Sleep Help

Slims

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Haven't been sleeping to well lately, which is really wearing me out and hindering progress. I've tried a lot of the self help stuff, like breathing techniques, cutting off screen use an hour or so before bed etc, but nothing has helped so far.
I'm looking for sleep supp recommendations and opinions/experiences with herbals, such as Valerian Root extracts.
 
TrenQuagmire

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Have you considered trying melatonin ? It’s helped me in the past. I like to take 10 mg 1 hour before bed. No more than 10mg or you’ll just waste your time and money speeding up a tolerance build up.
 
Wobmarvel

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Anethetized by blackstone labs. I'm not kidding. It's possibly their only supplement that is still legit.
 
HIT4ME

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IMO - start with the basics. Some Zinc, Magnesium and B6 (ZMA).

A lot of people are deficient in Magnesium and it makes a BIG difference.

My next step is to add in some GABA (500-2000 mg) and/or Melatonin (depends on the goal...for sleep 1-3 mg is all you need)- both can have additional health benefits beyond just sleep.

Glycine can be added to any of the above and is also very under appreciated.

I try to avoid most other items for anything other than occasional use. Everything above is pretty much healthy and will work most of the time..
 

Slims

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Have you considered trying melatonin ?
Melatonin is prescription only here in the UK. The estimated wait time to see my GP is 4 weeks.
Ashwagandha (ksm-66)
I already take 400mg of KSM-66
IMO - start with the basics. Some Zinc, Magnesium and B6 (ZMA).
My next step is to add in some GABA (500-2000 mg)
I already take 50mg of Zinc and 1g of magnesium daily, plus 10,000iu of Vitamin D3...which is also touted to help.
 
paul56778

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Most herbal based supps do not work for me, i have tried one from Warrior known as Dream which is supposed to be quite an effective sleep aid but just provides me with a calm mood, i also used phenibut in the past with good effects at 2 grams 2 hours pre bed, also DNA anabolics Max Zzz which has the ingredient included in Kirkland Sleep Aid known as Doxylamine Succinate which always works well for me at a dose of 1 tab or 25mgs pre bed, i have tried taking 50-75 mgs but more does not provide better sleep and works in the opposite way making me more alert and keeping me up all night. Overall of the many sleep aids i have tried herbal and pharmaceutical based Doxylamine Succinate has been the best and i find i never build a tolerance to it allowing 1 tablet to always work well.
 
HIT4ME

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Melatonin is prescription only here in the UK. The estimated wait time to see my GP is 4 weeks.

I already take 400mg of KSM-66


I already take 50mg of Zinc and 1g of magnesium daily, plus 10,000iu of Vitamin D3...which is also touted to help.
What form of magnesium? Oxide?

Try taking 450 mg of the magnesium (I like magnesium glycinate a lot because it kills two birds with one stone and has a better absorption rate than oxide) and 25 mg of zinc maybe 30 minutes before sleep. In my experience this will not help me get to sleep faster, but it does help relax me and I REALLY notice that I wake up much less while I'm using it.

Also, try avoiding taking the magnesium along with calcium.

What is going on that is keeping you awake? Lots of thoughts, mind racing, anxiety? Just not tired? Has anything changed during the day? Are you sleeping later? Waking up earlier?
 
HIT4ME

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If you want to go the drug route - diphenhydramine (benedryl) is a good go-to, but again not for all the time.

Ketotifen will make you sleep for 10 hours, it's like Benedryl on steroids IMO.

If it's a matter of your sleep cycle just being messed up, it's too bad you can't just get some melatonin.
 

Slims

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Magnesium Chelate 400mg and Magnesium Threonate 200mg with 20mg zinc 45 minutes before bed.
Sleeping pattern hasn't changed, I'm still waking up at the same time and going to bed at the same time. I am tired, becomming exhausted, but I just can't sleep. Even when I do manage to fall asleep I'm awake again an hour or so later.
 
HIT4ME

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Magnesium Chelate 400mg and Magnesium Threonate 200mg with 20mg zinc 45 minutes before bed.
Sleeping pattern hasn't changed, I'm still waking up at the same time and going to bed at the same time. I am tired, becomming exhausted, but I just can't sleep. Even when I do manage to fall asleep I'm awake again an hour or so later.
Is the KSM-66 a new addition? Do you take that in the morning, or near sleep?

If you are getting that exhausted and can't sleep I would try to get to sleep early one night and hit some benedryl or ketotifen and see if that helps you "reset" a little.

