akboom87
Well-known member
Ah man sorry to hear that weekend should be stress free!
Yeah been watching the snow predictions they look crazy. And we have no snow it’s wild.
Looks like a good deload session!
Segansational's Motivation Log
- Thread starter Segansational
- Start date
Yeah been watching the snow predictions they look crazy. And we have no snow it’s wild.
Looks like a good deload session!
Dustin07
Legend
I know we have already had this debate and I'm not looking to stir anything but I still whole heartedly disagree with this with every fiber of my soul. I have felt a bit validated lately on ancestry, doing a very deep dive finding that the vast majority of my ancestors arrived in the new world between 1608 and 1740 from England mostly, as well as Ireland and Scottland and the repetitive thing I see of all of these people is that unless they had a freak occurance, almost all seemed to live over 70, with many many many of them in the 80s and 90s. I'm a firm believer that 70-100 years of age is not an outlier and that its not modern medicine that is extending primative mans life, but that modern medicine is helping bandaid the side effects of the very things that shorten modern mans life (poisons in our food, stress, the digital era, etc).
Again, not looking to cause an argument cause I know we already touched on this debate but I find revalidation of my theory that we very well SHOULD be living to these ages beyond 70yrs old and its not modern medicine saving us, but modern external factors hindering us.
Segansational
Well-known member
Well, I would tend to agree that there are certainly more external environmental stressors bombarding us now likely than when we were a less global, less technology driven society. That said, I'm not sure they're any better or worse off than what we might have dealt with locally in the past. But I think we can agree that a lot of modern medicine is to deal with the effects vs root cause.
Segansational
Well-known member
Got 10" of snow overnight into Monday, so kids were off from school. Lost power for 8 hours, so that was interesting. We have a back up, gas powered generator just for the essentials (heat, fridge) so we weren't cold at least.
But that meant a forced rest day again - although plowing / shoveling could probably count as cardio!
Finished up my Day 4-5 deload workout, so made up for lost time today. Completion of Meso 2 is officially in the books. Will be looking for a new one to start up probably Thursday, with maybe just a cardio day tomorrow morning.
M2, Wk5, D4 & 5 - Deload Week
Working Sets:
BB squats, 1 set
SLDLs, 2 sets
Seated leg ext, 1 set
DB laterals, 2 sets
Chin ups, 1 set
BB Flexion Rows, 1 set
Machine Chest Press, 1 set
DB incline flys, 1 set
47:50, 120 cals.
Pre/intra combo: Same as usual, added back in 1g ALCAR pre-WO.
But that meant a forced rest day again - although plowing / shoveling could probably count as cardio!
Finished up my Day 4-5 deload workout, so made up for lost time today. Completion of Meso 2 is officially in the books. Will be looking for a new one to start up probably Thursday, with maybe just a cardio day tomorrow morning.
M2, Wk5, D4 & 5 - Deload Week
Working Sets:
BB squats, 1 set
SLDLs, 2 sets
Seated leg ext, 1 set
DB laterals, 2 sets
Chin ups, 1 set
BB Flexion Rows, 1 set
Machine Chest Press, 1 set
DB incline flys, 1 set
47:50, 120 cals.
Pre/intra combo: Same as usual, added back in 1g ALCAR pre-WO.
Dustin07
Legend
I'm jealous of your snow. 10"!! wow, I don't think we've seen anything like that since 2019 out here. although a power outtage would stress me out a bit because of the fish tank. I'm sure I could fire up the generator but what a pain...
Totally agree. I think toxicity in our foods, water, sedentary lifestyles, etc are all culprits. I told my wife imagine if we lived in my old bachelor pad loft in Tacoma, instead of on our mini funny farm. Instead of spending the whole weekend hauling wheelbarrow loads of dirt, putting in fence posts, building garden beds, chicken coops, and greenhouses or chopping wood, what would we do? Probably go to the gym, yes, but then? theater? eat? sit? its really easy for modern folks to simply not move a lot when they don't need to. I don't even blame them. Motion creates motion.
Segansational
Well-known member
100%!No pun intended, shoveling a driveway after getting hit with 10” IS a real workout for the low back
That's why my back is feeling achy this morning!
akboom87
Well-known member
Yeah 10” with a shovel is no joke. You gonna run the same meso?
Segansational
Well-known member
No, my plan is to try a new one. I also am thinking of dropping back to only 4 days / wk vs 5 currently, and that's purely based on current fatigue levels.
I'm still unsure how I want to handle my health issues at the moment, but putting a lot of my labs, current training and nutrition into chatGPT it came up with this tailored feedback:
High-output early stress compression + mild accumulated CNS fatigue + under-optimized carb timing.
Extremely common in disciplined, lean, early-morning lifters.
《 so for what it's worth, basically relatively normal scenario of what I'm experiencing fatigue-wise based on my current lifestyle & schedule, with high performance demands.
Recommendations were around:
1. Maintaining lower caffeine/stim level - already doing in general, minus the ephedrine I recently added.
2. Reducing training volume to 4x/wk - vs currently 5x, and emphasizing deloads, as I am currently in my Mesos.
3. Increasing cals back to maintenance and implementing higher intra/post-WO carbs - basically wants me to double my current carb intake peri-WO.
