Suicide Inhibiter vs Nolva

Frank Reynolds said:
**** we can take it a step further and say if you are using UG aas than the concentration should be looked at as an arbitrary number. You don't know if that 300mg/ml is 150 or 350(for example). It's only a reflection of what's in that specific batch/bottle.

You think you are taking 600mg a week. Maybe you are taking 400,maybe 700.

Who knows.

I think this is where experience comes in.
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So true, I see this all the time and half to laugh. Unless your using RX grade, absolutely no testing has ben done to verify actual dose. In luwellans book, he conducted actual lab test on UG products, and the actual dosage is all over the map. As far as using Nolva is concerned, you can certainly use it to prevent Gyno during times of high E2(while on cycle). There are benifits to this, as Nolva does not play hell on your colesterol. You need to weigh the risk reward of ANY substance you put in your body.


Joe, Do yourself a favor, buy Luwellan's book and read, it will make things much clearer for you.
 
Warwarrior said:
Yeah its fine allright but it doesnt do u any favors if u r experiencing sides from prolactin/progestrone.

I dont understand why the hell should people eat nolva with 19nors just for the reason "its fine". Control your estros and keep Caber in hand when doing 19nors
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Warwarrior,
I have caber on hand.
 
jt339 said:
I believe it was the Olympics in 1988 when the guy who won tested positive for winstrol (i think). If it happened in golf, I doubt anyone would have cared, but the whole world was watching so they figured they had to do something.
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But again, who cares if the world is watching. If they want to ban it for athletes, let them. Why take away everyone's rights?
 
alpinecoach said:
So true, I see this all the time and half to laugh. Unless your using RX grade, absolutely no testing has ben done to verify actual dose. In luwellans book, he conducted actual lab test on UG products, and the actual dosage is all over the map. As far as using Nolva is concerned, you can certainly use it to prevent Gyno during times of high E2(while on cycle). There are benifits to this, as Nolva does not play hell on your colesterol. You need to weigh the risk reward of ANY substance you put in your body.

Joe, Do yourself a favor, buy Luwellan's book and read, it will make things much clearer for you.
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I just looked it up. Anabolics 2002?
 
Warwarrior said:
Yeah its fine allright but it doesnt do u any favors if u r experiencing sides from prolactin/progestrone.

I dont understand why the hell should people eat nolva with 19nors just for the reason "its fine". Control your estros and keep Caber in hand when doing 19nors
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Because it will also wipe out gyno when on those compounds. I thought my point was clear. You stop estrogen from binding to the receptor you stop gyno, even if you are running 19-nors.

I would rather run 10mg of Nolva and a very low dose AI to manage estrogen than introduce a dopamine agonist such as caber.

I can tell you I am speaking from experience, while you are just parroting misinformation. I have used this protocol with numerous people, with success. Believe what you want.

You can run caber if you like, I am not trying to stop you..lol
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Because it will also wipe out gyno when on those compounds. I thought my point was clear. You stop estrogen from binding to the receptor you stop gyno, even if you are running 19-nors.

I would rather run 10mg of Nolva and a very low dose AI to manage estrogen than introduce a dopamine agonist such as caber.

I can tell you I am speaking from experience, while you are just parroting misinformation. I have used this protocol with numerous people, with success. Believe what you want.

You can run caber if you like, I am not trying to stop you..lol
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Frank, I just got my blood work back and my Prolactin levels are at 14. While my doc says normal for a man is 2-17, someone mentioned in this thread that I should try to get to single digits. If caber is not the way, what is the way to lower prolactin?
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
Frank, I just got my blood work back and my Prolactin levels are at 14. While my doc says normal for a man is 2-17, someone mentioned in this thread that I should try to get to single digits. If caber is not the way, what is the way to lower prolactin?
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Why are you trying to lower it?
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Because it will also wipe out gyno when on those compounds. I thought my point was clear. You stop estrogen from binding to the receptor you stop gyno, even if you are running 19-nors.

I would rather run 10mg of Nolva and a very low dose AI to manage estrogen than introduce a dopamine agonist such as caber.

I can tell you I am speaking from experience, while you are just parroting misinformation. I have used this protocol with numerous people, with success. Believe what you want.

You can run caber if you like, I am not trying to stop you..lol
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Not convinced by that post of yours. I can tell u not a doctor or even a bright person so definitely not gonna keep this up with u.
 
