Starting hCG monotherapy

well I recieved my copy of lab results:

Estradiol Ultrasensative - 28pg/ml (<29)
Testosterone Total - 1074ng/dl (250-1100)
Bioavailable Testosterone - 591.5ng/dl (110-575)
SHBG - 15nmol/l

Everything looks fine...so why would the doc put me on A-dex? Is the ultrasensative range different than regular e2? In otherwords, does 28 mean I'm extremely high considering the top of the range is stated at 29?

For some reason, I thought I recalled seeing way lower numbers before.

I still think that that dose of Adex is going to send you too low. Below 10, I am nearly certain. See my recent labs, which I just posted. 1 mg per week took me from way over 50 to 11.
 
For some reason, I thought I recalled seeing way lower numbers before.

I still think that that dose of Adex is going to send you too low. Below 10, I am nearly certain. See my recent labs, which I just posted. 1 mg per week took me from way over 50 to 11.

yes I had way lower numbers until the hcg kicked in and until I was upped to 300mg/gel per day.

I started at 50mg/day and no hcg and ended up with T levels of 400's and e2 in the single digits.

Well, I took 1mg this week....I guess next week Ill drop down to 1/2mg
 
well I recieved my copy of lab results:

Estradiol Ultrasensative - 28pg/ml (<29)
Testosterone Total - 1074ng/dl (250-1100)
Bioavailable Testosterone - 591.5ng/dl (110-575)
SHBG - 15nmol/l

Everything looks fine...so why would the doc put me on A-dex? Is the ultrasensative range different than regular e2? In otherwords, does 28 mean I'm extremely high considering the top of the range is stated at 29?

Those are good numbers, I think. The adex is going to increase your test even more. You probably should pull back on your Test dose a little. It's going to reduce your SHGB, which is already low, which creates some risks.

It's damn tricky to balance it all.
 
Those are good numbers, I think. The adex is going to increase your test even more. You probably should pull back on your Test dose a little. It's going to reduce your SHGB, which is already low, which creates some risks.

It's damn tricky to balance it all.

never heard of test reducing the shbg...now I do know that an AI will lower the SHBG.

Whats wrong with low SHBG? I mean doesn't that mean Ill have higher bioavailable T?
 
never heard of test reducing the shbg...now I do know that an AI will lower the SHBG.

Whats wrong with low SHBG? I mean doesn't that mean Ill have higher bioavailable T?

The most immediate problem is that it causes faster metabolization of E2 & T such that you will have wild fluctuations in levels, which is ever more problematic when your numbers are elevated as you are likely to have even greater fluctuation. With the adex, you're going to be over the ranges. Additionally, there is a risk to your skin, your hair (though it looks like you shave it, so maybe that's not a concern), among more serious health issues -- thyroid, blood sugar etc, lipid profile, osteopenia/osteoporosis. I learned this in researching elevated SHGB, as mine is on the higher side. I'm no longer concerned, based on what I read.

I don't recall you explaining whether you tested at trough levels. If your tests are based on levels closer to peak, the high T may not be an issue. But still, I would expect your TT to go up another 15%.

Hope that helps. I'd recommend a google search, so you can get a handle on the interplay. I finally understand it pretty well.
 
The most immediate problem is that it causes faster metabolization of E2 & T such that you will have wild fluctuations in levels, which is ever more problematic when your numbers are elevated as you are likely to have even greater fluctuation. With the adex, you're going to be over the ranges. Additionally, there is a risk to your skin, your hair (though it looks like you shave it, so maybe that's not a concern), among more serious health issues -- thyroid, blood sugar etc, lipid profile, osteopenia/osteoporosis. I learned this in researching elevated SHGB, as mine is on the higher side. I'm no longer concerned, based on what I read.

I don't recall you explaining whether you tested at trough levels. If your tests are based on levels closer to peak, the high T may not be an issue. But still, I would expect your TT to go up another 15%.

Hope that helps. I'd recommend a google search, so you can get a handle on the interplay. I finally understand it pretty well.