4. Strategically implementing a carb heavy refeed day/meal.
The last two don't fit well with my current physique goals, but again, I think it's a trade off factor now. While I'm nowhere as lean as some of you guys (14.2% currently and just dipped under the 155# mark finally!), I think I'm basically hitting that dieting/prep feeling that bodybuilders go through. I honestly don't know how competitors do it when they get contest lean if this is how I feel being fairly "normal" to an average athlete.
So, TL
R suck it up buttercup! 
and mostly aligned with PCP regarding underlying issues/lack thereof. Even based on sleep results AHI, not saying I have even mild OSA. It's more timing of my training, volume load, and nutrition deficit.
Segansational
Well-known member
Also, since I'm going down the rabbit hole, bouncing between feeling slightly depressed/stressed, making progress/making no progress, feeling/looking like sh!t and other days feeling good about my progress, plus caught between action/inaction...
Here's a few other things to chew on (pun intended!):
Post-WO shake consists of 1 scoop whey protein, 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 banana, 2 tbsp PB, 1 cup unsweetened vanilla almond milk. Pretty religious with this as my first meal of the day post-WO. Macro breakdown:
Carbs: ~50 g
Protein: ~40 g
Fat: ~22–23 g
AI overlords want me to up my oats to 3/4 to 1 cup oats, plus full banana, reduce PB to 1 tbsp. Which would put post-WO carbs closer to 70-100g. And consider doing full HBCD scoop of 25g intra-WO.
Also want me to add a 2-3 PM afternoon carb heavy snack, something like bagel or rice cakes & whey, etc. Lighter on protein with carbs as the main focus to combat lethargy.
As you guys know, I cut my afternoon snack purposefully to keep cals in cutting phase, but am willing to give it a go to try and offset the fatigue.
Midweek Weigh-in: 154.8#
BF: 14.1%
Here's two recent progress photos, only from the back with shirt off as I'm still fairly dissappointed with how my midsection looks. You can see how much I still have to go based on the lower back fat/looseness, but upper back is starting to take shape again. Quad shot looking half decent IMO, but still need more width and deeper separation.
Here's a few other things to chew on (pun intended!):
Post-WO shake consists of 1 scoop whey protein, 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 banana, 2 tbsp PB, 1 cup unsweetened vanilla almond milk. Pretty religious with this as my first meal of the day post-WO. Macro breakdown:
Carbs: ~50 g
Protein: ~40 g
Fat: ~22–23 g
AI overlords want me to up my oats to 3/4 to 1 cup oats, plus full banana, reduce PB to 1 tbsp. Which would put post-WO carbs closer to 70-100g. And consider doing full HBCD scoop of 25g intra-WO.
Also want me to add a 2-3 PM afternoon carb heavy snack, something like bagel or rice cakes & whey, etc. Lighter on protein with carbs as the main focus to combat lethargy.
As you guys know, I cut my afternoon snack purposefully to keep cals in cutting phase, but am willing to give it a go to try and offset the fatigue.
Midweek Weigh-in: 154.8#
BF: 14.1%
Here's two recent progress photos, only from the back with shirt off as I'm still fairly dissappointed with how my midsection looks. You can see how much I still have to go based on the lower back fat/looseness, but upper back is starting to take shape again. Quad shot looking half decent IMO, but still need more width and deeper separation.
Dustin07
Legend
without knowing your total daily macro/calories right now, I'd actually agree with the AI here. although for me personally, I'd not be using the ephederine, and instead would be enjoying an extra cup of coffee or sugar free redbull if I needed it, but thats me. I've never liked pb for a nutritional source during a cut because its way to easy to grab too many calories and fats. I'd rather get my fats from meats and avocados mostly, or the butter and olive oil I tend to cook in.
You know, I appologize but I must have missed it, I didn't realizee you were battling a health issue?
When I was strength focused and bulking I never needed to deload but I was basicaly doing a 4x per week, the recovery was fantastic. Would fasting one day per week during recovery not work for you?
Your V taper is looking solid though, definitely nothing wrong with that!!
Hyde
Legend
Agree with Dustin & AI; I was shocked to read the 2tbsp of pb postWO. It’s established too much fat here can turn down the exercise-induced MPS, and beyond that it’s going to delay the glycogen replenishment. I can see 1tbsp to help add some satiety to this otherwise very fast meal, but 1tbsp is plenty - about 10g fats is really all you should take in here, in a perfectly-tuned environment.
It’s good to put cheat meals postWO because the body will gain the least fat from them, but eating a fatty cheat meal postWO routinely would NOT be ideal for growth or recovery. You’d want it at the meal following if anywhere.
Be careful with the afternoon meals, whey and a bagel is FAST, so if you find the energy spiking and crashing consider something like turkey lunchmeat and slice of cheese on that bagel for similar calorie total but lower glycemic index. Or blend a sweet potato with your whey, get creative. But individual food choices and responses matter for how you feel, which is the point of all this. Could be Greek yogurt and fruit, etc.
It’s good to put cheat meals postWO because the body will gain the least fat from them, but eating a fatty cheat meal postWO routinely would NOT be ideal for growth or recovery. You’d want it at the meal following if anywhere.
