Unanswered Shockingly Low T (Help!?)

Malbranque

Malbranque

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Hi all

I did one of those home testosterone checks a couple weeks ago with an Irish company called Myclinic as have been stressed to bits lately (family troubles etc…I won’t go into it) and feeling like crap.
I didn’t get a comprehensive breakdown of the results, but just an email saying:
“LOW - L 3.6 nmol/L (7.6 - 31.4) Reference Ranges apply to adults Result Reported from Referral Laboratory”
Genuinely have no clue what that means, as I anticipated a lab report akin to what I see posted around these parts.

I’m 38, 6’2”, alternate between approx 94 and 97kgs depending on the time of year, train 5 or 6 days a week (alternating every few months between the Who Was CNS 5/3/1 and PHAT). Have a relatively clean diet and supplement wise – at the moment – I’m taking Chaos and Pains Predator with Karbolyn and Hemavol PWO, Laxogenin (Hi Tech) Universals Sterol Complex, Vitamin D, Ecklonia Cava, Outbreak Nutrition’s Rise and Fearns Lecithin.
No idea why my T-Levels are so cripplingly low.

I have some Sup3r PCT or Test1fy there to use a standalone once I finish – the admittedly useless ‘Rise’ – so hopefully they give me some sort of a boost, as I don’t want to be on TRT yet.
Would anyone have any advice on how to boost T levels naturally? Or will I just bite the bullet and go the synthetic route?

Sorry, that's a bit panicky and 'jazz hands' but genuinely at a loss here.

Cheers
 
The Solution

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Go see an Endo and seek out a professional.
Get a full test panel done on free and total testosterone
then post your final readings.

Trying to go the OTC route won't be a life long solution, it may raise levels a touch, but if your levels are that low nothing will fix it compared to getting diagnosed by a doctor/professional.
 
Malbranque

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G
Go see an Endo and seek out a professional.
Get a full test panel done on free and total testosterone
then post your final readings.

Trying to go the OTC route won't be a life long solution, it may raise levels a touch, but if your levels are that low nothing will fix it compared to getting diagnosed by a doctor/professional.
Thanks, sir.
I'll get onto this now. It's a mental reading and not one I expected at all.
I'll post up the bloods once I have them.

Cheers
 

ucheoma

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Hi all

I did one of those home testosterone checks a couple weeks ago with an Irish company called Myclinic as have been stressed to bits lately (family troubles etc…I won’t go into it) and feeling like crap.
I didn’t get a comprehensive breakdown of the results, but just an email saying:
“LOW - L 3.6 nmol/L (7.6 - 31.4) Reference Ranges apply to adults Result Reported from Referral Laboratory”
Genuinely have no clue what that means, as I anticipated a lab report akin to what I see posted around these parts.

I’m 38, 6’2”, alternate between approx 94 and 97kgs depending on the time of year, train 5 or 6 days a week (alternating every few months between the Who Was CNS 5/3/1 and PHAT). Have a relatively clean diet and supplement wise – at the moment – I’m taking Chaos and Pains Predator with Karbolyn and Hemavol PWO, Laxogenin (Hi Tech) Universals Sterol Complex, Vitamin D, Ecklonia Cava, Outbreak Nutrition’s Rise and Fearns Lecithin.
No idea why my T-Levels are so cripplingly low.

I have some Sup3r PCT or Test1fy there to use a standalone once I finish – the admittedly useless ‘Rise’ – so hopefully they give me some sort of a boost, as I don’t want to be on TRT yet.
Would anyone have any advice on how to boost T levels naturally? Or will I just bite the bullet and go the synthetic route?

Sorry, that's a bit panicky and 'jazz hands' but genuinely at a loss here.

Cheers
Dont overstress yourself more than you are already. You mentioned youre under a lot of stress lately? Are you sleeping well/getting enough sleep?

Id hazard a guess that T reading could be an outlier. Have you had other test bloodwork in the last yr or so.

Id agree first point of call is to take a full panel test and see what that shows and try to manage whatever it is that is causing you stress. Easier said than done but you need to address the root cause. Also take the bloodwork early in the morning if you didnt do so previously
 
Malbranque

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Thanks for the reply, ucheoma

I haven't been really getting much sleep at all for the last year or so. (Dad had cancer and died in April. I'm an only child, and it was only me and him, so it's been a really hectic time. Not looking for the violin or anything like it, as 'such is life' but I'd say that had some sort of effect behind the scenes even though I was putting up the Alpha front)
I won't take sleeping tablets or anything "synthetic" (even Melatonin flatlines me for hours after I wake up, and with commitments to family and work, I can only work out at around 6 or 7am, so it's counter productive) so I pretty much rely on Magnesium and Cycloastragenol to help put me out if even for a couple hours.

However, that was the first ever time I'd had T-bloods done.
I would say over the last year, things have gone "slightly askew", because in 2017 and 2018 I felt like a teenager again, and the drop off in that magnificent feeling is why I thought I'd better get the levels checked.

I did the finger prick test around 6pm before I left work and sent it out in the post that night, but I can't see timing having that detrimental an effect on T levels. Although, I hope I'm wrong...

I'm going to head into my GP and ask for a comprehensive panel and I'll post them up and see what you guys make of it.
Just a bit demoralised at present, but I'll crack on and see if I can get this ironed out.
 
stopstalking

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I would for sure go see the Dr. and get to the root of it. As for in the meantime if you want to do supps I would suggest CEL M-Test. And SNS KSM-66.
 

ucheoma

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I would for sure go see the Dr. and get to the root of it. As for in the meantime if you want to do supps I would suggest CEL M-Test. And SNS KSM-66.
Here we go! Thank goodness PL brigade have been retired! Never missed a chance to plug their products!
 
ValiantThor08

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Here we go! Thank goodness PL brigade have been retired! Never missed a chance to plug their products!
If the products work, and the companies pay to be on the board, no problem promoting the product.
 

ucheoma

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If the products work, and the companies pay to be on the board, no problem promoting the product.
Certainly plug away all you want. I know we're on a supplements board. But lets be honest all OTC test boosters will do for OP is drain his wallet if he hasnt resolved or learnt to manage his stressors.

