Straying away from progressive load/ HST

Cass9311

Cass9311

New member
Alright guys Ive been doing quite a bit of research lately on the HST program for my upcoming bulk, and my question regarding the whole "progressive load" theory is that would it still be effective coming fresh out of a cut?? For example, instead of doing the listed scheme of

Weeks 1-2

15 reps

Weeks 3-4

10 reps

Weeks 5-8

5 reps


-I would basically be reversing this scheme.. starting with the 5 rep range weeks 1-3. Seeing as how I have been at a high rep range for cutting quite some time now.. I want to shock my muscles w/ heavy weights going into my bulk and Im afraid staying at a 15-10 rep range for 4 weeks would not have the effect I am looking for.. my muscles are already used to this.

My current split is the typical 4 day split

MON: Chest bi's abs
TUES: Legs
THURS: Back tri's abs
FRI: Delts/ traps

I understand in the HST program the method of more frequent muscle work.. so even if I "reversed" this scheme could I still make significant gains by the end of the program considering I have been on a conventional 4 day split for my entire 10 week cut?

Thanks for any advice on this theory..
 
You misunderstand the program. The point of HST is progressive load over time. The weight has to increase regularly over time, the rep schemes are incidental and the frequency is a separate principle. If you reverese the micro cycles you're defeating the whole point of the implementation. I'd recommend you go heavy on something like 5x5 if you want to lift heavy right out of the gate. Then, in the future, do a strategic deconditioning and follow the HST routine as it's supposed to be and see how it goes for you.
 
If you are that paranoid, you can start at 12 or 10 reps and just keep the weeks longer.

All that deconditioning is still kind of sketchy science.
 
There was a study that showed a benefit of going from 15 reps to 5 reps better than going from 5 reps to 15 reps.
 
ItsHectic said:
There was a study that showed a benefit of going from 15 reps to 5 reps better than going from 5 reps to 15 reps.
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I doubt the ranges had anything to do with it, it's likely the weight used. In the end despite all the finnagling muscle growth is tied to the weight on the bar and frequency of use. Progress the weight, lift frequently and eat right, you'll grow. As for deconditioning I'm not sure of the science behind it and I don't think Hay**** has added much to support that aspect over the years, but it doesn't hurt and is worth doing if you're coming out of a heavy lifting program. You may not 'sensitize' your muscles to weights usable in the 15 range, but those you see in the 10 and 5 ranges I'd wager would be more effective given some time off.
 
anoopbal said:
If you are that paranoid, you can start at 12 or 10 reps and just keep the weeks longer.

All that deconditioning is still kind of sketchy science.
Click to expand...


None the less, the workouts used in HST are much different the typical split I have listed that I have been following. Volume and frequency very diff as well.
 
Cass9311 said:
None the less, the workouts used in HST are much different the typical split I have listed that I have been following. Volume and frequency very diff as well.
Click to expand...

Here's HST in a nutshell.

1) Forget the workout presented at the HST site. It's a one size fits all cookie cutter routine to get you started and to introduce the principles.

2) It's the principles that count, and generally speaking any workout that's not completely retarded will follow those principles already. Those principles are:

I - Progressive load over time.

II - Frequency.

III - Strategic deconditioning.

Explained further:

I - The load on the bar has to increase fairly frequently because growth is inevitably tied to your muscle's response to increased tension. Your muscles develop a resistance to responding to the same tension which is called Repeat Bout Effect. The key to overcoming RBE is to lift more weight by upping the pounds as frequently as possible. This presents a problem if you're already lifting heavy.

II - Your body is capable of growing muscle in response to a workout with less than a week's recovery. Simply put, you can workout a muscle productively 2-3 times a week, even more, andyou don't have to wait for 'full recovery'. Some people have tried 6 times a week, 2-3 seems to be the sweet spot to get the volume and fit into schedules easily.

III - Because of RBE once you get to the heavy weights your muscles will stop responding to the tension they produce at some point. Generally speaking a heavier weight will be effective over a greater number of workouts. Meaning if your 5RM on bench is 275lbs, you can probably lift 275 for two or three workouts before it loses efectiveness. Perhaps longer. Whereas 185lbs will wear out its effectiveness quicker. So, when workouts seem to lose their effectiveness and you're lifting as heavy as you can, you Strategically Decondition for a couple weeks in the hope that, and this is arguable to say the least, your muscles will become responsive to the lower weights again, which is why HST cycles the weights through various imposed rep ranges. Remember it's the weight progression that matters, the rep scheme just flows from that requirement.