Be careful with the afternoon meals, whey and a bagel is FAST, so if you find the energy spiking and crashing consider something like turkey lunchmeat and slice of cheese on that bagel for similar calorie total but lower glycemic index. Or blend a sweet potato with your whey, get creative. But individual food choices and responses matter for how you feel, which is the point of all this. Could be Greek yogurt and fruit, etc.
Hyde
Legend
I want to impart one last thought, really just from one dad to another: you are enough as you are. Your family needs you present and loving more than they need you jacked and distant/angry/unhealthy. So all the personal goals we pursue as men, which are very important for deriving satisfaction & personal growth in this life, should be (loosely) obeying that tenant.
The truth is hard things will be hard, and the 4-burner theory is real - sometimes focus must shift temporarily to get X done. You will have to push yourself & grit your teeth sometimes, counting to 10 or learning to endure so you can pursue X while the family doesn’t suffer. But as husbands and fathers, it is imperative we minimize that time the family gets the backburner. Because if we let that grow too cold, we lose the very foundation of well-being that props us up. And same for keeping your job - the stress you feel now is nothing compared to being unemployed or divorced!
So I always try to weigh this with my competing. How & when I train, the drugs I do (or don’t) take, what I do for the sake of my family even if it’s not optimal for my goals. Because having a well-rounded life IS optimal for my longterm success, so in a roundabout way even that does selfishly support my goals. It just takes pulling back the microscope to see the forest for the trees.
The truth is hard things will be hard, and the 4-burner theory is real - sometimes focus must shift temporarily to get X done. You will have to push yourself & grit your teeth sometimes, counting to 10 or learning to endure so you can pursue X while the family doesn’t suffer. But as husbands and fathers, it is imperative we minimize that time the family gets the backburner. Because if we let that grow too cold, we lose the very foundation of well-being that props us up. And same for keeping your job - the stress you feel now is nothing compared to being unemployed or divorced!
So I always try to weigh this with my competing. How & when I train, the drugs I do (or don’t) take, what I do for the sake of my family even if it’s not optimal for my goals. Because having a well-rounded life IS optimal for my longterm success, so in a roundabout way even that does selfishly support my goals. It just takes pulling back the microscope to see the forest for the trees.
Dustin07
Legend
as I get older and presumably more mature (psyche!) I also feel this is the greatest health hack you can focus on. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that stress is a far greater killer than smoking, alcohol, drugs, or anything else. We put high stress lifestyles up on the pedestal, and in some ways thats what makes the American way so great, but balance is paramount. In 2026, my wife and I really had only 2 resolutions: More fun, and more "Play". not the overly expensive keep up the jones type stuff, more like recapturing youth. There is something about ages 30-60 when we are in our prime earning years, raising families, that we lose touch with how great life is as we work so hard thinking we are building a life while it races through our fingers. don't blink! I realized this week I graduated 25 years ago this year. WILD! I told my mom and she said "I just realized I have a 43 yr old son!" lol.
Don't blink! Don't waste time on stress. <-- there's your cortisol!
Segansational
Well-known member
Mostly the ongoing fatigue issues, but also potentially sleep apnea, and I deal with clinically diagnosed anxiety and undiagnosed depression.
Trying to get all of my health stuff in order, which is why I've been going through a lot of lab work, sleep study, calcium CT this Friday, etc.
Also slipped and fell on some ice this morning where I whacked my knee and hip good on the driveway. So that was fun.
This really means a lot. Today particularly I was feeling undervalued and like I give my all to others without any recognition or understanding. I don't need it most of the time, I do feel that's our job as a father, husband, good worker, etc. - the thankless stuff, the invisible sacrifices we are happy to make - but it's been a rough couple of days at home and work.
This image to me sums up what I was feeling if you replace "son" with "family".
Also, not to get too sappy, but I appreciate all of you sincerely. The AM folks here feel like real friends even though we're only keyboard friends and I've never met you gents in person. We lift each other up, have same work ethic, and understand the trials and tribulations we go through as amateur athletes.
Dustin07
Legend
I would never recommend against medical help for something serous, especially sleep apnea, but I have seen too many times where all 4 of these symptoms appear to be very very common in men our age. that 30-50 bracket, usually stress related, causes one, then the other, then the other, then the other. So while I'd never say that you don't have outlying medical issues needing medical support, I also ponder the idea that much of this could be natural four burner type stuff.
SO I have massive empathy for you. I often think back to 2016 where I had all of these things (not apnea, I only experience that when I'm over 200lbs, and you're not fat), but the rest are often very very connected and related to stress, burning the candle at both ends, a sense of what we are spending our time on not being fullfilling, etc. again, I'm not saying its necessarily all in your head, just that these symptoms are often lifestyle and a need for balance as we all discuss in here a bit.
akboom87
Well-known member
It helps all of us here like a big group of gym bros, but deep down we all care and help each others all that we can.
If you don’t mind me asking, you don’t have to say if you don’t want to, but what line of work are you in?
