Starting hCG monotherapy

[LeanGuy]

I think its time to end this thread, for me anyway. My levels are pretty well optimized and stable now, but I'm not fully monotherapy anymore.

HCG 200iu EOD + 1/8tsp 10% T-Gel EOD + .125 adex EOD

12/01/09 Testosterone, Total 853 ng/dL [280-800]
12/01/09 Estradiol, Sensitive 24 pg/mL [3-70]
12/01/09 Progesterone 0.8 ng/mL [0.3-1.2] ** good, went down

 

[longrob]

Congrats and bet ya never thought this thread would get so long. Hope you the best, and I've learned a lot following this. Thanks to all who chimed in.
-Rob

 

[Philec48]

In one study I read (can't recall the details) Nettle Root extract taken together with Saw Palmetto worked as well as Proscar in reducing enlarged prostate.

Here is a good link about DHT going over the top of the range is not all that bad some men do there best over the top of the range. It's when you get 3 x's above it and it starts on your prostate that it can become a problem.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

I'm sorry to hear it didn't work for you, but I'm glad this protocol does the trick.

You had a great thread, filled with informative debate and discussion. Best of luck!

I think its time to end this thread, for me anyway. My levels are pretty well optimized and stable now, but I'm not fully monotherapy anymore.

HCG 200iu EOD + 1/8tsp 10% T-Gel EOD + .125 adex EOD

12/01/09 Testosterone, Total 853 ng/dL [280-800]
12/01/09 Estradiol, Sensitive 24 pg/mL [3-70]
12/01/09 Progesterone 0.8 ng/mL [0.3-1.2] ** good, went down

 

[LeanGuy]

Thanks everyone for your valuable input!

 

[jinxie]

Thanks everyone for your valuable input!

Solid, Lean Guy. Rock Steady. Hope you've got your groove back for your old lady, the hottie that she is.

 

[LeanGuy]

Solid, Lean Guy. Rock Steady. Hope you've got your groove back for your old lady, the hottie that she is.

LOL yeah I am feeling better every day... and the wife is noticing too. Now I just need to tune up the thyroid & adrenals to really feel 18 again!!

 

[thenxtgrt1]

Good stuff LG..I'm glad your protocol is working.

With more guys gravitating to HCG mono, I've got a feeling this thread will stay alive.

 

[p0fell0w]

for some reason my dr is against prescribing me HCG..is there anything i can print out and show him so he will change his mind? or do i need to go to a new dr?

 

[pmgamer18]

Go to Dr. John's site and read TRT: A Recipe for Success and his HCG Update. Invalid Link Removed and this link supports what he says.
Invalid Link Removed
The following it a cut and paste of a reply he did to me to help get my Dr. to let me try HCG.
=====================================
He probably feels that since you suffer primary hypogonadism (I am guessing) there is no use in adding HCG to your protocol. There are several reasons why this is not so. First, you have not lost all Leydig cells, so any HCG you take will stimulate those who still function to produce endogenous testosterone.

This will support testicular size. We should not ignore this aesthetic consideration.

Next, if he reads my work, he will learn that HPTA-suppressed (as all TRT patients are to some extent) also suffer decreased pregenenolone levels, which is the first step after CHOL in all three hormonal pathways which begin with CHOL. HCG increases pregnenolone production, and therefore restores a more natural balance of our hormones.

Next, nearly all TRT patients who add in HCG to their regimens report an increased sense of well-being and also libido. These are genuine quality of life issues.

Finally, I just instinctively do not want all those LH receptors (including those we have yet to discover and appreciate) unstimulated.
=====================================
After my Dr. read the above he let try HCG after doing 500 IU's 3x's a weeks we did labs after the 15th. shot and my levels doubled. This told us I am not Primary but I am Secondary or Hypopituitary now we treat all the hormones I am low normal for and I finely now feel better after 27 yrs of just being on TRT and not doing well.

for some reason my dr is against prescribing me HCG..is there anything i can print out and show him so he will change his mind? or do i need to go to a new dr?

 

[gg4775]

Hi Guys

i found this thread by googling the topic and joined the sight.

Im completly new to this and lookig for some advice this entire post has been awsome and learned alot already.

i first found out about HRT by toying around on the internet i found this site
sorry i had to remove the link since this is my first post but if you google this name you'll find the site for anyone curious his name is below
Dr. Abraham Kryger, MD, DMD
1084 Cass Street
Monterey, CA 93940
Phone: (831) 373-4406
Hey Colkurtz i remeber in the beggining of the post you mentioned you started with a DR online that gave topical T is this the same DR just curious
he seems to soly use his propietary topical testocreme and claims it to be the strongest 10% and no injections of HCD. i know i have to first test my blood for T levels etc...that will be my first start....SO MY 1ST QUESTION WHAT TEST IS BEST FOR THAT? i remeber someone quoting a quest test number

little history about me i have never had my levels tested and never taken anything except OTC supps im 34 163lb and have been lifiting for 15yrs. im noticing some tell tale signs of low T. non consistent morning wood and not as potent as i would like errections, lower libido etc...plus not to mention not the gains i want at the gym.

my diet is pretty solid 5-6 meals a day 30-40 grams protein same carbs etc....
i work out hard 5-6 days week

im looking to get my t levels like lean guy i think i'll make some solid gains with my T levesl in this range.

im currently trying to find a DR that my primary DR can consult with this way i can try to get HRT covered by my ins.

any suggestions would be great. i found DR Shippin info hes about 2 hours from me but i heard hes not taking any new patients. i calledthe office and left a message on his voice mail.

i guess like mentioned above i need those tests b4 any suggestions can be made. so any specific info on the type of test would be appreciated as well as any other info

 

[colkurtz_spf]

No, it was a different doctor.

Hi Guys

i found this thread by googling the topic and joined the sight.

