ex_banana-eater
Member
Does any person out there know of anyone's results using guaiacol (2-methoxyphenol) and phenyl salicylate (2-hydroxybenzoic acid phenyl ester) as solvents?
Solvents dazed mentions
- Thread starter ex_banana-eater
- Start date
Jack Smack
New member
I dissolved Test Prop in melt ethyl lactate and phenyl salicylate. The concentration is stable at about 358mg/ml. The solution is clear and very fluid and is still in a beaker. I have't have time to dilute with any type of oil yet. I will eventually dilute it to 200mg/ml and find a few volunteers to self administer.
What is this I hear about oleic acid possibly being used to increse solubility of short ester hormones? Any info?
What is this I hear about oleic acid possibly being used to increse solubility of short ester hormones? Any info?
ex_banana-eater
Member
More info
Skye
Well-known member
Essay on using Analgesics and Salicylates as solvents for hormones.
First let me give credit were credit is due, I first heard about some of these in an article written by Dazed. Having said that and that by all accounts Dazed is a good man with good products I need to add that I have 2 big problems with his article. First is that he didn’t try any of this himself. If you think about this it is a no brainer. He found the info under an old patent. There is also a lot of old patents for perpetual motion machines. They don’t work ether.
My second complaint is my biggest; proper warnings were not given for the suggested use of these chemicals. They are in fact drugs in there own right. Phenyl Salicylate (Salol) was in fact used for years a pain reliever before aspirin. (Aspirin is derived from phenyl salicylate, reacted with acetic acid to form acetylsalicylic acid, i.e. aspirin) The side affects from the phenyl salicylate are in fact worse then with aspirin. Guaiacol has a similar history. All these types of drugs can be classified as NSAID. All these drugs have their roots back to the mid 19th century. BTW if anyone ever tells that something is advanced medicine for pain you can call it bullshit. IF YOU ARE ALERGIC TO ANY ASPIRIN TYPE PRODUCT THEN YOU WILL BE ALERGIC TO THIS ALSO. DRUG INTERACTIONS MUST BE CHECKED. DO NOT USE IF YOU’RE CURRENTLY USING AN “ECA STACK”. Be aware side affect including blood thinning, pain reduction (Yes, this is a side affect and not always a good one. Heavy lifters should take care), sweating, low body temperature, and other aspirin like side affects.
Now having said all that these solvents are interesting. So far I’ve only used two of them, phenyl salicylate and guaiacol. Had mixed results. Please note that when I speak of these solvents collectively that I am being very general, they cover a wide range of properties. They are strong solvents due largely to having a combination of functional groups. These are usually one carbonyl group with one or more hydroxyl groups. This mixture of functional groups is far more powerful than ether on its own. (Think of the glycol ether/ alcohol combo, nether solvent is that strong by itself but used together is one of the most popular blends used.) Another factor is the placement of the groups, often side by side or at oppositions.
Phenyl Salicylate (Salol) is the odd man out here. The carbonyl group is somewhat recessed by the positioning of the phenyl rings. (Makes a shallow V shape with the carbonyl group in the bottom) That along with a carbonyl equivalent weight of 214 makes for moderate solvent only. Note: the following is my speculation only, I don’t have any hard research to back it up but I believe that the phenyl salicylate works so well because of the recessed carbonyl. This work in a way similar to mixing different esters of testosterone, the peaces literally don’t fit. (If you need a visually image of this think of trying to build a lattice structure with linkin logs, only every other one is one unit too short, you can’t do it) The phenyl salicylate does something similar, by latching onto a molecule with the carbonyl group the shallow v shape is filled and you left with an odd shaped lump that really can’t make any structures from. This is why the hormone/ phenyl salicylate mixture remains liquid even after cooling.
Things I’ve tried with the phenyl salicylate:
Note much because I was soured by my D-bol experiment I haven’t done very much with this. I got 400mg/ml d-bol along with some other things and made a combination shot. This was painless to inject and pain free for the first couple of days then it was terrible. What I think happened was that after the body got rid of the co solvents and hormones what I was left with was pure phenyl salicylate so it recrystalized. (PAIN, and I had it both quads too). I am going to try this one more time with a longer acting hormone and see how it works.