Dustin07
Legend
level 1 is seeking gains
level 2 is accomplishing gains and feeling great about it
level 3 is when you get far more excited seeing your bro's accomplishments!!
akboom87
Well-known member
That’s the truth I get fired up seeing everyone in here hitting goals and PR’s and just winning in life in general
sammpedd88
Well-known member
Great advice right here!!
Segansational
Well-known member
Yes, I totally get that we are the outliers likely in life. Dedicated to waking up before the sun to put in the hard work to improve our bodies and chase goals in the gym.
While also working to provide for our spouses, kids, etc.
So a lot of aspects of our life are turned up.
I work in marketing for a Fortune 500 company, so a high stress environment and demand to perform at high levels while also continued workforce & headcount cuts occur regularly, as is the current trend across the industry.
That’s the truth I get fired up seeing everyone in here hitting goals and PR’s and just winning in life in general
this! Love seeing my gym bros achieving their goals!
Segansational
Well-known member
New Meso started today. Went with @MrKleen73 recommendation and built my own. Chest/back predominant focus again, biceps/triceps secondary. Legs just maintenance volume for now as I scale back on total volume and days/week.
So, this morning looked like this:
Meso 3, Week 1, Day 1 - Custom Template
Working sets, 2 sets of each exercise.
Bench Press
Machine Flys
EZ Bar Curls
DB Laterals
- Noting that my knee was still a bit tender and my hip/buttocks is pretty sore from where I fell yesterday, so while BB Squats were programmed, I opted to skip the leg movement while I heal up. So all upper body today!
1 hr 1 mins, 200 cals.
Pre: 1 scoop Ignition Switch, 1g ALCAR, 25mg ephedrine.
Intra: Same as prior.
Notes
Did end up doing a whole banana and half the PB yesterday in my shake, along with 3/4 cup oats. 1 cup would just be too much volume for my shake.
Also had a Dave's Killer Bread bagel at 3 PM in the afternoon. Plain, untoasted and dry was pretty bland, but it got the job done. 53g of carbs, 10g of protein.
While my stomach all day was a little suspect, my energy levels were much better in this more fed state. So will continue to give this a try the remainder of the week and see if that was a one off or a reliable change in energy levels.
However, also noting that yesterday I opted to just do cardio on the bike.
So, this morning looked like this:
Meso 3, Week 1, Day 1 - Custom Template
Working sets, 2 sets of each exercise.
Bench Press
Machine Flys
EZ Bar Curls
DB Laterals
- Noting that my knee was still a bit tender and my hip/buttocks is pretty sore from where I fell yesterday, so while BB Squats were programmed, I opted to skip the leg movement while I heal up. So all upper body today!
1 hr 1 mins, 200 cals.
Pre: 1 scoop Ignition Switch, 1g ALCAR, 25mg ephedrine.
Intra: Same as prior.
Notes
Did end up doing a whole banana and half the PB yesterday in my shake, along with 3/4 cup oats. 1 cup would just be too much volume for my shake.
Also had a Dave's Killer Bread bagel at 3 PM in the afternoon. Plain, untoasted and dry was pretty bland, but it got the job done. 53g of carbs, 10g of protein.
While my stomach all day was a little suspect, my energy levels were much better in this more fed state. So will continue to give this a try the remainder of the week and see if that was a one off or a reliable change in energy levels.
However, also noting that yesterday I opted to just do cardio on the bike.
akboom87
Well-known member
Looks like a fun session! I feel my energy and just overall out put is the best when I can eat small meals or snacks every 2-3 hours seems to keep me pretty even.
I can see how that line of work would be stressful and yeah seems like always hearing about cutting employees.
Dustin07
Legend
I was thinking about you last night cause I ran from dinner with my boy straight to farm work still wearing my slacks and work shirt but I had things that needed to get done before the sun went down, then some work in the wife's greenhouse since we approaching D-Day there, etc etc burning the candle at both ends and what occurred to me is those gym days you have where the kids show up, and you include them in some way. its like, on a Saturday I might prefer to either be golfing, or hitting the gym, or even a movie marathon on the couch, the way you plan for a 1hr focused gym session but end up "working out" with the kids, or something and even though the target goal wasn't necessarily accomplished, the thing that was done is truly more fulfilling in the long run. I guess long story short what I was thinking is that you do seem to have a good head on your shoulders and your pursuit of balance seems like its on a really good path.
The other thing I think about is how we train and wreck ourselves so that we rebuild bigger and stronger with more capacity and life does the same thing but instead of DOM's we get fatigue, anxiety, maybe even depression. When I owned that second business for a while it kicked my ass but I often think about even though that year of my life felt like I was dying, my capacity for crisis and difficulties is FAR beyond what it was because of those experiences and the grinding you are doing is giving you increased capacity in that way too.
But muscles need rest days and so does the mind- and refeeds!
dope!
PolishHamm3r77
Well-known member
I can consume a half cup fine but 1 cup of oats sits lead lead in my gut.
Segansational
Well-known member
Appreciate it man.
Yeah, I did 3/4 cup yesterday as true oatmeal and it was a bit to get down. Shake is actually quicker / easier.
3/4 cup is definitely my limit in one sitting.
Did do another day of this routine though, 3/4 cup oats + 1/2 banana in the AM. Dave's Killer Bagel late afternoon and energy level was pretty good until a more normal time (6 PMish / post dinner). One more day of this might prove the point.
