So nobody has topical test??

thomaslcudgel

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I've noticed theres plenty of sources (without mentioning namea) that offer tons of goodies. HOWEVER...I've seen topical MENT, Tren but none of the sources actually offer a TD form of just test. Why is that? My wife is against pinning and I'm just trying to find some Test cream to use as a base for my orals....HELP!
 
Renew1

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I've noticed theres plenty of sources (without mentioning namea) that offer tons of goodies. HOWEVER...I've seen topical MENT, Tren but none of the sources actually offer a TD form of just test. Why is that? My wife is against pinning and I'm just trying to find some Test cream to use as a base for my orals....HELP!
Definitely not that could be mentioned on the board.
Just be careful man, this might be considered sourcing, which is against board rules.
 

jrock645

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It’s out there. Or you can buy phloejel ultra and some test p and do it yourself.
 
StarScream66

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You could make your own topical test. Just buy bulk test base powder and then mix it up in a transdermal. Here are some old directions from the people that actually started AM. Some of the sources they mention are shut down, but you can still find the ingredients elsewhere.


This one includes an Excel spreadsheet


Hope that helps,
-SS
 
New guy

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I've noticed theres plenty of sources (without mentioning namea) that offer tons of goodies. HOWEVER...I've seen topical MENT, Tren but none of the sources actually offer a TD form of just test.
It exists, and on some pretty big sources too. Unfortunately the most we can do on this forum is confirm that it does exist because of sourcing rules.
 
StarScream66

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Decramine looks like junk to me. I would never take plain DHEA and there's nothing really special about the other ingredients. I would encourage you to make your own base that will allow MAXIMUM absorption through the dermal layer.
 
Renew1

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Decramine looks like junk to me. I would never take plain DHEA and there's nothing really special about the other ingredients. I would encourage you to make your own base that will allow MAXIMUM absorption through the dermal layer.
Welp, you can say what it looks like to you all you like. There's a lot of guys who've actually had experience with it, who know your opinion is wrong in this case.
 
Rad83

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Decramine looks like junk to me. I would never take plain DHEA and there's nothing really special about the other ingredients. I would encourage you to make your own base that will allow MAXIMUM absorption through the dermal layer.
Start a lab, a company, ‘potentially’ make a better one, get a large following like iconic formulations....Could be very lucrative for ya
 
StarScream66

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Start a lab, a company, ‘potentially’ make a better one, get a large following like iconic formulations....Could be very lucrative for ya
Unfortunately, it's illegal to sell transdermals as a "dietary supplement". That's what happened to Avant Labs and why they got shut down.
 
thomaslcudgel

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For some people, yes.
I'm almost thinking of running some of the TD trest as a base...but I'm not 100 percent sure what a good dosage would be. I've heard 20 mgs a day as a test base...but my only issue with running Trest as a base is that it's a 19 nor compound and could potentially come with a host of sides e2/prolactin related
 
thebigt

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Decramine looks like junk to me. I would never take plain DHEA and there's nothing really special about the other ingredients. I would encourage you to make your own base that will allow MAXIMUM absorption through the dermal layer.
10 years+ and still going strong...better take another look at label. none other than Patrick Arnold brought tran res to fame-put it in 6oxo advaned
Welp, you can say what it looks like to you all you like. There's a lot of guys who've actually had experience with it, who know your opinion is wrong in this case.
dermacrine=10+years and still going strong.
 
thebigt

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I'm almost thinking of running some of the TD trest as a base...but I'm not 100 percent sure what a good dosage would be. I've heard 20 mgs a day as a test base...but my only issue with running Trest as a base is that it's a 19 nor compound and could potentially come with a host of sides e2/prolactin related
trest is potent stuff.
 
StarScream66

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10 years+ and still going strong...better take another look at label. none other than Patrick Arnold brought tran res to fame-put it in 6oxo advaned

dermacrine=10+years and still going strong.
That may be, but they might be advertising it as a lotion, which would bypass FDA regulations. Here's a warning letter that was sent to a company by the FDA for selling transdermal products.

Topical products and products intended to enter the body through the skin or mucosal tissues, such as transdermal or sublingual products, are not dietary supplements. Therefore, your above-listed products are not dietary supplements under section 201(ff) of the Act.

