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SD 20mg pulse vs. 10mg Straight.

Size wise, i gained 2-3lbs, and lost it all on the off days. Doing one more 3dayr next week, but i dont think its working for mass for me like it did my buddy. So i might quit after that, and save the rest for a normal straight cycle later.
Only thing the pulse has been good for the first week was boosting my libido massivly
 
i don't understand this concept of going 3-4 days in a row of not dosing and expecting gains to stick.

dr d was pretty clear on what he thought was optimal dosing. like lucy said, on the off days ( every other day) theres still some androgens in your system. the break is to ease up on the liver and hpta a bit, then come back......and hit it again.

hopefully you don't say pulsing doesn't work because you couldnt gain on the scheme you used.
 
woodbear said:
Size wise, i gained 2-3lbs, and lost it all on the off days. Doing one more 3dayr next week, but i dont think its working for mass for me like it did my buddy. So i might quit after that, and save the rest for a normal straight cycle later.
Only thing the pulse has been good for the first week was boosting my libido massivly
Click to expand...

The king is always right
 
might try eod instead... but if that leads to regular nolva pct, I might just aswell do a full cycle... perhaps a 10mg one.
 
another friend of mine has just done 2 weeks of 4 on 3 off SD. he did not notice much the first week other than 2-3lbs, but by the end of his second week now, he was up over 10lbs!!! I have not seen him for 2 weeks, and it was very noticeable...
but 4 on 3 off is probably pushing the pulsing deal for minimum sides, but so far he noticed no sides at all...
he does not look sharper, so guessing a good deal of water weight.
 
jbryand101b said:
it's not rebound. it's from an increase in estrogen, and a decrease in prolactin.
Click to expand...

Jbry could you explain that in a little more detail for me. I'm just curious about it
 
soontobbeast said:
i don't understand this concept of going 3-4 days in a row of not dosing and expecting gains to stick.

dr d was pretty clear on what he thought was optimal dosing. like lucy said, on the off days ( every other day) theres still some androgens in your system. the break is to ease up on the liver and hpta a bit, then come back......and hit it again.

hopefully you don't say pulsing doesn't work because you couldnt gain on the scheme you used.
Click to expand...

Agreed.... Do it like dr. D prescribes. Don't bastardize it.
 
flightposite said:
Jbry could you explain that in a little more detail for me. I'm just curious about it
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estrogen and prolactin have an inverse relationship in the body, when one rises, the other falls.
 
interresting, considering during my nolva pct after havoc, libido was just as good, but after nolva, I got a estrogen spike, which lead to a bit pain in the nipples(have som small old gyno , not from aas) and a lower libido... I never crashed after epi, but crashed somewhat after coming off nolva.
Gradually as I got estrogen down, libido returned.
But went into overdrive during on and off SD use. 3 on 4 off SD has been symptom free, no sign of nipple pain or growth...

But anyway, if you read the enitre Dr D thread, you will see he condones the 3on 4 off as a viable option too.

But to be honest, I think the main reason my friend who tried this first , first week was eod, he noticed nothing, so he went into the 3 on 4 off... instead. But onlye used 10mg eod the first week, and 20mg 3on 4 off later... me thinks 10mg just was a to low dose, considering the whole thing about pulsing is high dosing 3 x a week...

Took 20 mg yesterday... was going todo 4 on 3 off this week, but think I might just do a EOD scheme instead.

well... I took 10mg this morning too, so it will be a 2on , one off, one on(or perhaps 2 more on) this week...
Then 3x eod next week.

btw. Side wise, Epi/havoc gave me backpumps, pain in the ribs, itchy nipples high bp... the 3 days on SD... gave me only a bp rise... no pains.
 
thanks for the research woodbear. its awesome you're willing to try all types of dosing schemes to provide everyone with good information.

so, so far you aren't seeing much in the way of sides with all the different dosing fluctuations?
 
well I`m blessed with two buddys who got sd along with me. And none had anything useful for pct... so trying out pulsing for less need of pct was the point. I only have enough nolva for me, which I `d only part with if one of them started to grow boobs..

None got much of sides, perhaps some lethargy and backpumps thar 3-4th day on... full cycle is probably alot worse.

What amazes me is that none managed to stay off the weekend booze. The friend who cut his second pulse short did so since he figured out he`d rather party each weekend than gaining a few more lbs of muscle...and pushing his liver to failure. hehe.. I agree with him, better to save it for later...
 
woodbear said:
well I`m blessed with two buddys who got sd along with me. And none had anything useful for pct... so trying out pulsing for less need of pct was the point. I only have enough nolva for me, which I `d only part with if one of them started to grow boobs..

None got much of sides, perhaps some lethargy and backpumps thar 3-4th day on... full cycle is probably alot worse.

What amazes me is that none managed to stay off the weekend booze. The friend who cut his second pulse short did so since he figured out he`d rather party each weekend than gaining a few more lbs of muscle...and pushing his liver to failure. hehe.. I agree with him, better to save it for later...
Click to expand...

