Soy protein is officially the worst protein

JudoJosh

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Muscle strength gains during resistance exercise training are attenuated with soy compared with dairy or usual protein intake in older adults: A randomized controlled trial.

BACKGROUND & AIMS:
Maintenance of muscle mass and strength into older age is critical to maintain health. The aim was to determine whether increased dairy or soy protein intake combined with resistance training enhanced strength gains in older adults.

METHODS:
179 healthy older adults (age 61.5 ± 7.4 yrs, BMI 27.6 ± 3.6 kg/m2) performed resistance training three times per week for 12 weeks and were randomized to one of three eucaloric dietary treatments which delivered >20 g of protein at each main meal or immediately after resistance training: high dairy protein (HP-D, >1.2 g of protein/kg body weight/d; ∼27 g/d dairy protein); high soy protein (HP-S, >1.2 g of protein/kg body weight/d; ∼27 g/d soy protein); usual protein intake (UP, <1.2 g of protein/kg body weight/d). Muscle strength, body composition, physical function and quality of life were assessed at baseline and 12 weeks. Treatments effects were analyzed using two-way ANOVA.

RESULTS:
83 participants completed the intervention per protocol (HP-D = 34, HP-S = 26, UP = 23). Protein intake was higher in HP-D and HP-S compared with UP (HP-D 1.41 ± 0.14 g/kg/d, HP-S 1.42 ± 0.61 g/kg/d, UP 1.10 ± 0.10 g/kg/d; P < 0.001 treatment effect). Strength increased less in HP-S compared with HP-D and UP (HP-D 92.1 ± 40.8%, HP-S 63.0 ± 23.8%,UP 92.3 ± 35.4%; P = 0.002 treatment effect). Lean mass, physical function and mental health scores increased and fat mass decreased (P ≤ 0.006), with no treatment effect (P > 0.06).

CONCLUSIONS:
Increased soy protein intake attenuated gains in muscle strength during resistance training in older adults compared with increased intake of dairy protein or usual protein intake.
 
breezy11

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Thanks as always Josh.
 

Nyrin

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The Suppversity discussion of this was pretty decent: No Soy for Your (Grand-)Parents! Soy Blunts Strength Gains in 12-Week Resistance Training Study - Avg. Gains Approx. 30% Lower Than in Both Dairy and No Protein Group! - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

What's very perplexing about this study is that the low-protein group also beat the soy protein group. We know that there are some inferiorities in soy protein versus dairy-derived, but it should still beat no protein at all.

The hypothesis that they set forth centers around soy not being very insulinogenic and older trainees having more problems with GH/IGF-related things:

Edit: Since you've asked me to speculate, here is a speculation. Another potential explanation for the difference is that soy is significantly less insulinogenic than whey (Veldhorst. 2009). This would also suggest lower PWO IGF-1 levels and could contribute to (a) the lower strength gains in the soy group and (b) the increased strength gains in the no protein group which consumed more carbs and had higher insulin and probably IGF-1 levels. In addition it would suggest that this effect is more pronounced in the elderly, because their IGF-1 levels plummet (Breese. 1991).
It'd be interesting to follow this up with SPI + CHO instead, as that would bear out whether or not the soy is actually a "negative" or just lacking a key piece of the puzzle for older trainees.
 
money0351

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The Suppversity discussion of this was pretty decent: No Soy for Your (Grand-)Parents! Soy Blunts Strength Gains in 12-Week Resistance Training Study - Avg. Gains Approx. 30% Lower Than in Both Dairy and No Protein Group! - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone What's very perplexing about this study is that the low-protein group also beat the soy protein group. We know that there are some inferiorities in soy protein versus dairy-derived, but it should still beat no protein at all. The hypothesis that they set forth centers around soy not being very insulinogenic and older trainees having more problems with GH/IGF-related things: It'd be interesting to follow this up with SPI + CHO instead, as that would bear out whether or not the soy is actually a "negative" or just lacking a key piece of the puzzle for older trainees.
could it be because of the ratio of Non EAA to EAA's? From the amino profiles I've seen, it has an underwhelming amount of leucine that wouldn't be enough to reach threshold for MPS
 
Geoforce

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Soy- Not even once.
 