Im completly new to this and lookig for some advice this entire post has been awsome and learned alot already.

i first found out about HRT by toying around on the internet i found this site
sorry i had to remove the link since this is my first post but if you google this name you'll find the site for anyone curious his name is below
Dr. Abraham Kryger, MD, DMD
1084 Cass Street
Monterey, CA 93940
Phone: (831) 373-4406
Hey Colkurtz i remeber in the beggining of the post you mentioned you started with a DR online that gave topical T is this the same DR just curious
he seems to soly use his propietary topical testocreme and claims it to be the strongest 10% and no injections of HCD. i know i have to first test my blood for T levels etc...that will be my first start....SO MY 1ST QUESTION WHAT TEST IS BEST FOR THAT? i remeber someone quoting a quest test number

little history about me i have never had my levels tested and never taken anything except OTC supps im 34 163lb and have been lifiting for 15yrs. im noticing some tell tale signs of low T. non consistent morning wood and not as potent as i would like errections, lower libido etc...plus not to mention not the gains i want at the gym.

my diet is pretty solid 5-6 meals a day 30-40 grams protein same carbs etc....
i work out hard 5-6 days week

im looking to get my t levels like lean guy i think i'll make some solid gains with my T levesl in this range.

im currently trying to find a DR that my primary DR can consult with this way i can try to get HRT covered by my ins.

any suggestions would be great. i found DR Shippin info hes about 2 hours from me but i heard hes not taking any new patients. i calledthe office and left a message on his voice mail.

i guess like mentioned above i need those tests b4 any suggestions can be made. so any specific info on the type of test would be appreciated as well as any other info

 

[p0fell0w]

went to my dr and requested my medical history and i have offically been diagnosed with hypogonadism. Its secondary, so i printed this article off and asked the receptionist to please give it to the dr. Hopefully when he reads this he will understand that HcG is a treatment for my condition.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter 2 – HCG and Dr. Shippen’s Protocol


Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) is a hormone found in men and women. Women secrete large amounts of HCG during pregnancy and men secrete large amounts during puberty.

HCG is administered as a form of TRT. HCG is an alternative to standard TRT in men with low LH and FSH (i.e., secondary hypogonadism). To determine if you are a candidate for HCG you must have a blood test showing low T, LH and FSH. This blood test cannot be taken while you're on standard TRT because standard TRT shuts down LH and FSH production and thereby distorts the test results. Alternatively, a Clomid Stimulation Test can also demonstrate secondary hypogonadism (see Chapter 3).

Rather than shutting down your body's natural T production system (like standard TRT does), HCG stimulates it back towards normal function. Your body produces it's own T. I believe that HCG is vastly superior to standard forms of TRT for the following reasons:

1. Better mimics the body's own natural physiologic rhythm of T production.

2. Easier to maintain normal T levels when administered properly.

3. More physiologic T levels minimize excess estradiol production (i.e., reduces aromatization).

4. Maintains normal size of testicles (in contrast, standard TRT shrinks the testicles).

5. Stimulates sperm production (thereby increasing/restoring fertility). In contrast, standard TRT reduces, if not eliminates, sperm production thereby making you infertile.

6. Restores normal function to testicles - the benefits of normal testicular function are not fully known. In his book "Saw Palmetto: Nature's Prostate Healer", Ray Sahelian, M.D. says that the testicles and the prostate exchange enzymes. I don't know what purpose these enzymes serve, but I'd rather have them working than not working.

The only disadvantage of HCG is that doctors are unaware of this excellent alternative.

Doctors are usually down on what they are not up on. If you ask about HCG, many doctors will give you a variety of lame, ill-conceived reasons for not prescribing HCG. These excuses all add up to the fact that they don't know how to administer it properly and don't want to take the time to learn. I wonder what percentage of doctors would take the time to learn about HCG if they were diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism?

Typical excuses for not prescribing HCG are (1) that the insurance company won't pay for it and (2) it's expensive. Both are absolutely false. Most insurance companies pay for it (if the doctor clearly states in writing that it's for hypogonadism only) and it 's cheaper than most standard forms of TRT.

The current guidelines of the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists (AACE) indicate that HCG should only be prescribed when a man is interested in fertility. As a result, most doctors will not prescribe HCG unless you tell them you are currently trying to have children. The AACE guidelines can be found at:

Invalid Link Removed

These guidelines (written in 1996 and updated in 2002) are considered outdated by many practitioners with respect to HCG therapy for the following reasons:

1. The guidelines call for intramuscular HCG injections. Subcutaneous injections are much more convenient, much less painful and equally effective (see discussion below and/or just ask the many men who inject HCG subcutaneously or look at their blood test results).

2. The excessive HCG dosage levels suggested in the guidelines cause a variety of problems as discussed throughout this primer. In particular, excessive HCG dosages cause elevated estradiol (E2), which defeats many of the positive effects of increased T.

3. The guidelines cite expense and inconvenience as the reasons why one wouldn't use HCG otherwise. Aren't those my judgements to make? Of course they are! The funny thing is, if I were injecting 2000 to 6000 IU per week intramuscularly, I too would consider HCG therapy expensive and inconvenient, but also ineffective (due to E2 overload). Duh?! But instead, I inject 410 IU/week subcutaneously and find it to be inexpensive, convenient and highly effective.

Unfortunately, doctors are unwilling to stray too far from their professional guidelines. Also, they are unwilling to devote the amount of time to each patient required for effective HCG therapy monitoring and education. That's just human nature. But we're talking about our health and future here! Think for yourself and you will see the fallacies in these doctors' arguments against it.

Each day more and more doctors are becoming more and more aware of the benefits of HCG. In his landmark book, The Testosterone Syndrome, Dr. Eugene Shippen makes a strong case for HCG as an alternative to standard TRT in cases of secondary hypogonadism. This book is considered by many as the definitive book on TRT.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of doctors are woefully ignorant about the proper dosage for HCG. In fact, the AACE clinical guidelines call for HCG dosages of 1000 to 2000 IU, two or three times a week. Scientific studies have demonstrated that HCG dosage levels of about 5,000 IU per week or more administered long-term cause permanent damage to the testicles (see Medline articles 6210708 and 3583230). These studies have shown that such excessive HCG dosages taken long-term result in testicular desensitization (to future stimulation by LH or HCG). In other words, long-term, such excessive dosages of HCG will result in primary hypogonadism!

Also, the AACE guidelines call for intramuscular injections when scientific studies show that subcutaneous injections work equally as well (see Medline article 8075787). My experience as well as hundreds of other men's experience proves this point. Subcutaneous injections are much easier to administer and far less painful than intramuscular injections.

I use and recommend Dr. Shippen's HCG protocol. Dr. Shippen's protocol calls for low dose shots (about 300 to 500 IU) at bedtime, 2 to 5 times a week depending upon your responsiveness. This protocol more closely mimics the body's natural physiologic rhythm of LH production. (Note: Effective April, 2005 I switched to nightly HCG shots of 65 IU/night)

Below is a copy of Dr. Eugene Shippen's HCG protocol that he emailed to me on 3/17/01. If you are interested in HCG therapy, I suggest that you show this protocol to your doctor. If your doctor has any questions, he/she should contact Dr. Shippen.