Warwarrior said:
Not convinced by that post of yours. I can tell u not a doctor or even a bright person so definitely not gonna keep this up with u.
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Dude you can't even type in coherent sentences..lol "I can tell u not a doctor" Are you a caveman?

I really don't care if you are convinced or not. You are faceless moron on the internet. haha

Read this thread, maybe you will come away with some new knowledge. Pay attention to the posts by Seth Roberts. He wrote a book on Anabolic Pharmacology. Maybe he is qualified.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/123701-progesterone-prolactin.html

JoeBrooklyn said:
Because I'm told that I want to be in the single digits. Besides, prolactin is what prevents you from getting an immediate erection after you ejaculate, so the less prolactin the better. Why, do you think 14 is a good number?
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Why are you concerned by a number? Are you having issues? Or are you trying to lower a number for the sake of lowering it.
 
I'm not having issues at this moment as I've been off for almost 8 weeks now. When I was 20 I could cum and 2-3 minutes later get another erection and rock n roll. I am now 43, after I cum now, I have to wait 15-20 minutes. So if I can lower Prolactin to help me out on this why not? And again I ask, is 14 a good number?
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Dude you can't even type in coherent sentences..lol "I can tell u not a doctor" Are you a caveman?

I really don't care if you are convinced or not. You are faceless moron on the internet. haha

Read this thread, maybe you will come away with some new knowledge. Pay attention to the posts by Seth Roberts. He wrote a book on Anabolic Pharmacology. Maybe he is qualified.
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And you are brainless moron on the internet. Which is better...go figure. Haha

Thanks for the thread boy!
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
I'm not having issues at this moment as I've been off for almost 8 weeks now. When I was 20 I could cum and 2-3 minutes later get another erection and rock n roll. I am now 43, after I cum now, I have to wait 15-20 minutes. So if I can lower Prolactin to help me out on this why not? And again I ask, is 14 a good number?
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I don't see the point of running caber if you are not having issues climaxing, or other prolactin induced side effects. Your numbers are not clinically elevated.

I guess I am of the school of thought "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I try and run the least amount of **** possible.

Again, this is just my opinion. You need to figure out what makes the most sense to you, and apply it.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
I don't see the point of running caber if you are not having issues climaxing, or other prolactin induced side effects. Your numbers are not clinically elevated.

I guess I am of the school of thought "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I try and run the least amount of **** possible.

Again, this is just my opinion. You need to figure out what makes the most sense to you, and apply it.
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My philosophy is why be average? I'm an ex Infantryman, my motto is be all you can be. How old are you if you dont mind me asking?
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
My philosophy is why be average? I'm an ex Infantryman, my motto is be all you can be. How old are you if you dont mind me asking?
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30.

As I said you need to do what you feel comfortable with. If you feel running additional compounds is going to help you, then do so.

I mean with that mentality, why not run 2g of test a week, and a gram of tren? Why be average?
 
Frank Reynolds said:
30.

As I said you need to do what you feel comfortable with. If you feel running additional compounds is going to help you, then do so.

I mean with that mentality, why not run 2g of test a week, and a gram of tren? Why be average?
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30 was a great age. I was jerking off 3 or 4 times a day and I could have sex 5 or 6 times. Today, I can last longer and control my ejaculations better but 2 or 3 times is more than enough in one sex session now. The days of 5 times in one session are over. And as we get older it only gets worse. Talk to me when you are 40 and let me know how you're proforming. If you're like me, you will be ok; but I dont want to be ok.

As for running 2g of test a week and a gram of tren, in that case more is not better. But if I'm wrong, please correct me.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
As for running 2g of test a week and a gram of tren, in that case more is not better. But if I'm wrong, please correct me.
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If you don't wanna be average, than run what the freaks run..haha My point is you need to draw the line somewhere, with all of this stuff.

Let me ask this. If this is something you need to run indefinitely to get, and keep this desired effect, is it worth the potential cardiac risks to be able to "recover" a few min quicker? If you take it, and still don't recover faster, then what?

But to reiterate, if YOU feel it is worth it, then do it. I am just saying for ME, I like to run the least amount of **** as I can.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
If you don't wanna be average, than run what the freaks run..haha My point is you need to draw the line somewhere, with all of this stuff.