OP. Prolonged periods of poor sleep will wreak havoc on your T. You need to take a holistic approach and make relevant changes in your life otherwise your lack of sleep will manifest itself in more serious ways. There is no single quick fix or pill that will address your issue.

And yes. T levels are highest early in the morning assuming you get a good nights sleep. Try getting a good 5 to 7 nights sleep and retest. Unless you have an underlying medical condition i suspect your readings will improve. Also, test for cortisol if you can to check of this is high
 
stopstalking

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Here we go! Thank goodness PL brigade have been retired! Never missed a chance to plug their products!
First thing I recommended was going to see the Dr. I did recommend two supplements that both would help aide his issue. There have been several members who have had significant test gains using M-test and KSM-66 has tons of research on it and stress. Even so my first recommendation is to see the Dr and get to the root of the problem. The supps very much could aide in him feeling better in the meantime.
 

ucheoma

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First thing I recommended was going to see the Dr. I did recommend two supplements that both would help aide his issue. There have been several members who have had significant test gains using M-test and KSM-66 has tons of research on it and stress. Even so my first recommendation is to see the Dr and get to the root of the problem. The supps very much could aide in him feeling better in the meantime.
Each individuals circumstances / context is different. Extrapolating the experiences of a handful of people is misleading. These natty supps will do little or nothing to alleviate long term or chronic stress. Case in point OP is already using magnesium and other supps which will have likely have had minimal effect if the stress factors are not being addressed.

At the end of the day its OPs money. I have had similar experiences to OP, have used all the supps you mentioned, plus the benefit of multiple bloodwork (which i suspect you dont) and am speaking to contribute my cents worth with no pecuniary interest involved.

Supps should be a second or third order recourse and only after starting to identify, confront or manage the root cause of his stress and poor sleep
 
LeanEngineer

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I would for sure go see the Dr. and get to the root of it. As for in the meantime if you want to do supps I would suggest CEL M-Test. And SNS KSM-66.
Agreed with this. Doc is the best way to go!
 
Powercage

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Dont see an endo, see a urologist. Endos tend to be very poor for TRT.
 
The Solution

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Dont see an endo, see a urologist. Endos tend to be very poor for TRT.
Depends who you go to and see
Just like with any doctor or specialist they can be great or they can be garbage. I always suggest doing research on a local doctor or driving a bit to find someone who is worth your money. I drive to Pittsburgh to UPMC if I need to see a specialist because my local doctors are worthless
 
sns8778

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Endocrinologist and full hormone panel done - test, free test, lh, dhea levels, thyroid levels, vitamin d, etc.
Many times people including doctors get so fixated on one element of blood work that they don't look at the big picture.

Supplement wise, I do agree with the suggestion for M-Test for three reasons - 1) posted blood work from people that it's helped their test levels and free test levels 2) the amount of positive feedback 3) my personal results; I have blood work done fairly regularly because of some medical issues and my total test and free test are higher on M-Test, to the point that my doctor recommended that I stay on it because of this (and I just in general feel better and have more day to day energy and better mood while on it).

It amazes me sometimes the way people look at natural testosterone boosting supplements and minimize the results that they can have. I've seen some say things like a couple hundred point difference wouldn't matter - it can matter dramatically. Legit (non-athletic enhancing) HRT in many cases is low dosage and only meant to bring about a couple hundred point increase to help get people to the upper level of the normal range. I think sometimes people tend to forget that some people want to be at the upper end of normal and just feel better, not necessarily have a 'cycle' level dosage.
 

ucheoma

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No disrespect, but you would support recommendations for m-test and sns ksm .Youre not exactly "independent" or "unbiased" now are you?
Your claim #3 would bear more weight if you had posted bloodwork and details of what other supps/medication you use.

Again i assert my central point he needs to fix the wider issues and get a full panel bloodwork/diagnosis. . A doctor or medical treatment might help with the symptoms but not the root causes. A more holistic approach is needed but this can be much harder than the quick fix of swallowing a pill or supplement as it usually involves change in behaviour, mindset or habits
 
sns8778

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No disrespect, but you would support recommendations for m-test and sns ksm .Youre not exactly "independent" or "unbiased" now are you?
Your claim #3 would bear more weight if you had posted bloodwork and details of what other supps/medication you use.

Again i assert my central point he needs to fix the wider issues and get a full panel bloodwork/diagnosis. . A doctor or medical treatment might help with the symptoms but not the root causes. A more holistic approach is needed but this can be much harder than the quick fix of swallowing a pill or supplement as it usually involves change in behaviour, mindset or habits
You seem to be very selectively reading and dismissing things that other people are saying to further your point.

My very first suggestion was for him to see an endocrinologist and get a full hormone panel done. I went into more detail than any other post in this thread in terms of what he needed to request from the endocrinologist; and that is from personal experience of having several myself that got too fixated on one or two levels rather than look at a full hormone panel to see the big picture of what is going on. The endocrinology condition that I have is so complex that I've been a test subject for two different studies and had everything done up through a pituitary MRI so I do think I have a little bit of a right to speak on the subject being that I'm going on 15 years of my life with doctors studying it in hopes of helping other people.

As far as 'claim 3' - see above - my medical condition and associated blood work is quite honestly none of your nor anyone else's business if I don't choose to share it, and I generally don't go into great detail because as explained above, its very complex. If it is baffling to researchers at 2 major university departments, I doubt its going to be easily explained or understood on a forum. At certain times, I choose to share information on it out of hopes of helping other people, just like I've let them put me through a lot of testing that will never help me - out of hopes that it may one day help other people. It's great when people want to post their blood work, I admire that. But me, you, and everyone else also has the right to privacy on medical issues should they choose not to. Notice you mentioned it as my 'claim 3' - that's why I made it 3 rather than 1 or 2. For #1, I pointed out the people that have posted blood work on it and for #2 the amount of positive feedback on it.

You said I supported recommending M-Test and KSM-66 - I didn't even mention KSM-66. KSM-66 as an ingredient has enough clinical studies that it stands for itself. KSM-66 as an ingredient is included in M-Test so I get my KSM-66 in there; but for people that use M-Test, they may or may not want to add additional KSM-66.

You seem to be of the mindset that company reps nor owners should ever share their personal knowledge or experiences in trying to help people? Basically, that would be encouraging some of the smartest most helpful people on the forums to remain silent and not help people.