This was written by Rick Collins (the steroid attorney)

A dietary supplement is limited to products that: 1) are intended for ingestion in tablet, capsule, powder, softgel, gelcap, liquid or certain other forms; 2) are not represented as conventional food or as the sole item of a meal or of the diet; and 3) are labeled as dietary supplements. The “certain other forms” cannot include sublingual or topical/transdermal products intended to enter the body through the skin or mucosal tissues.
 
thebigt

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That may be, but they might be advertising it as a lotion, which would bypass FDA regulations. Here's a warning letter that was sent to a company by the FDA for selling transdermal products.




This was written by Rick Collins (the steroid attorney)


your point? this has very little to do with your statement that dermacrine is junk....
 
Rad83

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Yeah its super strong. I hear the TD form of it is supposedly legit for a T base...but I'm almost more inclined to just run decramine since guys on here have sworn by it!
You look pretty jacked already, curious what you’ve ran thus far?
 
thomaslcudgel

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You look pretty jacked already, curious what you’ve ran thus far?
I started off 6 years with Cyanostane....and then I bumped it up to the Vitamin X stack from big Dan's Fitness...its a 2 month quad stack and I cant lie.. that was the roughest thing I've ever ran in terms of lethargy and sides....bit that was my fault for not fully doing my homework first. However, I put on a ton of size and strength during that run. I've also run DMZ and Rad-140 as well.
 
StarScream66

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your point? this has very little to do with your statement that dermacrine is junk....
That wasn't the question. I was asked whether or not it is legal. It being junk is just my opinion. I would not take DHEA as it can cause gyno alone. My point that it is junk has to do with it's ingredient profile and the fact that you can get a MUCH better homebrew formula to make using DMSO and various forms of alcohol that will penetrate the dermal layer much better than any OTC formula will.



First of all, everything is underdosed if you used it alone. We know Chrysin is complete junk and has been proven to do absolutely nothing for estrogen.


See study 15. I can pull up the full study if anyone wants to read it.

If we look at a simple pathway of steroid conversions, you will see how ineffective this formula is.



As you can see, Pregnenolone is a precursor to DHEA. DHEA can then convert to a variety of hormones, including andro, estrogen, cortisol, etc. There's no way to control the pathway DHEA takes, so more than likely, you're just loading yourself up with estrogen.

Finally, the other ingredients for absorption through the skin is lacking. It has alcohol in an unknown amount, dimethyl isosorbide is good for penetrating the skin barrier but again, we don't know how much. Since DHEA, Trans-resveratrol is listed below that in the label at 98%, we must assume the amount of the carrier solution is very low.

7,8-Benzoflavone is a derivative of alpha-Naphthoflavone which may have some AI potential, but the studies are in vitro and we don't know the dosage needed to get the proper effect.


Does dhea get suppressed with PH or aas use ?
When you start using exogenous hormones, your body stops producing ALL hormone synthesis through the cholesterol pathway. So, you're not going to be producing any of the above listed hormones and DHEA would be one of them. That's not to say DHEA would help with PCT. It would probably just suppress natural test production as well, as itself is an exogenous hormone you would be taking.
 
Renew1

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That wasn't the question. I was asked whether or not it is legal. It being junk is just my opinion. I would not take DHEA as it can cause gyno alone. My point that it is junk has to do with it's ingredient profile and the fact that you can get a MUCH better homebrew formula to make using DMSO and various forms of alcohol that will penetrate the dermal layer much better than any OTC formula will.



First of all, everything is underdosed if you used it alone. We know Chrysin is complete junk and has been proven to do absolutely nothing for estrogen.


See study 15. I can pull up the full study if anyone wants to read it.

If we look at a simple pathway of steroid conversions, you will see how ineffective this formula is.



As you can see, Pregnenolone is a precursor to DHEA. DHEA can then convert to a variety of hormones, including andro, estrogen, cortisol, etc. There's no way to control the pathway DHEA takes, so more than likely, you're just loading yourself up with estrogen.

Finally, the other ingredients for absorption through the skin is lacking. It has alcohol in an unknown amount, dimethyl isosorbide is good for penetrating the skin barrier but again, we don't know how much. Since DHEA, Trans-resveratrol is listed below that in the label at 98%, we must assume the amount of the carrier solution is very low.

7,8-Benzoflavone is a derivative of alpha-Naphthoflavone which may have some AI potential, but the studies are in vitro and we don't know the dosage needed to get the proper effect.