Prior to HCG therapy, Shippen gave me a Clomid Stimulation test to rule out any hypothalamus/pituitary issues such as tumors, etc. My response to this test was good. He then put me on Selegiline, which raised my T, but not enough for me.

HCG is available in shots only. It is self-administered at bedtime using the smallest of needles (0.5 cc, 31 gauge, 5/16"). Shots are simple and virtually painless.

*****************************
Dr. Shippen’s HCG Protocol (circa March 2001)

Chorionic Gonadotrophin Stimulation Test (males < 75 years old)*

Chorionic Gonadotrophin is presently available through most pharmacies or distributors as Profasi, Pregnyl or generic Chorionic Gonadotrophin 10,000 units per 10 cc vial. Various stimulation tests have been described, from high dose, short course testing to more normal physiologic doses over a longer time period. I have found that a typical treatment course for three weeks is best for determining those individuals who will respond well to this type of treatment. It is administered by injection 500 units (0.5 cc) SQ, Monday through Friday for three weeks. Teach patient to self administer with 50 Unit Insulin Syringes with 30 gauge needles in anterior thigh, seated with both hands free to perform the injection. Measure: Testosterone, total and free, plus E2 before starting CG and on the third Saturday AM after 3 weeks of stimulation (salivary testing may be more accurate for adjusting doses). Studies have shown that SQ is equal in efficacy to IM administration.

Results:

1. <20% rise suggests poor testicular reserve of leydig cell function (primary hypo-gonadism or eu-gonadotrophic hypo-gonadism indicating combined central and peripheral factors).

2. 20-50% increase indicates adequate reserve but slightly depressed response, mostly central inhibition but possibly decreased testicular response as well.

3. > 50% increase suggests primarily centrally mediated depression of testicular function.

Options for treatment vary both with the response to CG and patient determined choices.

1. If there is an inadequate response (< 20%), then replacement with testosterone will be indicated.

2. The area in between 20-50% will usually require CG boosting for a period of time, plus natural boosting or "partial" replacement options. I believe that full replacement with exogenous testosterone is always the last option in borderline cases since improvement over time may frequently occur as leydig cell regeneration may actually happen. Much of this is age dependent. Up to age 60, boosting is almost always successful. 60-75 is variable, but will usually be clear by the results of the stimulation test. Also, disease related depression of testosterone output might be reversible with adequate treatment of the underlying process (depression, AMI, obesity, alcohol, deficiency, etc.) This positive effect will not occur if suppressive therapy is instituted in the form of full replacement.

3. If there is an adequate response, >50% rise in testosterone, there is very good leydig cell reserve. Natural boosting or CG therapy will probably be successful in restoring full testosterone output without replacement, a better option over the long term and a more natural restoration of biologic fluctuations for optimal response.

4. Chorionic Gonadotrophin can be self-administered and adjusted according to response. In younger, high output responders (T > 1100ng/dl), CG can be given every third or fourth day at bedtime or in the AM. This also minimizes estrogen conversion. In lower level responders(600-800ng/dl), or those with a higher E2 output associated with full dose CG, 300-500 units can be given Mon-Wed-Fri. At times, sluggish responders may require a higher dose to achieve full Testosterone response. In these cases, the diluent is lowered to 7.5cc or even to 5 cc, which increases the CG concentration 1 ½ - 2 X. This can be administered in variable doses 0.3 - 0.5cc given every 3rd day. Check salivary levels on the day of the next injection, but before the next injection to determine effectiveness and to adjust the dose accordingly. Keep in mind that later as leydig cell restoration occurs, a reduction in dose or frequency of administration may be later needed.

5. Monitor both Testosterone and E2 levels to assess response to treatment after 2 - 3 weeks after change in dose of CG as well as periodic intervals during chronic administration. Sublingual testing is very easy and cost effective. It will also better reflect the true free levels of both estrogens and testosterone. (Pharmasan Labs 888-342-7272 is very good)

6. Adjustment of dosage is a result of symptomatic response and hormone level boosting. It is based on clinical judgement as much as actual hormone levels. Remember that "Normal" ranges are for populations, not individuals!

7. Except for reports of antibodies developing against CG (I have not seen this), there are no adverse effects of chronic CG administration. An additional benefit is the boosting of Growth Hormone output which has also been reported, either as a direct effect of CG or as an effect of increased levels of testosterone.

*Protocol adapted from "The Testosterone Syndrome" by Eugene Shippen, M. D. (M Evans and Co, NY 1998).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[pmgamer18]

I am also secondary the thing is it took me 23 yrs to figure this out I have been sick 27 yrs the last 5 yrs I have added HCG to my T shots this is how we figured out I am Secondary Hypopituitary. Now I am treating all my low normal levels of hormones. Cotridol, Thyroid, Aldosterone, Ferritin and just started Growth Hormones. I pray your not having to go down that long hard road I had to go down. I have been helping men on the forums with low T so they don't have to be on this dam road with Dr.'s not in the know. I am just getting over heart bypass sugary it's been a yr. now. It all when bad I was out cold 17 weeks and my Heart Dr. told me he feels whats wrong with my heart was do to being so low on Growth Hormones for so long. Here is a link to my story and the Heart update.
Invalid Link Removed

Anything I can do to help just ask you do need to keep on top of all your hormones if some come in low normal don't let a Dr. tell you your fine your in range this is Bull.

I did not do well on just HCG and most of the men I know that have a pituitary problem don't do well on just HCG.

 

[CubbieBlue]

I have been on 2,000 IU 2x per week hCG with .5 adex 3 x per week for the past month. I am getting blood work done this coming Monday. I will post results for those interested. My baseline t levels were around 200-400.

 

[monsterbox]

do you guys notice any effects 2hrs after sub-q shots?

I take 100iu/day and 1-2hrs after every shot I get really relaxed and sleepy..it feels good so I shoot it at night.

 

[jinxie]

do you guys notice any effects 2hrs after sub-q shots?

I take 100iu/day and 1-2hrs after every shot I get really relaxed and sleepy..it feels good so I shoot it at night.

FWIW, you are not alone, though I feel nothing like this, and never have.

 

[pmgamer18]

I get a feeling of well being after my HCG shot but I don't do them subQ I do them IM into my thigh. I feel the shot in about 30 min.'s doing them IM I don't feel it for about 6 to 10 hrs.