Let me ask this. If this is something you need to run indefinitely to get, and keep this desired effect, is it worth the potential cardiac risks to be able to "recover" a few min quicker? If you take it, and still don't recover faster, then what?

But to reiterate, if YOU feel it is worth it, then do it. I am just saying for ME, I like to run the least amount of **** as I can.
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What do the freaks run? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm really just asking. As for the cardiac issue. They show up with extreme abuse. I'm talking about a normal dosage which is a half a pill (50mg i think I have to check) every four days for 4 weeks. If it doesnt work, well, next...
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Because it will also wipe out gyno when on those compounds. I thought my point was clear. You stop estrogen from binding to the receptor you stop gyno, even if you are running 19-nors.

I would rather run 10mg of Nolva and a very low dose AI to manage estrogen than introduce a dopamine agonist such as caber.

I can tell you I am speaking from experience, while you are just parroting misinformation. I have used this protocol with numerous people, with success. Believe what you want.

You can run caber if you like, I am not trying to stop you..lol
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This is exactly what I do 10mg Nolva/day & 25mg Adex 2x/week, best of both world in my opinion.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
As for the cardiac issue. They show up with extreme abuse. I'm talking about a normal dosage which is a half a pill (50mg i think I have to check) every four days for 4 weeks. If it doesnt work, well, next...
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With caber it isn't extreme abuse, read the statistics.

What makes you think 4 weeks will do the trick? Your prolactin might come right back up to where it is now, upon stopping. It could be something you always need to run to mange it.

This could be YOUR normal range. That is my point. You are treating a problem that doesn't seem to exist.

Do you have a history of prolactin test results?

I was just giving you my opinion on the subject. Caber on my friend!
 
Frank Reynolds said:
With caber it isn't extreme abuse, read the statistics.

What makes you think 4 weeks will do the trick? Your prolactin might come right back up to where it is now, upon stopping. It could be something you always need to run to mange it.

This could be YOUR normal range. That is my point. You are treating a problem that doesn't seem to exist.

Do you have a history of prolactin test results?

I was just giving you my opinion on the subject. Caber on my friend!
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Frank, I have read the stats and although I admit that I have not done a whole lot of research what I have read is that only those who take large amounts have developed this and those would be people that suffer from Parkenson's Disease which is what Caber is used for. I dont believe there are studies on short small uses. But I may be wrong.
4 weeks is the amount prescribed. I don't know that it will do the trick I can only rely on people who are much smarter than me like Dan Duchane and others who have used it. I'm sure it doesnt work the same for everyone. I have heard of a person who took it and it had a negligable affect. But it's worth a try.
I'm under no illusions that once I stop taking it my prolactin levels will not go back up; but you can say the same thing about testosterone and aas.
As for a problem that doesnt exist, it may not now; but when you're on Deca I can tell you from experience it does exist. After 3 weeks of test and deca my levels of prolactin were 17.
Yes, I do have a person history of prolactin test results. 3 weeks into my test and deca cycle my levels went to 17.
I appreciate your opinion very much and please don't stop because I may very well be all wet, I'm still learning and have no problem being challenged as long as it's done respectfully.
 
Rodja said:
You're attributing too much on the class of AI instead of the dose and you were running so much that it is impossible to pinpoint the cause of anything.



Did you get blood work to prove this or were you going off of "feel." Also, you're making the mistake of thinking estrogen is the devil without realizing there are benefits to estrogen and the aromatization amounts vary from person to person.
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I got my new blood work and asked for Estrogen test and the doctor says that the lab said the blood needs to be drawn at the lab, so I need to be refered to them. So I still dont know what my Estrogen levels are, what I do know at this point is:
Total Test: 630
Prolacton: 14
Arteries clear
Bad Choesterol: 213
Good Cholseterol:30
The blood work for cholseteral was done without fasting.
 
Yup... I'd reduce my prolactin to single digits - caber or prami. I'd bring the estrogen down with Anastrazole and/or Aromasin. Take those down.
 