You say that you once again assert your central point that he needs to fix the wider issues and get a full panel done - I haven't seen anyone disagree with you on that. I went a step further than you on that and listed a number of tests that I think he should have done and these tests were listed out of personal experience for the ones that my endocrinologist recommends because with past endocrinologists I wasted a lot of time with them not being comprehensive enough. No one, not one single person in this thread has said anything about a more comprehensive approach not being needed but if there are supplements (by SNS, CEL, or anyone else) that can help someone feel better in the meantime, there is absolutely nothing wrong with people trying to help the OP or anyone else feel better.

I'm trying to figure out based on several of your posts if you are intentionally just trying to be a jerk to me or if you haven't looked into my post history enough to realize this but I very frequently recommend other companies products as well and try to help as many people as possible. I started posting on AM again because so many people asked me to, but it was quite honestly BS like this that led to me stopping posting to begin with. Its comments and crap like that that ruin AM for many of the people that used to try to come here to legitimately help people and share their knowledge bc they are/were here to help, not waste their time bickering with people and being unappreciated.
 
ValiantThor08

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I agree with with a trifecta of help, lifestyle examination and changes, OTC supplementation, and dr. Examination. One doesn't need to exclude any of those. The last resort should be a prescription drug in my opinion.
 
thebigt

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Endocrinologist and full hormone panel done - test, free test, lh, dhea levels, thyroid levels, vitamin d, etc.
Many times people including doctors get so fixated on one element of blood work that they don't look at the big picture.

Supplement wise, I do agree with the suggestion for M-Test for three reasons - 1) posted blood work from people that it's helped their test levels and free test levels 2) the amount of positive feedback 3) my personal results; I have blood work done fairly regularly because of some medical issues and my total test and free test are higher on M-Test, to the point that my doctor recommended that I stay on it because of this (and I just in general feel better and have more day to day energy and better mood while on it).

It amazes me sometimes the way people look at natural testosterone boosting supplements and minimize the results that they can have. I've seen some say things like a couple hundred point difference wouldn't matter - it can matter dramatically. Legit (non-athletic enhancing) HRT in many cases is low dosage and only meant to bring about a couple hundred point increase to help get people to the upper level of the normal range. I think sometimes people tend to forget that some people want to be at the upper end of normal and just feel better, not necessarily have a 'cycle' level dosage.
well said...my trt dose was cut in half due to polycythemia, I run test boosters including m-test very frequently to augment my test cyp. like you said, it may or may not significantly increase my numbers but running test boosters have a genuine positive affect on how I feel.
 
Matthersby

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Go see an Endo and seek out a professional.
Get a full test panel done on free and total testosterone
then post your final readings.

Trying to go the OTC route won't be a life long solution, it may raise levels a touch, but if your levels are that low nothing will fix it compared to getting diagnosed by a doctor/professional.
Exactly. This was only step one and nowhere even close to enough information to make an informed decision yet. Endo time.
 

ucheoma

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My point is if you take a kitchen sink approach you're never going to find out the underlying cause or whats working. Which is why i emphasise as the first steps retesting, trying to fix the stress and poor sleep and looking at holistic changes. Also look for a good Dr. (good luck on this front!).

Im not discountenancing supps completely but not at this stage until hes retested, and tried to make the relevant changes, particularly sleep. Taking supps so early on could also mask or delay tackling the root cause. We also know the power of placebo in the bottle! Another case in point is t boosters can never be a long term fix due to laws of dimimishing returns and homoestasis They become ineffective (assuming they 'work' at all) if you dont take breaks. You talk about being selective but you point to a handful of positive testimonies. I can also point you to several postings indicating m test made no difference or indeed may have have an adverse result. Conveniently youve skipped over these to present an unambiguously favourable picture of positive results.

You weighed in on a conversation here so stop going on about picking up your toys and leaving! Frankly its becoming a bit irksome. Your business is about making and selling stuff so id expect you to be more hard skinned and not take differences of views so personally.

Its a free world and in this era of fake news a healthy dose of sceptiscm is a good thing in my view. This includes examining the motivations and interests of those providing information and advice.

I know this might come across as callous. Dont take it that way as ive been through roller coasters similar to yours. However i find it very difficult to accept on your say so that m test has made an appreciable difference where other treatments may have not. Its your prerogative not to share bloodwork or more evidence, its mine to disbelieve you
 
sns8778

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My point is if you take a kitchen sink approach you're never going to find out the underlying cause or whats working. Which is why i emphasise as the first steps retesting, trying to fix the stress and poor sleep and looking at holistic changes. Also look for a good Dr. (good luck on this front!).

Im not discountenancing supps completely but not at this stage until hes retested, and tried to make the relevant changes, particularly sleep. Taking supps so early on could also mask or delay tackling the root cause. We also know the power of placebo in the bottle! Another case in point is t boosters can never be a long term fix due to laws of dimimishing returns and homoestasis They become ineffective (assuming they 'work' at all) if you dont take breaks. You talk about being selective but you point to a handful of positive testimonies. I can also point you to several postings indicating m test made no difference or indeed may have have an adverse result. Conveniently youve skipped over these to present an unambiguously favourable picture of positive results.

You weighed in on a conversation here so stop going on about picking up your toys and leaving! Frankly its becoming a bit irksome. Your business is about making and selling stuff so id expect you to be more hard skinned and not take differences of views so personally.

Its a free world and in this era of fake news a healthy dose of sceptiscm is a good thing in my view. This includes examining the motivations and interests of those providing information and advice.

I know this might come across as callous. Dont take it that way as ive been through roller coasters similar to yours. However i find it very difficult to accept on your say so that m test has made an appreciable difference where other treatments may have not. Its your prerogative not to share bloodwork or more evidence, its mine to disbelieve you
I’m very respectful of different point of views. I enjoy discussing them with people that can have intelligent conversations and not be rude. You’re the one that had something negative to say about my post on trying to help someone and my first interaction with you was you coming into one of our company related threads and being rude.

As far as thinking I should have ‘thicker skin’ I simply don’t like rude people or people that discount the opinions of others. People should come here to sharhelp knowledge and should show each other respect - whether they have 1 post or thousands.