What about your caffeine intake? Any other drugs or supplements? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand anything I may miss over the internet. I know a lot of times people get exhausted and start using stimulants during the day to keep going....which makes it difficult to sleep.

2 grams of GABA can also be very helpful, but given your exhaustion I would get some benedryl or ketotifen and force some sleep if possible. Phenibut may be useful here...but it can be addictive and you build tolerance fast.
 

Slims

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200mg of KSM-66 when I get home from work and another 200mg about an hour before bed.
What ingredient am I looking for in the Benedryl? A lot of medications differ in the UK from the US.
It's getting harder to resist, but caffeine and stin intake is very low, nothing above the rare spoon full of normal coffee and I normally stick to decaff. Same for pre-workouts, all low-non-stim.
I'd like to avoid Pheibut if possible and rather stick to herbals. I have a tendancy for supplement addiction.
 
HIT4ME

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200mg of KSM-66 when I get home from work and another 200mg about an hour before bed.
What ingredient am I looking for in the Benedryl? A lot of medications differ in the UK from the US.
It's getting harder to resist, but caffeine and stin intake is very low, nothing above the rare spoon full of normal coffee and I normally stick to decaff. Same for pre-workouts, all low-non-stim.
I'd like to avoid Pheibut if possible and rather stick to herbals. I have a tendancy for supplement addiction.
Benedryl = Diphenhydramine.

Like I said, Ketotifen is even stronger, IME. If you can find some of that....you will be out for 9-10 hours solid. When you wake up on Ketotifen though....you will be fuzzy for about 2-3 hours. But if you haven't had any sleep at all, it's worth it. I use it sometimes on the weekends when I have been missing a lot of sleep or something.

Straight GABA at about 2 grams also puts me out.

Also - it sounds like you're making your own Zinc/Magnesium mix - the B6 shouldn't be overlooked. P5P is a good form.

I would drop the KSM if it were me. I think it's a bit over rated TBH, and some people become "energized" when they take it.
 
HIT4ME

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Slims

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How "fuzzy" are we talking here, safe to drive fuzzy or don't drive fuzzy?
I take 200mg of B6 with my zinc+Mag mix 45 mins before bed.

BSL's Anesthetized has 3g of GABA and 2g of Phenibut
 

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Magnesium as above is a great recommendation.

Hands down though, amnes1a by olympus labs. For me, this is the best supp I have ever used. You don't want to become reliant on phenibut
 

Slims

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Magnesium as above is a great recommendation.

Hands down though, amnes1a by olympus labs. For me, this is the best supp I have ever used. You don't want to become reliant on phenibut
Amnes1a had Melatonin in it, so it's not available in the UK
 

dbenj7

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Amnes1a had Melatonin in it, so it's not available in the UK
Same issue in aus but I got it here ok. That’s a pity man, it’s honestly an amazing supp. I have had sleep issues for years so feel your pain
 
SFreed

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My two go to sleep supps are Dream n Grow and Sedation, if they're available to you. Since Sedation has melatonin I'm assuming it's not available.
 
HIT4ME

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How "fuzzy" are we talking here, safe to drive fuzzy or don't drive fuzzy?
I take 200mg of B6 with my zinc+Mag mix 45 mins before bed.

BSL's Anesthetized has 3g of GABA and 2g of Phenibut
Ummm....there have been times where I probably shouldnt have been driving within 90 minutes of waking up...but I have. I wouldnt go on a long trip. Haha
 
Ynn3kc1

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Melatonin tends to give me bad dreams, benadryl helps me fall asleep, but staying asleep is harder for me personally, and I recently started If 2-10, I now can get to sleep, but wake up at least twice and it may sound weird but I keep a couple of dumbbells I my room and sometimes it helps me get my energy out, or breathing excercises/meditation, if my minds racing I'll write down my thoughts like to do lists, pros and cons of the day list, short/long term goals, or stuff that's bothering me. sounds dumb but sometimes it helps just to get outta my head. And if all else fails, reading usually helps. but with the fasting, I seem to wake up at like 7-9am really hungry and I'm up a couple hours, then I get super tired which sucks bc I should be doing some fasted workout to make it really count. I'm hoping my body will get used to the new schedule, not to change the subject, just seems like I'm tired a lot which sux. I feel your pain.
 
booneman77

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While it's not directly a "sleep supp" per se, SNS Growth factor XT seems to have an almost universally positive impact on sleep for everyone. Its purpose is deeper, mroe restful sleep and the gh/recovery benefits that come along with it. It could be a great help in both getting to and staying alseep while also helping build some more muscle in the process!
 