So if you want to lift heavy, try this: an HST program based on your 8, 5, and 3RM. Repeat the end weights of each micro cycle a couple of times and that will reduce the zig zagging of the weight over the cycle. Hit each muscle at least 2 times a week untl you get to the negatives in which case you can leave more time. Try to keep volume fairly consistent, meaning do some lighter sets if need be during the heaviest portion of the cycle in addition to the actual work sets.

The easiest way to set up HST in my experience is to just do a simple full body routine. Try mine if you like:

Day One
Squat
Bench
Row
Curls

Day Two
Deadlift
Clean and Press
Lat Pull Downs
Triceps Extensions

Alternate those every other day or so and you'll get the frequency you need. You'll hit your whole body two to three times a week. I even have a spreadsheet buried somewhere with this very workout on it, I'll see if I can dig it up and post it if you like.
 
Yeah man I would really appreciate the listed workout w/ the rep scheme you mentioned posted-

what is your theory on volume for compounds and assistance work i.e curls? HST program says only1-2 actual working sets. I would probably do 2 warm up sets at a lighter weight then try to hit whatever my rep maximum is...
 
Cass9311 said:
Yeah man I would really appreciate the listed workout w/ the rep scheme you mentioned posted-

what is your theory on volume for compounds and assistance work i.e curls? HST program says only1-2 actual working sets. I would probably do 2 warm up sets at a lighter weight then try to hit whatever my rep maximum is...
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It depends on the volume you can take. Personally I trie and balance the volume over the routine so it increases. You're only going to be using your rep max at the end of each micro cycle anyway, so that's not an issue.
 
Here's the file, I had to revamp it a bit but the workout is in there. Here's how to use it:

I - Don't bother unlocking it. You'll just **** it up, not out of malice or stupidity but because there are enough dependent formulas and such that I never bothered to properly make absolute vs relative and such that changing anything is a real bad idea.

II - The worksheets are these: Exercise - Weight, Intro, 5x5 Linear, 8,5,3 HST. Those are the only ones that translated correctly to the new excel format so I list Max Stim, my other HSTs and Dual Factor 5x5, not to mention all the weirdass workouts I've come up with.

III - You can only manipulate the fields that are open and with no grey background, and not even all of those. On the Exercise - Weight sheet you can enter up to 10 exercises, a weight for each one, and how many reps you can lift at that weight. Pick an lift, enter it, pick a weight you think is near your 5-8RM, see how many reps you can get out. Enter that weight and reps. The spreadsheet doesn the rest for you. You can leave the weighted hypers and situps out since they're not relevant to the HST workout. If you want to sub in an exercise just type it over the one it's replacing. The change should cascade down the entire worksheet.

IV - Go to the HST sheet and start ****ing around with the Daily Weight increases and the sets for each rep range. Try and do these two things as per the graphs on the right: keep weight increasing with as little zig zagging as possible; keep volume as relatively consistent as possible.

V - The HST Workout is now ready to use. Take two weeks off with NO lifting of ANY weights and then start doing the workouts, left to right, top to bottom, every other day or so.
 

Attachments

I love the idea of the 8,5,3 HST.. I think it will work out for me real nicely. I appreciate the chart and graphs man. Ive got to ask though.. do you honestly go that heavy on curls and tricep extensions? Thats really the only assistance work besides abs
 
Cass9311 said:
I love the idea of the 8,5,3 HST.. I think it will work out for me real nicely. I appreciate the chart and graphs man. Ive got to ask though.. do you honestly go that heavy on curls and tricep extensions? Thats really the only assistance work besides abs
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No, those are just test numbers in there because I had to migrate the sheet to the new Excel format. My real numbers are pathetic right now, because on my work/commute schedule I haven't lifted regularly in almost a year. Soon however, I will have the option to work from home twice a week and that will be ****ing beautiful. My work is 8-10 hours daily with a 4-5 hour commute. 5 today, since it's raining. Joy joy.
 
Haha I feel your pain man... personally I start going paranoid if its been over 4 days w/out training..
I was more talking about actual listed reps on assistance work in your program
 
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