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Started Havoc 1/9/09

Thanks.
I think I just need to explain better. I wasn't looking to pulse completely. I was looking to take like 40mg on days that I workout and 30mg on days that I don't. still running it at five weeks. Or not sure if that defeats the purpose and once you bump the dosage you should keep it there.
 
Well I bumped it to 40 mg today. It seems to have been well worth it. I did arms today and had a wonderful strength increase. It seemed crazy to me. Pumps were hard...I swelled up pretty good and it got a bit painful at one point but I liked it. Strength in my eyes is totally better than hdrol and only on Day 12.

Only thing is my nips felt a bit itchy....could be mental right now, not sure, just felt a tad itchy after the gym. Could they be itchy that quick after increasing the dose.....what do you guys think?
 
maurice02 said:
Well I bumped it to 40 mg today. It seems to have been well worth it. I did arms today and had a wonderful strength increase. It seemed crazy to me. Pumps were hard...I swelled up pretty good and it got a bit painful at one point but I liked it. Strength in my eyes is totally better than hdrol and only on Day 12.

Only thing is my nips felt a bit itchy....could be mental right now, not sure, just felt a tad itchy after the gym. Could they be itchy that quick after increasing the dose.....what do you guys think?
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Nipple sensitivity DURING cycle would be highly rare, due to the nature of the compound.

seems like 40mg is your sweet spot.
 
Gotcha, probably just mental or it was the shirt I was wearing was rubbing. Thanks Dsade. And yeah, 40 mg is NICE to say the least. I also upped my carbs a bit more today. I added in one more banana and a full pbj sandwich instead of half.

I like this stuff. lol.
 
maurice02 said:
Day 12
Morning weight 223
I ate sushi and hot and sour soup last night. Guess it is probably still sitting in my stomach LoL.
anyways, tonight I do arms.

Trying to bump up food intake
8 am - protein shake
9 am - 1 1/2 cups oatmeal, 1 banana
10:30 - 1 banana, 3 eggs
11:30 - 1/2 cup brown rice, 12 - 16oz chicken
1 pm - whole pbj sandwich on 15 grain bread
2:30 - 3 eggs
6 pm - workout
8 pm - protein shake
8:30 - dinner (chicken or steak and veggies)



Question: has anyone previously done say 40mg on workout days and 30 mg on off days? would it be worth it?
I was considering bumping it to 40mg today to see how it felt at the gym tonight.....just wondering.
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Hey man IMO your diet looks a little weak, that is if your truly trying to gain weight with this cycle. According to your post you have 3 eggs at 230 then dont eat again till 800, thats an 5 1/2 hour fast in the middle of your day. I dont have my diet dialed in exactly yet either, but I am up like 5 pounds at day 10 of my cycle.

My diet looks something like this

0530~ Protein Shake
0600~ Incline walk on treadmill
0700~ 4 Large Eggs, 4 Egg Whites, 2 cups oatmeal
1000~ Protein Shake, Almonds, spoon full of PB
1230~ Can of Tuna, 2 Slices of Whole Grain Toast, Slice Fat-Free Cheese, Sunchips
1430~ 2 Slices of Whole Grain Bread, 6 oz deli turkey, fat free cheese slice
1500~ Workout
1630~ Post-Workout Shake and PBJ Sandwich
1800~ 8oz Baked Salmon, 2 cups brown rice, 2 cups steamed veggie
2000~ Either a shake or can of tuna and a sweet potato
2200~ 2 cups fat free cottage cheese and sugar free jello
 
ffmedic32 said:
Hey man IMO your diet looks a little weak, that is if your truly trying to gain weight with this cycle. According to your post you have 3 eggs at 230 then dont eat again till 800, thats an 5 1/2 hour fast in the middle of your day. I dont have my diet dialed in exactly yet either, but I am up like 5 pounds at day 10 of my cycle.