I still wake up at 5am so I do my shots then and go back to bed this way when I get up I feel great. And sex is great in the morning after an HCG shot.

They say this feeling of well being is from your Cortisol levels going up HCG will make the go up. So I tested my Cortosol levels and found I was very low.

 

[monsterbox]

I get a feeling of well being after my HCG shot but I don't do them subQ I do them IM into my thigh. I feel the shot in about 30 min.'s doing them IM I don't feel it for about 6 to 10 hrs.

I still wake up at 5am so I do my shots then and go back to bed this way when I get up I feel great. And sex is great in the morning after an HCG shot.

They say this feeling of well being is from your Cortisol levels going up HCG will make the go up. So I tested my Cortosol levels and found I was very low.

I've been having alot of stress/anxiety the past year. Sometimes after a hardworkout and usually late at night I get really really stressed feeling for no reason. Theres nothing logically in my mind to stress about yet my body feels like its in overdrive with racing thoughts and such. The TRT gel helps alot to alleviate this...whenever I apply the gel I feel it go away, but the HCG is absolutely phenominal. After every shot, exactly 1-2hrs later I get extremely relaxed and calm, in a great laughing mood, appetite, and could fall asleep if need be.

So does this suggests I may have too-low of cortisol levels? Perhaphs the TRT is suppressing my cortisol further, and the HCG is helping?

 

[pmgamer18]

It did in my case first thing when I add HCG after being on TRT 23 yrs now it's 27 yrs. I did 500 IU's 3x's a week and did 150 mgs of Depo T shots. After the 15th. shot of HCG we did labs and my Total T went from 600 to 1200. All them yrs I was told I am Primary meaning my Testis don't work. And they were dam small the size of small grapes.

Well this told me I am not Primary but I am Secondary my Testis work they just don't get told to work. I had an MRI on my Pituitary it show nothing wrong. But my labs over the yrs. were screming a Pituitary problem.

I had all kinds of tests done one was an ACTH Stim. test this showed me to be Secondary and that my Cortisol levels are low yet the test after 30 min.s' my Cortisol levels went up 3x's what is was before the test. So my adrenals don't get told to work.

A good way to test this your self is to get a 4x's in a day Saliva test read this link it's all in there.
Invalid Link Removed

And if your low in this link is a FAQ's about Adreanls I helped make it's full of info on testing treating and stress dosing.

I've been having alot of stress/anxiety the past year. Sometimes after a hardworkout and usually late at night I get really really stressed feeling for no reason. Theres nothing logically in my mind to stress about yet my body feels like its in overdrive with racing thoughts and such. The TRT gel helps alot to alleviate this...whenever I apply the gel I feel it go away, but the HCG is absolutely phenominal. After every shot, exactly 1-2hrs later I get extremely relaxed and calm, in a great laughing mood, appetite, and could fall asleep if need be.

So does this suggests I may have too-low of cortisol levels? Perhaphs the TRT is suppressing my cortisol further, and the HCG is helping?

 

[kritikos]

Got my doc to try a script for hCG today. And it's even compunded like I wanted... 10,000iu for $70.

Going to be taking 250iu E3D and increase if necessary, depending on labs. He didn't want to give any adex yet because my E2 runs low anyway. I'll post my progress in this thread.

Jansz, you probably want to shake my hand

in my country greece you can get hcg pregnyl 3X5000iu only 10 euros! and steroids deca testosterone very cheap..

 

[jinxie]

I've been having alot of stress/anxiety the past year. Sometimes after a hardworkout and usually late at night I get really really stressed feeling for no reason. Theres nothing logically in my mind to stress about yet my body feels like its in overdrive with racing thoughts and such. The TRT gel helps alot to alleviate this...whenever I apply the gel I feel it go away, but the HCG is absolutely phenominal. After every shot, exactly 1-2hrs later I get extremely relaxed and calm, in a great laughing mood, appetite, and could fall asleep if need be.

So does this suggests I may have too-low of cortisol levels? Perhaphs the TRT is suppressing my cortisol further, and the HCG is helping?

(1) "After a workout." Working out causes a stress response. Good sleep hygiene dictates that you don't workout within 3-4 hours of going to sleep, as it amps you up.

(2) Examine what you are ingesting prior to your workout. I suspect you may be taking something that amps you up. Most of the pre-workout drinks these days do.

(3) If you suffer from an adrenal condition, your circadian rhythm may be upside down, and your body may be producing the most cortisol at the time you go to bed, which can agitate you. Alternatively, you could be producing excess NE, which can also cause anxiety.

You may want to consult with HAN/Matrix/Shaun.

 

[monsterbox]

(1) "After a workout." Working out causes a stress response. Good sleep hygiene dictates that you don't workout within 3-4 hours of going to sleep, as it amps you up.

(2) Examine what you are ingesting prior to your workout. I suspect you may be taking something that amps you up. Most of the pre-workout drinks these days do.

(3) If you suffer from an adrenal condition, your circadian rhythm may be upside down, and your body may be producing the most cortisol at the time you go to bed, which can agitate you. Alternatively, you could be producing excess NE, which can also cause anxiety.

You may want to consult with HAN/Matrix/Shaun.

I normally workout around 4pm..eat dinner around 6, eat another meal around 7:30 and prepare to sleep by 10-11pm. Thats more than six hours after a workout.

Immediately after my workout I feel relaxed, calm, and collected. After 1-2 hrs I start feeling the stress come on. The longer I stay awake after my workout the worse it gets. If I do not fall asleep by 10-11 i'm screwed. By 2 oclock I start getting heart palpitations/anxiety etc....when I finally fall asleep, everything resets and I feel awesome in the morning. I can literally feel my mood/well being decrease by the hour following workouts. Now that I've switched my HCG to night time shots before bed, its helped a great deal. This must mean i have low cortisol...but I thought low cortisol causes extreme fatigue..I have the opposite.

 

[jinxie]

I normally workout around 4pm..eat dinner around 6, eat another meal around 7:30 and prepare to sleep by 10-11pm. Thats more than six hours after a workout.

Immediately after my workout I feel relaxed, calm, and collected. After 1-2 hrs I start feeling the stress come on. The longer I stay awake after my workout the worse it gets. If I do not fall asleep by 10-11 i'm screwed. By 2 oclock I start getting heart palpitations/anxiety etc....when I finally fall asleep, everything resets and I feel awesome in the morning. I can literally feel my mood/well being decrease by the hour following workouts. Now that I've switched my HCG to night time shots before bed, its helped a great deal. This must mean i have low cortisol...but I thought low cortisol causes extreme fatigue..I have the opposite.

