So, About This Ma Huang...

[The_Old_Guy]

Ok, so after a very funny detour in a thread about Ma Huang and US law, I did what I always try to do and actually *obtain and use* something before talking authoritatively about it.

So I ordered 1lb (2x8oz Bags) of a 10:1 Ma Huang Stem Powder. They were about $30 ea, give or take. This company had a good rep, came recommended, had all the right stuff on it's site (and in this case - *didn't* have some stuff, to skirt US law/regs, LOL) - but I don't own an HPLC machine, so... but I can only assume it wasn't ground up Pine Bark or something.

So I busted out the milligram scale and started really low with the powder, and worked up each dose. Long story short - I'm up to 10g of this stuff in one go, and still don't feel Jack Shjt (ie. my resting pulse rate is 56bpm! LOL).

My next experiment will be making a "Tea" - but this should not matter, there is no magic I can think of that will all of a sudden make 10g go "Oh Wow!" just by steeping it. If it's the same non-reaction, I'll go 15g, then 20g, etc... until I run out. But by this time, it has become COST INNEFECTIVE - when Primatene is $10/Month. (There are 28g in 1 ounce).

This is probably why the US Gov doesn't give a shjt about these importers - the stuff is weak. I can only speculate that 'back in the day' of the original 'Ripped Fuel' etc... the companies took 20lbs of stems and did full spectrum, 99% extracts per bottle or something - I'm sure this stuff was dirt cheap.

Too bad, but stick to Primatene/Bronkaid or importing E-HCL from outside the US (after testing with an Ephedrine Test Kit from Amazon)

This concludes your Sunday Morning BuzzKill.

 

[Brandinooooo]

Ok, so after a very funny detour in a thread about Ma Huang and US law, I did what I always try to do and actually *obtain and use* something before talking authoritatively about it.

So I ordered 1lb (2x8oz Bags) of a 10:1 Ma Huang Stem Powder. They were about $30 ea, give or take. This company had a good rep, came recommended, had all the right stuff on it's site (and in this case - *didn't* have some stuff, to skirt US law/regs, LOL) - but I don't own an HPLC machine, so... but I can only assume it wasn't ground up Pine Bark or something.

So I busted out the milligram scale and started really low with the powder, and worked up each dose. Long story short - I'm up to 10g of this stuff in one go, and still don't feel Jack Shjt (ie. my resting pulse rate is 56bpm! LOL).

My next experiment will be making a "Tea" - but this should not matter, there is no magic I can think of that will all of a sudden make 10g go "Oh Wow!" just by steeping it. If it's the same non-reaction, I'll go 15g, then 20g, etc... until I run out. But by this time, it has become COST INNEFECTIVE - when Primatene is $10/Month. (There are 28g in 1 ounce).

This is probably why the US Gov doesn't give a shjt about these importers - the stuff is weak. I can only speculate that 'back in the day' of the original 'Ripped Fuel' etc... the companies took 20lbs of stems and did full spectrum, 99% extracts per bottle or something - I'm sure this stuff was dirt cheap.

Too bad, but stick to Primatene/Bronkaid or importing E-HCL from outside the US (after testing with an Ephedrine Test Kit from Amazon)

This concludes your Sunday Morning BuzzKill.

"Obtain and Use"

Hahaha that's awesome.

I haven't tried Ma Huang but a quick search showed the stem only containing .05-2.5% active alkaloids. So with the median being ~1.5%, you would need like 20g for 25mg.

Now I literally just woke up so I'm probably not thinking straight yet.

 

[dvw]

Original ripped fuel w/ Mau huang was very very strong. I remember a mau huang liquid extract also. Just 1 ml and i was jacked!

 

[The_Old_Guy]

"Obtain and Use"

Hahaha that's awesome.

I haven't tried Ma Huang but a quick search showed the stem only containing .05-2.5% active alkaloids. So with the median being ~1.5%, you would need like 20g for 25mg.

Now I literally just woke up so I'm probably not thinking straight yet.

And even if correct, some loose math says that gets you about 14 "doses" for $30.... Hahahahaha - rip off.

 

[Brandinooooo]

And even if correct, some loose math says that gets you about 14 "doses" for $30.... Hahahahaha - rip off.