Ok, well heres what I understand so far after research.

SHBG can be good and bad. Ideally we all want a lower SHBG so that or total testosterone and all hormones are the most bioavailable. However, SHBG is responsible for how long and sustained the hormones are in your body. This must explain why the doctor advised to take 150mg morning and 150mg at night because I felt like my T was wearing off by night time.

I'm also understanding that low SHBG is a sign of insulin insensativity or oversensative insulin reponse. It seems that my SHBG is not too low to the point of serious concern. My blood glucose levels are always fine. My TSH was 1.6, my T3 was at the very top of the range. Earlier when I was on clomid for 10 weeks my SHBG shot up to the 30's.

My doc suggested that I because my SHBG is on the lower end I simply need to dose more frequently as I may metabolize hormones faster. I guess this is why some are suggesting that patients with low SHBG need to have much lower E2 levels as the estrogen is more bioavailable??


Before TRT my E2 was always extremely low, like single digits...and my TT was low like 300ng/dl. However, I still had a decent sex drive and energy to get through life. Most people with levels that low would have serious noticable issues. This must be because my SHBG is low.
 
Ok, well heres what I understand so far after research.

SHBG can be good and bad. Ideally we all want a lower SHBG so that or total testosterone and all hormones are the most bioavailable. However, SHBG is responsible for how long and sustained the hormones are in your body. This must explain why the doctor advised to take 150mg morning and 150mg at night because I felt like my T was wearing off by night time.

I'm also understanding that low SHBG is a sign of insulin insensativity or oversensative insulin reponse. It seems that my SHBG is not too low to the point of serious concern. My blood glucose levels are always fine. My TSH was 1.6, my T3 was at the very top of the range. Earlier when I was on clomid for 10 weeks my SHBG shot up to the 30's.

My doc suggested that I because my SHBG is on the lower end I simply need to dose more frequently as I may metabolize hormones faster. I guess this is why some are suggesting that patients with low SHBG need to have much lower E2 levels as the estrogen is more bioavailable??


Before TRT my E2 was always extremely low, like single digits...and my TT was low like 300ng/dl. However, I still had a decent sex drive and energy to get through life. Most people with levels that low would have serious noticable issues. This must be because my SHBG is low.

You're certainly down the right path in terms of the interplay, and it's good that you took the time to educate yourself.

But we dont all want low SHBG. We want it in the middle. And when are T, DHT, and E2 levels get higher, we want it even higher. You'll be good on the E2 side, as long as you don't take it much lower (given that SHGB will go lower). On the T side, the bioavailability of the T and the DHT could cause some problems if your T & DHT go up more, and SHGB and E2 go down even more, making the former even more bioavailable. If you drop that E2 much lower, you could harm your lipid profile and your bone strength. Low E2 is far harder on the body than high E2.

If you want to be in a highly anabolic and androgenic state, you are absolutely right about wanting very low SHGB. But you need to appreciate, E2 and SHGB are normally higher in someone with high DHT and T for a reason. It's protective.

Note, your other numbers, such as thyroid look good now, but that was before having sustained higher hormone levels, which are about to go even higher, and will place you pretty close to someone that is on cycle, albeit not a very potent one. That's fine for a cycle, but not for a lifetime, as I assume you are contemplating.

I don't think you are at any immediate risk (I'm not fear mongering), but I would suggest some caution. Maybe HAN could step in and illuminate things. Dr. Mariano has written some good things on this subject over on Meso.

Hope that helps. Happy playoffs.

P.S. Gutterpump, this is why the Zols can be dangerous, among other reasons, I assume.
 
Not to get off topic guys but i got a quick question, after each HCG shot i get very moody and pissed off, whatsup with this?
 
Not to get off topic guys but i got a quick question, after each HCG shot i get very moody and pissed off, whatsup with this?

Could be rise in testosteorne or e2
better off a placebo effect.
 
How long have you felt this way was it from day one. HCG should not be done in big shots one needs to keep it down to less then 500 IU's per day. Or you can shut down your Testis Desentize them to the LH action of HCG and you can become Primary. Most men that have this problem can just stop the HCG and let there testis come back.