EMPIREMIND

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Personally I tend to go with 10mg melatonan dose and I usually knock out no issues. During allergy season, now for me, I take 50mg benedryl and that puts me down and relieves my allergies.

If you need more than simple melatonan, Chaos and Pain has "Hypnos" which is part of thier Olympus Series. It's formula is rediculous, I have been eyeing it for a while now... If you interested there is a 25% discount code nfl25 which can be used on Hypnos and rest of the products @ chaosandpain.com

Each serving has:

Phenibut – 500mg: An analog of GABA. It has the awesome power of being able to cross over the blood brain barrier! Phenibt doesn’t pay any tolls!

GABA – 500mg: A calming neurotransmitter that is also responsible for muscle tone regulation. Turns off the brain’s light switch, while toning up your body!

Magnesium Aspartate – 250mg: Vital for GABA receptors to function properly. Helps you get the most out of Phenibut and GABA.

Valerian Root Extract – 200mg: An herb used to battle insomnia to the death, while bringing forth Lucid Dreaming!

L-Dopa 98% - 50mg: Precursor to dopamine, a neurotransmitter that plays a vital role in sleep, sexual desire, memory, mood, motivation and attention. I once knew a friend who completed a “Hat-Trick” by using L-Dopa!

Hops – 50mg: Makes your favorite “Happy Hour” beverage taste awesome, and aids with sleep.

Passionflower 10:1 – 30mg: An herb that fights for your right to sleep, without any hangover effects!

Melatonin – 5mg: The king of sleep supplements. This hormone is released by the pineal gland when it is dark outside! Don’t be “3rd Eye Blind,” take your Hypnos tonight!
 
Wobmarvel

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Anethetized still beats these hands down. You can take a quarter of a scoop and still get 500mg phenibut just under a gram of gabba plus all the other stuff and if you take it every other day to help stave off reliance one tub is gonna last you 8 months lol. Add melatonin from the other source I sent you. 5mg per pill at 100 pills you would need about two bottles to cover the 8 months and that's almost using it every day so your about £95 every 8 months.
 
Jiigzz

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My nightly cocktail:

SNS ZMA
KSM
SNS LOLA (very underrated, has actual human data for helping sleep in shift workers)

Definitely improves the sleep quality that I get, and the dreams are freaking insane lol
 

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My nightly cocktail:

SNS ZMA
KSM
SNS LOLA (very underrated, has actual human data for helping sleep in shift workers)

Definitely improves the sleep quality that I get, and the dreams are freaking insane lol
What is lola?
 
Jiigzz

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Ashwagandha is the baby. Lovely solid sleep, good dreams, no grogginess. GABA is lovely stuff too. (Powder off eBay not Holland and Barrett crap)
 

BBiceps

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Most herbal based supps do not work for me, i have tried one from Warrior known as Dream which is supposed to be quite an effective sleep aid but just provides me with a calm mood, i also used phenibut in the past with good effects at 2 grams 2 hours pre bed, also DNA anabolics Max Zzz which has the ingredient included in Kirkland Sleep Aid known as Doxylamine Succinate which always works well for me at a dose of 1 tab or 25mgs pre bed, i have tried taking 50-75 mgs but more does not provide better sleep and works in the opposite way making me more alert and keeping me up all night. Overall of the many sleep aids i have tried herbal and pharmaceutical based Doxylamine Succinate has been the best and i find i never build a tolerance to it allowing 1 tablet to always work well.
I think I read somewhere that Doxylamine and such is not actually good for REM sleep, I could be wrong (I hope I am because I like it), anyone that knows more might be able to explain it better, otherwise that’s the way to go because it works.
 

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I use refuge by outbreak nutrition at half a dose (500mg phenibut) It’s good stuff, the full actually didn’t make me sleepy, maybe it would now? It’s also a ZMA supplement with other stuff.
I also have a supplement called valerian nerve that is valerian and wild lettuce leaf. I haven’t taken it in awhile as refuge is good. When taken together I did not like these 2 supplements.
 