I post on many subjects including many that have nothing to do with any of our products. I’m one of the biggest proponents on this forum for example for Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin for years and we don’t make one.

To your not believing me - here’s the thing - I wasn’t talking to you. You went out of your way to be a jerk to me right after being a jerk in another thread. I posted simply to help the OP. I like to help people, that’s one of the things that ppl have generally liked about me on here.

It is my belief that when someone, anyone here has gone through a medical issue in their life that it’s good to share knowledge to help others. I’ve posted here on and off for over 10 years and have discussed my issues when relevant and helped many people who were trying to get the right type of help with endocrinology & autoimmune issues. If you choose to not believe me or anyone else, that’s on you. As far as what I’ve gone through, I’ve discussed it with some of the smartest science minded people on here over the years including Synapsin, Danes, BigT, Par Deus; heck even the admin.

Apparently to you, on a supplement forum, in the supplement sections, it’s wrong for someone to make a supplement suggestion AFTER going into detail about other types of testing that may help.

I don’t like to bicker or argue. I like to help people. If you don’t like me, cool; I’m not sure if there’s a way for you to block yourself from reading my posts and if there is, have at it. Alternatively, ignore them if you don’t like them. But there’s nothing productive about bickering and you’ve repeated yourself over and over like people said for him not to seek a physicians help when almost everyone said to and I even detailed suggested blood work for him to have checked.
 

ucheoma

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I’m very respectful of different point of views. I enjoy discussing them with people that can have intelligent conversations and not be rude. You’re the one that had something negative to say about my post on trying to help someone and my first interaction with you was you coming into one of our company related threads and being rude.

As far as thinking I should have ‘thicker skin’ I simply don’t like rude people or people that discount the opinions of others. People should come here to sharhelp knowledge and should show each other respect - whether they have 1 post or thousands.

I post on many subjects including many that have nothing to do with any of our products. I’m one of the biggest proponents on this forum for example for Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin for years and we don’t make one.

To your not believing me - here’s the thing - I wasn’t talking to you. You went out of your way to be a jerk to me right after being a jerk in another thread. I posted simply to help the OP. I like to help people, that’s one of the things that ppl have generally liked about me on here.

It is my belief that when someone, anyone here has gone through a medical issue in their life that it’s good to share knowledge to help others. I’ve posted here on and off for over 10 years and have discussed my issues when relevant and helped many people who were trying to get the right type of help with endocrinology & autoimmune issues. If you choose to not believe me or anyone else, that’s on you. As far as what I’ve gone through, I’ve discussed it with some of the smartest science minded people on here over the years including Synapsin, Danes, BigT, Par Deus; heck even the admin.

Apparently to you, on a supplement forum, in the supplement sections, it’s wrong for someone to make a supplement suggestion AFTER going into detail about other types of testing that may help.

I don’t like to bicker or argue. I like to help people. If you don’t like me, cool; I’m not sure if there’s a way for you to block yourself from reading my posts and if there is, have at it. Alternatively, ignore them if you don’t like them. But there’s nothing productive about bickering and you’ve repeated yourself over and over like people said for him not to seek a physicians help when almost everyone said to and I even detailed suggested blood work for him to have checked.
I'm weary of the back and forth and name calling. Lets try an objective assessment. Once ive finished my run of Ultra Test and had an appropriate break ill pay for and do bloodwork baseline and post. You tell me what you want me to test for and send me however many bottles you deem sufficient. I'll post the results on the board. No anecdotes. No stories. No conjecture. Plain old bloodwork and hard numbers!

Btw im borderline low t. Have posted my latest total test bloodwork in another thread. Are you up for this? If not, ill let this rest. Ive got nothing to prove. Im not the one making claims.
 
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ucheoma

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I’m very respectful of different point of views. I enjoy discussing them with people that can have intelligent conversations and not be rude. You’re the one that had something negative to say about my post on trying to help someone and my first interaction with you was you coming into one of our company related threads and being rude.

As far as thinking I should have ‘thicker skin’ I simply don’t like rude people or people that discount the opinions of others. People should come here to sharhelp knowledge and should show each other respect - whether they have 1 post or thousands.

I post on many subjects including many that have nothing to do with any of our products. I’m one of the biggest proponents on this forum for example for Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin for years and we don’t make one.

To your not believing me - here’s the thing - I wasn’t talking to you. You went out of your way to be a jerk to me right after being a jerk in another thread. I posted simply to help the OP. I like to help people, that’s one of the things that ppl have generally liked about me on here.

It is my belief that when someone, anyone here has gone through a medical issue in their life that it’s good to share knowledge to help others. I’ve posted here on and off for over 10 years and have discussed my issues when relevant and helped many people who were trying to get the right type of help with endocrinology & autoimmune issues. If you choose to not believe me or anyone else, that’s on you. As far as what I’ve gone through, I’ve discussed it with some of the smartest science minded people on here over the years including Synapsin, Danes, BigT, Par Deus; heck even the admin.

Apparently to you, on a supplement forum, in the supplement sections, it’s wrong for someone to make a supplement suggestion AFTER going into detail about other types of testing that may help.

I don’t like to bicker or argue. I like to help people. If you don’t like me, cool; I’m not sure if there’s a way for you to block yourself from reading my posts and if there is, have at it. Alternatively, ignore them if you don’t like them. But there’s nothing productive about bickering and you’ve repeated yourself over and over like people said for him not to seek a physicians help when almost everyone said to and I even detailed suggested blood work for him to have checked.
I'm weary of the back and forth! Lets try and objective assessment. Once ive finished my run of Ultra Test and had an appropriate break ill pay for and do bloodwork baseline and post. You tell me what you want me to test for and send me however many bottles you deem sufficient. I'll post the results on the board. No anecdotes. No stories. No conjecture. Just plain old bloodwork and numbers.

Btw im borderline low t. Have posted my latest total test bloodwork in another thread. Are you up for this?
Lol comes off as a dink and then asks for bottles of free supps. Sure bud. @sns8778 has been very helpful on the boards and many of us appreciate his efforts here
Read my post. Im paying for 2 full panels of bloodwork. Each blood panel including free T is easily double the price of a bottle of m test. For what its worth ive used virtually all t boosters advertised on this board including m test. Im not looking for any freebies, jerk. . am willing to spend my money on additional bloodwork which may or may not corroborate my previous experience: nil impact on test levels.