Most men doing a lower shot of HCG get a feeling of well being did you ever get this feeling. And yes HCG in high dose's can drive up your Estradiol levels and this can make you feel like this.
Not to get off topic guys but i got a quick question, after each HCG shot i get very moody and pissed off, whatsup with this?
 
How long have you felt this way was it from day one. HCG should not be done in big shots one needs to keep it down to less then 500 IU's per day. Or you can shut down your Testis Desentize them to the LH action of HCG and you can become Primary. Most men that have this problem can just stop the HCG and let there testis come back.

Most men doing a lower shot of HCG get a feeling of well being did you ever get this feeling. And yes HCG in high dose's can drive up your Estradiol levels and this can make you feel like this.



The first few times i did it i felt a great sense of well being, felt great, would take a shot i would want to go out right away see some friends, now lately my testicles got smaller again and hcg just isnt doing its thing anymore, i was taking 500iu E0D, even now taking 250iu E0D is still getting me pissed off... , my body is very prone to estrogen its not even funny, 250iu even aromotizes the hell out of me, its nuts, i hope i didnt mess up my nuts for good as i was not 100% if i was primary or secondary.
 
Then your a lot like me I do a shot of HCG and at times when I am not on Enough Arimidex I feel like this 30 min's after the shot. I then know my estradiol levels are on the high side and I will take an extra dose of Arimidex. I do good taking 1/4 of a pill .25mgs. every 2 days and when I feel like this I use add .25 mgs more dose the job.

I get most of my T from my Testis using HCG so I need it and it's a small price to pay to have to take Arimidex to control Estradiol and feel this good.
The first few times i did it i felt a great sense of well being, felt great, would take a shot i would want to go out right away see some friends, now lately my testicles got smaller again and hcg just isnt doing its thing anymore, i was taking 500iu E0D, even now taking 250iu E0D is still getting me pissed off... , my body is very prone to estrogen its not even funny, 250iu even aromotizes the hell out of me, its nuts, i hope i didnt mess up my nuts for good as i was not 100% if i was primary or secondary.
 
Jinxie, without taking into account all the many variables, what is a good SHBG level ?
I'm on HRT using T-Cyp and 250 iu of hCG twice a week.
 
Subscribing to this thread - with a question.

For those on HCG long term, any issues traveling, camping, flying and carrying your supply?

I may be taking the dive soon and am interested to hear how feasible long term HCG is, and how sensitive a substance it is for travel.

Thanks for any insight.
 
get the ovitrelle by Serono. It is r-HCG (man-made/synthetic).

It comes in prefilled syringes. It is a bit more expensive, but it is much more resiliant to heat induced damage. It can be left out of the fridge for up to 30 days and still not suffer significant damage. It should be used within 30 days of being out of a refrigerated climate.

I left mine out for two months during the summer, in my room, where during the summer the high temperature is in the upper 70s, and it still tested very strongly for hcg using home prego test.



Subscribing to this thread - with a question.

For those on HCG long term, any issues traveling, camping, flying and carrying your supply?

I may be taking the dive soon and am interested to hear how feasible long term HCG is, and how sensitive a substance it is for travel.

Thanks for any insight.
 
get the ovitrelle by Serono. It is r-HCG (man-made/synthetic).

It comes in prefilled syringes. It is a bit more expensive, but it is much more resiliant to heat induced damage. It can be left out of the fridge for up to 30 days and still not suffer significant damage. It should be used within 30 days of being out of a refrigerated climate.

I left mine out for two months during the summer, in my room, where during the summer the high temperature is in the upper 70s, and it still tested very strongly for hcg using home prego test.



Subscribing to this thread - with a question.

For those on HCG long term, any issues traveling, camping, flying and carrying your supply?

I may be taking the dive soon and am interested to hear how feasible long term HCG is, and how sensitive a substance it is for travel.

Thanks for any insight.
 