That's good hygiene. But I would not infer that you have low cortisol. You could just be upside down in terms of your rhythm. Then again, the fact that you feel well in the morning doesn't support that thesis -- if you were extremely low in cortisol in the morning, you'd feel crappy.

The night time issue you are relating does suggest an adrenal condition. It sounds like excessive NE, and according to some, such as Dr. Mariano, a small dose of Cortef (or Isocort) could help out to neutralize the NE. Before going there, I suggest something gabaergic. If that doesn't work, a small-dose of a beta blocker with a short half-life would make sense. If you haven't tried melatonin, it's worth a try.

It sounds like the hCG only helps the evening of the shot. That, I don't understand. But hell, if it works, try nightly shots, in smaller doses. It can't hurt. Also, you may want to step up cardio, if you aren't already.

Good luck.

 

[pmgamer18]

I was told adding HCG makes your Cortisol levels go up a little this is why some men get this feeling of well being in AF we don't sleep good because of the following from this link.
Invalid Link Removed
=====================================
Adrenal insufficiency is linked to insomnia in two ways.

If your cortisol drops too low during the night your blood sugar drops too. Your body compensate by releasing adrenaline as an emergency measure to mobilize more sugar. This has the effect of waking you in an instant. This can be reduced by eating high protein snack before retiring e.g. sardines, nuts of high quality protein shake.
In early stages of adrenal fatigue cortisol levels tend to rise and if they are high at midnight they can energise you and keep you awake. Phosphorylated serine can be used to lower cortisol at these times due to its ACTH dampening effect.

That's good hygiene. But I would not infer that you have low cortisol. You could just be upside down in terms of your rhythm. Then again, the fact that you feel well in the morning doesn't support that thesis -- if you were extremely low in cortisol in the morning, you'd feel crappy.

The night time issue you are relating does suggest an adrenal condition. It sounds like excessive NE, and according to some, such as Dr. Mariano, a small dose of Cortef (or Isocort) could help out to neutralize the NE. Before going there, I suggest something gabaergic. If that doesn't work, a small-dose of a beta blocker with a short half-life would make sense. If you haven't tried melatonin, it's worth a try.

It sounds like the hCG only helps the evening of the shot. That, I don't understand. But hell, if it works, try nightly shots, in smaller doses. It can't hurt. Also, you may want to step up cardio, if you aren't already.

Good luck.

 

[talkitron]

HCG and High Progesterone

Can someone help me out here? I have been suffering from decreased libido recently, after being on HCG monotherapy for 1.5 years. I was taking 250IU EOD and now I take 130IU ED.

I took a 24-hour urine panel and I am quite high on the following

Testosterone 100 (45-85 normal)
DHT 14 (0-13)
Androstenedione 84 (0-50)
DHEA 4754 (5-1476)
Etiocholanolone 5512 (689-3252)
OHET 1323 (134-1186)
Pregnanediol 899 (32-501)
THB 275 (32-238)
THF 3265 (942-2800)

Clearly I respond to HCG as I have high testosterone.

I am most worried about the high Pregnanediol, as this is a marker for Progesterone. I worry high Progesterone can be feminizing.

Can anyone give me advice on how to proceed? What should I do to help the decreased libido?

 

[LeanGuy]

I am most worried about the high Pregnanediol, as this is a marker for Progesterone. I worry high Progesterone can be feminizing.

Can anyone give me advice on how to proceed? What should I do to help the decreased libido?

Check serum progesterone and estradiol (sensitive or ultrasensitive)

 

[pmgamer18]

Sounds to me like your Estradiol levels are going up high everyone on TRT of HCG only needs to check this and keep it at about 20 pg/ml.

I don't like 24hrs Urine for Hormones been doing fine getting Blood labs 27 yrs is Dr. John your Dr.

 

[monsterbox]

Sounds to me like your Estradiol levels are going up high everyone on TRT of HCG only needs to check this and keep it at about 20 pg/ml.

I don't like 24hrs Urine for Hormones been doing fine getting Blood labs 27 yrs is Dr. John your Dr.

Well I'm on HCG+TRT. I just talked to Dr. J today....follow up labs show high E2 of 30. My T remained at 858 despite raising my T-gel from 200 to 300mg.

He believes the high E2 could contribute to the anxiety in the evenings. He suggested with levels above 30 you should be watching oprah with a tissue box on hand. I'm now thinking the HCG makes me relaxed because the progesterone is counteracting the estrogen.

So, I'm now on .5mg of A-dex daily. Its just funny how I dont have any other signs of high E2 like nipples etc..

 

[talkitron]

Check serum progesterone and estradiol (sensitive or ultrasensitive)

Thanks for the reply LeanGuy. The E2/estradiol on the urine panel is 2.5 out of a "normal" range of 0-7.

The lab report writes, "Progesterone is normally not detectable in urine. The level of its major metabolite, i.e. pregnanediol, reflects progesterone homeostasis."

Anyway, the finding of high pregnanediol (899, above the "normal" range of 32-501) probably reflects high progesterone.

So I have within-range E2 but high progesterone, presumably. What would you suggest I do?

 

[jinxie]

Well I'm on HCG+TRT. I just talked to Dr. J today....follow up labs show high E2 of 30. My T remained at 858 despite raising my T-gel from 200 to 300mg.

He believes the high E2 could contribute to the anxiety in the evenings. He suggested with levels above 30 you should be watching oprah with a tissue box on hand. I'm now thinking the HCG makes me relaxed because the progesterone is counteracting the estrogen.

So, I'm now on .5mg of A-dex daily. Its just funny how I dont have any other signs of high E2 like nipples etc..

That dose of adex will likely drop your E2 too low, like below 10. And I would also expect it to screw your lipid profile and dry out your joints bigtime.

When my E2 was around 80, 1.75mgs per week (50% of your dose), took me to 20 in a few weeks. I really dont think E2 of 30 is causing all these issues. That's normal for your test levels.

That said, Dr. C knows plenty more than me.

 

[pmgamer18]

Dr. J is the best but I need to tell you .5 mgs is a strong dose and I feel you can fall so dam fast you will miss the sweet spot this is what I call the sweet spot. Having involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep so use this to gage how your doing. I would have told you to start with .25 mgs evern 2 days you will come down slower but you will not fall so fast your miss the wood.
Here is what I tell men on Arimidex so they don't go to low.
==================================
What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.


