SkRaw85 Training Log

Geared benching is savage! 100% will be diving down this rabbit hole this year. This was just a quick interruption from my regular raw training as I wanted to see if this is something I even want to pursue.

For starters, the 2 ply Widowmaker can be used single ply. The layers on the arms are not stitched together so you can choose single or multi. I went single for obvious reasons. If you do go single in the multiply version, be sure you put the extra ply back behind your triceps, if you go over the top of you biceps you will get some nice rash/bruising as the material pulls against itself and your skin. As seen here:

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Bar touch pretty much begins at 500ish in the single ply (guessing my original idea of 600+ to touch in multi is pretty close to correct, time will tell). Even at 500 there is still a fair amount of pulling to bring it down.

I felt like a newborn giraffe to be honest. This is a completely unfamiliar bench pattern and I have zero technique. Honestly probably only got 515 the second time due to raw benching ability and muscling thorough it. I am going to need many many reps to learn this motion. Nothing like a slingshot (even the mad dog). It’s like an inverse row that must INSTANTLY be reversed in motion and power upon touching or you lose all stored energy. I heard it described as like 2 powerful magnets being held in your hands with the polarities opposing and you must move them perfectly in sync. Kinda hard to describe without ever trying. I’ve been benching for many years and this is completely new territory.

Once loaded up to 515 the bar (Texas power bar) was acting like a deadlift bar with whip and flex. That first rep at 515 the bar whipped at the bottom touch as I was too slow in the transfer of energy to explode back up and I lost it. As I stated before, I have zero technique or knowledge, so far. A 55lb bench specific bar will be needed as these weights today are bare minimum loads.

Did I mention I fucking love this and now have another expensive hobby?!?!

After the widowmaker testing I just figured I’d jump back to my regular programming. Haha. After doing heavy pin press singles the DOMS from my newfound movement were taxing. It was similar to how a slingshot overload bench session lights you up but this was level 11, and damn near instant. Noob DOMS. Needless to say, I didn’t hit all my accessory work as I felt like food and a nap in that very moment. Understandably so.
 
Shoot, I really don’t need the multiply, but the fact it’s designed to be separated so you can do single-ply is awesome!

What size did get again?

Thank you for the detailed write up. Also, it’s really common for geared lifters to mainly battle from neurological and joint recovery more than muscular DOMS, so even if you want to train it more, I would begin with every other week work and then maybe progress to 2 weeks gear, 1 week raw. Eventually 3 in gear, 1 raw as a deload if you find you’re good for it, but when the weights get heavy enough that frequency goes backwards. You also have to keep up the raw muscle size sufficiently, but that’s usually done on separate days because there won’t be energy for it today as you found.
 
Hyde said:
Shoot, I really don’t need the multiply, but the fact it’s designed to be separated so you can do single-ply is awesome!

What size did get again?

Thank you for the detailed write up. Also, it’s really common for geared lifters to mainly battle from neurological and joint recovery more than muscular DOMS, so even if you want to train it more, I would begin with every other week work and then maybe progress to 2 weeks gear, 1 week raw. Eventually 3 in gear, 1 raw as a deload if you find you’re good for it, but when the weights get heavy enough that frequency goes backwards. You also have to keep up the raw muscle size sufficiently, but that’s usually done on separate days because there won’t be energy for it today as you found.
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I went with the multiply size Large.

Dude, I feel like I just maxed a deadlift lol. I’ve never felt this way from bench, ever and I love it. I may need a deload tbh. I’ll see how I’m feeling tomorrow. Another thing is I never get DOMS this close to training, always many hours later or next day. This friggin pump tho got me feeling like the Hulk. ILS had me turning sideways to get through my front door 🤣

Do most people start single ply then jump to multiply? Am I doing this backwards? Either way I’m down to learn the technique.

I most likely will finish up this cycle raw, giving me time to read and study on geared training methodology. Also gotta save up for a bench bar and eventually a shirt as well.

Always appreciate the knowledge my man
 
SkRaw85 said:
I went with the multiply size Large.

Dude, I feel like I just maxed a deadlift lol. I’ve never felt this way from bench, ever and I love it. I may need a deload tbh. I’ll see how I’m feeling tomorrow. Another thing is I never get DOMS this close to training, always many hours later or next day. This friggin pump tho got me feeling like the Hulk. ILS had me turning sideways to get through my front door 🤣

Do most people start single ply then jump to multiply? Am I doing this backwards? Either way I’m down to learn the technique.