I wonder if this is why ADC can sell Pre- Mixed HCG now called Hucog.
A lot of people are worried about buying this can't figure out how it is good for 1 to 2 yrs until you start to use it.
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get the ovitrelle by Serono. It is r-HCG (man-made/synthetic).

It comes in prefilled syringes. It is a bit more expensive, but it is much more resiliant to heat induced damage. It can be left out of the fridge for up to 30 days and still not suffer significant damage. It should be used within 30 days of being out of a refrigerated climate.

I left mine out for two months during the summer, in my room, where during the summer the high temperature is in the upper 70s, and it still tested very strongly for hcg using home prego test.
 
If the hCG is derived from non prego female urine, i.e. synthetic rHCG, than it would be good until expiry date, as long as refrigerated. the rHCG can go one month out of the fridge and still be legit. stuff is solid, but a bit expensive.

I wonder if this is why ADC can sell Pre- Mixed HCG now called Hucog.
A lot of people are worried about buying this can't figure out how it is good for 1 to 2 yrs until you start to use it.
Invalid Link Removed
 
I have been using Novarel for yrs. doing great on it until last Nov. I got a refill and was told by Medco that it is not a Generic anymore and my cost of my co-pay when from $16 to $46.

I did not believer Medco and called Ferring they told me they are using a new lab to make it and it is in Canada.

Will I ordered it payed the price and when I used it I got dam sick I started sweating, my BP went way up with my heart rate and I started having Panic Attacks.

The dam new Novarel is so dam strong it when right into Estradiol. But until I could figure this out I suffered bad.

It was when I did my labs and seen my Dr. that we figured this out. He has other men on Novarel and they are having the same Problem.

I was told the next lot it will be fixed I got this and it is better but not the same it is driving up my Estradiol levels big time. Even cutting my dose down from 400 IU's to 150.

Is there anyone on Novarel or anyone knows why this is going on.

HCG is very hard to find and Medco only can get Novarel so I told my Dr. about the ADC and he said try it but they changed the HCG everone uses there Hucog to a Pre-Mixed HCG. Some of the Diet people are using it and it's to soon to tell if it's good.

It sounds like it's the same as the kind your using ovitrelle.
If the hCG is derived from non prego female urine, i.e. synthetic rHCG, than it would be good until expiry date, as long as refrigerated. the rHCG can go one month out of the fridge and still be legit. stuff is solid, but a bit expensive.
 
Yeh I think that it must be some kind of r HCG. I will email customer service at some point and inquire. Either it is r HCG, or it must have a super short shelf life lol

Must be a nice alternative to Ovitrelle, that stuff hit me hard in the wallet but at least I knew I was getting a super potent product !




I have been using Novarel for yrs. doing great on it until last Nov. I got a refill and was told by Medco that it is not a Generic anymore and my cost of my co-pay when from $16 to $46.

I did not believer Medco and called Ferring they told me they are using a new lab to make it and it is in Canada.

Will I ordered it payed the price and when I used it I got dam sick I started sweating, my BP went way up with my heart rate and I started having Panic Attacks.

The dam new Novarel is so dam strong it when right into Estradiol. But until I could figure this out I suffered bad.

It was when I did my labs and seen my Dr. that we figured this out. He has other men on Novarel and they are having the same Problem.

I was told the next lot it will be fixed I got this and it is better but not the same it is driving up my Estradiol levels big time. Even cutting my dose down from 400 IU's to 150.

Is there anyone on Novarel or anyone knows why this is going on.

HCG is very hard to find and Medco only can get Novarel so I told my Dr. about the ADC and he said try it but they changed the HCG everone uses there Hucog to a Pre-Mixed HCG. Some of the Diet people are using it and it's to soon to tell if it's good.

It sounds like it's the same as the kind your using ovitrelle.
 
Does anyone using HCG long term cycle a SERM for a month every 6-12 months to give the leydig cells a break from the HCG and use some natural LH/FSH?

Not sure if it'd do any good as they'd still be getting hit with unnaturally high LH levels, but seems to me like it could help slow down any desensitization worries, or mitigate them.

