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I'm just going with what the tub says for Raw, 0 calories.
 
Why what?
 
Woody said:
He's saying he's going off the container label which says 0 calories
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Exactly, just using them for muscle sparing in the morning.
 
lifted67 said:
Exactly, just using them for muscle sparing in the morning.
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BCAA's are not labeled because the FDA considers then so small to count
Each bcaa is 1g of protein they have about 6kcals per gram if you do Google and research it

That's why it's labeled 0
You don't need bcaa during the fast
Save for fasted training or doses between meals 6-8 hours apart as per Layne nortons MPS PowerPoint
 
The Solution said:
BCAA's are not labeled because the FDA considers then so small to count
Each bcaa is 1g of protein they have about 6kcals per gram if you do Google and research it

That's why it's labeled 0
You don't need bcaa during the fast
Save for fasted training or doses between meals 6-8 hours apart as per Layne nortons MPS PowerPoint
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toddmuelheim said:
Stick to the law and let the scientists do the sciencing
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Well....

N7. When the caloric value for a serving of a food is less than 5 calories, can the actual caloric value be declared?

Answer: The caloric value of a product containing less than 5 calories may be expressed as zero or to the nearest 5 calorie increment (i.e., zero or 5 depending on the level). Foods with less than 5 calories meet the definition of “calorie free” and any differences are dietarily insignificant. 21 CFR 101.9(c)(1)

Lawyered.
 
Woody said:
Well....

N7. When the caloric value for a serving of a food is less than 5 calories, can the actual caloric value be declared?

Answer: The caloric value of a product containing less than 5 calories may be expressed as zero or to the nearest 5 calorie increment (i.e., zero or 5 depending on the level). Foods with less than 5 calories meet the definition of “calorie free” and any differences are dietarily insignificant. 21 CFR 101.9(c)(1)

Lawyered.
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This all seems capricious and arbitrary. IRL though don't do leangains/IF and sip BCAAs during the designated fasting period. Also, leucine is closer to 6-7 cal/g. Scienced.

A+ for the lawyery response though
 
Wtf happened here?!?
 
So if you admit BCAA have calories and admit Leucine has 6kcal and the FDA requires labeling for anything with 5 or more calories, why do most BCAA, including Raw, list 0 calories?

Either they're not compliant with FDA or there's an exception I didn't come across/search for.

I'm not a mathematician but something isn't adding up.
 
Woody said:
So if you admit BCAA have calories and admit Leucine has 6kcal and the FDA requires labeling for anything with 5 or more calories, why do most BCAA, including Raw, list 0 calories?

Either they're not compliant with FDA or there's an exception I didn't come across/search for.

I'm not a mathematician but something isn't adding up.
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I would think 1Fast400 might be able to shed some light on this
 
Woody said:
So if you admit BCAA have calories and admit Leucine has 6kcal and the FDA requires labeling for anything with 5 or more calories, why do most BCAA, including Raw, list 0 calories?

Either they're not compliant with FDA or there's an exception I didn't come across/search for.

I'm not a mathematician but something isn't adding up.
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The FDA does not label them because they are so minimal. They still hold caloric value.
Do you ever read the side of like cereal boxes or other food items in the store? A lot of them don't add up
Look at a quest bar.. if you add up the macros sometimes they dont match the caloric value on the bar.
Hell When i got an ice cream shipment from new Orleans ice cream company I called the owner because this macros and calorie value were off by 50 kcals a serving. Literally.

"FDA regulations state that "Protein shall not be declared on labels of products that, other than ingredients added solely for technological reasons, contain only individual amino acids." But Total Calories can be determined based upon the Atwater factors (eg. 4-4-9 * macros) or by using "(D) Using data for specific food factors for particular foods or ingredients approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and provided in parts 172 or 184 of this chapter, or by other means, as appropriate; or (E) Using bomb calorimetry data subtracting 1.25 calories per gram protein to correct for incomplete digestibility, as described in USDA Handbook No. 74 (slightly revised 1973) p. 10, which is incorporated by reference in accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552(a) and 1 CFR part 51 (the availability of this incorporation by reference is given in paragraph (c)(1)(i)(A) of this section)."

I'm too lazy to look up the bomb calorimetry data for those amino acids, but contrary to what people like to believe, all amino acids do not share the same caloric value / heat of combustion when examined in isolation. Leucine and valine are perfect examples - leucine's heat of combustion is greater than valines because it has an extra CH2 group compared to valine and more energy is released when the extra bond is broken."

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"Anyway, leucine has about 6.5 calories per day, isoleucine has about 6.5 calories per gram and valine has about 5.9 calories per gram."
 