Majorly. You could get a bunch of bulk (if reputable and trusted source) and do an a/b extraction. Only problem is, ephedrine isn't the only active alkaloid in Ma Huang.

 

[f4iguy]

Bronkiad and Primatine FTW! Stupid Guafinesin though...

 

[boulon]

Im looking for this, thanks old guy for this topic,,,,
You can see another plant with ephedrine, sida cordifolia, but same problem the quantity of eph is not garanted..
The price of eph hcl is too high because illegal

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Im looking for this, thanks old guy for this topic,,,,
You can see another plant with ephedrine, sida cordifolia, but same problem the quantity of eph is not garanted..
The price of eph hcl is too high because illegal

Yup - it's a quantity thing, I believe. It's always possible that the *quality* sucked, but their Kratom is legit... I wish we had someone from the manufacturing side, that was around back when the 'Ripped Fuels' etc... were being produced - I bet they used a ton of stems and extracted to a really high percentage - to fill those caps - think "95% Forskolin", or "99% Yohimbine HCL", etc...

Bottom line is that IMO, unless you post your exact procedure for how you used powdered Ma Huang, and how much - *and* your before and after blood pressure and resting pulse rate numbers - I ain't buying that this stuff does much. You can also read on other boards not related to fitness, about people making "Tea" etc... and saying two things: 1. It's about the same feeling as a strong cup of Coffee. and 2. It is nowhere close to what they felt 'back in the day', taking 'Yellow Jackets', etc...

 

[VaughnTrue]

I doubt companies back in the day were actually using the herb extract despite listing in on the label as such. It's always cheaper to synthesize than to extract except in extremely rare instances.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

I doubt companies back in the day were actually using the herb extract despite listing in on the label as such. It's always cheaper to synthesize than to extract except in extremely rare instances.

DMT must be one of those rare cases haha

 

[VaughnTrue]

DMT must be one of those rare cases haha

if there was a high enough demand, DMT HCl would be significantly cheaper than extracted DMT

 

[Juicedeez utz]

if there was a high enough demand, DMT HCl would be significantly cheaper than extracted DMT

Last time I extrated some dimethyltriptamine it cost me about £20 to extract about 1g, no too bad considering the price of it in the UK haha

 

[mase1]

I agree now we have to assume the potential of altered eca back in the day. Much like dmaa of today, just a little different. Not as much real amphetamines my guess? But current e/c and dmaa works just not like I remember.

 

[vujade]

Ive had tea made from Muang, and it almost had a relaxing sedative type quality.
This was over 20 years ago.

 

[Jiigzz]

The amount of alkaloids is very low. You need a crazy dose to get near what you'd like to actually use.

Not surprising, if it weren't that way then it would be controlled

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Ok, so after a very funny detour in a thread about Ma Huang and US law, I did what I always try to do and actually *obtain and use* something before talking authoritatively about it.

So I ordered 1lb (2x8oz Bags) of a 10:1 Ma Huang Stem Powder. They were about $30 ea, give or take. This company had a good rep, came recommended, had all the right stuff on it's site (and in this case - *didn't* have some stuff, to skirt US law/regs, LOL) - but I don't own an HPLC machine, so... but I can only assume it wasn't ground up Pine Bark or something.

So I busted out the milligram scale and started really low with the powder, and worked up each dose. Long story short - I'm up to 10g of this stuff in one go, and still don't feel Jack Shjt (ie. my resting pulse rate is 56bpm! LOL).

My next experiment will be making a "Tea" - but this should not matter, there is no magic I can think of that will all of a sudden make 10g go "Oh Wow!" just by steeping it. If it's the same non-reaction, I'll go 15g, then 20g, etc... until I run out. But by this time, it has become COST INNEFECTIVE - when Primatene is $10/Month. (There are 28g in 1 ounce).

This is probably why the US Gov doesn't give a shjt about these importers - the stuff is weak. I can only speculate that 'back in the day' of the original 'Ripped Fuel' etc... the companies took 20lbs of stems and did full spectrum, 99% extracts per bottle or something - I'm sure this stuff was dirt cheap.

Too bad, but stick to Primatene/Bronkaid or importing E-HCL from outside the US (after testing with an Ephedrine Test Kit from Amazon)

This concludes your Sunday Morning BuzzKill.

The old 10 parts maltodextrin to 1 part ephedra plant.