I most likely will finish up this cycle raw, giving me time to read and study on geared training methodology. Also gotta save up for a bench bar and eventually a shirt as well.

Always appreciate the knowledge my man
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I think the main thing is to progress the gear/level of support with your raw strength & most importantly time spent training in gear. A lot of the early multiply guys may have done some single ply first, but that was just because that was the gear available - it’s not important.

What is important is that a guy who can’t bench 405 raw doesn’t just go buy the most gangster shirt he can in a competitive fit he can barely touch anything to a 2-board in. It’s better to start with either looser or weaker shirts and learn to touch in those before adding more and more weight too soon.

Hoff and Barzeen have both said they believe getting strong & proficient enough to touch routinely is very important. If you can never touch in training, it’s like hitting depth - it’s not going to magically be there at the meet just because it’s a little heavier.
 
bar whip on the bench, that's sick. I've jerked over head where I had to time the whip especially with high quality Eleiko bars but never even thought about it on bench....
 
Dustin07 said:
bar whip on the bench, that's sick. I've jerked over head where I had to time the whip especially with high quality Eleiko bars but never even thought about it on bench....
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It was disgusting to see lol. When I went to liftoff I had to “push the slack” out of the bar before it came off the j cups. It’s weird cuz I use this bar for stiff bar deads and don’t really notice.
 
SkRaw85 said:
1/5
W2D1

Mini band warms:
PAs x 20
Press downs x 30
Snatch x 10

Bottoms up KB press:
30x10 per side

Flat paused bench, Kaddilac bar, mid grip:
45x10
135x3
245x1
335x1
375x1

20° DB incline press:
95’sX10x3 sets

Flat bench static hold, power bar, wraps:
475x10 seconds

Mad dog slingshot bench:
405x2
405x1x3 sets

Seal rows, powerbar, snatch grip:
135x10
175x10
205x10

Vgrip tri press downs vs avg band doubled:
15x4 sets

EZ arm blaster:
70x10
80x10
90x10

Thoroughly smoked.
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Man, very impressive 475 lbs with a 10 second hold.💪
 
Excited for you finding something you are really stoked about learning.
 
gphagan1 said:
Yeah, I thought I was gonna have chest pains just thinking of that long of a pause with that much weight.
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He’s not lowering it and pausing at the chest - he’s taking it out and trying to accommodate to holding much larger weights.

Just lifting it off and trying to stabilize it at arms length is a feat at that percentage of overload!
 
Hyde said:
He’s not lowering it and pausing at the chest - he’s taking it out and trying to accommodate to holding much larger weights.

Just lifting it off and trying to stabilize it at arms length is a feat at that percentage of overload!
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Ahh I got you…. I guess I had a duh moment. Still impressive.
 
gphagan1 said:
Ahh I got you…. I guess I had a duh moment. Still impressive.
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Definitely. I’ve never unracked anything over a 400lb slingshot press I did once, and had my wife hand off to me. I can’t imagine a self-unrack with that weight - I very much doubt I’m even capable of it. I haven’t self-unracked more than ~355 at the top.
 
Dustin07 said:
400lbs.. 500lbs...

me.

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Just because you’ve never done something, doesn’t mean you can’t do it.
 
SkRaw85 said:
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Grabbed 3 bottles of Iconic Formulations Dermacrine for some dhea and pregnenolone supplementation.
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I'm really curious about the Dermacrine, I was reading about it last night for the first time and it looks like some guys were using it as a stand alone and other guys were using it as a PCT. Is it a mild enough kick that you can just use up a canister of it when you want to for a month or?
 
Dustin07 said:
I'm really curious about the Dermacrine, I was reading about it last night for the first time and it looks like some guys were using it as a stand alone and other guys were using it as a PCT. Is it a mild enough kick that you can just use up a canister of it when you want to for a month or?
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Definitely! This is my first time with this specific brand, the reviews and raves on this forum sent me to try it out. It is not disappointing! Very versatile, I’ve used similar products standalone (well coupled with trt dose I suppose) with great results. There’s even a few logs of people using it low dose year round.
 