===================================
This is what Chilln does so he can take it everyday this is the best way to do it.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Most compounding pharmacies will require a prescription from a doctor, before they do this.

Once your prescription says "300 caps x 0.1mg" or "600 caps x 0.05mg" anastrozole "from 1 to 4 daily", (anastrozole = generic arimidex) then they will compound your arimidex, or generic anastrozole, and they will usually supply the arimidex as compounded into the caps you require.

My compounding pharmacist was prepared to allow me to supply the arimidex too. If you have several boxes of arimidex in your cupboard, then you may want to ask your pharmacist to do this for you.

If you don't have any arimidex stores, then just let the compounding pharmacy supply the whole lot.

###

A pack of 30 tabs of 1.0mg arimidex will give 300 caps at 0.1mg-per-cap, or 600 caps at 0.05mg-per-cap.

So if your pharmacy chooses to supply arimidex as opposed to generic anastrozole, then your pharmacy will most likely not agree to only charge you for a half-a-box of arimidex, and most likely they'll charge for a whole box, even if your prescription says 300 caps at 0.05mg-per-cap (total of 15mg)

.

Well I'm on HCG+TRT. I just talked to Dr. J today....follow up labs show high E2 of 30. My T remained at 858 despite raising my T-gel from 200 to 300mg.

He believes the high E2 could contribute to the anxiety in the evenings. He suggested with levels above 30 you should be watching oprah with a tissue box on hand. I'm now thinking the HCG makes me relaxed because the progesterone is counteracting the estrogen.

So, I'm now on .5mg of A-dex daily. Its just funny how I dont have any other signs of high E2 like nipples etc..

 

[monsterbox]

Dr. J is the best but I need to tell you .5 mgs is a strong dose and I feel you can fall so dam fast you will miss the sweet spot this is what I call the sweet spot. Having involuntary nocturnal erections that appear during REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep so use this to gage how your doing. I would have told you to start with .25 mgs evern 2 days you will come down slower but you will not fall so fast your miss the wood.
Here is what I tell men on Arimidex so they don't go to low.
==================================
What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.


===================================
This is what Chilln does so he can take it everyday this is the best way to do it.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Most compounding pharmacies will require a prescription from a doctor, before they do this.

Once your prescription says "300 caps x 0.1mg" or "600 caps x 0.05mg" anastrozole "from 1 to 4 daily", (anastrozole = generic arimidex) then they will compound your arimidex, or generic anastrozole, and they will usually supply the arimidex as compounded into the caps you require.

My compounding pharmacist was prepared to allow me to supply the arimidex too. If you have several boxes of arimidex in your cupboard, then you may want to ask your pharmacist to do this for you.

If you don't have any arimidex stores, then just let the compounding pharmacy supply the whole lot.

###

A pack of 30 tabs of 1.0mg arimidex will give 300 caps at 0.1mg-per-cap, or 600 caps at 0.05mg-per-cap.

So if your pharmacy chooses to supply arimidex as opposed to generic anastrozole, then your pharmacy will most likely not agree to only charge you for a half-a-box of arimidex, and most likely they'll charge for a whole box, even if your prescription says 300 caps at 0.05mg-per-cap (total of 15mg)

.

Wow, thanks for you time man.

Yes, I too don't understand Dr.J. Its just not making sense. My wood has been profound throughout the day and night. I've had amazing sex drive. 30 does not seem that high considering the T to E ratio. It really doesn't seem like estradiol is the issue. And yes... 1/2mg seems like WAY to much. I'm going to do it .25mg regardless of what he says. I just don't understand his logic with starting out so high with E2 levels of only 30. Maybe the range is different (quest diagnostics). I will have the lab reports faxed too me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I took .5mg yesterday for the first time and felt a drop of water weight after a few hours. However, I had a terrible night again. Felt great all day, laid down to go to sleep and my anxiety kicked in full blast like never before. Managed to sleep terribly and in the morning I applied the T-gel and BAM gone 100% within 1 hour!! Sounds to me like something all together different.

 

[Gutterpump]

I have no idea how people are getting away with such low doses of arimidex. When on 3x per week shots, I was taking almost 1mg per day (with good morning wood), and now on t-cream I am taking .5mg almost ed (5-6 times per week) also with solid wood.

 

[pmgamer18]

I think I know why just remember him saying it take 5 weeks for Arimidex to normalize in your body still if you have good wood and lose it your going to low.

Wow, thanks for you time man.

Yes, I too don't understand Dr.J. Its just not making sense. My wood has been profound throughout the day and night. I've had amazing sex drive. 30 does not seem that high considering the T to E ratio. It really doesn't seem like estradiol is the issue. And yes... 1/2mg seems like WAY to much. I'm going to do it .25mg regardless of what he says. I just don't understand his logic with starting out so high with E2 levels of only 30. Maybe the range is different (quest diagnostics). I will have the lab reports faxed too me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I took .5mg yesterday for the first time and felt a drop of water weight after a few hours. However, I had a terrible night again. Felt great all day, laid down to go to sleep and my anxiety kicked in full blast like never before. Managed to sleep terribly and in the morning I applied the T-gel and BAM gone 100% within 1 hour!! Sounds to me like something all together different.

 

[pmgamer18]

I do my T shots every 3 days and I do HCG the 2 days each in between doing this keeps me leveled and holds down my E2 levels. I eat up the T as fast as I take it. I just am coming off taking DHEA I was in the normal range for it but the Dr. said everyone needs it so I was doing 25mgs a day after about 4 weeks my .25mgs of Arimidex every 2 days was not enough I went very high and when this happens to me I get Panic Attacks. This started 2 weeks ago and I was up to 1mg. a day too keep the panic feelings down. I was still having wood so I knew I was not on too much. About a week after this happened I had to see my Dr. to go over labs.

My DHEA-S went up 3x's above the top of the range and my DHT went from mid range to 2x's over the top of the range. My E2 on 1mgs at the time if labs was double where I keep 30 I have a lower SHBG and keep my E2 at about 15.

I told Hardasnails about this his nick her is Matrax I think. He had the same problem when I told him what the DHEA did to me. Now we both are off the DHEA and things are getting back to normal. I am now only doing .5mgs every other day gaging by my wood.

So if your on DHEA and don't need it it will convert into E2 Big time.