JoeBrooklyn said:
I'm using Letro right now and Caber for 7 days. My libido is still very low.
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Ok, I think you might be pushing estrogen to low and the problem with letro when you stop will be rebound estrogen then too high. I'd stop the letro only for 4 days or so and watch my libido, if it comes up and then drops you know you just need to bring the estrogen down a little with a suicide inhibitor like aromasin - not too much or you go too low again and then stuck low for couple weeks while your body makes more aromatase enzyme, but if you do just a little at a time and then stop when the libido shows up promptly = you threaded the needle and mission accomplished. Let me know how it goes, I
 
ThyBroker said:
Ok, I think you might be pushing estrogen to low and the problem with letro when you stop will be rebound estrogen then too high. I'd stop the letro only for 4 days or so and watch my libido, if it comes up and then drops you know you just need to bring the estrogen down a little with a suicide inhibitor like aromasin - not too much or you go too low again and then stuck low for couple weeks while your body makes more aromatase enzyme, but if you do just a little at a time and then stop when the libido shows up promptly = you threaded the needle and mission accomplished. Let me know how it goes, I
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Ok, will do. I have been waiting for my blood work. I got my test and prolactin but still waiting on my estrogen. I thought that I would have a period of good libido and that's how I would know my estrogen was down. Although I felt better after doing some suicide inhibitor called Fomeron, I didnt feel 100%, then I started doing Letro and today after 7 days I feel worse. But I will stop today, I didnt take any and I will wait 4 days like you said. I should have my results by Friday or Monday.
 
Exactly ya... you lowered through your sweet spot with estrogen. Ok, this will be hard to do, and take serious focus, but if you can do it, you will be OK IMHO. Let estrogen drift up and check how you feel as it goes up through the rebound of the letro(2 day half life, so by 4th day you should feel peak libido for your current state say 70%) -- your peak will feel less than 100% but better than now, say 70% for example. Ok, now you suicide inhibit down on day 5 or 6 likely (for maybe only a day or two or take the suicide inhibitor every other day for 1-3 days) until you feel about 70% or wherever you felt peak on the way up on the rebound... and you stop the suicide AI right there and wait, wait, wait, a week while your body fine tunes and you should improve while doing nothing more. Continue the caber a max of 4 weeks and this should raise your DHT which will increase libido and the range of your sweet spot with the estrogen -- I'll post an article to support DHT increase from reduced Prolactin because some "young bro science" will dispute it. You want to get your estrogen just right and your DHT just right and right now, likely both are off or moving toward right in light of the caber. (Me... I'm 43... with advanced degrees... lots of cycles and long cycles too... not a doctor, but I take this ****e seriously and I'm giving you my best bro so... at least you know).

Article:
The effect of prolactin on androgen response to human chorionic gonadotropin in normal men.
Lackritz RM, Bartke A.
Abstract
Testicular androgen responses to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) were compared in normal males before and after suppression of prolactin (PRL) secretion with bromocriptine. Baseline follicle-stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, and PRL levels were suppressed by bromocriptine, 2.5 mg daily (P < 0.05). Serum testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels were reliably increased by one intramuscular injection of hCG (P < 0.05). Although testosterone responses to hCG were not significantly different in normal PRL and suppressed PRL cycles (P > 0.05), the DHT response was significantly increased in the suppressed cycle (P < 0.05), suggesting a physiologic 5 alpha-reductase blockage by PRL in men.
 
ThyBroker said:
Exactly ya... you lowered through your sweet spot with estrogen. Ok, this will be hard to do, and take serious focus, but if you can do it, you will be OK IMHO. Let estrogen drift up and check how you feel as it goes up through the rebound of the letro(2 day half life, so by 4th day you should feel peak libido for your current state say 70%) -- your peak will feel less than 100% but better than now, say 70% for example. Ok, now you suicide inhibit down on day 5 or 6 likely (for maybe only a day or two or take the suicide inhibitor every other day for 1-3 days) until you feel about 70% or wherever you felt peak on the way up on the rebound... and you stop the suicide AI right there and wait, wait, wait, a week while your body fine tunes and you should improve while doing nothing more. Continue the caber a max of 4 weeks and this should raise your DHT which will increase libido and the range of your sweet spot with the estrogen -- I'll post an article to support DHT increase from reduced Prolactin because some "young bro science" will dispute it. You want to get your estrogen just right and your DHT just right and right now, likely both are off or moving toward right in light of the caber. (Me... I'm 43... with advanced degrees... lots of cycles and long cycles too... not a doctor, but I take this ****e seriously and I'm giving you my best bro so... at least you know).