SkRaw85 said:
Bingo. The mind is not to be underestimated, and it goes both ways too. Master yourself I guess?
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I don’t think you can fly just because you think so, but I think in order to do anything difficult you must not put limits on yourself - you must believe if you wish to achieve. And eventually, it’s not going to be easy, but that doesn’t make it impossible!

Dustin07 said:
I'm really curious about the Dermacrine, I was reading about it last night for the first time and it looks like some guys were using it as a stand alone and other guys were using it as a PCT. Is it a mild enough kick that you can just use up a canister of it when you want to for a month or?
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Yeah and the dose is really totally what you respond well to - you might only like a couple pumps a day and otherwise feel like it’s too estrogenic/making you hold too much water. But especially by 40, the neurosteroids are starting to decrease more for more people.

It’s not exactly a natural supplement, but it’s extremely legal and safe and the best way to use DHEA and Pregnenolone is transdermally (they convert more to testosterone and less to estrogen significantly through skin vs gut absorption). No PCT required, no cycle length or continuity required, no min dose required. You just add some in whenever you want. You leave for travel, just leave it at home no biggie. You can keep it year round if you like. Because it will raise testosterone some but also estrogen significantly, it’s cardio protective if anything.
 
SkRaw85 said:
Definitely! This is my first time with this specific brand, the reviews and raves on this forum sent me to try it out. It is not disappointing! Very versatile, I’ve used similar products standalone (well coupled with trt dose I suppose) with great results. There’s even a few logs of people using it low dose year round.
Click to expand...
Hyde said:
You leave for travel, just leave it at home no biggie. You can keep it year round if you like. Because it will raise testosterone some but also estrogen significantly, it’s cardio protective if anything.
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that was my next question (if I ordered some today and used it for 3-4 weeks then travel to mexico in feb without it). Although raising estrogen significantly is an eyebrow raiser for me. As an otherwise natural lifter if I were to give the Dermacrine a try do I need to do anything else? Seems like short term being too estrogenic and holding excess water would be counter productive to trying to lean up a bit for a week on the beach, but long term maybe not bad when I get back for the next strength cycle.
 
Dustin07 said:
that was my next question (if I ordered some today and used it for 3-4 weeks then travel to mexico in feb without it). Although raising estrogen significantly is an eyebrow raiser for me. As an otherwise natural lifter if I were to give the Dermacrine a try do I need to do anything else? Seems like short term being too estrogenic and holding excess water would be counter productive to trying to lean up a bit for a week on the beach, but long term maybe not bad when I get back for the next strength cycle.
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Correct, I do not believe it will help produce a more ripped look.

You could look more full & pumped via the estrogen, progesterone & testosterone on board, but not as dry and you won’t lean as easily technically.

I have seen studies that suggest it increases insulin sensitivity and lowers body fat, and the opposite. Studies that show taken periWO that it increases recovery, and those that say it doesn’t. I think it depends on the population. And on a practical level, this is better for strength, maintenance or when gaining.
 
Hyde said:
Correct, I do not believe it will help produce a more ripped look.

You could look more full & pumped via the estrogen, progesterone & testosterone on board, but not as dry and you won’t lean as easily technically.

I have seen studies that suggest it increases insulin sensitivity and lowers body fat, and the opposite. Studies that show taken periWO that it increases recovery, and those that say it doesn’t. I think it depends on the population. And on a practical level, this is better for strength, maintenance or when gaining.
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at this point the transdermals are a lot more interesting to me than injectables but it sounds like for the short term I should stay the course then and maybe give the dermacrine a try in Feb when I get back... I appreciate the feedback as always! With only a month to go if it was going to have a leaning effect I would have given it a go I think.
 
1/13
W3D2
RE

Mini band hip walks x 40

Reverse hyper:
+90x20
+135x15
+180x10
+215x10

GHR, slow descent:
5,5,5,5,5
Volume PR with slow descent I believe

SSB 2 second paused squats:
155x5
245x5x3 sets

245 is about max compression my L5 can handle pain free right now. Think I’ll be doing single leg isolated movement and work technique/form with light weight when I back squat. Deads are still off the table currently.

Ordering back mechanic (I’m prob 7 years overdue for that) now. Gotta get it moving again.
 