I have no idea how people are getting away with such low doses of arimidex. When on 3x per week shots, I was taking almost 1mg per day (with good morning wood), and now on t-cream I am taking .5mg almost ed (5-6 times per week) also with solid wood.

 

[monsterbox]

I do my T shots every 3 days and I do HCG the 2 days each in between doing this keeps me leveled and holds down my E2 levels. I eat up the T as fast as I take it. I just am coming off taking DHEA I was in the normal range for it but the Dr. said everyone needs it so I was doing 25mgs a day after about 4 weeks my .25mgs of Arimidex every 2 days was not enough I went very high and when this happens to me I get Panic Attacks. This started 2 weeks ago and I was up to 1mg. a day too keep the panic feelings down. I was still having wood so I knew I was not on too much. About a week after this happened I had to see my Dr. to go over labs.

My DHEA-S went up 3x's above the top of the range and my DHT went from mid range to 2x's over the top of the range. My E2 on 1mgs at the time if labs was double where I keep 30 I have a lower SHBG and keep my E2 at about 15.

I told Hardasnails about this his nick her is Matrax I think. He had the same problem when I told him what the DHEA did to me. Now we both are off the DHEA and things are getting back to normal. I am now only doing .5mgs every other day gaging by my wood.

So if your on DHEA and don't need it it will convert into E2 Big time.

Wow. Doc told me to take DHEA at 25mg daily as well. I had LOW e2 that we could not get up. So I started on 25mg/day back when I was on 100mg of T-gel. I'm still taking 25mg and I'm on 300mg/gel.....I too feel like whenever I take DHEA i notice it puffs me up and makes me feel fuller must be estrogen.

So does your high e2 sound like my symptoms? I feel good all the time, but its like overstimulated good...like during the day when you are busy everything is okay but when you are sitting by yourself trying to relax you are nastily stimulated which causes anxiety.

 

[pmgamer18]

Yes but this happens like your having when it's not to high and for some of us we don't see this until it gets to high and then you can't do anything but sit there and pray this dam feeling goes away. I tell men with low E2 levels to go on DHEA to get the E2 up low E2 is worse then to high.

Wow. Doc told me to take DHEA at 25mg daily as well. I had LOW e2 that we could not get up. So I started on 25mg/day back when I was on 100mg of T-gel. I'm still taking 25mg and I'm on 300mg/gel.....I too feel like whenever I take DHEA i notice it puffs me up and makes me feel fuller must be estrogen.

So does your high e2 sound like my symptoms? I feel good all the time, but its like overstimulated good...like during the day when you are busy everything is okay but when you are sitting by yourself trying to relax you are nastily stimulated which causes anxiety.

 

[monsterbox]

Yes but this happens like your having when it's not to high and for some of us we don't see this until it gets to high and then you can't do anything but sit there and pray this dam feeling goes away. I tell men with low E2 levels to go on DHEA to get the E2 up low E2 is worse then to high.

well I had e2 of 6. Dr. J was blown away by how low my levels were....I slept fine and had normal libido. He put me on DHEA to raise my e2.

Its now that I have panic attacks at night...when I lay down my mind goes insane. My stomach turns into a knot for 8 hrs until I apply my T-gel in the morning. I can literally feel the T-gel kicking in like xanax. I still think its not E but actually cortisol...I mean Testosterone directly reduces cortisol.

Could this not even be related at all the estrogen in my case...sounds to me like high cortisol at night. Its always worsened on day involving stress/workouts/stimulants. Should I just order my own 24hr cortisol test?

I dont understand why the doc didn't look at cortisol or consider dropping the dhea since he started me on it to raise E2 before prescribing a-dex...and why would he refer to 30 as "at those levels you should be watching oprah"

 

[jinxie]

I have no idea how people are getting away with such low doses of arimidex. When on 3x per week shots, I was taking almost 1mg per day (with good morning wood), and now on t-cream I am taking .5mg almost ed (5-6 times per week) also with solid wood.

GP, I've never understood how you metabolize adex as you do. But I am willing to bet that your E2 would be WAY higher than 30 given your HRT. That's close to ideal. I'm concerned about MB's lipid profile, among other things.

MB, please take your resting BP and pulse sitting, and then stand up for a minute and take it again, and PM me the results. I have a thought.

And for starters, try elevating the upper legs of your bed with 6 inch blocks. Do you have acid reflux?

 

[pmgamer18]

There are only two things that set me off in a Panic Attack high Estradiol levels and or low sugar levels do to low cortisol.

If you have night time and morning wood your Estradiol levels are not to high or to low your younger then me I am 65 I get wood up to 5 x's a night or more. As my levels go high my wood gets weak but before it's gone I will start to feel panic in the middle of the night.

As to low sugar levels in the middle of the night I would have to eat some Pennuts or String Cheeze to keep my sugar levels up or I would wake up in a bad sweat and can't breathe this feeling sets me off into a Panic Attack once you have them things like this set them off.

I starte on Growth Hormone shots and was told to do them at bedtime will doing this can lower sugar and for me it did.
I need to GH for my heart so I stopped doing the GH shot at night and do them in the morning and at bedtime I take an extra Cortef HC 2.5 mgs this is working great.

In this link about Adrenals and Thyroid it states this about sleeping with high or low levels of Cortisol.
In this link you can find were you can buy a 4x's in a day saliva test.
Invalid Link Removed

=====================================
Adrenal insufficiency is linked to insomnia in two ways.

1. If your cortisol drops too low during the night your blood sugar drops too. Your body compensate by releasing adrenaline as an emergency measure to mobilize more sugar. This has the effect of waking you in an instant. This can be reduced by eating high protein snack before retiring e.g. sardines, nuts of high quality protein shake.

2. In early stages of adrenal fatigue cortisol levels tend to rise and if they are high at midnight they can energise you and keep you awake. Phosphorylated serine can be used to lower cortisol at these times due to its ACTH dampening effect.

well I had e2 of 6. Dr. J was blown away by how low my levels were....I slept fine and had normal libido. He put me on DHEA to raise my e2.

Its now that I have panic attacks at night...when I lay down my mind goes insane. My stomach turns into a knot for 8 hrs until I apply my T-gel in the morning. I can literally feel the T-gel kicking in like xanax. I still think its not E but actually cortisol...I mean Testosterone directly reduces cortisol.

Could this not even be related at all the estrogen in my case...sounds to me like high cortisol at night. Its always worsened on day involving stress/workouts/stimulants. Should I just order my own 24hr cortisol test?