Just so youre aware im currently running ultra test. Jake from Antaeus sent me two bottles. Ive posted my baseline and will post a follow up in 6 weeks. I can appreciate if not everyone is up for such a challenge. If they say no then that will be that as far as im concerned.
 
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Toff

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Endocrinologist and full hormone panel done - test, free test, lh, dhea levels, thyroid levels, vitamin d, etc.
Many times people including doctors get so fixated on one element of blood work that they don't look at the big picture.

Supplement wise, I do agree with the suggestion for M-Test for three reasons - 1) posted blood work from people that it's helped their test levels and free test levels 2) the amount of positive feedback 3) my personal results; I have blood work done fairly regularly because of some medical issues and my total test and free test are higher on M-Test, to the point that my doctor recommended that I stay on it because of this (and I just in general feel better and have more day to day energy and better mood while on it).

It amazes me sometimes the way people look at natural testosterone boosting supplements and minimize the results that they can have. I've seen some say things like a couple hundred point difference wouldn't matter - it can matter dramatically. Legit (non-athletic enhancing) HRT in many cases is low dosage and only meant to bring about a couple hundred point increase to help get people to the upper level of the normal range. I think sometimes people tend to forget that some people want to be at the upper end of normal and just feel better, not necessarily have a 'cycle' level dosage.

Im 'in range' according to docs, but all on the low side, vit D on the very low side.
They said they could give me Testosterone if I want it.. but on its own, all the estrogen and blood donating is putting me off.
 

ironkill

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I'm weary of the back and forth! Lets try and objective assessment. Once ive finished my run of Ultra Test and had an appropriate break ill pay for and do bloodwork baseline and post. You tell me what you want me to test for and send me however many bottles you deem sufficient. I'll post the results on the board. No anecdotes. No stories. No conjecture. Just plain old bloodwork and numbers.

Btw im borderline low t. Have posted my latest total test bloodwork in another thread. Are you up for this?

Read my post. Im paying for 2 full panels of bloodwork. Each blood panel including free T is easily double the price of a bottle of m test. For what its worth ive used virtually all t boosters advertised on this board including m test. Im not looking for any freebies, jerk. I know it doesnt work. am willing to spend my money on additional bloodwork which may or may not corroborate this!

Just so youre aware im currently running ultra test. Jake from Antaeus sent me two bottles. Ive posted my baseline and will post a follow up in 6 weeks. I can appreciate if not everyone is up for such a challenge. All you have to say is no!
Your low t is showing. Keep looking for hand outs bud lol
 

ucheoma

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Your low t is showing. Keep looking for hand outs bud lol
Haha. Now we know what you really think of people with Low T. Catches up with all of us sooner or later. Medically im in range albeit at the lower end and am physically in good shape particularly for my age and natty, but well leave that to one side

Isnt it ironic. Sponsored log = great guy and for the most part raving reviews. Spend > 2 to 3 times the cost of the product on bloodwork.Youre asking for a handout!

Now youve made this personal following my run of ultra test I shall buy 2 bottles of M Test, run bloodwork and post up the results. Will cost me only a little bit extra. Watch this space! Till then over and out!
 
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sns8778

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Im 'in range' according to docs, but all on the low side, vit D on the very low side.
They said they could give me Testosterone if I want it.. but on its own, all the estrogen and blood donating is putting me off.
Disclaimer: I'm not posting this to debate the science of it. I'm sharing this based off of personal opinion and it's also the opinion of the best endocrinologist that I've seen through the years.

It's very possible to be within the normal range and still feel like crap because the normal range is very broad and you may still be within the normal range but your numbers be low for you or what you are historically accustomed to. I hope that makes sense.

Low dose T as in HRT therapy generally likely won't cause much in the way of anti-estrogen side effects but make sure they do regular blood to keep check just in case. And unless your blood cell count goes high, you likely wouldn't need to donate blood. That usually only happens in extreme cases. However, for most people once you start an HRT program its very hard to stop because your body's natural levels may decrease below what they were before (again, not going for the science end of things, conveying what multiple endocrinologists have told me).

Having low Vitamin D can make you feel terrible and contribute to low testosterone. I have chronically low Vitamin D and have to take 10,000 IU per day to stay in the mid to high range of normal. Everyone is different and that is too high of a dosage for some.

I would suggest always making sure they check the total testosterone, free testosterone, LH, DHEA, and thyroid levels. For thyroid, also make sure they check reverse T3, which many doctors unfortunately aren't even familiar with.

I've been through years of endocrinologists before finally finding a really good one and through so many studies. If I can help you in any way, please let me know. You're welcome to pm me and I can even give you other contact information for me if it helps.
 
sns8778

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Haha. Now we know what you really think of people with Low T. Catches up with all of us sooner or later. Medically im in range albeit at the lower end and am physically in good shape particularly for my age and natty, but well leave that to one side

Isnt it ironic. Sponsored log = great guy and for the most part raving reviews. Spend > 2 to 3 times the cost of the product on bloodwork.Youre asking for a handout!

Now youve made this personal following my run of ultra test I shall buy 2 bottles of M Test, run bloodwork and post up the results. Will cost me only a little bit extra. Watch this space! Till then over and out!
The issue I have with giving you bottles per this would be that you have come into one of our company promotional threads and said some very rude and disrespectful things, been rude to one of our reps who was only trying to help, then been rude to me and started bickering over a post that had zero to do with you; all while ignoring that before me mentioning supplements I not only agreed with others that the OP needed to get blood work done but went a step further by suggesting specific levels of things to test based on personal experience.

It's not even about you being rude, it's about you being objective and I don't think that's possible bc you've indicated an obvious dislike for me, the reps, and the company. That's not specific to us - for example, someone that doesn't like OL couldn't be trusted to give an honest review of OL products; someone that doesn't like BLR couldn't be expected to give an honest review of BLR products. It's easy to do a negative review for any product even when doing blood work; how? By not taking the product or not taking the product correctly so as to be able to show the result that you wanted to show based off of your negative opinion of the company. For example, I get blood work done routinely every 6 weeks. If I hate company XYZ and want to down their product, I can say I use it, not take a single dose and my blood work from 6 to 8 weeks later isn't going to show an effect because I didn't take it.