The science on back injuries is all over the map and incredibly 'fuzzy' to say the least. Your injury was like 5 years ago? Are you able to throw in some RDL's at a lower weight/higher rep with increased focus on glute activation? Your injury is so close to where mine was. I know when mine knocked me out I spent like 18 months of frustrating research until I basically started doing RDL's and rack pulls. then suddenly, magically, it's like the injury was never there. But I went from a PR deadlift in August, to painful squats by Dec/January, to not being able to deadlift 135lbs by the following summer. Then randomly RDL's for sets of 20 at 95lbs just... started fixing ****.
 
Dustin07 said:
The science on back injuries is all over the map and incredibly 'fuzzy' to say the least. Your injury was like 5 years ago? Are you able to throw in some RDL's at a lower weight/higher rep with increased focus on glute activation? Your injury is so close to where mine was. I know when mine knocked me out I spent like 18 months of frustrating research until I basically started doing RDL's and rack pulls. then suddenly, magically, it's like the injury was never there. But I went from a PR deadlift in August, to painful squats by Dec/January, to not being able to deadlift 135lbs by the following summer. Then randomly RDL's for sets of 20 at 95lbs just... started fixing ****.
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FWIW, the science by a bunch of pencil neck dorks may be fuzzy, but McGill’s method is proven.

Brian Carroll went on to put 1,306 on his back in comp last year and pulled at least 800 after, I believe also a PR, and Chris Duffin did his greatest feats of strength pulling 1,000x2 and squatting 1,000x3 suit-less as an exhibition after using his methods. I took my squat from 500 to 617 and deadlift from 578 to 628 since using his stuff.

I’m not saying it’s the only way, but I can tell you I wasted a lot of time not using it again trying to work around re-injury. In the end, a second rehab cycle last summer was successful and allowed me to get my squat and pull back over 600 pain-free.


I would use the reverse hyper over RDLs, but even those may or may not be appropriate right now in the acute healing stage. I had to wait, then slowly add them in after I got my pain wound down to begin rebuilding back and Ab strength.
 
Hyde said:
FWIW, the science by a bunch of pencil neck dorks may be fuzzy, but McGill’s method is proven.

Brian Carroll went on to put 1,306 on his back in comp last year and pulled at least 800 after, I believe also a PR, and Chris Duffin did his greatest feats of strength pulling 1,000x2 and squatting 1,000x3 suit-less as an exhibition after using his methods. I took my squat from 500 to 617 and deadlift from 578 to 628 since using his stuff.

I’m not saying it’s the only way, but I can tell you I wasted a lot of time not using it again trying to work around re-injury. In the end, a second rehab cycle last summer was successful and allowed me to get my squat and pull back over 600 pain-free.


I would use the reverse hyper over RDLs, but even those may or may not be appropriate right now in the acute healing stage. I had to wait, then slowly add them in after I got my pain wound down to begin rebuilding back and Ab strength.
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Loss of ab strength is real. That's the thing I really noticed when I could start training again, all the sudden my abs were the weak point. Didn't take too long to right that though.

Pencil neck dorks well put
 
Dustin07 said:
The science on back injuries is all over the map and incredibly 'fuzzy' to say the least. Your injury was like 5 years ago? Are you able to throw in some RDL's at a lower weight/higher rep with increased focus on glute activation? Your injury is so close to where mine was. I know when mine knocked me out I spent like 18 months of frustrating research until I basically started doing RDL's and rack pulls. then suddenly, magically, it's like the injury was never there. But I went from a PR deadlift in August, to painful squats by Dec/January, to not being able to deadlift 135lbs by the following summer. Then randomly RDL's for sets of 20 at 95lbs just... started fixing ****.
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Twas about 8 years ago this year (damn time is flying). Soooo back when I first did it my sciatic nerve was pinched hard and I drug my flaccid leg around for 30 days at the mine site, drank entirely too much alcohol and popping muscle relaxers like tic tacs. Finally pulled my head out of my azz and started doing reverse hypers (no load) on the kitchen counter or wherever there was a table and various stretches to achieve some some level of comfort.

This actually worked wonders but the worst thing I could do was sit. My job was driving 4-10 hours across the state to post up for 8 days on and run heavy equipment. This was not viable in the long term. Nerve pain is the most aggravating type I’ve experienced to date. I wanted to rip that nerve out of my ass and leg. Long story short, time, reverse hypers, mobility and tissue work and a career change got me back in action. I’m actually trying to move in June so I’m closer to my work now and can knock off 2 hrs of drive time every work day.

I did some single leg DB deads the other week relatively pain free. Haven’t tried RDLs yet.
 