Article:
The effect of prolactin on androgen response to human chorionic gonadotropin in normal men.
Lackritz RM, Bartke A.
Abstract
Testicular androgen responses to human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) were compared in normal males before and after suppression of prolactin (PRL) secretion with bromocriptine. Baseline follicle-stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, and PRL levels were suppressed by bromocriptine, 2.5 mg daily (P < 0.05). Serum testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels were reliably increased by one intramuscular injection of hCG (P < 0.05). Although testosterone responses to hCG were not significantly different in normal PRL and suppressed PRL cycles (P > 0.05), the DHT response was significantly increased in the suppressed cycle (P < 0.05), suggesting a physiologic 5 alpha-reductase blockage by PRL in men.
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Thank you so much. I will stop Letro today. So by Tuesday I should start a suicide inhibitor.
 
ThyBroker said:
How do you feel? Do you have your bloods back? :)
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No, the idiots at the lab didnt have enough blood to do the estrogen test, meanwhile I told my doctor that's what I mainly needed. I went to another doctor Friday and he sent me to a lab and they said they would have mu results by Monday or Tuesday.
Meanwhile I took your advice and didnt take anymore Letro since Thursday and I am feeling better today. I think you wrote I can start the suicide inhibitor Tuesday?
 
Ya, maybe waiting for the bloods is a waste of time and money frankly if you feel some libido coming back directly confirming estrogen rebound. Ok, so what I would do is stay focused on how you feel and mark when your libido starts drops off again indicating you are into the rebound with estrogen going to high, sounds like that is tomorrow as anticipated -- at anytime thereabouts you can take some suicide inhibitor (I presume exemenastane which though start to has effect within 2 hours, has peak estrogen reduction about 2-3 days later and so then just take one dose and wait a few days and go by feel, you should get libido that night and the next day... if you don't feel any improvement in libido on the first dose within 12 hours to a day, then the next day later take another dose, then wait again and if you feel improvement then just wait 2-3 days). Stay on Caber, and I would add nolvadex too now is a good idea to prevent any estrogen gyno since you are going to be toying on the upper side of estrogen levels for a few days and also to support your HPTA which would be good since you could benefit from further increased Test levels probably, based on your prior bloods, IMO. Ya, I would add Nolva today if you have it, can only help and not hurt.
 
ThyBroker said:
Ya, maybe waiting for the bloods is a waste of time and money frankly if you feel some libido coming back directly confirming estrogen rebound. Ok, so what I would do is stay focused on how you feel and mark when your libido starts drops off again indicating you are into the rebound with estrogen going to high, sounds like that is tomorrow as anticipated -- at anytime thereabouts you can take some suicide inhibitor (I presume exemenastane which though start to has effect within 2 hours, has peak estrogen reduction about 2-3 days later and so then just take one dose and wait a few days and go by feel, you should get libido that night and the next day... if you don't feel any improvement in libido on the first dose within 12 hours to a day, then the next day later take another dose, then wait again and if you feel improvement then just wait 2-3 days). Stay on Caber, and I would add nolvadex too now is a good idea to prevent any estrogen gyno since you are going to be toying on the upper side of estrogen levels for a few days and also to support your HPTA which would be good since you could benefit from further increased Test levels probably, based on your prior bloods, IMO. Ya, I would add Nolva today if you have it, can only help and not hurt.
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Ok, I took some Fomeron today, a suicide inhibitor and I did feel a little better later in the day. So I should take another dose or wait 2-3 days? Keep in mind I begin PCT Thursday.
 
Just got my results from Monday. My estrogen was 12. Now what? I have been taking Fomeron (a suicide inhibitor) for the past two days.
 
12 on a scale of ? what's the range on your test type? Is that high or low? Was it estrodiol or total estrogen? What else was tested? Post your full bloods with ranges and let's dissect it -- or you can email it to me if what to keep it confidential
 
ThyBroker said:
12 on a scale of ? what's the range on your test type? Is that high or low? Was it estrodiol or total estrogen? What else was tested? Post your full bloods with ranges and let's dissect it -- or you can email it to me if what to keep it confidential
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On a scale of 0 to 250. Normal for men is between 14 and 70. I assume it's total estrogen. I dont have the whole exam. I have an appointment with him on 1 March. I guess I can have him e-mail it to me. He tested everything.
So should I quite the AI now?
 
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