Although today's a bit of an oddity since I had no stims pre-WO due to a medical imaging appointment. Still got in a workout though!
Segansational
Well-known member
M3, W1, D2
Working sets,
Neutral Grip Pull Ups, 2 sets
Seated Cable Rows, 2 sets
EZ bar Skull Crushers, 2 sets
BB Upright Rows, 3 sets
1 hr 7 mins, 186 cals.
Pre: 1g ALCAR, 1 scoop Bucked Up Pump-ocolypse (non-stim pre), 1g Choline Citrate.
Intra: Same as usual, although just finished up my tub of Glycofuse.
Karbolyn will be my carb source intra up next.
Notes
As stated on my previous post, no stims pre-WO today as I have a CT scan coming up where they said no caffeine 4 hrs prior. So this morning's workout was slow going. Pump-ocolypse wrecked my stomach, as expected due to the HydroPrime...
Knee, hip and psoas on left side all felt sore/tight this AM. Wondering if I was favoring my right side and some overcompensation messed with things a bit. So did a fair amount of warm up and stretching.
Also noting that my kids have been stringing together consecutive nights without waking up, so I am getting some uninterrupted sleep as well. So, all in all things headed in the right direction!
Working sets,
Neutral Grip Pull Ups, 2 sets
Seated Cable Rows, 2 sets
EZ bar Skull Crushers, 2 sets
BB Upright Rows, 3 sets
1 hr 7 mins, 186 cals.
Pre: 1g ALCAR, 1 scoop Bucked Up Pump-ocolypse (non-stim pre), 1g Choline Citrate.
Intra: Same as usual, although just finished up my tub of Glycofuse.
Karbolyn will be my carb source intra up next.
Notes
As stated on my previous post, no stims pre-WO today as I have a CT scan coming up where they said no caffeine 4 hrs prior. So this morning's workout was slow going. Pump-ocolypse wrecked my stomach, as expected due to the HydroPrime...
Knee, hip and psoas on left side all felt sore/tight this AM. Wondering if I was favoring my right side and some overcompensation messed with things a bit. So did a fair amount of warm up and stretching.
Also noting that my kids have been stringing together consecutive nights without waking up, so I am getting some uninterrupted sleep as well. So, all in all things headed in the right direction!
Dustin07
Legend
You're going to wake up in a couple days and they're going to be in high school and now you're biggest stress is going to be their safety as they get their first drivers license, and how they are behaving on a date with the opposite sex! All the sudden you'll be like damn, I could swear it was just yesterday that they weren't even sleeping through the night.....
Segansational
Well-known member
So, a quick weight / body comp update:
Even with the added afternoon carb meal, plus extra carbs post-WO my weight has continued to drop. Hit a low I haven't seen in 5 years! Officially under the 154# mark and under 14% BF.
Friday's weigh in was: 153.8#
BF: 13.9%
It was back in October of 2021, but I was half way through a cutting phase as well and started to look gnarly (abs/veins). So I know I'm close!
Even with the added afternoon carb meal, plus extra carbs post-WO my weight has continued to drop. Hit a low I haven't seen in 5 years! Officially under the 154# mark and under 14% BF.
Friday's weigh in was: 153.8#
BF: 13.9%
It was back in October of 2021, but I was half way through a cutting phase as well and started to look gnarly (abs/veins). So I know I'm close!
Segansational
Well-known member
Yesterday ended up doing 29 mins of cardio on the bike, 177 cals. Also was able to get in a massage before my shoulder blade/upper back knots got too bad.
Also got my Ca CT coronary test done and my 10 year CV risk is low right now, so feeling like in general at least I have all of my health markers in check.
Still planning on doing something for the apnea, but may start small with an OAT / MAD device first before going full on Darth Vader, lol.
This AM's WO:
M3, W1, D3
Working sets,
Low Incline BP, 2 sets
Machine Press, 2 sets
Machine Preacher Curls, 3 sets
SLDLs, 1 set
1 hr 5 mins, 197 cals.
Pre: 1 scoop Ignition Switch, 1g Choline Citrate, 25mg ephedrine.
Intra: 1 scoop A&S EAAs, 2 scoops Creatine HCl, 1/2 scoop Karbolyn (25g carbs), 1 packet Ryse Hydration.
Notes
My neck on the right side is feeling a little knotted and off, and coming into today's WO my muscles felt a little shaky/unstable on incline presses due to the massage. Was planning to do makeup squats today, but I managed again to bang my left knee (same one I fell on), so once again my legs weren't feeling 100%.
The good news is that according to my fitbit my readiness scores over the past week and leading into today's session have been comparatively high. So either the reduced WO volume, increased carb intake, or combo of both is helping.
Also got my Ca CT coronary test done and my 10 year CV risk is low right now, so feeling like in general at least I have all of my health markers in check.
Still planning on doing something for the apnea, but may start small with an OAT / MAD device first before going full on Darth Vader, lol.
This AM's WO:
M3, W1, D3
Working sets,
Low Incline BP, 2 sets
Machine Press, 2 sets
Machine Preacher Curls, 3 sets
SLDLs, 1 set
1 hr 5 mins, 197 cals.