Synapsin

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Saw this recently and chuckled, haha. Nice post!
 
Blergs

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interesting. thanks. i still eat soya, but not alot of it.
 
bdcc

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But I thought if someone hit their macros that is all that mattered.

Am I right? ;)
 
breezy11

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Nyrin

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But I thought if someone hit their macros that is all that mattered.

Am I right? ;)
Not getting swole on pork rinds? Awwww...

Really, though, I think this bears some more investigation, but I have a hard time believing that SPI could really be "worse than nothing." Soy's certainly a "meh" protein source, but I can't see how it's the evil anti-protein, either. It'll be really interesting to see if this study prompts some followup to explore mechanisms and confounds.
 
bolt10

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But I thought if someone hit their macros that is all that mattered. Am I right? ;)
That's all the forums ever tell me anymore...sigh

;)
 
breezy11

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That's all the forums ever tell me anymore...sigh

;)
:thumbsup:


It may or may not make me want to drive my head through a wall almost daily. :)
 
bolt10

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Protein is protein is protein okay?
BRB on a supplement forum, but telling people not to ever think about the little things whatsoever.

BRB changing my stance every-time a new authority says something though!

BRB BRB BRB
 
NoAddedHmones

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BRB on a supplement forum, but telling people not to ever think about the little things whatsoever.

BRB changing my stance every-time a new authority says something though!

BRB BRB BRB
Bah Bah black sheep
 
T-Bone

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Not getting swole on pork rinds? Awwww...

Really, though, I think this bears some more investigation, but I have a hard time believing that SPI could really be "worse than nothing." Soy's certainly a "meh" protein source, but I can't see how it's the evil anti-protein, either. It'll be really interesting to see if this study prompts some followup to explore mechanisms and confounds.
Bro, if you eat any amount of Soy Protein you'll grow boobies and a cha cha!.
 
cubsfan815

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Cha cha like as in a Vag? Do i get to keep my wanker and have both?
 
Aleksandar37

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Josh, did they say how they controlled for dairy and soy protein in the diet of the subjects outside of the experimental protein?
 
RecompMan

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<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=115387"/> My friend here drank elitext for a week and look what happened....
I happen to enjoy that blended protein very much and there is not a high amount of soy protein in it

Plus study done on older individuals where hormone levels vary much more the younger individuals
 
JudoJosh

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Not getting swole on pork rinds? Awwww...

Really, though, I think this bears some more investigation, but I have a hard time believing that SPI could really be "worse than nothing." Soy's certainly a "meh" protein source, but I can't see how it's the evil anti-protein, either. It'll be really interesting to see if this study prompts some followup to explore mechanisms and confounds.
have you seen this paper before- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24015701
 
JudoJosh

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Josh, did they say how they controlled for dairy and soy protein in the diet of the subjects outside of the experimental protein?
They were given meal plans and also provided with additional protein, depending on their group
 

Nyrin

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Yeah, I've seen that one and it's definitely interesting.

There's also several that contradict it, though:
  1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17908338
    No significant differences were observed between groups for total and free testosterone, SHBG, percentage body fat, BMI or body weight
    ...
    This investigation shows that 12 week supplementation with soy protein does not decrease serum testosterone or inhibit lean body mass changes in subjects engaged in a resistance exercise program.
  2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20378106
    The intervention data indicate that isoflavones do not exert feminizing effects on men at intake levels equal to and even considerably higher than are typical for Asian males.
  3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
    No significant effects of soy protein or isoflavone intake on T, SHBG, free T, or FAI were detected regardless of statistical model.
    ...
    The results of this meta-analysis suggest that neither soy foods nor isoflavone supplements alter measures of bioavailable T concentrations in men.

Don't get me wrong, I still shy away from soy protein when I can, but I don't go completely out of my way to avoid it, either. It's clear that there's enough to "hmm" over that trying especially hard to moderate soy makes a lot of sense.
 
bdcc

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In instances where the data is conflicting we often have two views.

Classically, with most things in the fitness industry a lot of people tend to drift to the extreme end's of the spectrum and miss everything in the middle.