Aren't we saying tomato/tomatoe here cause coffee has some calories too but drinking black coffee isn't considered breaking a fast.
 
lifted67 said:
Aren't we saying tomato/tomatoe here cause coffee has some calories too but drinking black coffee isn't considered breaking a fast.
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Your comparing BCAA's and Protein to black coffee. Apples to Oranges. People think BCAA's are caloric free which they are not. There are more kcals per serving than a coffee. Especially those who intake 10-20g during a fasting phase which could be upward to 100kcals. Compared to a black coffee thats a large difference. Unless your a true american and put 10 sugars and 5 creamers in your coffee. Then yeah BCAA's would be far less.

and again right from the leangains guide like i have been saying all along. Only time you use BCAA's would be for fasted training. Not just to sip on for general purpose. Doing so does not help muscle protein synthesis:

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BCAA's may benefit you for fasted AM Training dosed pre-workout or as a bolus between meals 4-6 hours apart

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Sipping on them would just be like eating chicken every 5 minutes.. pretty worthless.
 
Maybe I should clarify then, wake up, mix black coffee and Xtend Raw in my travel mug take a brisk walk for about 20-30 mimutes before I have to leave for work around 5:30am next meal isn't till after gym about 7:30-8pm.
 
Also, Martin has updated this from his old format which he ran about 2-3 years ago when I followed it. He used to recommend BCAAs in the morning and then nothing else until post workout.
 
lifted67 said:
Also, Martin has updated this from his old format which he ran about 2-3 years ago when I followed it. He used to recommend BCAAs in the morning and then nothing else until post workout.
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This is for fasted training
Not for a walk. HIIT cardio would be liable for Bcaa usage due to how catabolic it would be
your not going to lose your gains going for a walk around the block . Nor is that close to weight training

You can do without the raw for a walk
Save it for fasted training

Your talking about a walk at 5:30 AM and eating about 12 + hours later at 7-8 PM
Quoting you here: " I have to leave for work around 5:30am next meal isn't till after gym about 7:30-8pm."

Save it for fasted training I.E. Waking up and right to lifting
 
lifted67 said:
Maybe I should clarify then, wake up, mix black coffee and Xtend Raw in my travel mug take a brisk walk for about 20-30 mimutes before I have to leave for work around 5:30am next meal isn't till after gym about 7:30-8pm.
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In the end you're going to do whatever you want anyway, and you'll probably see results no matter which direction you go. Physiologically though, bob and I are trying to give you the optimal path to take if you go the IF route. Good luck either way, and Scivation Xtend mango flavoring is mind blowing imo. I love it.
 
Well now I'm researching wether HMB would cause an insulin spike lol. It's not about "doing what I want" it's about using research and prior experience to try to get the best results.
 
lifted67 said:
Well now I'm researching wether HMB would cause an insulin spike lol. It's not about "doing what I want" it's about using research and prior experience to try to get the best results.
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for the cost of HMB it may not be worth your time. Spend the $$ on food.
Ergonine & Xtend Perform would be a killer peri-workout stack. I would suggest Ergo besides HMB
 
I actually got a bunch of HMB free so the cost isn't an issue.
 
I did limited legs today, have a stress fracture from soccer so I have to train super smart, tomorrow I'm going fishing then blowing up arms probably at Real
 
The Solution said:
Rather see you 100% then going 70% and it getting worse over time, or making it worse and prolonging the injury
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I couldn't skip squats again dude lol, went light weight and did pause reps. Foot is feeling good. The only time my aircast isn't on is driving, sleep, and gym.

Shaker had Xtend Perform in it and I felt strong AF, I think the Flexatril is keeping the rest of my foot strong as well. Hoping to be 100% by VERY early July.
 
Hey gang, just finished up my PCT thread up:Invalid Link Removed
So I'll be finishing up this one as well.

So today was the big Charity Benching Contest at my gym.
What a blast.

My pre workout cocktail was Pre Series Bulk by Transparent Labs and Modern Creatine by USPLabs, followed of course with the best damn intra on God's green earth, Xtend Perform by Scivation!!!

For the wife's pre; she got MaxReps plus some MTS Drop Factor fat burner and also a shaker full of Xtend Peform.

I got 3rd place in 225 for reps and in my Pound 4 Pound set I did 325 for 1.5 reps :) :P

Wife set a goal of 15 reps at 55#s on bench and got 35 when she actually took her turn.

It was a great time!

So to summarize I loved all the Scivation products I received and definitely found them a great tool to my supplement arsenal, will continue to finish my Flexatril bottle till the end as I'm hoping against hope maybe it will help speed up the healing of my stress fracture. I have some Xtend Raw, Xtend, and Xtend Perform all left over for the the bulks and cuts ahead so don't wait up cause this beast is on the hunt!!!
 

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Only was on andros, been riding the PCT train for a month + 1 day.
 
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