slin not so powerful ?

[french_muscle]

"From the very onset let me say that I cannot in good conscience recommend that a body builder use insulin. This trend started a few years ago when some prominent people touted insulin as the mother of all anabolic hormones. Certainly if this were the case, type-II diabetics using huge amounts of insulin would not be bulging with fat, but instead bulging with muscles. Insulin is not anabolic in adult humans. Although extreme hyperinsulinemia has been shown to stimulate protein synthesis in isolated limb infusion experiments (13), these anabolic properties are ultimately the result of insulin binding to IGF-1 receptors. It was also used in a last ditch attempt to get GH to work, the rational being that maybe GH wasn’t working because of the concomitant insulin resistance. Unfortunately taking more and more insulin to combat GH induced insulin resistance leads to secondary negative side effects associated with hyperinsulinemia. Hyperinsulinemia causes the smooth muscles in your blood vessels to grow until the vessel openings become too small, predisposing yourself to a heart attack. By the way, the leading cause of death of type-II diabetics using insulin is from cardiovascular problems. In general, most bodybuilders are fooled by the tremendous increase in glycogen and water storage, making them feel "fuller". The natural insulinogenic effect of carbohydrates combined with a fast protein like whey isolate is sufficiently anabolic in high quantities to induce dramatic glucose and amino acid uptake in muscle tissue. I can’t say as though I blame people though, when the gains stop coming and you’ve just taken out a second mortgage to pay for this GH, you find yourself willing to try anything. Nonetheless, throwing caution to the wind is not the answer."

opinions ? :jaw:

 

[Nitrox]

This argument doesn't hold much water for me. The cardiovascular considerations are thought to come about from the heart no longer being able to use glucose for energy not from the actual insulin use. Proper blood sugar control is more likely the deciding factor here. Type 2 diabetics who are not on insulin usually have sufficient production remaining to provide adequate glucose transport for normal cardivascular function.

As far as the performance benefits go, I think it depends on how much insulin your own body produces naturally as it can vary. A person who has a hard time putting on weight may benefit from insulin use whereas someone who is an easy gainer may not.

 

[jonny21]

The cardiovascular considerations are thought to come about from the heart no longer being able to use glucose for energy not from the actual insulin use. Proper blood sugar control is more likely the deciding factor here.

It is the poor blood glucose control that leads to cardiovascular issues. Rollercoaster Blood glucose levels damage vascular system. Angiopathy can occur if the Blood Sugar Control System fails to function properly. High Glucose concentrations in Veinous blood have been directly related in a causal way to the permeability of the Vascular system. The chronic elevated Glucose levels are implicated in the increased permeability of Vascular Disease.

Neuropathy is another condition found frequently in uncontrolled diabetics.

The conversion of glucose into triglycerides is another possible risk factor which increases risk for atherosclorosis. I have seen cases where an uncontrolled diabetic's Left Anterior Descending (LAD) artery went from ~20% occluded to ~90% occluded within 6 months. The cardiologist attributed this directly to the uncontrolled blood sugars.