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Squats and deadlifts - ESSENTIAL? Aid in debate

Squelchy said:
How about reading the thread and finding out for yourself?
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Your an idiot. your two way logic is that of a field mouse. You are trying to discredit the rule with the exception to the rule. Can you grow without them? Sure. Can you reach your full potential, hell no. Plain and simple. Nothing to argue here. If you want a real debate, quit bringing up midgets in wheel chair that eats cheezits all day while doing head stands on monkey bars.

Hard to follow? Now try rereading all your posts.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Your an idiot. your two way logic is that of a field mouse. You are trying to discredit the rule with the exception to the rule. Can you grow without them? Sure. Can you reach your full potential, hell no. Plain and simple. Nothing to argue here. If you want a real debate, quit bringing up midgets in wheel chair that eats cheezits all day while doing head stands on monkey bars.

Hard to follow? Now try rereading all your posts.
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Lmao! Trying to discredit the rule? This is from my very first post in the thread:

"My personal position is that they are incredibly useful in doing so and almost everybody should have them in their routine..."

"They're incredibly useful and most people should be doing them..."

As I said... READ.
 
Squelchy said:
Lmao! Trying to discredit the rule? This is from my very first post in the thread:

"My personal position is that they are incredibly useful in doing so and almost everybody should have them in their routine..."

"They're incredibly useful and most people should be doing them..."

As I said... READ.
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Now reread your 40 other idiotic posts. Seriously, are you schizo? Your posts are ass backwards.

Squats are good, deadlifts are great... but how do quadriplegics grow muscles on their eyebrows?
 
DAdams91982 said:
Now reread your 40 other idiotic posts. Seriously, are you schizo? Your posts are ass backwards.

Squats are good, deadlifts are great... but how do quadriplegics grow muscles on their eyebrows?
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No, you simply seem unable to read. I have repeatedy said squats and deads are amazing, you just seem to be ignoring this in favour of focussing on the fact I have said it's possible to develop with other movements as well, and somehow interpreting this as "nobody should ever squat and dead."

It seems to me more that you're illiterate than I'm schizo.

Seriously, find me ONE post where I have said squats and deads aren't in general amazing movements. Just ONE.
 
Squelchy said:
No, you simply seem unable to read. I have repeatedy said squats and deads are amazing, you just seem to be ignoring this in favour of focussing on the fact I have said it's possible to develop with other movements as well, and somehow interpreting this as "nobody should ever squat and dead."

It seems to me more that you're illiterate than I'm schizo.

Seriously, find me ONE post where I have said squats and deads aren't in general amazing movements. Just ONE.
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HOLY ****. Your logic hurts even through the intertubes. You right now say squats and dead's are amazing, then you throw out little gems about tall people and paraplegics. WHO CARES about the tall and handicapped? A NORMAL HEALTHY person that wants to grow to their max potential needs to dead and squat. Talking to you is like talking to a parrot.
 
And please inform me why you brought this useless drivel and your cluttered logic to this board? Why not keep your posts elsewhere? No need to subject all of us to you.
 
DAdams91982 said:
WHO CARES about the tall and handicapped?
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Are you serious? Hmmmm, maybe because people with disproportionate limb lengths and physical disabilities lift too? And when the thread is about whether or not it's possible to grow without certain movements, those people are relevant?
DAdams91982 said:
A NORMAL HEALTHY person that wants to grow to their max potential needs to dead and squat.
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That's certainly the case for most people I agree, as I've said multiple times.
DAdams91982 said:
Talking to you is like talking to a parrot.
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Dude, you're the one who can't simply respond to the questions I've asked.
 
DAdams91982 said:
And please inform me why you brought this useless drivel and your cluttered logic to this board? Why not keep your posts elsewhere? No need to subject all of us to you.
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I thought people here might be intelligent enough to actually respond to the questions I asked instead of going on about crap I never even said. Obviously not. In your case, at least.
 
Squelchy said:
I thought people here might be intelligent enough to actually respond to the questions I asked instead of going on about crap I never even said. Obviously not. In your case, at least.
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Bring a logical linear argument. There is nothing logical or linear in this thread. Again, you are arguing exceptions.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Bring a logical linear argument. There is nothing logical or linear in this thread. Again, you are arguing exceptions.
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Wow, you really aren't playing, you genuinely don't understand, do you? The entire POINT of this thread is that there are exceptions to the rule and that some people won't grow optimally with squats are deads and that they aren't ESSENTIAL. I explained this clearly in my first post.

If you still don't understand that then I don't really know what else to say.
 
Squelchy said:
Wow, you really aren't playing, you genuinely don't understand, do you? The entire POINT of this thread is that there are exceptions to the rule and that some people won't grow optimally with squats are deads and that they aren't ESSENTIAL. I explained this clearly in my first post.

If you still don't understand that then I don't really know what else to say.
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How is this for answering all your posts then.