Pre: 1 scoop Ignition Switch, 1g Choline Citrate, 25mg ephedrine.
Intra: 1 scoop A&S EAAs, 2 scoops Creatine HCl, 1/2 scoop Karbolyn (25g carbs), 1 packet Ryse Hydration.
Notes
My neck on the right side is feeling a little knotted and off, and coming into today's WO my muscles felt a little shaky/unstable on incline presses due to the massage. Was planning to do makeup squats today, but I managed again to bang my left knee (same one I fell on), so once again my legs weren't feeling 100%.
The good news is that according to my fitbit my readiness scores over the past week and leading into today's session have been comparatively high. So either the reduced WO volume, increased carb intake, or combo of both is helping.
Segansational
Well-known member
Thanks, some days it feels like it, others I'm not so sure. That might just be the negative voice inside talking, but it did dawn on me that at same BF at same weight from 5 years ago actually might mean I've made no meaningful progress...
To your question above though, my wife has suspected I stop breathing at times while sleeping probably more timed with when I was at my peak heaviness. Doesn't notice it nearly as much now.
That said, while the Lofta home sleep study says I do have mild sleep apnea, according to the numbers AI tells me it's not clinically meaningful. So partly has me between not doing anything and taking the lowest level path forward, which is the OAT/MAD vs CPAP:
AHI: 1.6 (only on back)
Oxygen nadir: 91%
Mean O₂: 96%
REM: 38%
What This Means
An AHI of 1.6 is not sleep apnea.
Diagnostic cutoffs:
5–15 = mild OSA
15–30 = moderate
30+ = severe
You are well below the diagnostic threshold.
Oxygen:
Nadir 91% is mild and not concerning.
Mean 96% is normal.
No meaningful desaturation burden.
REM at 38% is actually robust (normal ~20–25%).
That means:
You are entering REM.
You are not being heavily fragmented.
You are not having significant oxygen instability.
This is not clinically meaningful OSA.
Dustin07
Legend
yeah I remember when I was a kid I had it a bit (like age 20-22) but I was also at peak heavy weight. These days I noticed I 100% can wake up gasping when I weigh over 200lbs. Sleep apnea and snoring both are a result of me having too much do drink or being overweight, IMO. Genetic outliers exist for people who are pre-disposed to it because of physical shape of their body, But I'd suspect at our ages that if it "comes" and can go away, I'd think its weight gain (or drinking, which you don't do, so...). it sounds like your test results are a net positive though?
Segansational
Well-known member
Yes, all pretty positive and generally seem to be in good health really with everything aside from the higher inflammatory apoB marker.
So I feel like I'm stuck in this weird spot now. I could probably easily do nothing and be fine. But I keep wondering if I should do something. And that's not only for the potential mild sleep apnea, but also for the TRT equation. Could I stay the course as is? Sure. Would I derive benefit from some low level modifications? Maybe, but also there are potential downsides to every intervention as well. So if it's not "necessary" are these modifcations goinf to do more harm than good? I just feel like I am stuck in this indecision cycle now. Plus I just spent a lot of money to essentially find I might do nothing? LOL.
akboom87
Well-known member
Well not wasted money, you now don’t have to wonder because you have had the study done.
As far as the other questions I don’t have much information. I feel like a lot of that is a personal choice. Pros and cons to everything.
Either way man you have most people beat you get up, make things happen, got a good physique and hit the weights
Segansational
Well-known member
Appreciate you, AK.Well not wasted money, you now don’t have to wonder because you have had the study done.
As far as the other questions I don’t have much information. I feel like a lot of that is a personal choice. Pros and cons to everything.
Either way man you have most people beat you get up, make things happen, got a good physique and hit the weights
M3, W1, D3
Working sets,
BB Squats, 2 sets - tested squats today.
Lat Pulldowns, 2 sets
Dips, 2 sets
BB Shrugs, 2 sets
1 hr 17 mins, 272 cals.
Pre: Same as prior
Intra: Same as prior
Notes
First day testing my squats since my fall. A little soreness still in my glutes out of the hole, but thought about @Hyde powering through his meet stiff legging 501 lbs and said if he can do that, I can lift a measly amount of weight today! Lat pulldowns felt really good for the first time in a long time. Still using poverty weights, but no shoulder issues and just a lot of back activation and mind-muscle connection. On paper this WO didn't look like much, but everything felt good and largely pain free.
Dustin07
Legend
what do you want to do? what action would help you accomplish your goals?
Hyde
Legend
The thing I consider when something hurts is, do I believe working through the pain will make things worse? If I can still do what I want despite the pain, and the activity is not making things worse, then it’s okay.
When in doubt, do not push! Rest is always safest. However, total rest can often make recovery take even longer actually, and pushing hard can also mean setbacks, so approaching activity with a rehab mindset is often the best compromise. “I’m going to try to get some gentle movement and bloodflow while keeping pain at/below a 4 out of 10” is ideal if you know just waiting an extra day or two still won’t be enough to get back to things for real.