1) OMG SOY IS THE DEVIL. NEVER CONSUME IT OR YOU WILL GROW BOOBS.
2) Soy is fine. Don't worry about it.

I happily sit somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't freak out over soy consumption in any dose but in instances where equal products are available, I will always purchase a product which doesn't incorporate soy as one of the main ingredients.
 
JudoJosh

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Don't get me wrong, I still shy away from soy protein when I can, but I don't go completely out of my way to avoid it, either. It's clear that there's enough to "hmm" over that trying especially hard to moderate soy makes a lot of sense.
I happily sit somewhere in the middle. I wouldn't freak out over soy consumption in any dose but in instances where equal products are available, I will always purchase a product which doesn't incorporate soy as one of the main ingredients.
Agree with both of these statements. While the evidence isn't conclusive, it is significant enough to warrant at least pause and with whey, casein, etc.. available, I ask.. why bother with soy for supplementary protein intake.
 
The_Old_Guy

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I happen to enjoy that blended protein very much and there is not a high amount of soy protein in it
I just picked up 16lbs of it for cheeeep, so I'm with you :) Only 84 of my 230 come from powder anyway.
 
Chuck Diesel

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Soy protein taste horrible anyway. I rem GNC house brand challenge. They had soy in choc. Vanilla and some other flavor. It all tasted the same. Like pure ground soy beans


Muscle strength gains during resistance exercise training are attenuated with soy compared with dairy or usual protein intake in older adults: A randomized controlled trial.

BACKGROUND & AIMS:
Maintenance of muscle mass and strength into older age is critical to maintain health. The aim was to determine whether increased dairy or soy protein intake combined with resistance training enhanced strength gains in older adults.

METHODS:
179 healthy older adults (age 61.5 ± 7.4 yrs, BMI 27.6 ± 3.6 kg/m2) performed resistance training three times per week for 12 weeks and were randomized to one of three eucaloric dietary treatments which delivered >20 g of protein at each main meal or immediately after resistance training: high dairy protein (HP-D, >1.2 g of protein/kg body weight/d; ∼27 g/d dairy protein); high soy protein (HP-S, >1.2 g of protein/kg body weight/d; ∼27 g/d soy protein); usual protein intake (UP, <1.2 g of protein/kg body weight/d). Muscle strength, body composition, physical function and quality of life were assessed at baseline and 12 weeks. Treatments effects were analyzed using two-way ANOVA.

RESULTS:
83 participants completed the intervention per protocol (HP-D = 34, HP-S = 26, UP = 23). Protein intake was higher in HP-D and HP-S compared with UP (HP-D 1.41 ± 0.14 g/kg/d, HP-S 1.42 ± 0.61 g/kg/d, UP 1.10 ± 0.10 g/kg/d; P < 0.001 treatment effect). Strength increased less in HP-S compared with HP-D and UP (HP-D 92.1 ± 40.8%, HP-S 63.0 ± 23.8%,UP 92.3 ± 35.4%; P = 0.002 treatment effect). Lean mass, physical function and mental health scores increased and fat mass decreased (P ≤ 0.006), with no treatment effect (P > 0.06).

CONCLUSIONS:
Increased soy protein intake attenuated gains in muscle strength during resistance training in older adults compared with increased intake of dairy protein or usual protein intake.
 
Chuck Diesel

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I'd say soy doesn't produce the same results as dairy. Not so much it blunts results. The reason being most plant proteins are not no where close to the amino acid profile of egg and milk.

The Suppversity discussion of this was pretty decent: No Soy for Your (Grand-)Parents! Soy Blunts Strength Gains in 12-Week Resistance Training Study - Avg. Gains Approx. 30% Lower Than in Both Dairy and No Protein Group! - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone

What's very perplexing about this study is that the low-protein group also beat the soy protein group. We know that there are some inferiorities in soy protein versus dairy-derived, but it should still beat no protein at all.

The hypothesis that they set forth centers around soy not being very insulinogenic and older trainees having more problems with GH/IGF-related things:



It'd be interesting to follow this up with SPI + CHO instead, as that would bear out whether or not the soy is actually a "negative" or just lacking a key piece of the puzzle for older trainees.
 

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The protein content of soy protein is the highest among plant proteins.
 

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