At 10g, even at the lowest measurement for alkaloids (0.5%) there should have been 50mg actives which you should have felt.

 

[mbonheur]

Interesting, I always buy those 250g bags of Ma Huang for like 7$ directly from China and I definitely already feel a buzz from a teaspoon (3-5g), prepared as tea.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

The old 10 parts maltodextrin to 1 part ephedra plant.

At 10g, even at the lowest measurement for alkaloids (0.5%) there should have been 50mg actives which you should have felt.

I guess anything is possible. I can't visually detect it, and it is bitter as fuark - maybe a couple steps down from Grape Seed Extract (the worst IMO). Also sort of like that Vemoherb Tribulus. Used 15g today in a natural coffee filter, closed with a rubber band to make a bag - the stuff is fine, the bag was almost empty of the herb after 15 min - made it through the filter. No residue in the cup though, it basically just dissolves. My pits are a little sweaty and I'm tapping my feet - but A. It's summer now, and like 78 degrees in here. And B. I also had 3Tbs of Nescafe' Instant Coffee. I also may be desensitized? It's not like even Albuterol makes me go "holy cow!" Ya know?

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Interesting, I always buy those 250g bags of Ma Huang for like 7$ directly from China and I definitely already feel a buzz from a teaspoon (3-5g), prepared as tea.

You in the US? Send me 5g. I may need to see if there is a China Town in Detroit - and go get some local. I have my doubts that doing anything with the plant will equal the pre-2004 supplements. VaughnTrue may be right - the ephedrine, pseudoephedrine (isoephedrine), norpseudoephedrine (cathine), norephedrine, methylephedrine, methylpseudoephedrine - may have been synthetic even back then?

 

[mbonheur]

You in the US? Send me 5g. I may need to see if there is a China Town in Detroit - and go get some local. I have my doubts that doing anything with the plant will equal the pre-2004 supplements. VaughnTrue may be right - the ephedrine, pseudoephedrine (isoephedrine), norpseudoephedrine (cathine), norephedrine, methylephedrine, methylpseudoephedrine - may have been synthetic even back then?

No, I am not. But I guess you could drop another 7$, shipping included, and try it yourself.

It is not ephedrine HCL, so I would lower my expectations. Does it help for hunger, a cold , etc. yes it does. And since you are not feeling anything from a lot of products, you can always increase the dose. Otherwise you wasted another 7$, could be worse

 

[The_Old_Guy]

No, I am not. But I guess you could drop another 7$, shipping included, and try it yourself.

It is not ephedrine HCL, so I would lower my expectations. Does it help for hunger, a cold , etc. yes it does. And since you are not feeling anything from a lot of products, you can always increase the dose. Otherwise you wasted another 7$, could be worse

Right, but even though it's been 30 years - I swear the Ephedra supps of the 90's were like "holy phuck!" - maybe I'm remembering wrong? Weider had this one called 'Heat' that was a Chocolate Raspberry powder (absolutely WORST tasting supplement of all time, full stop) that knocked you on yous a$$.

 

[mbonheur]

Right, but even though it's been 30 years - I swear the Ephedra supps of the 90's were like "holy phuck!" - maybe I'm remembering wrong? Weider had this one called 'Heat' that was a Chocolate Raspberry powder (absolutely WORST tasting supplement of all time, full stop) that knocked you on yous a$$.

Yes but this was not some ma Huang Tea in capsules

I don't even want to know what was in there. Anyways, it was standardized to something, which is not the case for bulk herbs (at least in this case)

 

[carguy123]

You in the US? Send me 5g. I may need to see if there is a China Town in Detroit - and go get some local. I have my doubts that doing anything with the plant will equal the pre-2004 supplements. VaughnTrue may be right - the ephedrine, pseudoephedrine (isoephedrine), norpseudoephedrine (cathine), norephedrine, methylephedrine, methylpseudoephedrine - may have been synthetic even back then?

I take it you are in Michigan? No China town in Detroit, but you spend a few minutes down there and you are bound to be offered something much strong than some Ma Huang

 

[carguy123]

You in the US? Send me 5g. I may need to see if there is a China Town in Detroit - and go get some local. I have my doubts that doing anything with the plant will equal the pre-2004 supplements. VaughnTrue may be right - the ephedrine, pseudoephedrine (isoephedrine), norpseudoephedrine (cathine), norephedrine, methylephedrine, methylpseudoephedrine - may have been synthetic even back then?