Keep us updated man. Look forward to hearing about your results.
 
done 2 on 1 off, 1on, and another day on to try boosting the effect. less pulse.
Sticking to normal diet in order to try some recomp, rather than max gains. Added alot more calories on epi, and I gained mostly fat.
Seems to be gaining a bit of muscle and losing fat, but not anything to write home about yet. Nothing like the effects my other friends got.

Note, I am alot more advanced developed than them, so might be harder to gain as quick. Or I just respond crappy to anabolics. So far many otc regular supps like DAA have given better gains that these product, and then side free.

might just hit a full cycle the next 2 weeks, and do proper pct. but not judging until this week is over.

Any, some back aches noticed, libido still better than when I was a teen, and no lethargy.
Only support supp, milkthistle this time. Ther rest did not seem to do much.
Anyway, I do notice more change in my body from this pulse than I did from the straight epi cycle, so I`m not writing it off :-)
 
jbryand101b said:
estrogen and prolactin have an inverse relationship in the body, when one rises, the other falls.
Click to expand...

where is this information and is it credible? My research says quite the contrary. In fact, it is the rise in estrogen levels that causes prolactin secretion in pregnant women. There are other mechanisms that can cause prolactin increases but this is the only one that I know of that is directly proportional, not inversely, to each other.
 
fueledpassion said:
where is this information and is it credible? My research says quite the contrary. In fact, it is the rise in estrogen levels that causes prolactin secretion in pregnant women. There are other mechanisms that can cause prolactin increases but this is the only one that I know of that is directly proportional, not inversely, to each other.
Click to expand...

hmm, well

test showing prolactin increases with estrogen being given to hypogonadal women (not pregnant)
Invalid Link Removed

this is from a pregnant woman site:

Invalid Link Removed

and this is the about of the above articles author.

Invalid Link Removed

and here is a post from a med school students forum:

"I have it written down that increased estrogen/progesterone during pregnancy inhibit prolactin and promote breast growth, but FA says estrogens (OCPs, pregnancy) stimulate prolactin secretion.

What exactly is the relationship between these 2? like if you have low estrogen, do you get high or low prolactin?"
--------------------------------
"Estrogen promotes prolactin secretion but inhibits its action on the breast (FA 2011 pg 482)."
-------------------------
"Similarly progesterone also inhibits prolictin's action on the breast. Thus during pregnancy you get increased prolactin produced but only after giving birth (when the hormones start to decrease) does that prolactin actually allow lactation.

I have written in my first aid that its the decline of progesterone specifically that allows lactation. "
------------------------------------
"Pathologic correlate - hyperprolactinemic states (such as a pituitary tumor or typical antipsychotics) actually inhibit GnRH, LSH, and FSH release. Therefore it's a highly tested cause of amenorrhea "
--------------------------------------------------
"additional correlate - the high prolactin after giving birth is why a woman cannot get pregnant right away "
 
jbryand101b said:
hmm, well

test showing prolactin increases with estrogen being given to hypogonadal women (not pregnant)
Invalid Link Removed

this is from a pregnant woman site:

Invalid Link Removed

and this is the about of the above articles author.

Invalid Link Removed

and here is a post from a med school students forum:

"I have it written down that increased estrogen/progesterone during pregnancy inhibit prolactin and promote breast growth, but FA says estrogens (OCPs, pregnancy) stimulate prolactin secretion.

What exactly is the relationship between these 2? like if you have low estrogen, do you get high or low prolactin?"
--------------------------------
"Estrogen promotes prolactin secretion but inhibits its action on the breast (FA 2011 pg 482)."
-------------------------
"Similarly progesterone also inhibits prolictin's action on the breast. Thus during pregnancy you get increased prolactin produced but only after giving birth (when the hormones start to decrease) does that prolactin actually allow lactation.

I have written in my first aid that its the decline of progesterone specifically that allows lactation. "
------------------------------------
"Pathologic correlate - hyperprolactinemic states (such as a pituitary tumor or typical antipsychotics) actually inhibit GnRH, LSH, and FSH release. Therefore it's a highly tested cause of amenorrhea "
--------------------------------------------------
"additional correlate - the high prolactin after giving birth is why a woman cannot get pregnant right away "
Click to expand...

Got it. So basically estrogen exclusively blocks prolactin in breast tissue but not elsewhere, did I read that right?

We're also assuming that the relationship here also applies directly to men..it would be nice to see a study done in bodybuilding men to see the relationship and how it works for them as well. Since we don't get pregnant, not all of this info can be taken literally for us..
 
yea, but dont hold your breath waiting for that study to come out.

"prolactin, progestin, estrogen, and the effects on men from daily oral administration of supraphysiological dosages of anabolic steroids"

lol.
 
jbryand101b said:
yea, but dont hold your breath waiting for that study to come out.

"prolactin, progestin, estrogen, and the effects on men from daily oral administration of supraphysiological dosages of anabolic steroids"

lol.
Click to expand...

LOL, it would be legal though.
 
interesting info about the prolactin/estrogen relation - one question though, i thought in order for gyno to occur one would need both elevated prolactin AND estrogen.

i know i'm not crazy, i read it somewhere on here. possibly in the ''if you think you have gyno'' thread
 
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