I've gone out of my way to be nice to you and respectful of you, even when you came into one of our threads being rude. Being rude to someone to the point where when they politely ask you to please just block or ignore their posts because they don't want to deal with your disrespect or bickering and then asking for free product is not a good way to go about things. When we do give out free product, we prefer to give it to people that are polite, helpful, and truly appreciate it.
 

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Just in case you missed it, which from your, lofty and lenghty post you seem to have I will be running m test and bloodwork starting roughly mid september. Nuff said. Keep your bottles. In fact i think i may have an unopened bottle somewhere at the bottom of my stash. I shall check the expiry date...

By the way I apologise for coming in your thread and making the remark i did. It was an idle joke as i have already explained . I realise now why it riled you so much.
 
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I’m very respectful of different point of views. I enjoy discussing them with people that can have intelligent conversations and not be rude. You’re the one that had something negative to say about my post on trying to help someone and my first interaction with you was you coming into one of our company related threads and being rude.

As far as thinking I should have ‘thicker skin’ I simply don’t like rude people or people that discount the opinions of others. People should come here to sharhelp knowledge and should show each other respect - whether they have 1 post or thousands.

I post on many subjects including many that have nothing to do with any of our products. I’m one of the biggest proponents on this forum for example for Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin for years and we don’t make one.

To your not believing me - here’s the thing - I wasn’t talking to you. You went out of your way to be a jerk to me right after being a jerk in another thread. I posted simply to help the OP. I like to help people, that’s one of the things that ppl have generally liked about me on here.

It is my belief that when someone, anyone here has gone through a medical issue in their life that it’s good to share knowledge to help others. I’ve posted here on and off for over 10 years and have discussed my issues when relevant and helped many people who were trying to get the right type of help with endocrinology & autoimmune issues. If you choose to not believe me or anyone else, that’s on you. As far as what I’ve gone through, I’ve discussed it with some of the smartest science minded people on here over the years including Synapsin, Danes, BigT, Par Deus; heck even the admin.

Apparently to you, on a supplement forum, in the supplement sections, it’s wrong for someone to make a supplement suggestion AFTER going into detail about other types of testing that may help.

I don’t like to bicker or argue. I like to help people. If you don’t like me, cool; I’m not sure if there’s a way for you to block yourself from reading my posts and if there is, have at it. Alternatively, ignore them if you don’t like them. But there’s nothing productive about bickering and you’ve repeated yourself over and over like people said for him not to seek a physicians help when almost everyone said to and I even detailed suggested blood work for him to have checked.
this guy right here is one of the coolest, most laid back guys I've ever talked with. with all his knowledge there isn't a arrogant bone in his body---all around great guy, a genuine pleasure to talk with!!!
 
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Disclaimer: I'm not posting this to debate the science of it. I'm sharing this based off of personal opinion and it's also the opinion of the best endocrinologist that I've seen through the years.

It's very possible to be within the normal range and still feel like crap because the normal range is very broad and you may still be within the normal range but your numbers be low for you or what you are historically accustomed to. I hope that makes sense.

Low dose T as in HRT therapy generally likely won't cause much in the way of anti-estrogen side effects but make sure they do regular blood to keep check just in case. And unless your blood cell count goes high, you likely wouldn't need to donate blood. That usually only happens in extreme cases. However, for most people once you start an HRT program its very hard to stop because your body's natural levels may decrease below what they were before (again, not going for the science end of things, conveying what multiple endocrinologists have told me).

Having low Vitamin D can make you feel terrible and contribute to low testosterone. I have chronically low Vitamin D and have to take 10,000 IU per day to stay in the mid to high range of normal. Everyone is different and that is too high of a dosage for some.

I would suggest always making sure they check the total testosterone, free testosterone, LH, DHEA, and thyroid levels. For thyroid, also make sure they check reverse T3, which many doctors unfortunately aren't even familiar with.

I've been through years of endocrinologists before finally finding a really good one and through so many studies. If I can help you in any way, please let me know. You're welcome to pm me and I can even give you other contact information for me if it helps.
Just the few things you mentioned with reverse t3 and more comprehensive hormone panel including mentioned above: you know what you’re talking about.
OP, I would take this advice above all else given in this thread..
 
sns8778

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Just in case you missed it, which from your, lofty and lenghty post you seem to have I will be running m test and bloodwork starting roughly mid september. Nuff said. Keep your bottles. In fact i think i may have an unopened bottle somewhere at the bottom of my stash. I shall check the expiry date...

By the way I apologise for coming in your thread and making the remark i did. It was an idle joke as i have already explained . I realise now why it riled you so much.
I didn't miss anything. I went into pretty great detail why a log from someone who repeatedly bickers with and attacks and dislikes a company isn't objective and gave very detailed examples as to why. Fact is, if someone dislikes a company, their log is not objective and they can influence their own results accordingly by simply not taking the product correctly or at all. For example, if I say I'm going to do a log on company XYZ's product and get my blood work done every 6 weeks anyway, if I say i'm taking their product and I don't and my blood work remains the same, does that mean their product doesn't work? Of course it doesn't.

I'm not sure how taking the time to reply to people with detailed information and to acknowledge the things that they say and reply to them comes off as lofty? My replies, not just in this thread, but it many are very long and detail oriented because I try to explain things thoroughly. Also, I try to post in a way that makes sense to both advanced and beginners and to people reading now or in 6 months.

And if it took you until now to realize why coming into one of our company threads and making the comment that you did ticked me off, then you obviously didn't bother to read my very detailed reply as to why I felt that your comment was disrespectful to us and to another company and that I didn't want any other companies to be disrespected in SNS/CEL related threads. And I did this while prefacing it that you may have been joking but that it was hard to tell with your tone and explaining that other people my not have taken it that way. Several other people, including some very well respected members not associated with SNS in any way now joined the discussion and explained some background information on that project and the ingredients included, the timeline, etc. Right after this is when you chose to try to start an argument in this thread over my initial post which had absolutely nothing to do with you.