Well you know you won’t benefit from a CPAP. You probably wouldn’t even benefit from one of the sleep mouthpieces you can get online for $50. But I wouldn’t consider TRT unless you feel very strongly that it’s what you want for yourself. I mean that is a very big deal that’s not easy to come back from if you regret it. You should be resolved this is something you want for yourself despite the costs and hassles.
I would definitely also consider experimenting with L-Carnitine injections first if you are considering TRT, because you should understand what a lifetime of injections can look like. I believe a couple pins with an insulin syringe weekly to be pretty easy & convenient, but some people cannot stand injections after a while, even little ones. Or they truly struggle with fear of needles.
When in doubt, do not push! Rest is always safest. However, total rest can often make recovery take even longer actually, and pushing hard can also mean setbacks, so approaching activity with a rehab mindset is often the best compromise. “I’m going to try to get some gentle movement and bloodflow while keeping pain at/below a 4 out of 10” is ideal if you know just waiting an extra day or two still won’t be enough to get back to things for real.
Well you know you won’t benefit from a CPAP. You probably wouldn’t even benefit from one of the sleep mouthpieces you can get online for $50. But I wouldn’t consider TRT unless you feel very strongly that it’s what you want for yourself. I mean that is a very big deal that’s not easy to come back from if you regret it. You should be resolved this is something you want for yourself despite the costs and hassles.
I would definitely also consider experimenting with L-Carnitine injections first if you are considering TRT, because you should understand what a lifetime of injections can look like. I believe a couple pins with an insulin syringe weekly to be pretty easy & convenient, but some people cannot stand injections after a while, even little ones. Or they truly struggle with fear of needles.
Dustin07
Legend
this one got me
older I get all the sudden the white coat syndrome is setting in. was never an issue in my youth.
Hyde
Legend
If you ever ended up needing it, just remember your wife could always poke you in the butt once a week no issue. You’d barely feel a pinch.this one got me
older I get all the sudden the white coat syndrome is setting in. was never an issue in my youth.
Also, she could do your injections.
ba-dum-pah!
Segansational
Well-known member
Not have a mid physique / dad bod after having worked out for 26 years, LOL. In all seriousness though, for as much as this lifestyle and my thoughts are consumed by improving my fitness, learning more about training techniques, nutrition, supplementation, etc. I think I barely look like I workout. Maybe I don't have the genetics. Maybe I being real here for a minute don't have the fortitude. I mean, here I am complaining about being tired and needing to introduce carbs back in while just below 14% BF.
As mentioned before, a real goal though is to step on stage or platform at some point in my lifetime to prove to myself that I genuinely belong here. That I will 100% make happen - I still don't have a concrete timeframe just with family & kids, life stress, job hunting, etc. - but I still have that plan. I do think I need a true "mentor" or coach to help me action plan it to reality though.
I'd like to be able to hit my best physique by 45 though, which is only a few years away...
The good news was that pushing yesterday was perfectly a fine decision. Back at it this AM with my cardio session on the bike and no knee pain.
I think for me I will still test out a mouthpiece device because in the grand scheme of things the cost investment is minimal, for potential upside return. And I should know either way pretty fast.
Re: TRT, reality is, I can either go that route or keep on with the PH route. Either way there is going to be some level of measured "risk". So at this point it's just which lifestyle do I want, weighing the level of risk tolerance, and which will produce better physique comp, and when to pull that lever. I've been holding off my next oral cycle because I was waiting to see if I'd hop on TRT first.
Completely separate thought:
Who's going to the Arnold this year? I unfortunately can't, but looking forward to what should be a pretty good show particularly in open with Hadi, Andrew, Nick, Martin, Brandon. Probably those are your top 5 (not necessarily in that order).
Resolve10
Member
Lots going on in here!
Honestly while at initial glance it may feel bad to have spent on tests just to see things are "fine", isn't that also part of the point? Take it as a chance to realize you don't need to add certain things and there isn't any major issues to worry about.
Not having an "answer" can be tough though if you do feel something amiss, I understand.
Overall it can be tough though, especially being in this "game" for so long. I fully understand my random opinions may not mean much, but I'll offer a couple (hopefully) quick thoughts.
Take a step back. The longer you stay at this stuff the more there is a temptation to just keep adding "more". Spiraling down holes of adding, this exercise, this supplement, this routine, this optimization, forever and ever. There is a "pressure" when you keep doing that as all these things seem to stack up. Maybe step back and find something else non-related to put that energy into. If you have the type of personality that likes digging into and learning these things put that effort into a different hobby or interest. It might seem wrong, but release some of the stress and pressure directed towards training, you may find that you are already doing many of the right big things and lots of the little stresses you are worrying about continuing to look for are just added unnecessary stress.
We live in a time where you can offload lots of this thinking too. You already seem to with training, but there are lots of resources available for training and nutrition. Or even take some of the money you'd spend on other areas of "fitness" dial them back and redirect them into working with someone for a bit. You don't have to be in this all alone, I like to outsource my thinking at times so then training and nutrition I am just "executing" not worrying and plotting it extensively. Hope that makes sense!
Regardless I know it is tough, you seem like a good dude and it is hard for good dudes out there. Life, family, and work and being so conscious and caring about all of them is tough, may not even leave time for yourself. But you deserve it, I can feel how much you care bleed into your posts, hope you find the right path.