Even if you are tall, it is ESSENTIAL to do squats and dead-lifts to reach your MAX potential. Why you bring up people who do not have legs is beyond me. That is what you call a straw man argument. Setting up an argument that is quite weak but cannot be proven or dis proven. Your logical fallacy's are abundant throughout this thread.
 
DAdams91982 said:
How is this for answering all your posts then.

Even if you are tall, it is ESSENTIAL to do squats and dead-lifts to reach your MAX potential.
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Whilst I don't agree this is true for absolutely everyone, it at least pretty much addresses most of what I've been asking people to respond to so thank you for that at least. However, the thing is I agree with it (for the overwhelming majority of people, although not absolutely everyone).
DAdams91982 said:
Why you bring up people who do not have legs is beyond me. That is what you call a straw man argument. Setting up an argument that is quite weak but cannot be proven or dis proven. Your logical fallacy's are abundant throughout this thread.
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I bring up people with no legs because the point which was originally being debated was do you need to squat and dead to grow (are they ESSENTIAL). Paraplegic bodybuilders prove that no, they aren't essential to grow. So yes, that can be proven by real world examples of paraplegic bodybuilders.
 
Squelchy said:
Whilst I don't agree this is true for absolutely everyone, it at least pretty much addresses most of what I've been asking people to respond to so thank you for that at least. However, the thing is I agree with it (for the overwhelming majority of people, although not absolutely everyone).

I bring up people with no legs because the point which was originally being debated was do you need to squat and dead to grow (are they ESSENTIAL). Paraplegic bodybuilders prove that no, they aren't essential to grow. So yes, that can be proven by real world examples of paraplegic bodybuilders.
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I said squat and dead to reach your MAX potential.. IF you have legs. If you do not have legs, your max potential changes. The whole part of essential become negated when a person can not utilize said exercises.
 
You may have said that, but if you had bothered to read my original post you would have seen I asked if they were essential, not essential TO REACH YOUR MAX POTENTIAL.

And as for that point, Dorian dropped squats and progressed even further, so they COULDN'T take him all the way to his max potential, he needed something else. No doubt they helped get him an incredible way, but they DIDN'T take him to his max potential.
 
ok so its possible to get big without squats or deadlifts because we now have machines and different exercises that mimic the movement in those exercises so yes if you workout legs doing similar movement and lower back i think you could still be huge now lets stop this stupid thread please
 
GUYS STOP TALKING TO SQUELCHY.. HE'S AN IDIOT.. HE'S PROBABLY GUNNA REPLY TO THIS WITH A QUESTION ABOUT PARAPLEGICS

JUST LET HIM BE!
WE KNOW WE'RE RIGHT haha
 
seanlambo said:
ok so its possible to get big without squats or deadlifts because we now have machines and different exercises that mimic the movement in those exercises so yes if you workout legs doing similar movement and lower back i think you could still be huge now lets stop this stupid thread please
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What are you talking about? No machine replicates a square and/or a deadlift. There are machines that TRY, but they are definitely not successful.
 
Ju1cedUp said:
GUYS STOP TALKING TO SQUELCHY.. HE'S AN IDIOT.. HE'S PROBABLY GUNNA REPLY TO THIS WITH A QUESTION ABOUT PARAPLEGICS

JUST LET HIM BE!
WE KNOW WE'RE RIGHT haha
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Who's "we?"

For example in that other thread you were talking about how amazing Mooch was, yet when he really listened to what I was actually saying he said "okay...then we agree."

So you disagree with him as well then?
 
Squelchy said:
Who's "we?"

For example in that other thread you were talking about how amazing Mooch was, yet when he really listened to what I was actually saying he said "okay...then we agree."

So you disagree with him as well then?
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... i put how he said they were essential. and another guy said he knew what he was talking about..

i'm almost willing to say i agree with u to shut u the hell up now.

how f|_|cking gay are u that you have to sit on here all day and keep arguing the same point.. enough!
 
Squelchy said:
You may have said that, but if you had bothered to read my original post you would have seen I asked if they were essential, not essential TO REACH YOUR MAX POTENTIAL.

And as for that point, Dorian dropped squats and progressed even further, so they COULDN'T take him all the way to his max potential, he needed something else. No doubt they helped get him an incredible way, but they DIDN'T take him to his max potential.
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o and when i was arguing my point on the other forum, from the start i said they were essential to maximizing potential in all workouts. so you've been arguing all this time for nothing

to be in exact words cuz u will find a way to say suttin stupid.. i said they increase the rate of growth, even exponentially as i feel in my case.
 
Ju1cedUp said:
o and when i was arguing my point on the other forum, from the start i said they were essential to maximizing potential in all workouts. so you've been arguing all this time for nothing

to be in exact words cuz u will find a way to say suttin stupid.. i said they increase the rate of growth, even exponentially as i feel in my case.
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I haven't been arguing for nothing, and if you still don't understand what I'm actually saying then I really don't know how I can explain it any more clearly than I already have. I understand EXACTLY what you said and for the most part agree with you as I have explained repeatedly, I just think there are always exceptions to the rule (and there were one or two other points I made as well).
 
