Some questions about PH's

[Drolhunter]

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum but looking forward to find information and share my own experiences.

My situation is this:

-lifetime natural, but have searched information about anabolics for a while now and seriously thinking about first PH-cycle

-really confused still about what actually works... I have thought about halodrol (banned? but very effective with low sides) or epistane (mild, no serious side effects, cheap?) or DMZ (easily available, great mass gains?) atleast some logs here show that it works...

Mostly confused because old school anabolic forums say literally that prohormones are crap, they doesn't work and the side effects you get are horrible and oh yes they also f*** up your own test levels. But also there is really high quality "all-you-need-to-know" -articles (for example "all info on prohormones you'll ever need" on forums.steroid)
And here at anabolicminds people 1) use PH's 2) know about the side effects and positive effects 3) probably will tell you something else than "you are going to kill yourself with that ****, start test, deca and slin, they're more safer"
.... So I decided to ask some help from you guys.

The point is that I really can't afford AAS cycle AND it's really damn harder to find someone who sells them and not to get caught buying illegal substances.
Yes, I am ready to take the risk which both AAS and PH's include. It seems like PH's are 1) easier to get 2) cheaper. Of course, AAS would be faster with mass gains etc. but at least for now I just want to try how my body responds to these anabolics and do I really have what it takes to move to the "dark side". I mean if I really get no proper results with products other have gained significant amount then I probably shouldn't even use them as my body evidently doesn't respond to anabolics very well.

-My diet and training program are fine, actually very fine. A experienced bodybuilding coach has made my meal and training plan which I have followed (every meal weighted, calories counted and more/less food depending on how fast my bw rises/goes down). Of course one might argue about this but lots of clean food, proper weight tracking and sufficient training program are must things to be under control before even thinking about anabolics and I know this well.

At the moment I'm using as pre-workout a product called ATTITUDE by PPS-nutrition and sometimes adding 30g malto to it (depending on calorie intake), as intra-workout 20 grams of BCAA, 5g of beta-alanine, 5g creatine, 5g of salt and 50 grams of maltodextrine or a mix of malto and vitargo. As post-workout I take 40g of whey isolate, 5g of creatine and 60 grams of malto.

For first timer a short cycle would be wise, maybe. I don't have a load of money to use and that's one reason why I'm sticking to PH's as they are relatively cheaper (at least most of them).
And before anyone asks: yes, I am going to compete in future and no, I don't have any other hobbies or passions. I'm into this for real, and because of this I'm taking a step forward. Not because of hoes in the bar or because I want to lift the most at gym and impress others. I want to compete and have success.

Of course I'm thinking about my health too because health is one of the main things when thinking of competing. How you can make a success in shows if you have serious health problems? So I am really interested in pct. Liver support is essential and nolva or clomid too? Depends on the PH's you use I guess. Purus Labs Organ Shield seems like a great product, has anyone here tried it? Reasonable price also.

I am ready to hear your opinions, if possible you can suggest a cycle or just give some tips and tricks concerning anabolics might even start a log here in future.

And what comes to products, if it's not ok to link them on this thread then PM me or I'll give my email. By the way, sorry if my english is poor, I live in Northern Europe and posting with phone

-drolhunter

 

[CJ_Xfit89]

What are your goals if I missed reading them?

 

[Drolhunter]

What are your goals if I missed reading them?

By looking at my condition at the moment it seems like I could bulk now, condition is quite lean so I'd like to put on muscle, not really cut right now. And if you're interested in more long-range goals: going to compete in bodybuilding. Just a matter of time and gains

 

[Kickstart7]

First if all man you said that AAS are more powerful than prohormones. This is wrong in some ways, prohornones are active steroids in the body. Most like to call them designer steroids if you will. And I'd say that Msten and DMZ are more powerful than some AAS so you have the wrong perception there if I'm reading correctly.

Trying a "pro hormone" is just dipping your feet into the dark side and getting ready for AAS, they are steroids. They'll have the same side effects if not worst do to methylation in most of them. Also any designer steroid or AAS will "mess" with your natural test and this is because they are exogenous hormones. How much is dependent on dose and length. Also most designers and AAS will also negatively impact cholesterol and BP. Those that are DHT will effect the prostate in a negative way. And there's always gyno, even if a compound doesn't convert to estrogen there's still a chance of gyno. The higher bodyfat you are the higher chances for gyno.

Do more research bro, these are just vague basics I've learned, by no means am I an expect. I've only run one AAS cycle and 4 designer cycles. I'm sure others will Jump in to correct me or help further. For the most part those are it.

 

[CJ_Xfit89]

I would steer away from PHs for now.
Look into our new EP1C unleashed in cap or TD or even OSTAR1NE.

If you want to look into PHs then if you can find ST3NADROL stacked with tr3n at 60mg would be a great cycle

 

[Drolhunter]

First if all man you said that AAS are more powerful than prohormones. This is wrong in some ways, prohornones are active steroids in the body. Most like to call them designer steroids if you will. And I'd say that Msten and DMZ are more powerful than some AAS so you have the wrong perception there if I'm reading correctly.