I much prefer to help people than to bicker with you and I've politely asked several times that if you don't like the company, myself, etc. to please kindly just ignore my posts because every moment that is spent bickering with you is a moment of time wasted that could be used to help others. That's not to be disparaging to you either because if there's ever a time when I can help you in any way, as long as you are more respectful than you've been in the past, I'm glad to help you or anyone else any way that I can.
 
sns8778

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Just the few things you mentioned with reverse t3 and more comprehensive hormone panel including mentioned above: you know what you’re talking about.
OP, I would take this advice above all else given in this thread..
Thank you. I really appreciate that.
 

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I didn't miss anything. I went into pretty great detail why a log from someone who repeatedly bickers with and attacks and dislikes a company isn't objective and gave very detailed examples as to why. Fact is, if someone dislikes a company, their log is not objective and they can influence their own results accordingly by simply not taking the product correctly or at all. For example, if I say I'm going to do a log on company XYZ's product and get my blood work done every 6 weeks anyway, if I say i'm taking their product and I don't and my blood work remains the same, does that mean their product doesn't work? Of course it doesn't.

I'm not sure how taking the time to reply to people with detailed information and to acknowledge the things that they say and reply to them comes off as lofty? My replies, not just in this thread, but it many are very long and detail oriented because I try to explain things thoroughly. Also, I try to post in a way that makes sense to both advanced and beginners and to people reading now or in 6 months.

And if it took you until now to realize why coming into one of our company threads and making the comment that you did ticked me off, then you obviously didn't bother to read my very detailed reply as to why I felt that your comment was disrespectful to us and to another company and that I didn't want any other companies to be disrespected in SNS/CEL related threads. And I did this while prefacing it that you may have been joking but that it was hard to tell with your tone and explaining that other people my not have taken it that way. Several other people, including some very well respected members not associated with SNS in any way now joined the discussion and explained some background information on that project and the ingredients included, the timeline, etc. Right after this is when you chose to try to start an argument in this thread over my initial post which had absolutely nothing to do with you.

I much prefer to help people than to bicker with you and I've politely asked several times that if you don't like the company, myself, etc. to please kindly just ignore my posts because every moment that is spent bickering with you is a moment of time wasted that could be used to help others. That's not to be disparaging to you either because if there's ever a time when I can help you in any way, as long as you are more respectful than you've been in the past, I'm glad to help you or anyone else any way that I can.
Wow! I apologised for coming in on your thread and you launch into another tirade.

Just to clarify it isnt a log. I will be posting bloods baseline and post m test. Pure and simple. Hard numbers. Now thats what i call objective. No waffle, no commentary. No verdicts

I,ll let the numbers speak for themselves and people can interpret and draw their own conclusions. Now what's so scary about that?

You dont really have to answer as the plan is set in stone. I shall now keep my peace (this time for real!)
 

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Hi all

I did one of those home testosterone checks a couple weeks ago with an Irish company called Myclinic as have been stressed to bits lately (family troubles etc…I won’t go into it) and feeling like crap.
I didn’t get a comprehensive breakdown of the results, but just an email saying:
“LOW - L 3.6 nmol/L (7.6 - 31.4) Reference Ranges apply to adults Result Reported from Referral Laboratory”
Genuinely have no clue what that means, as I anticipated a lab report akin to what I see posted around these parts.

I’m 38, 6’2”, alternate between approx 94 and 97kgs depending on the time of year, train 5 or 6 days a week (alternating every few months between the Who Was CNS 5/3/1 and PHAT). Have a relatively clean diet and supplement wise – at the moment – I’m taking Chaos and Pains Predator with Karbolyn and Hemavol PWO, Laxogenin (Hi Tech) Universals Sterol Complex, Vitamin D, Ecklonia Cava, Outbreak Nutrition’s Rise and Fearns Lecithin.
No idea why my T-Levels are so cripplingly low.

I have some Sup3r PCT or Test1fy there to use a standalone once I finish – the admittedly useless ‘Rise’ – so hopefully they give me some sort of a boost, as I don’t want to be on TRT yet.
Would anyone have any advice on how to boost T levels naturally? Or will I just bite the bullet and go the synthetic route?

Sorry, that's a bit panicky and 'jazz hands' but genuinely at a loss here.

Cheers
This is coming from left field a bit, but is frequent masturbation / ejaculation an issue for you? Only mentioning it so we can eliminate it as a possible causal factor.
 
sns8778

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Wow! I apologised for coming in on your thread and you launch into another tirade.

Just to clarify it isnt a log. I will be posting bloods baseline and post m test. Pure and simple. Hard numbers. Now thats what i call objective. No waffle, no commentary. No verdicts

I,ll let the numbers speak for themselves and people can interpret and draw their own conclusions. Now what's so scary about that?

You dont really have to answer as the plan is set in stone. I shall now keep my peace (this time for real!)
At this point I think you just like to bicker and argue without actually taking the time to read the actual post. Someone taking the time to reply in detail isn't a tirade. You continue to post condescending things and throw insults whereas I have taken the time to actually respond to and address your points. You continue to ignore the context and details of posts and just respond with little quips or insulting comments. Sort of like when you made the condescending remark about suggesting supplements even though I'd went into great detail about the type of blood work that I think he needed to request.

Man, seriously? Just because I won't give someone whose been an absolute jerk free bottles I'm scared of something? I try to refrain from insults but at this point you're either trolling, shilling, or just like being a jerk; or a combination of the three. I explained in great detail where there is absolutely nothing objective about someone who openly hates and harasses a company doing any type of log or review on one of their products. You conveniently ignore that part. You obviously don't like us and don't like the product; so of course you can't be objective. I get my blood work done every 6 weeks. I can tell you I'm going to take a product for 6 weeks between and if I don't take it then of course my blood work isn't going to effect results. Basically to me, you're being a dick and threatening to take a product between blood work that you wouldn't even use just to try to trash the product.

As far as apologizing for coming into that thread and saying that? An apology doesn't mean much when you immediately go into another thread and start being a dick related to a post that doesn't have anything to do with you? My reply in this thread was to help the OP and anyone else reading. It had zero to do with you. So here's a novel thought - if you were truly sorry that you came off as a complete dick in the other thread and were joking, you probably wouldn't have came right into this one and done the same.

And as far as you continuing to mention the length of my posts, don't flatter yourself. It has nothing to do with you. I try to explain myself and take the time to answer people's posts and questions; you can see that in almost any thread that I post in. ;)
 
Admin

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Wow! I apologised for coming in on your thread and you launch into another tirade.