My diet looks something like this

0530~ Protein Shake
0600~ Incline walk on treadmill
0700~ 4 Large Eggs, 4 Egg Whites, 2 cups oatmeal
1000~ Protein Shake, Almonds, spoon full of PB
1230~ Can of Tuna, 2 Slices of Whole Grain Toast, Slice Fat-Free Cheese, Sunchips
1430~ 2 Slices of Whole Grain Bread, 6 oz deli turkey, fat free cheese slice
1500~ Workout
1630~ Post-Workout Shake and PBJ Sandwich
1800~ 8oz Baked Salmon, 2 cups brown rice, 2 cups steamed veggie
2000~ Either a shake or can of tuna and a sweet potato
2200~ 2 cups fat free cottage cheese and sugar free jello
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yeah i was trying for more of a recomp with only lbm. Trying to avoid any additional fat that I don't need LoL. I was considering adding in one more shake at 5:00 which I could do or add in some kinda protein there....can of tuna or something. I am shooting to keep my carbs only early in the day (thus the rice, oats, and bread all eaten by early afternoon). I am just a tad worried that my gains might amount to fat if I eat too much. I am very carb sensitive. Always have been. Last year at one point over one month I lost 18 pounds by just doing straight keto......I know not the best, but in the end I kept 14 of them off, just felt weak as hell going through it.

Anyone with any suggestions feel free to let me know!
 
maurice02 said:
Well I bumped it to 40 mg today. It seems to have been well worth it. I did arms today and had a wonderful strength increase. It seemed crazy to me. Pumps were hard...I swelled up pretty good and it got a bit painful at one point but I liked it. Strength in my eyes is totally better than hdrol and only on Day 12.

Only thing is my nips felt a bit itchy....could be mental right now, not sure, just felt a tad itchy after the gym. Could they be itchy that quick after increasing the dose.....what do you guys think?
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havoc has short 1/2 life so I think so. I had some issues similar, but they were temporary and passed. Keep on pushing through - sore nipples are "par for course" on most cycles.
 
Day 13
Morning weight 223.5. Going to keep at 40mg now unless any unforseen circumstances occur. Tonight is chest and upper legs
 
btw....only "strange" side to report is that for the first time, my piss this morning was like a dark orangish color. Only thing I did different was increase the does of Havoc......strange.
 
maurice02 said:
btw....only "strange" side to report is that for the first time, my piss this morning was like a dark orangish color. Only thing I did different was increase the does of Havoc......strange.
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I noticed I had to pee alot on Havoc, especially shortly after dosing. Since it is a dryer compound, I think it will pull some wate out of your body, so that could be it (this is my guess). Drink more water for sure.
 
jeffh3c said:
I noticed I had to pee alot on Havoc, especially shortly after dosing. Since it is a dryer compound, I think it will pull some wate out of your body, so that could be it (this is my guess). Drink more water for sure.
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definitely increase water intake.

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Day 14
Morning weight - 223
So far up 5 pounds on this. I heard you get most your gains though your 3rd/4th week....we will see.
Running at 40mg. Did chest and legs yesterday. Kinda shocked because within one week I got a pretty good strength increase. Didn't notice anything on flat bench (still 100x6 as last set) but last week i was doing 80x8 as my last set on incline......last night did 80x10, 90x10, 95x5........shocked me. Overall feel good.

Felt a bit of lethargy yesterday but seems to have gone away so far today. Attempted to do cardio last night......10 minutes in and my back was shot. Had to stop.

Was taking in about 1 - 1 1/2 gallons of water a day. Gonna push for 2 gallons a day now.
 
hows the piss today?
 
Chub said:
hows the piss today?
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Dark again in the morning, but more like a dark dark yellow now, not like a tanish color. I drank a bunch of water before bed and had to get up twice to piss. By 9AM though, after two glasses of water, back to light yellow again. It is only overnight when I am not consuming a lot of fluid.
 
maurice02 said:
Dark again in the morning, but more like a dark dark yellow now, not like a tanish color. I drank a bunch of water before bed and had to get up twice to piss. By 9AM though, after two glasses of water, back to light yellow again. It is only overnight when I am not consuming a lot of fluid.
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how late at night are you taking your last dose? Maybe your not drinking enough water around when your taking your doses? just a thought!
 