Trying a "pro hormone" is just dipping your feet into the dark side and getting ready for AAS, they are steroids. They'll have the same side effects if not worst do to methylation in most of them. Also any designer steroid or AAS will "mess" with your natural test and this is because they are exogenous hormones. How much is dependent on dose and length. Also most designers and AAS will also negatively impact cholesterol and BP. Those that are DHT will effect the prostate in a negative way. And there's always gyno, even if a compound doesn't convert to estrogen there's still a chance of gyno. The higher bodyfat you are the higher chances for gyno.

Do more research bro, these are just vague basics I've learned, by no means am I an expect. I've only run one AAS cycle and 4 designer cycles. I'm sure others will Jump in to correct me or help further. For the most part those are it.

Fair points, thank you! I've read about the side effects of both of them and yeah, gyno and shutdown of own test production sound harsh but aren't they mostly preventable with proper during- and post cycle therapy?

One of the reasons why my perception about PH's might be false is that most of the people who write about them also sell them so it is easier to say they doesn't have much side effects cause by that they sell more....

And yup, learning more every day. In fact the reasons why I read and write here is because I want to learn as much as possible before starting a cycle.

 

[Jebrook]

Welcome to AM and thanks for the intro. I think you are to be commended for Searching for an understanding of aas/DS before jumping in. This forum is the most helpful no matter what your research interests are. It would help us to help you if we knew your age, physical stats, and training experience. If you are not 21 do not ask for any cycle advice and do not use ph's. I highly advise waiting until at least 25. I personally waited until 31. With all that out of the way it sounds like you have some decent training experience already. I think your progression of supplement cycles should go along these lines:
Natural anabolics
DHEA/andros
SARMs
Pro hormones
Get 2-3 cycles of natural anabolics before progressing onto an andro cycle, so on and so forth. Good luck on your journey.

 

[mixedup]

Many of the so called ph's were just aas that weren't released for general public the are active on there own and need no conversion they are not true ph. I don't know what old school forums you have been on but I am what they call old school and was juiced before any prohormones were ever released

Your idea on cost is off though. Most designer ir ph cycles when you factor in cYcle support etc are much more expensive than a basic injectable cycle.

2nd cost should be furthest from your mind you only get one body.

If you are looking to compete personally I would not go with an oral only cycle for the first time.

I would ask the person who did your meal plan if he's an experienced bodybuilder he will have a source. But I'd ask him to evaluate your body your lines weak points etc. See if he feels your base is at the point where you need to cycle. Almost every coach I know or am friends with which include ifbb pros will keep clients off the juice as long as they think possible. Competition diets and cycles are very complicated during last year's prep my diet changed weekly. My compounds changed several times.
If your really serious about competing you don't need to get your feet wet, try a beginner cycle, and especially worry about money.

To compete your food budget is going to be at least 2x your juice budget.

When your base physique is such that you can contemplate a 12 to 20 week prep and stepping on stage then your going to want a cycle that can carry you through the whole prep time. And if you have fresh virgin receptors the changes will be even more dramatic.

Do not waste your 1st cycle because you are low on funds it's like buying a Ferrari but not being able to afford the maintenance to drive it.

Please note if competition wasn't your goal my advice would be different many members on here want to get stronger lift heavier be healthy lose fat etc all great goals but very very different from a competitors life

 

[Dma378]

Fair points, thank you! I've read about the side effects of both of them and yeah, gyno and shutdown of own test production sound harsh but aren't they mostly preventable with proper during- and post cycle therapy?

One of the reasons why my perception about PH's might be false is that most of the people who write about them also sell them so it is easier to say they doesn't have much side effects cause by that they sell more....

And yup, learning more every day. In fact the reasons why I read and write here is because I want to learn as much as possible before starting a cycle.

No. Test production is guaranteed shut-down with the addition of any exogenous hormone. Bringing it back to normal levels after a cycle is the goal of PCT and use of a SERM.

Side effects of said shut-down can be combatted with additional supplements and even other hormonal compounds, but you will be shut-down.

But yes, depending on the compound, Gyno can be prevented with the proper use of an AI while on cycle, and a SERM and AI in pct.

 

[aaronjohn]

Welcome to AM and thanks for the intro. I think you are to be commended for Searching for an understanding of aas/DS before jumping in. This forum is the most helpful no matter what your research interests are. It would help us to help you if we knew your age, physical stats, and training experience. If you are not 21 do not ask for any cycle advice and do not use ph's. I highly advise waiting until at least 25. I personally waited until 31. With all that out of the way it sounds like you have some decent training experience already. I think your progression of supplement cycles should go along these lines:
Natural anabolics
DHEA/andros
SARMs
Pro hormones
Get 2-3 cycles of natural anabolics before progressing onto an andro cycle, so on and so forth. Good luck on your journey.

LOVE this progression. DHEA/andros are super mild and a good way to get into PHs.

 

[Volvo140G]

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