3 or 4 days blocking DAT. Then,
the come down occurs. Finally the body will bounce back in a couple of days and
increase DAT and start pulling that dopamine out of the synapse all the while
desensitizing the body to dopamine for being trapped in the synapse for so long.
Then you have reduced dopamine output, desensitized dopamine receptors in the
synapse, and lowered DAT levels. All those levels reduced are the equivalent to
depression, lethargy, emotionless state, etc. This is the addiction mechanism
that people are experiencing, not to mention one interesting case of a guy
coping well with his bipolar disorder then completely disregarding this therapy
after taking thiamine analogues. (7)
Here’s where this product gets more
dangerous. If taken with a very widely prescribed SSRI like Zoloft (sertaline
HCL) a person could literally render themselves clinically insane for a real
good couple of hours. Mind you people do not just publically go out of their way
to claim that they take antidepressants. Zoloft and other SSRI
antidepressants like it FORCE a HUGE dopamine release in the body to curb
depression in individuals. Now put two and two together here. You take one drug
that forces a high release of dopamine, then the next product traps that forced
release of dopamine in the synapse where it cannot be removed because the DAT
(dopamine transporters) are almost disabled. Two words for that individual:
temporary psychosis. I would not want to be on the business end of that kind of
withdrawal.
The other aspect I do not like about this fat burner is that
its ability to suppress appetite causes most to eat well below their caloric
intake per day and disrupts the mini meal process. Most traditional dieters are
terrible when it comes to eating properly without getting too busy at work,
life, etc. To cut properly a person needs to eat within negative 500-1000
calories per day with high protein, glutamine, and efa intake. Any more calories
than that is just a prayer for a pro-catabolic environment to burn muscle for
energy. I’m personally bothered when I hear about the girl who likes it because
she only needs to eat one time a day or the guy who says the same thing for that
matter as it contradicts core aspects of dieting to reduce catabolism a.k.a. the
body using muscle for energy.
The reality of the product in my opinion is
along the lines of pro hormones. Some people feel the side effects while others
suffer minimal headaches if none at all. I think due to a high number of people
on the net giving the same feedback of depression, lethargy, motivational
issues, it sounds exactly like a person riding high on cocaine for days then
needing almost a week off to function like normal.
If you know a person
who has ingested a product like this I would recommend taking L-Glutamine,
L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine, 5-HTP, L-DOPA, and a multivitamin, to jump start the
body’s ability to produce dopamine in adequate quantities once again.
1.
Evidence for a modulatory effect of sulbutiami... [Neurosci Lett. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI (Sulbutiamine,
Reduces Dopamine output, Increases D1 receptor from use, lower DAT)
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_ResultsP
anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum (Reduction of DAT and storing
dopamine in synapse is stimulation of cocaine)
3. Cocaine-induced dendritic spine formation in D1 and D2 dopamine receptor-containing medium spiny neurons in nucleus accumbens (Cocaine Use
Increase in D1 Receptor)
4. Dopamine receptor density, sensitivity and mRNA le... [Brain Res. 1994] - PubMed - NCBI (D1,D2 increase in
cocaine use, Lower DAT)
5. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract (Reduced
dopamine levels creates early Parkinsons Type Syndrome)
6. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_ResultsP
anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum (Rats good source for testing of
human dopamine neurotransmitter conditions )
7. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_ResultsP
anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum (Bipolar patient had developed
high tolerance to sulbutimine and intake of compound lead to increase mental
instability)
8. Understanding Addiction (General
Document to understand the addiction physiological process)
Read more:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101487#ixzz1eFbAUWHi