Chub said:
how late at night are you taking your last dose? Maybe your not drinking enough water around when your taking your doses? just a thought!
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I take my last dose at about 5:30 (1/2 hour before gym) and I drink usually at least a gallon while in the gym while lifting and then do cardio. It only happened when i jumped to 40mg so who knows. Didn't have this going on at 30mg. AS long as I am not pissing blood I will be happy lol.
 
maurice02 said:
I take my last dose at about 5:30 (1/2 hour before gym) and I drink usually at least a gallon while in the gym while lifting and then do cardio. It only happened when i jumped to 40mg so who knows. Didn't have this going on at 30mg. AS long as I am not pissing blood I will be happy lol.
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hmph i dunno then lol. dsade might have some ideas :P
 
Chub said:
hmph i dunno then lol. dsade might have some ideas :P
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yeah, hoping he chimes in. Thanks though. Just odd to me that is only happening first thing in the morning until I drink enough water.....well, I guess that is obviously diluting things lol.
 
Hey guys - somewhat of a noob jumping in here...but seems like the two guys tracking each other's progress are looking to GAIN weight. Is that an inherent factor of Havoc, or a by-product of the loads of food? I ask because I am 6'4" 290, and want the lean muscle gains without the overall MASS gains - so something to push me towards a more cut, muscular physique without pushing me over 3 bills on the scale.

The product descriptions I've found don't necessarily point towards MASS gains...specifically the one I found states: "Havoc is the next generation hormone to deliver the AMAZING results: lean, dry, hard, quality chizeled gains."

Thanks!

-B
 
boliver46 said:
Hey guys - somewhat of a noob jumping in here...but seems like the two guys tracking each other's progress are looking to GAIN weight. Is that an inherent factor of Havoc, or a by-product of the loads of food? I ask because I am 6'4" 290, and want the lean muscle gains without the overall MASS gains - so something to push me towards a more cut, muscular physique without pushing me over 3 bills on the scale.

The product descriptions I've found don't necessarily point towards MASS gains...specifically the one I found states: "Havoc is the next generation hormone to deliver the AMAZING results: lean, dry, hard, quality chizeled gains."

Thanks!

-B
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Some people have gained great size with havoc but have upped their carbs and what not to bulk. All depends what you use it for. I was hoping for 8 - 10 lbs out of it....lbm. At 5 right now and from what I can tell, no fat. I actually started cardio and have kept a fairly clean diet to say the least. Trust me, this stuff won't rip you down like clen, but it has leaned me out, and I am higher teens with bf%.
 
By the way, we ARE talking about RPN Havoc right? My buddy said there are a few supplements out there with SIMILAR names...just wanna get my purchase correct! :)
 
boliver46 said:
By the way, we ARE talking about RPN Havoc right? My buddy said there are a few supplements out there with SIMILAR names...just wanna get my purchase correct! :)
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yup sure is. You can get it from Nutraplanet :)
 
Figued I give an update this evening.
Went 3rd day in the row to the gym. Tonight was back night. Well, I had a good workout for about a 1/2 hour and then was pretty much shot. I think I have just overdone it the past two days and need a break. I am not going tomorrow. Strength was great the first 1/2 hour but body just pretty much gave out. Did mild cardio but back pumps were annoying. Going to up the taurine to two pills a day on workout days now instead of one.

Vascularity has been improving steadily when I am pumped. I like it lol.

Overall I like this better than hdrol so far. Strength is much better. 40mg is my sweet spot. Will most likely consider the rest of my cycle off at 40. Was planning on 5 weeks but will see how I am at 4 weeks.

