Should i stop usin preworkouts???
- Thread starter sk1017
- Start date
kboxer7
Well-known member
For the most part....doesn't exist. The body adapts. There is a big thread somewhere, just need to find it so I can link you : )
Stim tolerance is a real thing though, meaning over time you may need more of, say, caffeine to get the same effect as you did on a lower dose. Cycling off for a while can bring you closer back to baseline again.
cubsfan815
Well-known member
I think the thread is in supplement science section. I'm on quick break at work or I'd try to link it.
Lynks8
Well-known member
Quads_of_Stee
Well-known member
A lot of people associate adrenal fatigue with tolerance, which I can see why people do that. I would cycle stims because otherwise you will need to keep taking higher and higher doses to get the same effects
Jiigzz
Legend
Adrenal fatigue is a buzzword for tolerance and withdrawls. When you take a psychoactive substance, often the body will downregulate (or reduce) the number of available receptor sites. This means the effect becomes lesser at the same dose as there are no longer as many receptors to interact with.
Withdrawls or the feeling of "coming off" can also occur which tends to make people thing their adrenals have exploded. Rest assured you are fine
Withdrawls or the feeling of "coming off" can also occur which tends to make people thing their adrenals have exploded. Rest assured you are fine
LeanEngineer
Legend
Agreed. I usually always take a two week stim break ever now and then just to give myself a break and when u start back up on them you will feel it.
Nyrin
Member
100% right -- not just tolerance and withdrawals, but also a bit of dependence. You know when people just "can't start their day without coffee" and end up absolute wrecks in the AM without their 200-300mg of caffeine? That's a functional dependence. When you start to require the use of the substance to achieve nominal results (that is, you need a cup or two just to be "normal"), you've become dependent. Migrating this to workouts, if you try to exercise without stims and just perform like absolute crap rather than the little bit worse that the absence of an ergogen should confer, you're probably dependent.
Dependence isn't inherently anything to be alarmed about, in my opinion (we're already dependent on a lot of things, like food, water, and air!), but it's also not terribly desirable, either -- nobody wants to add to the column of "things I need to be a normal human being" (tangent: this is often an issue with patients taking on lifelong medication regimens, too, particularly things like antidepressants or hormonal corrections/replacements).
A stim break can help break the dependence aspect for a time, though much like the tolerance and withdrawal aspects, the return on investment varies dramatically from individual to individual. I know some guys can take a stim break for a couple of weeks and then be practically naïve to caffeine for months until they take a break again; in my case, I get about a day of relative high sensitivity for each week I take off, which is totally not worth it to me.
GreekTheBrick
Active member
Stim tolerance is a fact. As its a fact that you can never have again that first feeling of a good pre, no matter the break you take. Sadly..
Otheridstaken
Active member
There are supplements to help with adrenal fatigue. So it's a real thing right? Why would supplement companies lie? lol
BRUstrong
Well-known member
Down regulation (here referring to stim tolerence) is real...but it's reversible. You certainly can take a stim break and feel the same effects of a pwo as you did the first time you took it.
GreekTheBrick
Active member
Unfortunately it didnt work for me, an 8 week break, without even coffee or softdrinks(hate them anyways) and felt almost no kick when starting again. Maybe I should move on to a new pre or just add some dmaa or even stop them at all and save some money!
There is always the option of og detonate but Im saving it for when things are really tough(baby no sleeping, double working hours, etc)
BRUstrong
Well-known member
Haha I'm the same way with my bottles of OG Detonate! Special occasions only!
GreekTheBrick
Active member
Bottles I hear! Take care of them and use every pill wisely!
LiftWithDonuts
Well-known member
I'd say try a stim free pre workout for a week before you do a deload week that way you'd be off of stims for two weeks. I've been doing that for a while and i dont seem to build up a tolerance.
MidwestBeast
Legend
As others have said, taking a break from most anything, and especially stimulants, is a good call. I've done several 4-8 week breaks from stimulants after going cold turkey and the first 10 days or so are rough in terms of headaches and feeling tired in the afternoons, but after that (for me, at least) it's been relatively simple. That said, I have yet to take a break and then feel the same energy from stims when resuming. So, I just haven't taken a full break in a long, long time. But I also typically just use caffeine anymore and nothing else in terms of stimulants (aside from one bronkaid cap before basketball 1 or 2x/week just to help with my breathing).
HeizzMP
New member
OP, I generally take a break every ~3 months from stimulants to help lower my tolerance, and trust me, it works!
I usually cycle in a non-stim PWO for my ~2 weeks off stimulants, before switching back to my stim PWO. Obviously you wont have the same effects from a non stim, but there are some great products out there to keep that PUMP alive!
If you are feeling that you have to keep increasing your caffeine amounts to "feel" the effects, then it may be time for a stim break.
I usually cycle in a non-stim PWO for my ~2 weeks off stimulants, before switching back to my stim PWO. Obviously you wont have the same effects from a non stim, but there are some great products out there to keep that PUMP alive!
If you are feeling that you have to keep increasing your caffeine amounts to "feel" the effects, then it may be time for a stim break.
ma70
Well-known member
After taking one month of a break from stims, in conjunction with using BPS Adrenosurge, I didn't suffer withdrawal symptoms and now that I've come back on stims they are much more effective. It may depend on how long you've used said stims, and how high the dosages of caffeine/whatever were. I've never gone above 300mg caffeine daily.
MidwestBeast
Legend
The next break I take will be accompanied by Adrenosurge and Sleephoria.
Gutterpump
Banned
Adrenal fatigue is real. My adrenals became shot from years and years of caffeine abuse, little sleep, and high stress. My adrenals just stopped outputting the necessary cortisol needed after a while (my levels were crashing at noon). I am now on prescription hydrocortisone (25mg per day), and DHEA likely for life. I have not been able to come off it in the years I've been taking it, and feel much better on it now.