THOR 70

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Try going camping for 2-3 days and reset your circadian rhythm. Grounding is also something you can research. Hit4me got you covered sup wise tho
 
Piledahlaren

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Benadryl is amazing when you really need to sleep!
Just ordered 5 bottles Olympus Labs Ashwagandha hope its working good for my sleep
 

Slims

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Ashwagandha is the baby. Lovely solid sleep, good dreams, no grogginess. GABA is lovely stuff too. (Powder off eBay not Holland and Barrett crap)
Benadryl is amazing when you really need to sleep!
Just ordered 5 bottles Olympus Labs Ashwagandha hope its working good for my sleep
Ashwagandha (KSM-66) hasn't done much for me sleep wise.
I have order a tub of BSL's Anesthetized, as recommended by Wobmarvel and backed by ingredients suggested by others. I'll update in a week to let you know how it works out
 
Wobmarvel

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Ashwagandha (KSM-66) hasn't done much for me sleep wise.
I have order a tub of BSL's Anesthetized, as recommended by Wobmarvel and backed by ingredients suggested by others. I'll update in a week to let you know how it works out
I think you will like it. Just be wise when using it as you will get addicted. It's nothing to be scared off however I've double scooped it before (which is mental) but I like doing all kinds of weird experiments with my sups. On weeks I have really bad trouble sleeping ill go 1 scoop first night, half scoop second night then one or two nights off then repeat. I find this works better than one night on one night off. If I'm not too bad ill use it only maybe one or two nights per week if I feel extra tired after work. Make sure you give yourself enough time too. Dont go out clubbing or stay up till 2 in the morning and neck a scoop if you have to be up for work at 7 am. You will be a member of the walking dead. I have young kids so I'm up at 6:30 every day and I won't take any after 10pm the night before unless I have a day off and can afford to be a bit groggy. It also doesn't work well at countering high stim preworkouts if you work out late at night. I feel it's wasted as it has minimal effect your better just to suck that night up without it and take some the following night and give yourself at least an 8 hour window for sleep.
 

Slims

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I think you will like it. Just be wise when using it as you will get addicted. It's nothing to be scared off however I've double scooped it before (which is mental) but I like doing all kinds of weird experiments with my sups. On weeks I have really bad trouble sleeping ill go 1 scoop first night, half scoop second night then one or two nights off then repeat. I find this works better than one night on one night off. If I'm not too bad ill use it only maybe one or two nights per week if I feel extra tired after work. Make sure you give yourself enough time too. Dont go out clubbing or stay up till 2 in the morning and neck a scoop if you have to be up for work at 7 am. You will be a member of the walking dead. I have young kids so I'm up at 6:30 every day and I won't take any after 10pm the night before unless I have a day off and can afford to be a bit groggy. It also doesn't work well at countering high stim preworkouts if you work out late at night. I feel it's wasted as it has minimal effect your better just to suck that night up without it and take some the following night and give yourself at least an 8 hour window for sleep.
I hopefully won't have to use it every night. I'm going to start off with 1/2 scoops too. I don't go out clubbing or take stimmed pre-workouts anyway, so should be fine there. So are you advising taking it and going to bed earlier, giving me at least 8 hours?
 
Wobmarvel

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I hopefully won't have to use it every night. I'm going to start off with 1/2 scoops too. I don't go out clubbing or take stimmed pre-workouts anyway, so should be fine there. So are you advising taking it and going to bed earlier, giving me at least 8 hours?
The first time you try it I would go one scoop and give yourself 8 hours and take it from there. If your normally going to bed past midnight and up before 7 then trying to force yourself to go to bed every night at 10pm is gonna do your head in but may be worth doing that once or twice per week just to get a decent rest time in. The product won't knock you out suddenly. Your not gonna take it then black out whilst your taking a piss. I would normally take it around 15 minutes before I head up to bed then maybe watch some YouTube on my phone (like I'm doing now) and you will feel it kicking in, your face will kind of tingle and my legs start feeling weird (my wife doesn't get the leg thing... She also only ever uses half scoops). You may remain awake for up to an hour but the point is your ready for sleep. Don't just lay in a dark room waiting for it to happen. You will doze off and when you do the supplement will put you into proper deep sleep quicker.
 