Sides I have noted are lethargy on and off, but only one really bad day so far. Libido is gone.....seriously, i don't know the last time I got a woody. Testicular atrophy has shown its ugly face. My left nut considerably shrunk, while the right has shrunk, but not as bad. I do have a slight dull ache in my left nut though.....not sure if it is mental or not though ya know. Also got back acne for the first time in my life. Looked and have about 6 - 10 pimples popping up....SWEET...doesn't bother me to be honest. Started yesterday and I did do legs then, so maybe I pulled something......any thoughts?

Dark urine in the AM hours......i am taking two scoops of cycle support and have an additional bottle of milk thistle.....would you suggest adding more milk thistle? My piss becomes pretty clear as the day progresses as long as I keep my water intake very high.

Thanks
 
Day 15
Morning weight 225.5
Jumped up 2.5 pounds overnight and nothing changed with diet. All the same.

Feeling fine today. Piss was dark this morning but not as dark as before. Just keeping water intake up.

Had a bloody nose the passed two nights due to the damn dryness in my place lol.....I need a friggin humidifier. Wonderful to wake up with blood all over and especially when you are having a bad dream!
 
First of all I dont consider myself a body builder. I 'm 5'6 210 stocky with muscle under a layer of fat, and about 30%bf. I started Havoc on Jan 20, what I noticed right away was I'm thirsty a lot and drinking twice as much water as usual. I'm also hungrier. Needless to say my weight is up, a few pounds from 210 last week to 215 tonight, however, my body fat % seems to be down.

I know this is probably all water weight, yet I dont feel bloated. I eat about 2000-2600 calories through out the day, with meat, fish, or chicken at least 4 times day. Instead of a leg workout, I'm hiking a steep hill with switchbacks at least once a week otherwise I try to get 30-45 minutes on a treadmill, eliptical, stairmaster, etc.

I'm blessed with muscular legs so I dont worry too much about weight training them. I have always weight trained so I have some muscle mass especially in my pecs and traps

What I hope to gain are some prominent deltoids and more defined biceps and triceps.
 
Frankster said:
First of all I dont consider myself a body builder. I 'm 5'6 210 stocky with muscle under a layer of fat, and about 30%bf. I started Havoc on Jan 20, what I noticed right away was I'm thirsty a lot and drinking twice as much water as usual. I'm also hungrier. Needless to say my weight is up, a few pounds from 210 last week to 215 tonight, however, my body fat % seems to be down.

I know this is probably all water weight, yet I dont feel bloated. I eat about 2000-2600 calories through out the day, with meat, fish, or chicken at least 4 times day. Instead of a leg workout, I'm hiking a steep hill with switchbacks at least once a week otherwise I try to get 30-45 minutes on a treadmill, eliptical, stairmaster, etc.

I'm blessed with muscular legs so I dont worry too much about weight training them. I have always weight trained so I have some muscle mass especially in my pecs and traps

What I hope to gain are some prominent deltoids and more defined biceps and triceps.
Click to expand...

You should start up a new thread and log your progress. It would be nice to see some tape measurements along with weight, pulse or striaght cycle, PCT?, and all that good stuff. Welcome to AM and good luck.:thumbsup
 
Day 16
Morning weight 225 flat. Feeling good today. Did shoulders. Was very happy with progress being made. I believe I will make tonight my cheat night and eat some stuff i want to eat. Depends where we go out. Been pretty good on this diet since start.
 
Day 17
Morning weight 226.
Swayed from the diet a bit last night and had chicken parm and some pasta. could have been a lot worse lol.

Did arms today. Pumps are still good.....I do sweat profusely when doing any kind of cardio now. I have cut most of it down to about 15 min after workout due to just being wiped after workouts.

No sides really. Just a bit more tired than from the beginning.

I saw my cousin yesterday and hadn't seem him in three weeks and he told me good job on losing weight.....lol......I told him I was actually up 7 pounds. I think I am noticing a leaner look too.