Anyone had a problem with desensitization of the testes response to HCG after long term?
 
Re:

It really just depends I know when I traveled my HCG had held up.
Dude it sounds like you have done quite fair on your HCG treatment, we always find ways for improvement when we can.
 
I think it sounds like a solid idea. A SERM or an AI like femara or arimidex would probably work. I would use 1 x 2.5 mg letrozole (femara) tab per week while I was taking a break from the HCG.

I have noticed that I don't get that major boost in well being that I used too when I first started the HCG. I think that it would be a good idea for me to go on femara at 1 tab PW (2.5mg per tab) to see if I can re-sensitize myself to the HCG.


Does anyone using HCG long term cycle a SERM for a month every 6-12 months to give the leydig cells a break from the HCG and use some natural LH/FSH?

Not sure if it'd do any good as they'd still be getting hit with unnaturally high LH levels, but seems to me like it could help slow down any desensitization worries, or mitigate them.

Anyone had a problem with desensitization of the testes response to HCG after long term?
 
I think it sounds like a solid idea. A SERM or an AI like femara or arimidex would probably work. I would use 1 x 2.5 mg letrozole (femara) tab per week while I was taking a break from the HCG.

I have noticed that I don't get that major boost in well being that I used too when I first started the HCG. I think that it would be a good idea for me to go on femara at 1 tab PW (2.5mg per tab) to see if I can re-sensitize myself to the HCG.

me too.

I feel like I don't get the boost from using HCG like I once did...I only use 700iu's per week. 100iu/daily.

However, it could be that dopamine levels are falling back to a steady level after recieving a rush from the HCG when it was Newly introduced.

I do notice that new vials bring a stronger effect.
 
Here is what I figured out about my Novarel it is fine not driving up my Estradiol levels. What happened is my Arimidex is old and not working right I guess you can't stock up on it as it gets old it stops working. I was finding I needed to take 1.75 mgs per day of it to keep my Estradiol levels down. I get 90 pills for 90 days and every 90 days I refilled it and pored the new pills into a bottle on top of the older ones when the bottle was full I stopped refiling them. As I used them up and go half way down the bottle I ended up using old Arimidex it was about 1 yr. past the Exp. date.

I order some new Arimidex and just taking .25 mgs I went down to low. So if you have any old Arimidex sitting around it will lose it's half life and stop working.

Things are all good now and my HCG Novarel is fine.
 
I'm probably going to go on a hiatus from HCG for awhile. I will use letrozole at 2.5mg PW for around 2 months. Than I will cruise on nothing for awhile, and hopefully retest to see how my body is doing.

Than depending on where my levels are, I will take super low dose HCG like I have been doing for the past 3 years or so for another throw of the dice.


me too.

I feel like I don't get the boost from using HCG like I once did...I only use 700iu's per week. 100iu/daily.

However, it could be that dopamine levels are falling back to a steady level after recieving a rush from the HCG when it was Newly introduced.

I do notice that new vials bring a stronger effect.
 
My nuts aren't working the way they used to either.

I recently did a GnRH stim test. I took a large bolus dose of GnRH at 0 hour, and had by labs drawn at 12 hour.

>> >> Estradiol 42 (ref range 0-56 pg/mL)
>> >> FSH 13.7 H mIU/mL 1.4-11.2
>> >> LH 22.1 mIU/mL 1.7-8.6
>> >> Testosterone 525 ng/dL 332-896
>> >> ****DHEA 17.9 H ng/mL 1.33 – 7.78

****on the DHEA note, I was taking enormous doses of TD DHEA. I wasn't taking any of it orally. I had no idea that the homemade transdermal formula I made was so effective !
 
Interesting input regarding the HCG cycling. It does seem the leydig cells do get accustomed to the HCG after a while, and cycling with a SERM may help combat that.

I'm getting rid of my varicocele over the summer, where I'll also re-evaluate my T levels pre/post surgery. I'm definitely thinking an HCG - SERM cycle may be my first choice in some kind of T replacement if I have to go that route.
 
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