I take it you are in Michigan? No China town in Detroit, but you spend a few minutes down there and you are bound to be offered something much strong than some Ma Huang

 

[mbonheur]

Felt the first signs of a cold, steeped 2g of Ma Huang tea (the stems you buy on Aliexpress) in a cup for 10 minutes and I am good to go again. I forgot how strong this stuff is, at least for me.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Stems may be the only way to go then, the powdered "extract" from OB, isn't. But F that PITA shjt - I just grabbed a few boxes of Primatene Also, thanks for the pic of the stems - me wonders how the stems are green, but the powder is reddish brown? LOL!

BTW, I tested my UK source of Ephedrine with the Test kit: The good news is that unlike the other user who got NO COLOR AT ALL compared to a lavender/purple Primatene control from his source..... I got a LIGHT BLUE. I have to contact the seller and see what he says. It's in the same spectrum, but it ain't purple. No PMs please.

 

[boulon]

For 2 g for you how many eph???

 

[mbonheur]

For 2 g for you how many eph???

Nobody knows, at least it should be 12mg and at most 54mg, but only estimated on what is common for Ma Huang tea and there are a lot of other alkaloids like Pseudoephedrine in it. And as tea, who knows how much ephedrine you get.

I did trial and error, and 2g are fine for me, but I do not use it as "cutting" supplement. It definitely suppresses appetite and helps with asthma/colds though and it costs only a few bucks for 250g

 

[Stimguy]

Damn man becareful with that **** you might hit a hot spot and all of a sudden Kaboom! 200mg of e-hcl

 

[mbonheur]

I don't plan to chew and swallow 10g at once, I will be fine. Just like all the Chinese people who have used it for hundreds of years.

 

[boulon]

I think the range for 2g is 1mg up to 5mg,,,
In review on aliexpress, a man has used 25g

This is first time I drink ephedra sinica tea. Smells and tastes bad, but it works! Before I have used ma huang capsules. I put 25 grams of tea to 3 dl of hot water, works enough for me. Cheers me up pretty good. Buzzzzzz!!!

 

[mbonheur]

I think the range for 2g is 1mg up to 5mg,,,
In review on aliexpress, a man has used 25g

No, the concentration is between 1-5% and there are 60-90% alkaloids.

So for 1g, 10 to 50mg, hence between 6-9mg to 30-45 mg per gram of Ma Huang tea (rather less because it is tea and not consumed directly, so it should be 3% at most according to many papers). In the academic literature, they generally found between 10-42mg/g which seems about right.

And I call bull**** on this review. I took 5g once and could almost not handle it.

 

[sandpig]

Ma Huang was the bomb back in the day. I had no idea you could still find it.

I try to stay away from stims these days except for leg day.

 

[boulon]

You eat that lfmao or as tea?
Mbonheur are you french?

 

[mbonheur]

You eat that lfmao or as tea?
Mbonheur are you french?

Belgian

I don't know if you were asking this question to me, but I only drink it as tea. And I am also 100% sure about the numbers that I outlined above.

 

[boulon]

I talk to you le belge lfmao
T'es sur mec de tes chiffres?
xD
I have seen a lot of studies about this and it's probably the truth, also it s very dangerous 25g???

 

[mbonheur]

I talk to you le belge lfmao
T'es sur mec de tes chiffres?
xD
I have seen a lot of studies about this and it's probably the truth, also it s very dangerous 25g???

Yes, I am sure, here is a document for instance, also stating between 10-42mg per gram of Ma Huang. https://www.google.be/url?sa=t&********web&rct=j&url=https://ec.europa.eu/food/sites/food/files/safety/docs/labelling_nutrition-vitamins_minerals-sa_ephedra_supp_en.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiS8M-c-PnUAhUQZ1AKHX8ACzMQFgghMAA&usg=AFQjCNF4TFWBMwJuT-6Rs1T5hgItyhhK4Q

Or just Google "scientific assessment of ephedra species", it is a document by the EC, Federal Institute for Risk Assessment

So 25g seems very dangerous. Even a conservative guess would be 250mg of ephedrine alkaloids

 

[boulon]

I have just ordered one paquet 250g for 7,5$ from ali