Sore Nipple from Cissus?

[BlackIron]

Little background. 39 yrs old. Lifting consistently for 25. BF between 11-12%. Diet is very clean. Sups- creatine, multi, curcumin, bioperine, fishoil, whey, leucine, hmb. I cycled AAS a few times when I was younger. Last time was 11 yrs ago. I did develop a small painful lump under right nipple back then. After I stopped cycling it went away completely. 5 days ago I started taking 3g cissus to help with a little nagging joint pain. Today my nipple is very sore to the touch in the exact place the lump was previously. A previous run (2yrs ago) of cissus gave me the same effect, but it took much longer to develop. Once I noticed the effect I stopped use. I will be stopping again and in a week or so try again at a 1g per day dose.

My question is has anyone else experienced this? What is causing this? I have read conflicting info on cissus regarding hormone interaction. One side saying it has anabolic/androgenic properties, the other (rat study) said it has estrogenic properties. Does anyone know one way or the other? If it is estrogen shouldn't the curcumin take care of any elevations? I really would like to keep taking it because it works wonders for my joints, but if it is elevated estrogen I don't want it messing with my ability to keep making progress. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Little background. 39 yrs old. Lifting consistently for 25. BF between 11-12%. Diet is very clean. Sups- creatine, multi, curcumin, bioperine, fishoil, whey, leucine, hmb. I cycled AAS a few times when I was younger. Last time was 11 yrs ago. I did develop a small painful lump under right nipple back then. After I stopped cycling it went away completely. 5 days ago I started taking 3g cissus to help with a little nagging joint pain. Today my nipple is very sore to the touch in the exact place the lump was previously. A previous run (2yrs ago) of cissus gave me the same effect, but it took much longer to develop. Once I noticed the effect I stopped use. I will be stopping again and in a week or so try again at a 1g per day dose.

My question is has anyone else experienced this? What is causing this? I have read conflicting info on cissus regarding hormone interaction. One side saying it has anabolic/androgenic properties, the other (rat study) said it has estrogenic properties. Does anyone know one way or the other? If it is estrogen shouldn't the curcumin take care of any elevations? I really would like to keep taking it because it works wonders for my joints, but if it is elevated estrogen I don't want it messing with my ability to keep making progress. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

First off, estrogen is great for muscle gain, however if you're trying to cut and stay lean limiting it is always favorable. Cissus is used in quite a few testosterone boosting supplements, and anecdotally it has effected my pubertal gyno. So i recommend if you decide to stay on the cissus throw in some Inhibit-e uses all natural aromotase inhibitors and has versatile dosing so that you can go as low as 1 cap ED and still negate any negative effects from cissus.

 

[Misfit28]

First off, estrogen is great for muscle gain, however if you're trying to cut and stay lean limiting it is always favorable. Cissus is used in quite a few testosterone boosting supplements, and anecdotally it has effected my pubertal gyno. So i recommend if you decide to stay on the cissus throw in some Inhibit-e uses all natural aromotase inhibitors and has versatile dosing so that you can go as low as 1 cap ED and still negate any negative effects from cissus.

Inhibit E is very powerful in my experience, sounds like you found the same

I've never had issues from Cissus exacerbating gyno.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Inhibit E is very powerful in my experience, sounds like you found the same

I've never had issues from Cissus exacerbating gyno.

Never used more than 2 caps ED tbh..

 

[GettinSwolen]

Isn't 3g ed a little on the high side? I usually run 1g a day and notice a difference, maybe try lowering the dosage like you suggested.

 

[BlackIron]

Thanks guys. It is a little on the high side. I was feeling it this morning and it is definitely a flare up of the old lump. Does anyone have any idea if this is caused by estrogen from the cissus or is it increased estrogen because the cissus boosts test? I've read conflicting info but its info from like 08. Any new info about hormonal interactions?

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

Thanks guys. It is a little on the high side. I was feeling it this morning and it is definitely a flare up of the old lump. Does anyone have any idea if this is caused by estrogen from the cissus or is it increased estrogen because the cissus boosts test? I've read conflicting info but its info from like 08. Any new info about hormonal interactions?

Well from what I can deduce from reading a few articles-
Due to the ability of cissus quadrangularis to act as a glucocorticoid antagonist, it has been proposed to possess anabolic/androgenic activity
Also, it's known to increase metabolism via Lipid Peroxidation which is why it's touted in weight loss products, whenever our body's metabolism is raised it allows our body to upregulate hormone sythensis as were giving it the energy and building blocks it needs in order to make our hormones, so by this mechanism alone it can from a chain of reactions allow higher tesosterone levels. As our body is able to accomadate to higher hormone levels as it raises or hormones an example of the metabolism/hormone correlation is a calorie restrictive diet. Many studies indicate that a calorie restrictive diet can negatively impact hormone levels, which is caused by a lack of excess nutrients to be utilized for hormone synthesis. Another mechanism by which it CAN allow for the Up-regulation of testosterone is how it effects our serotonin levels. Plasma serotonin levels rose a mean of 30-39%. Higher serotonin levels actually correlates with a healthier life style in many ways as serotonin is one of our "Feel Good" hormones. Depressed men are up to 50% more likely to suffer from lower testosterone levels and decreased quality of life. This raise in serotonin could also raise motivation and willingness to be active and do things. So in theory there are many ways it COULD raise testosterone levels whether it's either directly or indirectly.

 

[BlackIron]

Thanks for the help Young! Kind of amazing to me that a plant extract could effect my hormones to the degree that it aggravates a very old lump site. I mean it took AAS to develop it in the first place! Stuff works like a charm for the joints though. Hopefully a lower dose will be ok after a layoff. I had used super cissus rx in the past. This time I went with bulk. Super cissus directions stated to use a higher dose for the first 10 days which is why I was dosing it high.

 

[luelinks]

If your lump grows and doesn't go away with a OTC AI or trying different dosages, I would say try out low dosage of Arimidex.