Squelchy said:
I haven't been arguing for nothing, and if you still don't understand what I'm actually saying then I really don't know how I can explain it any more clearly than I already have. I understand EXACTLY what you said and for the most part agree with you as I have explained repeatedly, I just think there are always exceptions to the rule (and there were one or two other points I made as well).
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NO BELIEVE ME YOU'VE EXPLAINED ENOUGH!!

TIME TO QUIT
 
For someone who's repeatedly claimed he's going to stop posting in this thread you sure seem to want to keep going.
 
lets make this simple:

Squats and deadlifts are not necessary to gain muscle mass. You can get huge without them. It just take much more time and your physique isn't as functional.

That being said, why not do squats and deadlifts and get stronger/bigger faster with more functional strength rather than wasting your time cuz your a *****.
 
Didn't read the whole thread yet, though I plan to eventually - the OP is asking something ridiculous.

Of course deadlifts and squats aren't ESSENTIAL/NECESSARY to gain muscle. You could gain muscle masturbating 24 hours a day, or in agonizing contortions while flailing your self with a whip. It is horribly obvious no one exercise is absolutely required to gain muscle...perhaps other than BREATHING and other basic organ functions.

The only significant argument of any value regarding these exercises is just how valuable they are beyond necessity (which no exercise is). And, in this case, the general consensus is that they are far and away the BEST set of exercises for overall body musculature stimulation and activation.

So, if your goal is overall muscle development and growth, you are wasting your time, short changing yourself, wimping out, being ineffectual, etc, if you ignore these two exercises. Sorry if this horse is already long past dead, or if the OP/protagonists are just too thick headed to understand. I just had to add my 2cents.
 
Squelchy said:
Why are you so afraid to respond to my questions?

Please respond with correct or incorrect answers to these statements:

1) Back squats and conventional deadlifts are amazing mass building movements that most people will grow extremely well from.

2) Almost everyone will grow better from having some form of squat and deadlift in their routine, even if not the back squat and conventional deadlift.

3) It is not absolutely necessary to squat and deadlift to build muscle, although in almost every case it helps

4) There is a small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than the back squat and conventional deadlift.

5) There is an even smaller, very small minority of people who, for various reasons such as limb length, flexibility issues and muscle imbalances, will get better results from exercises other than ANY form of the squat and deadlift.

6) Squats and deads are essential, therefore paraplegic bodybuilders do not exist and are completely imaginary.
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1) Yes
2) Yes
3) You're an idiot. If I've never worked out before fu*king pushups will build muscle. If I build 28" wheels with squats of course I can add some new muscle by switching to new exercises. Nobody is building those wheels without squatting and deadliftin though.
4) Work on your flexibility and imbalances until you CAN squat and deadlift.
5) See 4
6) You're an idiot. Paraplegic bodybuilders are not symmetric therefore are not relevant. Thats like telling me since half the people at my gym don't squat or deadlift but have a decent peak on their biceps I should work out like them.

"Don't argue with me to try to validate yourself. If I wanted to look like you and perform like you I'd train like you. I don't, so I won't."
 
What are you talking about? No machine replicates a square and/or a deadlift. There are machines that TRY, but they are definitely not successful.
why are you trying to argue with me, i do squats and deads all the time i'm just sayiing there are similar exercises NOT THE EXACT SAME chill out braaah
 
this thread is damn amusing....I'm going to continue squatting and deadlifting because every time I lift more on those 2 exercises, guaranteed weight will shoot up in all the other 'supportive' exercises etc such as curls/rows - which means more strength which to me means `i can overload my muscles with more weight and stress them more so therefore they should grow more as long as a good diet is feeding them...
 
1. Free weights are better than machines because they tear and use more accessory muscles.

2. Squats are the best free weight exercise for legs because they tear the most fibers in all accessories muscles in the legs.

3. Legs muscles are the largest muscles of the body.


1 + 2 + 3 + upper body workout > upper body workout ....period
 
Ross_The_Boss said:
Wondering if anyone has any advice....when im squating im favoring my right leg pretty well anyone know how to fix this?
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Well, start by "consciously" pushing evenly with both legs/feet. Do not favor the rt side. Allow the left side to gain the feel of even pushing. Stay aware of when you are doing it and don't do it. If you have to, back the weight off some and slowly work back up balanced.
It reminds me of when my knees came in when I first started. I got a bunch of info on weaknesses and etc. but a few guys just told me to "STOP" doing it. That worked very well and I have not looked back.
 
No I dont have a mirror but thanks for the info il have the guy I workout with yell at me when im favoring my right side and consitrate a lot more on going up evenly
 
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