You can test for adrenal fatigue through a very simple 24-hour cortisol test. Testing for DHEA / DHEAS is also good as low DHEAS is a secondary indicator.
You can test for adrenal fatigue through a very simple 24-hour cortisol test. Testing for DHEA / DHEAS is also good as low DHEAS is a secondary indicator.
BRUstrong
Well-known member
Do you consume caffeine at all????
sk1017
New member
I will drink coffee about once a week.. I like coffe but try to avoid it for these reasons... I do like green tea however and will drink that more frequently .
T-Bone
Banned
I don't know if you're only taking caffeine free pre workouts. I have no clue what you take.
Jiigzz
Legend
Its not a clinically recognised condition. You may have developed insufficiency but can you attribute caffeine to it directly OR are you lumping it in with high stress and lack of sleep?
If i said bananas cause obesity because I eat a banana a day and 42 big mac combos, is it really the one banana or all the big macs?
Gutterpump
Banned
Yes caffeine was definitely involved. It was a combination of things that caused an irreversible condition and yes I was drinking two pots of coffee a day spiked with caffeine pills. I was a crazy workaholic in my twenties. But that's not relevant to the OP's post, just to the people who said its not a real condition.
Do I think this guy will get insufficiency from preworkout supps alone? Doubtful, but that was not what I stated right? I simply said it's a legitimate condition. Reading comprehension dude.
nerdslift2
New member
I've been through adrenal fatigue a couple years ago, holy **** it sucked.
It wasn't from stims I can tell you that, it was the stress of the job in worked being on call getting woke up most days at 2 or 3 in the morning, the injury I suffered at work that required multiple surgeries compounding stress, being on cortical steroids, and the stress of a lot of other things. I never ran stims that much and I've always kept my daily intake like below 300 mg and I take breaks occasionally, but I was messed up. I took about a month off stims just to be safe after I had recovered, I take a couple weeks off twice a year now... but once I eliminated the stress and stopped Working that job and got off prednisone I've never had the issue again. Make sleep a priority get a nap when you can this is when your adrenal glands recover, find ways to eliminate stress, otherwise yes you can go through fatigue and it sucks, I couldn't sleep more than an hour or two a night, I couldn't walk without getting dizzy, it was mostly the prednisone but it happened
It wasn't from stims I can tell you that, it was the stress of the job in worked being on call getting woke up most days at 2 or 3 in the morning, the injury I suffered at work that required multiple surgeries compounding stress, being on cortical steroids, and the stress of a lot of other things. I never ran stims that much and I've always kept my daily intake like below 300 mg and I take breaks occasionally, but I was messed up. I took about a month off stims just to be safe after I had recovered, I take a couple weeks off twice a year now... but once I eliminated the stress and stopped Working that job and got off prednisone I've never had the issue again. Make sleep a priority get a nap when you can this is when your adrenal glands recover, find ways to eliminate stress, otherwise yes you can go through fatigue and it sucks, I couldn't sleep more than an hour or two a night, I couldn't walk without getting dizzy, it was mostly the prednisone but it happened
nerdslift2
New member
Also if you feel stim tolerant mix your pre up a couple times a week! I've got my main one but pics always got a second or tons of samples on deck and I take weekends off pre workout (train 5 days with) so I never really get to that point where I don't feel a boost. Also make sure you've got a good hour workout food intake or it'll be easy less impact
Gutterpump
Banned
What also helps amazingly well for stim tolerance is a product like BPS AdrenoSurge.
nerdslift2
New member
Had to do the only"test"they have for it got like blood drawn a million times then that's what they said they gave me a tapered dose of prednisone for a few days to help adjust and that worked (until the taper was over) literally only got better after feeling like **** like a week and a half, again it didn't have anything to do with caffeine though it was likely from being on the prednisone such a high dose for such a long time. I just know I wanted to die for a couple weeks and that was over two years ago never had another issue
Gutterpump
Banned
No, don't get me wrong, you're completely right in the sense that most doctors don't recognize it until it's full blown Addison's disease.
My doctor couldn't understand why my DHEA was low. He said my morning cortisol was fine and he didn't really care about the rest. I went to an endocrinologist and it turns out they are only really good for diabetics.
I started speaking with osteopaths and searching out more cutting edge people in the medical/nutritional field and also joined a large thyroid forum where the adrenals are discussed intensively, and finally came to the solution. Keep in mind this was a very long journey. In those years I tried everything in my power to increase and fix my adrenal issues (low cortisol and low DHEA). I also had low test. I finally went on full hormone replacement therapy.
I take a small dose of cortisol, test, DHEA and stress dose cortisone when needed and everything has improved greatly. I started TRT before treating adrenals but still felt bad until I finally started treating everything. So yes, weather it's full understood or recognized, it's certainly real.
nerdslift2
New member
I kept getting the "huh... that's weird"response while explaining what was going on and getting tested.
After they gave had me do the taper with pred I went right back to what it was and they didn't even feel like it was necessary to have me come back on because there was nothing they could really do
After they gave had me do the taper with pred I went right back to what it was and they didn't even feel like it was necessary to have me come back on because there was nothing they could really do
Jiigzz
Legend
Real condition or not, glad you sorted it out in the end
Gutterpump
Banned
Yup prednisone will shut you down, you have to taper off very slowly.
Gutterpump
Banned
Thanks. It's definitely worse than dealing with low test. I don't wish an adrenal crisis on my worst enemy. I made the mistake of running out of hydrocortisone once and it put me in the hospital. It's a situation that can easily kill someone. If there are any workaholics or people living under very high stress reading this, do yourselves a favor and never let yourself crash. It's not worth any amount of money/income.