Guaiacol is the methyl ether of pyrocatechin, and is obtained by distilling guaiacum from wood-tar creosote. A strong solvent pure and simple it has some water miscibility to it and high degree of oil solubility as well. It’s a past at room temperature that will melt on your hand. with a carbonyl equivalent weight of 124 it can be used in relatively small amounts witch is a good thing because it’s painful to inject. But to give you an idea of the power of the guaiacol 300mg/ml testosterone propante can be made using .5g guaiacol to 1gram of testosterone propante. While this inject is tolerable it is not pleasant and I would not care to do this every day. Note the pain is independent of the hormone used, 100 mg/ml is the same as 300mg/ml. The only solution that I have gotten that is somewhat comfortable is a water reducible I made with it. See below.
1. 1gram of guaiacol
2. 2grams of D-bol
3. 1.2ml PG
4. .5ml BA
Add the above together and heat until all mixed. Filter thru .2. Here is the neat trick: Premix 1 part distilled water and 1 part PEG 200/400 and mix thourghly. Run through filter until you get 10ml. Shake vigorously. If your powder isn't real pure you may have to heat at this last step.
Option 2: Just did this one last nigh. Mix up all the stuff except the gear and just add the gear at the end. Heat up. The dbol will dissolve. Damn this was easy.
There are dozens of salicylate that could be discussed here but I haven’t tried any of them myself. One of interest is octyl salicylate, which has been reported to be used in an underground lab to make high mg/ml of testosterone propante. Octyl salicylate is pretty much the same thing as Guaiacol with an ester attached to it. I am probably going to try this one and see if it less painful then the guaiacol.
First let me give credit were credit is due, I first heard about some of these in an article written by Dazed. Having said that and that by all accounts Dazed is a good man with good products I need to add that I have 2 big problems with his article. First is that he didn’t try any of this himself. If you think about this it is a no brainer. He found the info under an old patent. There is also a lot of old patents for perpetual motion machines. They don’t work ether.
My second complaint is my biggest; proper warnings were not given for the suggested use of these chemicals. They are in fact drugs in there own right. Phenyl Salicylate (Salol) was in fact used for years a pain reliever before aspirin. (Aspirin is derived from phenyl salicylate, reacted with acetic acid to form acetylsalicylic acid, i.e. aspirin) The side affects from the phenyl salicylate are in fact worse then with aspirin. Guaiacol has a similar history. All these types of drugs can be classified as NSAID. All these drugs have their roots back to the mid 19th century. BTW if anyone ever tells that something is advanced medicine for pain you can call it bullshit. IF YOU ARE ALERGIC TO ANY ASPIRIN TYPE PRODUCT THEN YOU WILL BE ALERGIC TO THIS ALSO. DRUG INTERACTIONS MUST BE CHECKED. DO NOT USE IF YOU’RE CURRENTLY USING AN “ECA STACK”. Be aware side affect including blood thinning, pain reduction (Yes, this is a side affect and not always a good one. Heavy lifters should take care), sweating, low body temperature, and other aspirin like side affects.
Now having said all that these solvents are interesting. So far I’ve only used two of them, phenyl salicylate and guaiacol. Had mixed results. Please note that when I speak of these solvents collectively that I am being very general, they cover a wide range of properties. They are strong solvents due largely to having a combination of functional groups. These are usually one carbonyl group with one or more hydroxyl groups. This mixture of functional groups is far more powerful than ether on its own. (Think of the glycol ether/ alcohol combo, nether solvent is that strong by itself but used together is one of the most popular blends used.) Another factor is the placement of the groups, often side by side or at oppositions.
Phenyl Salicylate (Salol) is the odd man out here. The carbonyl group is somewhat recessed by the positioning of the phenyl rings. (Makes a shallow V shape with the carbonyl group in the bottom) That along with a carbonyl equivalent weight of 214 makes for moderate solvent only. Note: the following is my speculation only, I don’t have any hard research to back it up but I believe that the phenyl salicylate works so well because of the recessed carbonyl. This work in a way similar to mixing different esters of testosterone, the peaces literally don’t fit. (If you need a visually image of this think of trying to build a lattice structure with linkin logs, only every other one is one unit too short, you can’t do it) The phenyl salicylate does something similar, by latching onto a molecule with the carbonyl group the shallow v shape is filled and you left with an odd shaped lump that really can’t make any structures from. This is why the hormone/ phenyl salicylate mixture remains liquid even after cooling.