Oh wells, I need to relax.....I am beat
 
Should have posted earlier. I see the exercises you did in cerain days but what is your split (items, rep range, exercises plan, etc).

Also, what are your planned macros and total calories.

Thanks. Keep up the good log!
 
Day 18
Morning weight 226.
Was planning on taking off tonight, but we will see......supposed to get walloped by a storm Tues night into Wed so might not be able to make it one of those two nights or even both so might try to squeeze out chest tonight.

I usually do:

chest and upper legs
Back and a small two workout on biceps (want to improve biceps the most)
Shoulders/traps/calves
Arms (biceps and triceps)
Then repeat. Typically try to go two days on, one off, then 3 on, one off if possible. All depends.

chest
flat bench dumbell - 4 - 5 sets; 10 reps until last set which is most weight for 6 - 8 reps
incline (same sets as above)
flys (same sets as above)
Decline bench (every 2 - 3 weeks with same as above)

Back
Wided grip pulldowns
Single arm row
two handed row
Close grip pull downs
Bent over rows
Rear pulldowns
Every 2 - 3 weeks I try and do deadlifts

Shoulders
Shoulder Press
Front raise (plates, dumbells, or cables)
Delt row (on the bench)
Rear Delt Raises
Single arm shoulder press ( forgot name of machine)

Arms
triceps - Skullcrushers, dips, kickbacks, close grip bench, Pushdowns (both hands and then single handed), reverse pushdowns
Biceps - seated curls, preacher curls, concentration curls, cable curls, hammer curls

Legs - pretty basic - squats, press, ham curls, leg curls (quads)

Pretty much follow for chest and back 4 sets with 10 reps and last set is max weight up to 6 - 8 reps
Arms are 3 sets of 10 for each
Shoulders are 4 sets of 8 - 10 for each

right now I am not calorie counting. Doing more carb counting and protein counting to be honest. Figuring i am keeping on average between 200 and 250 grams of carbs per day.


BTW...doing cariod 15 - 25 min each time I go which "says" it is burning 200 - 300 cals....eh.
 
well, evening workout was chest. Very tired today but still did ok. Pumps were nice as usual.

Also did legs. Back pumps were VERY bad tonight. could not do cardio and just left afterwards.

Anyways, posting some pics now. first was from Day 7, the next was from today, Day 18.

Yes, I know I need to cut eventually. I just never got into it in the past...just went for strength.

anyways, have fun with picking on me LoL

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Maurice

I read all the logs-- thanks for posting! good job man


on 1/21/09--- your piss got darker and mostly or was this way in the AM..


how is it now? have you gotten any bloodwork?

reason i post this is cause my BUN (part of the kidneys function---other test would be creatinine) was elevated a bit with Havoc so be careful with the dark urine ---

like others said-- more h2O

prob its darker in AM cause you are not drinking water (obviously) as you sleep so you are getting more concentrated urea in the AM...

check into the bloodwork, my liv enzymes were up a bit as well but I told my MD about the Epi -- hes cool and I continued on since it wasnt a big deal---
he didnt even call me to tell me things were messed up (which they always do if) but I went in to get a copy to see changes from the Havoc (if indeed there were)

boo
 
boo99 said:
Maurice

I read all the logs-- thanks for posting! good job man


on 1/21/09--- your piss got darker and mostly or was this way in the AM..


how is it now? have you gotten any bloodwork?

reason i post this is cause my BUN (part of the kidneys function---other test would be creatinine) was elevated a bit with Havoc so be careful with the dark urine ---

like others said-- more h2O

prob its darker in AM cause you are not drinking water (obviously) as you sleep so you are getting more concentrated urea in the AM...

check into the bloodwork, my liv enzymes were up a bit as well but I told my MD about the Epi -- hes cool and I continued on since it wasnt a big deal---
he didnt even call me to tell me things were messed up (which they always do if) but I went in to get a copy to see changes from the Havoc (if indeed there were)

boo
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hey thanks for that. Won't be getting bloodwork until after PCT. Piss is still darker in the morning, but it is not like it was right when I switched to 40mg. I have to drink close to 2 gallons now a day to keep it a lighter yellow. If i stray, it gets dark yellow but is no longer a "tea" colored.