When you start using exogenous hormones, your body stops producing ALL hormone synthesis through the cholesterol pathway. So, you're not going to be producing any of the above listed hormones and DHEA would be one of them. That's not to say DHEA would help with PCT. It would probably just suppress natural test production as well, as itself is an exogenous hormone you would be taking.
This isn't oral DHEA.
It isn't suppressive.
I and many other reliable members here have personally used it on various occasions, and it works.

You're gonna book yourself to death, brother.

Don't use it if you don't want to, but it really does work.

Our testimony beats your books for most members here.
Real world experience is stronger than paper and ink.
 
Iwilleattuna

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On paper, it seems like dhea can cause bad estrogen symptoms but in real life you just don't hear about it much .
 
StarScream66

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This isn't oral DHEA.
It isn't suppressive.
I and many other reliable members here have personally used it on various occasions, and it works.

You're gonna book yourself to death, brother.

Don't use it if you don't want to, but it really does work.

Our testimony beats your books for most members here.
Real world experience is stronger than paper and ink.
If it's not suppressive, then it must be because the dose of the DHEA is so low it's not doing anything. Any kind of exogenous hormone - taken by any means, oral, transdermal, through mucous membranes, injected or whatever is going to be suppressive to natural testosterone production.

Serum concentrations of free and total testosterone, estrone, estradiol, estriol, lipids, and liver transaminases were unaffected by supplementation and training, while strength and lean body mass increased significantly and similarly (P < 0.05) in the men treated with placebo and DHEA. These results suggest that DHEA ingestion does not enhance serum testosterone concentrations or adaptations associated with resistance training in young men.

 
StarScream66

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I always wondered if you could supplement with the particular enzymes that promote various prohormones to convert to what you want them to convert to. Like could you take oral 17BHSD and get a higher conversion of DHEA or andro to testosterone directly. I have no idea if these enzymes are orally bioavailable or would get into the liver and do what they're supposed to be doing, but that's another one of my ideas I wanted to experiment with my supplement company I never started... *sigh*
 
Carnivorecon

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I've noticed theres plenty of sources (without mentioning namea) that offer tons of goodies. HOWEVER...I've seen topical MENT, Tren but none of the sources actually offer a TD form of just test. Why is that? My wife is against pinning and I'm just trying to find some Test cream to use as a base for my orals....HELP!
I've seen tostran test gel on something that rhymes with bumtree but i wouldn't call that "sauce" cause what's on there changes all the time right.
 
YoungThor

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I was able to get pharma grade test gel off an older guy who decided he was gonna come off trt and it was a pretty awesome run on its own. If you find it then I’d consider running it solo at a decent dose. If you’re unsatisfied after a couple weeks and have already increased the dose then toss in an oral. But as a guy who’s used sarms, I thought TD test blew all that stuff away.
 
thebigt

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This isn't oral DHEA.
It isn't suppressive.
I and many other reliable members here have personally used it on various occasions, and it works.

You're gonna book yourself to death, brother.

Don't use it if you don't want to, but it really does work.

Our testimony beats your books for most members here.
Real world experience is stronger than paper and ink.
primordial performance brought out dermacrine over 10 years ago...just the fact that the original formula 10 years later is still popular and well regarded by most who have actually tried it is validity to it's effectiveness, imo.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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I always wondered if you could supplement with the particular enzymes that promote various prohormones to convert to what you want them to convert to. Like could you take oral 17BHSD and get a higher conversion of DHEA or andro to testosterone directly. I have no idea if these enzymes are orally bioavailable or would get into the liver and do what they're supposed to be doing, but that's another one of my ideas I wanted to experiment with my supplement company I never started... *sigh*
I think this is were your starting to grasp the big picture. I know you are very well read, so perhaps you should follow up on this. I too have had much interest in this. Fun Fact: you are not the first. LG sciences has been toying with this since they got busted some 15-20 yrs ago. now.. I did not read each of your book long posts in this thread as it tends to make me "gloss over". But Renew1 hit on it a few posts back.. transdermaly (cosmetically) the dose required to get an effect is far less than needed in an oral product... of note for you to look into would be the enzyme rich environment in the upper shoulders and tops of feet. not only is the skin a bit thinner in these areas they also store much of the needed enzymes to make things happen. the resveritol in that product has a lot of science backing it for hormonal optimization and positive estrogen modulation. by inducing the prenenolone in it, youre insuring the DHEA wont back convert, as the body senses that there is no need for more of it. ect ect..
 