Things I’ve tried with the phenyl salicylate:
Note much because I was soured by my D-bol experiment I haven’t done very much with this. I got 400mg/ml d-bol along with some other things and made a combination shot. This was painless to inject and pain free for the first couple of days then it was terrible. What I think happened was that after the body got rid of the co solvents and hormones what I was left with was pure phenyl salicylate so it recrystalized. (PAIN, and I had it both quads too). I am going to try this one more time with a longer acting hormone and see how it works.
Guaiacol is the methyl ether of pyrocatechin, and is obtained by distilling guaiacum from wood-tar creosote. A strong solvent pure and simple it has some water miscibility to it and high degree of oil solubility as well. It’s a past at room temperature that will melt on your hand. with a carbonyl equivalent weight of 124 it can be used in relatively small amounts witch is a good thing because it’s painful to inject. But to give you an idea of the power of the guaiacol 300mg/ml testosterone propante can be made using .5g guaiacol to 1gram of testosterone propante. While this inject is tolerable it is not pleasant and I would not care to do this every day. Note the pain is independent of the hormone used, 100 mg/ml is the same as 300mg/ml. The only solution that I have gotten that is somewhat comfortable is a water reducible I made with it. See below.
1. 1gram of guaiacol
2. 2grams of D-bol
3. 1.2ml PG
4. .5ml BA
Add the above together and heat until all mixed. Filter thru .2. Here is the neat trick: Premix 1 part distilled water and 1 part PEG 200/400 and mix thourghly. Run through filter until you get 10ml. Shake vigorously. If your powder isn't real pure you may have to heat at this last step.
Option 2: Just did this one last nigh. Mix up all the stuff except the gear and just add the gear at the end. Heat up. The dbol will dissolve. Damn this was easy.
There are dozens of salicylate that could be discussed here but I haven’t tried any of them myself. One of interest is octyl salicylate, which has been reported to be used in an underground lab to make high mg/ml of testosterone propante. Octyl salicylate is pretty much the same thing as Guaiacol with an ester attached to it. I am probably going to try this one and see if it less painful then the guaiacol.
Ubiquitous
Registered User
Guaiacol.. Phenyl Salicylate... Have you attempted using these as solvents Skye? Not to bump an old thread, but... I'm bumping an old thread.. 
Ubiquitous
Registered User
:rofl: my bad, I missed the part you pointed out that you had tried those two. I know of a few peers who are fond of 'super solvents' such as what Dazed had formulated. I myself just use regular BA/BB... although I had experimented with adding TEA at 1% with my Prop to see if it would quell the soreness..
anyways, thanks for the write up, albeit me being late reading it.
I might try the Guaiacol out if I plan on making higher concentrations in the future.
anyways, thanks for the write up, albeit me being late reading it.
I might try the Guaiacol out if I plan on making higher concentrations in the future.
kwyckemynd00
Registered User
What about (I believe) Ethyl Oleate. I "believe" this is a solvent I've heard of people using for prop solutions up to 200mg/ml pain free.
Any input here?
Any input here?
kwyckemynd00
Registered User
Hey bro, thanks for the link, but you might need to take that link down--dunno if it fits well with board rules. 
kwyckemynd00
Registered User
Yeah, that's a big problem....I contacted lemelange to see if they can offer it cheap. I told them maaaaany BBer clients of theri would be happy. So, I guess I'll hear back.
And Klaus, now that the message is gone, I'll let you know why I said it should go....that was an "open source" board, so technically, it could be against board rules. Just lookin' out for ya.
And Klaus, now that the message is gone, I'll let you know why I said it should go....that was an "open source" board, so technically, it could be against board rules. Just lookin' out for ya.
Ubiquitous
Registered User
Skye said:
It dulled the remnant soreness, and shortened the duration. The onset of the soreness was delayed as well..
akapitbull
New member
Skye did you find any use for the phenyl.S?Skye said:
or Am I better off just getting rid of it!
I would really appreciate your thoughts on this subject?
THANKS:twisted:
akapitbull
New member
Jack smack what was the results of your experiments with Phenyl.S?Jack Smack said:
akapitbull
New member
Can you shed alittle light on this solvent?DR.D said:Phenyl salicylate sux, but benzyl salicylate is a different story.
DR.D
Well-known member
akapitbull said:
Phenyl salicylate is unstable in solutions and requires a melting procedure. The results/solubility are not impressive. Benzyl salicylate is just as good a co-solvent as BB, plus it offers some prolonged local analgesia when formulating painful injections like T1 cyp, Test prop or Tren acetate. I've gone as high as 35% with it, after that it promotes pain like BB will.