Definitely will get bloodwork and keep an eye on things.
Thanks!
 
maurice02 said:
hey thanks for that. Won't be getting bloodwork until after PCT. Piss is still darker in the morning, but it is not like it was right when I switched to 40mg. I have to drink close to 2 gallons now a day to keep it a lighter yellow. If i stray, it gets dark yellow but is no longer a "tea" colored.

Definitely will get bloodwork and keep an eye on things.
Thanks!
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welcome man

ya def. get the bloodwork--- its just as important, to me, as a well thought out and executed PCT
 
up the taurine for the back pumps!
 
Thanks
Def gonna up the taurine. Woke up this morning and just feel blah. Eh, it happens.

Anyways, morning weight of 227 flat.
No workout tonight. Expecting 5 - 7 inches of snow between tonight and tomorrow so hopefully can work from home and then get to the gym earlier tomorrow evening.
 
I hope he'll let us in on the bloodwork, too. A german user of Epistane had a pretty horrible experience with it, his HDL went downhill.
 
Looking like things are going good for ya man. I am at day 18 and have noticed the darkened urine thing also. Like you it is always more noted first thing in the morning. So your up 7 pounds now?

I am at day 18 and have NOT noted any of the sides you are seeing. No acne, my libidio is still just like before, no shrinkage, but i have been feeling the low back pumps lately, been doing taurine 3 grams pre and post workout.

Keep up the good work man
 
ffmedic32 said:
Looking like things are going good for ya man. I am at day 18 and have noticed the darkened urine thing also. Like you it is always more noted first thing in the morning. So your up 7 pounds now?

I am at day 18 and have NOT noted any of the sides you are seeing. No acne, my libidio is still just like before, no shrinkage, but i have been feeling the low back pumps lately, been doing taurine 3 grams pre and post workout.

Keep up the good work man
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hey thanks

Yeah got back acne centralized in my back. libido died quick though on me.....about a week in I guess. oh wells. And my nuts are smaller.

Day 20 morning weight is 228.5

Yesterday I wasn't feeling too hot. Got sweats all throughout the day and just did not feel normal in the head. I think I just needed to rest up. Got 10 hours of sleep and feel fine right now. Gonna head into work late today and hopefully get out to do back and cardio tonight.
 
SpargelJanusz said:
I hope he'll let us in on the bloodwork, too. A german user of Epistane had a pretty horrible experience with it, his HDL went downhill.
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me too

mine went from 103----->29

however since I cleaned up my diet totally--- the TC (total cholesterol) went from 168---->101 so Im still at the 3 ratio which is OK
 
Hoping to get some responses here since I am coming up on my 4th week. Not sure how much strenght/size increase to expect now.....or leaning out.......suggestions or opinions?

Also, safe to say that I should run it 40 mg for the 4th week as usual? I was considering 50mg for week 5 if I run it out that long. What do you guys think?
 
maurice02 said:
Hoping to get some responses here since I am coming up on my 4th week. Not sure how much strenght/size increase to expect now.....or leaning out.......suggestions or opinions?

Also, safe to say that I should run it 40 mg for the 4th week as usual? I was considering 50mg for week 5 if I run it out that long. What do you guys think?
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More is not always better. You've made nice gains so far. I don't think extending it for a 5th week would add much more. Carry on with the 40mg as planned :) Thats what i'd do :)
 
Chub said:
More is not always better. You've made nice gains so far. I don't think extending it for a 5th week would add much more. Carry on with the 40mg as planned :) Thats what i'd do :)
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law of diminishing returns. 5th week will likely give you gains, but reduced gains at a much higher cost to your body. Look at it like this, going ahead with pct means you are 1 week closer to starting a fresh clean new cycle.
 
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