Honestly while at initial glance it may feel bad to have spent on tests just to see things are "fine", isn't that also part of the point? Take it as a chance to realize you don't need to add certain things and there isn't any major issues to worry about.
Not having an "answer" can be tough though if you do feel something amiss, I understand.
Get these thoughts out of here. Seriously. Look how long you've been here and how long you've been consistent. That is well beyond what most can muster, you should be proud. The internet distorts expectations, we all (or most) have been there. There is always more, always better, there is always a feeling you haven't lived up when you look at it.
General rule. If you can do something and it isn't too uncomfortable and painful if afterwards symptoms are the same or better keep at it and even feel free to slowly add more. If after things feel worse back off a little. Things can be fluid.
Overall it can be tough though, especially being in this "game" for so long. I fully understand my random opinions may not mean much, but I'll offer a couple (hopefully) quick thoughts.
Take a step back. The longer you stay at this stuff the more there is a temptation to just keep adding "more". Spiraling down holes of adding, this exercise, this supplement, this routine, this optimization, forever and ever. There is a "pressure" when you keep doing that as all these things seem to stack up. Maybe step back and find something else non-related to put that energy into. If you have the type of personality that likes digging into and learning these things put that effort into a different hobby or interest. It might seem wrong, but release some of the stress and pressure directed towards training, you may find that you are already doing many of the right big things and lots of the little stresses you are worrying about continuing to look for are just added unnecessary stress.
We live in a time where you can offload lots of this thinking too. You already seem to with training, but there are lots of resources available for training and nutrition. Or even take some of the money you'd spend on other areas of "fitness" dial them back and redirect them into working with someone for a bit. You don't have to be in this all alone, I like to outsource my thinking at times so then training and nutrition I am just "executing" not worrying and plotting it extensively. Hope that makes sense!
Regardless I know it is tough, you seem like a good dude and it is hard for good dudes out there. Life, family, and work and being so conscious and caring about all of them is tough, may not even leave time for yourself. But you deserve it, I can feel how much you care bleed into your posts, hope you find the right path.
Dustin07
Legend
What specifically would you want to change/improve? I get into this trap all the time cause I do half a cut, then I switch to a strength cycle and put on 20lbs. then I do half a cut, then I go back to strength. this time I'm finally staying more committed on the cut and starting the reap the rewards as I can't keep my pants up without a belt lol
Don't cut yourself short when you're on fire!
That's a perfect way to put that
Hyde
Legend
If you intend to otherwise continue to cycle prohormones for enhancement purposes, then yes I believe doctor supervised HRT is superior (probably for health and definitely for longterm physique enhancement). You’ll probably want to look at a more aggressive remote clinic if you’re basically looking for bigger doses, but that might be a lot pricier than a local urologist so you could explore what they’d do for you first before looking at telemedicine clinics. And more modest optimal doses for wellness will be better for you to adjust to anyway. Remember, as doses go up there’s typically an inverse relationship to health impact.
As mentioned, the negative questions you are asking yourself aren’t crazy, but they are entirely useless & self-destructive. Buy & read this book - it’s a very easy read & will truly improve your life:
The Power of Optimism by Alan Loy McGinnis
As mentioned, the negative questions you are asking yourself aren’t crazy, but they are entirely useless & self-destructive. Buy & read this book - it’s a very easy read & will truly improve your life:
The Power of Optimism: Mcginnis, Alan Loy: 9780061040887: Amazon.com: Books
The Power of Optimism [Mcginnis, Alan Loy] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Power of Optimism
www.amazon.com
The Power of Optimism by Alan Loy McGinnis
akboom87
Well-known member
Great responses! Glad to see you back posting havent noticed you around for a bit
Segansational
Well-known member
Thanks brother. First off, it's good to see you back in here again!
Yes, I agree with the consistency and comparison comments. It is hard not to judge ourselves harshly when social media is in our faces, and when I compare myself to true competitive physique athletes at their best vs general population. But I am proud of my consistency and if nothing else that I'm still here when everyone else around me has fallen off.
And I do appreciate your comments!
What specifically would you want to change/improve? I get into this trap all the time cause I do half a cut, then I switch to a strength cycle and put on 20lbs. then I do half a cut, then I go back to strength. this time I'm finally staying more committed on the cut and starting the reap the rewards as I can't keep my pants up without a belt lol
Don't cut yourself short when you're on fire!
View attachment 259037
That's a perfect way to put that
OK, objectively (not to put myself down or seek praise):
I need bigger lats (width), thicker back. Greater quad sweep. I have very small calves, although I never think too much about them. Need a tighter midsection for sure (working on now), fuller chest. Left biceps peak needs to come up from the back.
Assuming I complete this cut well and get sub 13.5% BF, closer to 12%, then I plan to ramp up size again - lean - but would need to dial up another 20 lbs lean again to be semi-satisfied. But want to stay 14% - sub 15% here on out. For sure not let myself get back into the 16ish range.
Fair enough. I am by nature not an optimist or a glass half full type. I'd put myself squarely in the glass is at the middle camp, leaning slightly more towards the critical. So good reminder to reframe my thinking at times.