I dont understand why the doc didn't look at cortisol or consider dropping the dhea since he started me on it to raise E2 before prescribing a-dex...and why would he refer to 30 as "at those levels you should be watching oprah"

 

[Gutterpump]

So if your on DHEA and don't need it it will convert into E2 Big time.

Not taking any DHEA even though my labs tell me I should be. My total DHEA-S is about 230 when it should be ~500. I am too worried about E2 conversion as well.

Matrix seems to think my methyl pathways are all messed up and that this is causing estrogen metabolization issues. But I tried taking a high dose of sam-e and methyl folate for months, and seemed to have no effect on how much adex I needed.

 

[Gutterpump]

GP, I've never understood how you metabolize adex as you do. But I am willing to bet that your E2 would be WAY higher than 30 given your HRT. That's close to ideal. I'm concerned about MB's lipid profile, among other things.

I am going in for labs next week. Maybe my total test is really high, but also my DHT was in the low range in the past, and this can have an effect on E2's actions in the body. Someone with lower DHT could possibly experience higher E2 symptoms even when their E2 is not super high.. at least this is my theory since the 2 oppose each other. Other than that, I try to take my adex with a fatty meal and then with enzymes, just in case it's an absorption issue. Will find out in a week I suppose. Another theory is that the HCG I am taking could be putting my test into normal range, and then the t-cream I take on top of this could be putting me well over range.

 

[pmgamer18]

There are times E2 levels just go up dam high and you need to take more arimidex to keep it down. I have this happen to me 2 to 3 x's a yr. just out of the blue it shoots why up. I am just comming down from doing 1mgs / day of Arimidex now down to .5 mgs. In a few weeks if this runs the way it did in the past I will be back down to .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

Why this happens don't know.

 

[The Matrix]

Not taking any DHEA even though my labs tell me I should be. My total DHEA-S is about 230 when it should be ~500. I am too worried about E2 conversion as well.

Matrix seems to think my methyl pathways are all messed up and that this is causing estrogen metabolization issues. But I tried taking a high dose of sam-e and methyl folate for months, and seemed to have no effect on how much adex I needed.

check your 2/16 hydrox ratio
People with low thyroid have a low level and if you are not converting to proper levels then methyl donors will not do what they are suppose to do. (transform the good e2 estrogens to be functional)

I use reservatrol and iodoral to help conserve methylation as DIM can
deplete them.

Lower the thyroid greater chances of cancer..
Fix the thyroid will correct the estrogen metabolism imbalances as well as methylation.

 

[monsterbox]

well I recieved my copy of lab results:

Estradiol Ultrasensative - 28pg/ml (<29)
Testosterone Total - 1074ng/dl (250-1100)
Bioavailable Testosterone - 591.5ng/dl (110-575)
SHBG - 15nmol/l

Everything looks fine...so why would the doc put me on A-dex? Is the ultrasensative range different than regular e2? In otherwords, does 28 mean I'm extremely high considering the top of the range is stated at 29?

 

[pmgamer18]

I don't remember who your Dr. is but he is good because with an SHBG of 15 your Estradiol levels are way to high you need to keep them lower with an SHBG this low. I have a low SHBG and keep my E2 levels at 15 pg/ml.
You stay on it but not a real high dose.

well I recieved my copy of lab results:

Estradiol Ultrasensative - 28pg/ml (<29)
Testosterone Total - 1074ng/dl (250-1100)
Bioavailable Testosterone - 591.5ng/dl (110-575)
SHBG - 15nmol/l

Everything looks fine...so why would the doc put me on A-dex? Is the ultrasensative range different than regular e2? In otherwords, does 28 mean I'm extremely high considering the top of the range is stated at 29?

 

[monsterbox]

I don't remember who your Dr. is but he is good because with an SHBG of 15 your Estradiol levels are way to high you need to keep them lower with an SHBG this low. I have a low SHBG and keep my E2 levels at 15 pg/ml.
You stay on it but not a real high dose.

Dr. John....

So pmgamer, when people say the optimal e2 is 20-23, thats NOT reffering to the ultra-sensative quest range? So to make this clear, the generic 20-23 sweet spot is actually 15 on the ultra-sensative assy

So I can assume my anxiety fits are coming from my high E2?? So on a normal e2 test would it show up like 50+???

 

[pmgamer18]

Now that is some thing I have not heard and don't feel it's true. The Ulara. test has a range of <29 for men what they are saying is any man over this they are to high and this is true. My Dr. called his sorce at Quest and was told the results for the Ultra and the Sensative is the same. So on the Ultra test if your 20 pg/ml then on the Sensative your 20.

I told my Dr. I don't beleve them so on my next set of labs we did both on the same draw. The Ultra came back at 18 and my Sensative was 20 so we feel they are about the same.

Dr. John is not using the Quest Ultra any more he had a mess of men come back at <2 they are having big problems with the test and this has been going on for some time. And they know it yet they send the bad results and still charge for it. When this happened to me I called them and told them to give back the money.

They said they will look into it when I got my next BCBS statement it was not on it so I called BCBS they got the money back.

Dr. John said he is going to Labcorp I don't like them I just get the Quest E2 Sensative test #4021 this worked fine before the Ultra test and still does the job.

So I feel as to your low SHBG yes your E2 levels are to high I don't go by labs to dose I go by how I feel and my wood. I went back to .5 mgs of Arimidex every other day and this morning I felt panic and had wood but not good hard wood so I took a .25 mg of Arimidex yesterday I had a .5 it's been 2 hrs and I feel fine now.

Dr. John....

So pmgamer, when people say the optimal e2 is 20-23, thats NOT reffering to the ultra-sensative quest range? So to make this clear, the generic 20-23 sweet spot is actually 15 on the ultra-sensative assy

So I can assume my anxiety fits are coming from my high E2?? So on a normal e2 test would it show up like 50+???

 

[Gutterpump]

check your 2/16 hydrox ratio
People with low thyroid have a low level and if you are not converting to proper levels then methyl donors will not do what they are suppose to do. (transform the good e2 estrogens to be functional)

I use reservatrol and iodoral to help conserve methylation as DIM can
deplete them.

Lower the thyroid greater chances of cancer..
Fix the thyroid will correct the estrogen metabolism imbalances as well as methylation.

I take 60mcg T3 per day to combat RT3 and I am taking iodoral (4 tabs per day). I don't take DIM. This is pretty new though, mainly since starting creams a few months ago. I don't take as much adex now, almost .5mg ed, but it still seems like a lot.