Viator
Member
DR.D said:Phenyl salicylate sux, but benzyl salicylate is a different story.
Dr. D,
A while back I was hounding Designer Supps and Dazed for *something, anything* that would keep my 4-OHT-cyp in a painless solution, or a solution at all for that matter. A little birdie told me that the Benzyl Salicylate is the key to getting it into solution, but I can't find it any where.
It's a shame too because my cousin in Antartica unfortunately invested in a but-load of 4OHT-cyp powder back when Matt/DesignerSupps promised they would be offering a Kit to get it into solution after the ban
DR.D
Well-known member
Skye said:
BS is a little thinner than BB, very nice indeed! I have never used OS, plus it's kinda thick. I have tried octyl methoxycinnamate. The sol characteristics are good but it's painful. Balsm Peru oil is a darn good solvent as well (thin too), but the cinnamates just make it too painful I suspect.
DR.D
Well-known member
Viator said:
A research supply sponsor should carry it. I have a Sigma account, but most will not be able to source like that. When I was developing a solvent mix for the 4OHT cyp for Matt, I noticed how well methyl and ethyl salicylate worked, but was too scared to use them at high concentrations. It's how I discovered the usefulness of BS, which is remarkably non-toxic. I posted the final version of my "special solution" for 4OHT cyp here somewhere and at Avant too I think, but a stable and painless 100mg/ml was the best I was ever able to achieve.
Viator
Member
DR.D said:
I tried searching Avant for the recipie. I had it saved as a draft in my Outlook program but my computer crashed and it got lost. You wouldn't happen to have it handy to re-post here would ya? If not, do you think a mix of BA/BB/BS would do the trick, and if so in what percentages? I think Oleic acid might have been in there too?
thanks, -V
Viator
Member
Thanks Toad,
That's the recipie I had saved before my computer crashed. Only thing is, I can't find the B. Salycylate, or the Benzocaine. Is Benzocaine Procaine, or am I thinking of lidocaine. because I have a bunch of procaine powder. I'm gonna search for the B. salycylate and see what I can find.
BTW, are those percentages by weight or volume?
That's the recipie I had saved before my computer crashed. Only thing is, I can't find the B. Salycylate, or the Benzocaine. Is Benzocaine Procaine, or am I thinking of lidocaine. because I have a bunch of procaine powder. I'm gonna search for the B. salycylate and see what I can find.
BTW, are those percentages by weight or volume?
DR.D
Well-known member
Viator said:
These numbers are % by volume. BS is expensive, but the smaller amounts of most solvents are in my experience. That's why a sponsor should carry it! Also, be careful with procaine. Inadvertent injection into a blood vessel is an ugly OD. Seriously, I thought I was going to die one time. Lidocain or the HCl salt work well too, but the % must be reduced to 0.1-0.2 depending on the total amount to be administered. Inadvertent IV administration can cause arrhythmia, but not too serious or alarming in my experience.
Viator
Member
I thought I already posted this...
but I guess it didn't go through.
Dr. D, Skye, if either of you have the necessary components to put together the recipie that toad mentioned I'd gladly pay $30 for only 100 cc's of it. Dazed charges (charged) $20 for his "super solvent, which isn't so super for 4OHT-Cyp. Please PM me at either bb.com of Avant Labs as I haven't gotten around to donating here yet.
I can't get the benzyl salicylate for a good price, and benzocaine is a regulated item so I can't put this together myself.
My only other option is to add it to NaOH to strip the ester, rinse, and use as a transdermal. which would be a major pain in the ass
but I guess it didn't go through.
Dr. D, Skye, if either of you have the necessary components to put together the recipie that toad mentioned I'd gladly pay $30 for only 100 cc's of it. Dazed charges (charged) $20 for his "super solvent, which isn't so super for 4OHT-Cyp. Please PM me at either bb.com of Avant Labs as I haven't gotten around to donating here yet.
I can't get the benzyl salicylate for a good price, and benzocaine is a regulated item so I can't put this together myself.
My only other option is to add it to NaOH to strip the ester, rinse, and use as a transdermal. which would be a major pain in the ass
JonesersRX7
Registered User
Re: dazed
Which times.... :blink: Has happened alot over the past 2 years.
Not sure this time.
wormwood said:
Which times.... :blink: Has happened alot over the past 2 years.
Not sure this time.