Hyde said:
FWIW, the science by a bunch of pencil neck dorks may be fuzzy, but McGill’s method is proven.

Brian Carroll went on to put 1,306 on his back in comp last year and pulled at least 800 after, I believe also a PR, and Chris Duffin did his greatest feats of strength pulling 1,000x2 and squatting 1,000x3 suit-less as an exhibition after using his methods. I took my squat from 500 to 617 and deadlift from 578 to 628 since using his stuff.

I’m not saying it’s the only way, but I can tell you I wasted a lot of time not using it again trying to work around re-injury. In the end, a second rehab cycle last summer was successful and allowed me to get my squat and pull back over 600 pain-free.


I would use the reverse hyper over RDLs, but even those may or may not be appropriate right now in the acute healing stage. I had to wait, then slowly add them in after I got my pain wound down to begin rebuilding back and Ab strength.
Click to expand...

Literally everyone has this same feeling in regards to McGill. I’m guilty of knowing of it but not utilizing earlier. No excuses.
 
SkRaw85 said:
Literally everyone has this same feeling in regards to McGill. I’m guilty of knowing of it but not utilizing earlier. No excuses.
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I never had problems benching during my initial rehab with regards to my back, provided I didn’t try to use a maximal arch. So you may be able to still bench while you otherwise rehab & still be productive. But if you need to take 2-4 weeks off that even, ITS AN INVESTMENT IN GREATNESS. Not a delay. Do whatever it takes.
 
Hyde said:
I never had problems benching during my initial rehab with regards to my back, provided I didn’t try to use a maximal arch. So you may be able to still bench while you otherwise rehab & still be productive. But if you need to take 2-4 weeks off that even, ITS AN INVESTMENT IN GREATNESS. Not a delay. Do whatever it takes.
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It doesn’t affect my bench at all. Last time it flamed up like this i ran a bench only cycle and finally hit my first 4 plate bench. I couldn’t even load 225 on my back to squat and deads were dead to me. I’m throwing in 1 day per week (for now, would like to bump to 2) of some light lower work, if that becomes an issue I will change direction for lower.
 
Did you order it? I think a mono is my next purchase too. Just the convenience and ease of it
 
gphagan1 said:
Smont posts food porn pictures in his log, and we get to enjoy equipment porn pictures in your log.
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Lol ya he’s got Hyde in there skipping him tasty snacks!

I might have a bit of an addiction to this damn new rack and all the functional accessories, I will not deny it.
 
1/15
W3D3
DE

Mini band warms:
PA’s x 20
Press downs x 50
Facepulls x 20
Snatch x 10

DB arm wrestlers:
15x10 per side

Alt DB front raise:
40’sX20

Speed bench vs monster-minis doubled, change grip every set (wide, comp, CG), 1 min rest between sets:
Bar only x 10, explosive, upper back leaving bench
Bar and Bands only x 10
155x3x9 sets

Z press, powerbar:
115x10x3 sets

EZ lat pull downs vs green stubby bands:
10x4 sets

Vgrip press downs vs avg band doubled:
20x4 sets

EZ bar overhand curls:
70x10
90x10x2 sets

Really focused on trying to send the Barbell out into space this speed session. Weight up and speed up. Progress being had.
 
SkRaw85 said:
It doesn’t affect my bench at all. Last time it flamed up like this i ran a bench only cycle and finally hit my first 4 plate bench. I couldn’t even load 225 on my back to squat and deads were dead to me. I’m throwing in 1 day per week (for now, would like to bump to 2) of some light lower work, if that becomes an issue I will change direction for lower.
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Your process is a lot like how mine was. I finally had one PT find the weakness in my left side that I was totally unaware of up till then. His opinion was that I had a severe injury that had recovered and I was still hypersensitive to it. Musculoskeletal doc decided ligament tear, so after about a year+ of "dealing" with it, I started to approach it with a "it's in my head" methodology. other than the RDL's, I found I could also do very very high rack pulls. Like... above knee. But at pretty heavy weight (385+) considering I couldn't pick up 135lb off the ground. I don't really know where the recovery landed, it's just that my rack pulls got progressively lower until all the sudden I was just "training" again. any time my back pain shoots up I hit RDLs. I find anytime my knees hurt I probably haven't been squatting enough and anytime my back hurts I haven't been deadlifting enough.
 
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