Just to clarify it isnt a log. I will be posting bloods baseline and post m test. Pure and simple. Hard numbers. Now thats what i call objective. No waffle, no commentary. No verdicts

I,ll let the numbers speak for themselves and people can interpret and draw their own conclusions. Now what's so scary about that?

You dont really have to answer as the plan is set in stone. I shall now keep my peace (this time for real!)

Just to note, AM doesn't allow testing and posting of blood work that isn't verified and approved by a 3rd party. It is also the reason why we don't allow random COA's to be posted. It simply isn't fair for the company to have such tests without their knowledge and approval.

Discussion is great but using a veiled threat of posting results that you do yourself isn't fair to a company and its products. Its why 3rd parties are used to remove bias.
 
Malbranque

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This is coming from left field a bit, but is frequent masturbation / ejaculation an issue for you? Only mentioning it so we can eliminate it as a possible causal factor.
It actually is. More so sex. Myself and my wife would have sex once a day and if I don't get it, I'll masturbate {sometimes twice a day} so yes, frequent ejaculation is very much reality in my life.
I've always had a high sex drive though, so I never really gave it much thought.
Could this be a factor!!?

Ive got some BLR Rebirth, Test1fy and low dose Bulbine {750mg} to give me a hand until I get a professional opinion.
Ill get some M-Test and switch it for Test1fy when it arrives.

Fingers crossed coz my nerves are gone

And thanks so so much to everyone who took the time to reply and give advice.
 

ucheoma

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Just to note, AM doesn't allow testing and posting of blood work that isn't verified and approved by a 3rd party. It is also the reason why we don't allow random COA's to be posted. It simply isn't fair for the company to have such tests without their knowledge and approval.

Discussion is great but using a veiled threat of posting results that you do yourself isn't fair to a company and its products. Its why 3rd parties are used to remove bias.
Thanks Admin. I wasnt aware of this rule as ive seen bloodwork posted at random on the board.

By third party do you mean the supplement company. I ask as i have a prior arrangement with AL to run bloodwork on Ultra Test.

And it was not a 'threat'. I dont understand how taking a product, taking bloodwork and sharing the results of my experience as a user/consumer is construed as a threat?

If there was some verification process to assure the test is conducted honestly I would have been more than happy to comply

However Im guessing this is now a dead end. I shall save my money and buy some nice juicy steaks
 

ucheoma

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Thanks Admin. I wasnt aware of this rule as ive seen bloodwork posted at random on the board.

By third party do you mean the supplement company. I ask as i have a prior arrangement with AL to run bloodwork on Ultra Test.

And it was not a 'threat'. I dont understand how taking a product, taking bloodwork and sharing the results of my experience as a user/consumer is construed as a threat?

If there was some verification process to assure the test is conducted honestly I would have been more than happy to comply

However Im guessing this is now a dead end. I shall save my money and buy some nice juicy steaks
@Admin. Cant seem to find the rules page. Has it been moved.

Theres a thread on this board called Product Bloodwork inviting people to share bloodwork on products theyve used. Didnt see any warnings prohibiting posting of bloods without 3rd party approval?
 
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@Admin. Cant seem to find the rules page. Has it been moved.

Theres a thread on this board called Product Bloodwork inviting people to share bloodwork on products theyve used. Didnt see any warnings prohibiting posting of bloods without 3rd party approval?
Posted in the Anabolic Section pertaining to those products.

Here is the rule about supplements. I am telling you exactly what I said above.

There is no further explanation needed.

Obviously you can do what you want and if you want to take the product and post it on your personal website, you may do so.
 
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Just to note, AM doesn't allow testing and posting of blood work that isn't verified and approved by a 3rd party. It is also the reason why we don't allow random COA's to be posted. It simply isn't fair for the company to have such tests without their knowledge and approval.

Discussion is great but using a veiled threat of posting results that you do yourself isn't fair to a company and its products. Its why 3rd parties are used to remove bias.
Is the National Health Service an approved 3rd party? Or did you mean Animal/Universal because Im running Stak then going for full bloods!
 

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It actually is. More so sex. Myself and my wife would have sex once a day and if I don't get it, I'll masturbate {sometimes twice a day} so yes, frequent ejaculation is very much reality in my life.
I've always had a high sex drive though, so I never really gave it much thought.
Could this be a factor!!?

Ive got some BLR Rebirth, Test1fy and low dose Bulbine {750mg} to give me a hand until I get a professional opinion.
Ill get some M-Test and switch it for Test1fy when it arrives.

Fingers crossed coz my nerves are gone

And thanks so so much to everyone who took the time to reply and give advice.
Love to hear about healthy heterosexual men with strong sex drives (like myself) pair-bonding with willing women who'll accommodate them!...it's a double edged sword though, because regular sex / ejaculation does make demands on the nutrient stores of the male body, whether we replenish the nutrients or not (we know zinc goes every time, for example)...and it can be self-defeating in regards to energy and building muscle...especially as we age.
Malbranque, I'm not a 'no-fap' kind of guy or anything, but right now am making the most out of my single status, new job starting September, 2 months off, so I've got ZERO excuses...will be training daily in a £20 a month (any time access) gym, starting Monday July 1st, 2019...to get absolutely shredded...no sex or ejaculation is the plan...need the discipline right now, but of course you're in a different situation with wife and kid. Sorry about your Dad and take all the time you need to grieve and heal from that loss.
You're going through some things, but you have to stay as stress free as you can, which has to help with the testosterone levels, peace.
 
HIT4ME

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So....ummm....I shouldn't have ejaculated 2x during this thread? I mean, it took me a half hour to read, but still?
 

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So....ummm....I shouldn't have ejaculated 2x during this thread? I mean, it took me a half hour to read, but still?
Haha! A half hour is a virtual BLIP compared to the time I spent reading an old back and forth between you and other members concerning the causes of insulin resistance and the keto diet...was extremely informative though, plus your humour, so thanks for that HIT4ME.
Jokes aside then, could be interesting to hear your take on ejaculation / nutrient loss / testosterone and their interaction, etc...something tells me that you perceive frequent ejaculation as harmless...no compulsion to reply though.
 

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