Slims

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The first time you try it I would go one scoop and give yourself 8 hours and take it from there. If your normally going to bed past midnight and up before 7 then trying to force yourself to go to bed every night at 10pm is gonna do your head in but may be worth doing that once or twice per week just to get a decent rest time in. The product won't knock you out suddenly. Your not gonna take it then black out whilst your taking a piss. I would normally take it around 15 minutes before I head up to bed then maybe watch some YouTube on my phone (like I'm doing now) and you will feel it kicking in, your face will kind of tingle and my legs start feeling weird (my wife doesn't get the leg thing... She also only ever uses half scoops). You may remain awake for up to an hour but the point is your ready for sleep. Don't just lay in a dark room waiting for it to happen. You will doze off and when you do the supplement will put you into proper deep sleep quicker.
I usually get to bed around half 12, and need to be up for 7.
Puts you to sleep and keeps you asleep, sounds like exactly what I'm looking for!
Regarding the grogginess though, I'm on the motorway within 40 minutes from waking up. Am I going to be safe to drive?
 
Wobmarvel

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I usually get to bed around half 12, and need to be up for 7.
Puts you to sleep and keeps you asleep, sounds like exactly what I'm looking for!
Regarding the grogginess though, I'm on the motorway within 40 minutes from waking up. Am I going to be safe to drive?
I would say yes but may be worth trying it first before a day off. The feeling you get when you wake up is more of a spaced out feeling than still feeling half asleep. If you drive every single day then half scoop may be the way to go initially. Take it before midnight but still stay up until half twelve if you like. It will still do its job when you do sleep.
 

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I would say yes but may be worth trying it first before a day off. The feeling you get when you wake up is more of a spaced out feeling than still feeling half asleep. If you drive every single day then half scoop may be the way to go initially. Take it before midnight but still stay up until half twelve if you like. It will still do its job when you do sleep.
I'll take it whilst I finish tidying up before I get in the shower. It can start knocking me out as I shower and by the time I get my head down I can go straight to sleep.
What's the flavour like, is it easy to drink or more of a gulp it down type of thing?
 
Wobmarvel

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I'll take it whilst I finish tidying up before I get in the shower. It can start knocking me out as I shower and by the time I get my head down I can go straight to sleep.
What's the flavour like, is it easy to drink or more of a gulp it down type of thing?
It's good as long as you like pineapple. Can be a bit strong and tastes milder with more water but to reduce the chance of needing a piss in the night I use about 200ml of water and just down it. I like the taste.

It won't stop you getting up for a piss btw it's not like your so knocked out you'll wet the bed. I find though that I have to sit down to piss if I do get up in the night though cos I pretty much keep my eyes shut lol.
 
John Smeton

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Magnesium is good. ZMK by Millennium Sports has a good night time formula you can take MVP-365 and ZMK in the evening before bed with your last meal.

Gaba is good as well
 
DaeshDontSurf

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I would recommend getting a pair of blue light blocking glasses. If you have cfl or led bulbs, they are throwing off blue light. The television is too (if it has a "warm" color temp setting, change to that). The glasses cover all that - 2-3 hrs before bed, put them on. About $20 on amazon - last forever if you don't sit on them :)
 

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Two products that have helped me sleep much better lately are LF Sleep Caps and LifeSeasons Pain Bloc-R (not together)...I think it's the L-THP in both that's providing the most benefit. For some reason, magnesium supplements just make my sleep worse, so I avoid those at night.
 

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Lots of people recommending magnesium here. Understandably due to research on magnesium's relaxing effects, but it definitely hasn't/isn't helpimg my situation.
 
John Smeton

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Lots of people recommending magnesium here. Understandably due to research on magnesium's relaxing effects, but it definitely hasn't/isn't helpimg my situation.
its fine to take it early or earlier during the day. I split my MVP365 and ZMK up throughout the day and getting magnesium at different times
 

jarrellt67

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Lots of people recommending magnesium here. Understandably due to research on magnesium's relaxing effects, but it definitely hasn't/isn't helpimg my situation.
Yep, and I've tried every form available. All make sleep worse (with magnesium l-threonate being the worst by far). Melatonin causes the same problem with me....less than 1 mg does nothing and more than that makes sleep worse. It's weird how things can be so different for people.
 

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Doxylamine- Take a 1/2 or 1/3 tab to start or you will be groggy as hell the next day. I take it once or twice a week especially if I need to crash after a few days of bad
Sleeping. If looking for something for Every night use the herbal route is better. You can also use phenibut when needed. I take 1.5-2g about 3-4 hours before bed and sleep great. Again I only use a sleep
Aid if really needed so I do t build
A tolerance
 

Slims

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I've used BSL's Anesthetized on a few different occasions now and can confirm that it is legit! After weeks of very little sleep and being truely exhausted Anesthetized has changed my life. The first few mornings were strangely difficult dealing with the sluggishness, but for getting you and keeping you asleep it is amazing
 

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