YoungThor

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did you ever run sarms without it?
I switched to oral DHEA for a 7 week s4 run and felt fine. But s4 is one of the least suppressive things out there. A lot of people say the bioavailability of oral DHEA is so low that it’s pointless to use. I’m not sure if that’s fact or broscience myth. And you can pick that up at your local rite aid by the way.

I think if you were going to run a single sarm at the recommended dose for about 8 weeks then you’d probably be able to get away with no base. Maybe the last week or two you might start to feel some suppression.
 

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I switched to oral DHEA for a 7 week s4 run and felt fine. But s4 is one of the least suppressive things out there. A lot of people say the bioavailability of oral DHEA is so low that it’s pointless to use. I’m not sure if that’s fact or broscience myth. And you can pick that up at your local rite aid by the way.

I think if you were going to run a single sarm at the recommended dose for about 8 weeks then you’d probably be able to get away with no base. Maybe the last week or two you might start to feel some suppression.
just wondering if you would have felt fine even without the dermacrine?
 
YoungThor

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The pharma grade test gel that I used came with a cap that had a suction cup looking thing on it. You squirt the gel into the suction cup and then apply it to your armpits like you would a deodorant. It was specifically designed to be rubbed under the arms like that. I believe it was designed that way because it absorbs very easily into the armpits (you don’t have to shave). The other reason is that you are very unlikely to accidentally get the gel on a loved one when it’s in your armpits.

Anyway, armpits are a great spot for TD application.
 
YoungThor

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just wondering if you would have felt fine even without the dermacrine?
If I had to guess, I think I would’ve felt fine for 75% of the cycle. I think that last couple weeks would’ve been tough. I think dermacrine might be beneficial more as an estrogen base than a test base. You don’t wanna have no estrogen on cycle. The sarms will fulfill some of the functions of testosterone (libido increase, energy increase, mood boost etc.), but not estrogen. If you have no estrogen at the end of your cycle then you can kiss your libido, energy, and mood goodbye.
 
StarScream66

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I think this is were your starting to grasp the big picture. I know you are very well read, so perhaps you should follow up on this. I too have had much interest in this. Fun Fact: you are not the first. LG sciences has been toying with this since they got busted some 15-20 yrs ago. now.. I did not read each of your book long posts in this thread as it tends to make me "gloss over". But Renew1 hit on it a few posts back.. transdermaly (cosmetically) the dose required to get an effect is far less than needed in an oral product... of note for you to look into would be the enzyme rich environment in the upper shoulders and tops of feet. not only is the skin a bit thinner in these areas they also store much of the needed enzymes to make things happen. the resveritol in that product has a lot of science backing it for hormonal optimization and positive estrogen modulation. by inducing the prenenolone in it, youre insuring the DHEA wont back convert, as the body senses that there is no need for more of it. ect ect..
I have never heard that there are more enzymes in specific areas of the skin that allow more conversion. I would honestly like to see a source on this, because from my understand - as I stated above - it doesn't matter the route of administration. Yes, you use less in a transdermal because it absorbs better than orally, as with all steroid compounds who's molecular weight is under around 300. But regardless, if you injected it, there is no special injection sites with more enzymes that make a compound convert better. All of that happens in the liver (and sometimes kidneys) and does not happen at the site of administration. This is true for prohormones/prodrugs only. They make their conversion to the parent steroid in the liver, whereas things like testosterone simply slowly release from their depot injection site and go directly to bind to the androgen receptors and do all the other things test does. After that, it passes into 2nd pass metabolism and is processed by the liver.

If you took DHEA, bound an ester to it, suspended it in oil and took it, it would work much better than plain jane DHEA. But that isn't to say oral DHEA or pregnenolone isn't orally bioavailable. Because these compounds are very simple in structure, they can be orally absorbed just fine and pass into the liver where they are converted to their downstream hormones. As a matter of fact, pregnenolone is now being looked at as a cure for depression and is being given to mothers who have post partum depression as an injectable form and is working great. This is because pregnenolone is also a neurosteroid.

But, that's a whole other subject.
 
thebigt

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I want to add that I’m also team dermacrine. I’ve used it successfully for 12 week sarms cycles. I felt good the whole time. Never felt suppressed.
thank you!!!
 

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