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SARMs

Danes said:
Honestly, i have no knowledge about GW :)
I bet San Marino will answer you on this one :)
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Have been busy in the last days.
Will add GW tomorrow to my cycle. Then I can tell you more about my cycle. But so far: I gained until now 6kg (13.227 lbs) weight - but also fat, don't have the illusion it is all muscle (it takes more time). Was my fault with the nutrition, was more mass gaining then recomp. have to change that for the next 4-5 weeks.
The GW will help me with that ;)
 
Hey San sorry to jump in this convo late but I've been observing it from the start but earlier danes mentioned that mk-677 does not desensitize, I thought it was shown that mk-677 desensitized fairly quickly actually
 
Ah. Yes, it will. I expained somewhere in this forum, why and how fast. But can't say where nearly every second post is about MK-677 :D
That's the reason why I'm using it for a short period of 50 days. But there where also studies about a longer intake. But they also showed, that the serum values decreased the longer the intake is. Therefore, if you want to have constant levels for a longer period of time (e.g. as an addition to a AAS cycle) the intake of exogenic HGH would be the better choice than the MK-677.
As said (somewhere in the AM forum :) ): the benefit of such a drug abuse over a short period of time (one to three monts) or a moderate period of time (three to four months) is much more higher than a intake of 12 months or more.
Of couse, the values like GH or IGF-1 were in the studies after 12 months intake more or less higher than on natural levels (depending of the age of the drug abuser). But the benefit curve is a logarithmic decrease.
And there are also financial and health aspects. Do you really want to take a experimental drug over a year? Can you afford that?
 
Joedoubledose said:
Hey San sorry to jump in this convo late but I've been observing it from the start but earlier danes mentioned that mk-677 does not desensitize, I thought it was shown that mk-677 desensitized fairly quickly actually
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Huh?
I think you need to read studies couole of times.
it actually shows like i said many times Higher HGH/igf1 levels after 12 months than 6 weeks of use.
That clearly show it is effective even after 5-6 month usage.

it would be LIE if I said MK677 is the strongest HGH/IGF1 "booster" BUT it would be LIE if saying it is not one of the best HGH/IGF1 boosters (now comparing sides,effects etc to other peptides etc).

I would say MK677 is actually the best GHRP. Now you need to think about the sides, effect, etc to other GHRP.

Why GH/IGF1 booster or real GH "should" be taken more than 3 months?
The effects from increased HGH/IFG1 will not do anything over the night. Its not like anabolic steroids. (Orals where they kick in fast)

Some changes will be noticed below 1 month such as better sleep, wellbring etc..but fatburning,lean muscle etc , it need couple of months to see some small changes. Why then stop?

Waste of money and as I said, if people know how HGH/IGF1 works they would understand that short cycled are just waste
 
It has the pre-clinical study completed and will soon pass into Phase I. It is particularly interesting as it also has a selective effect. It was compared along with testosterone propionate and another SARM called BMS-562929. While testosterone was injected, the two SARM were administered orally.
It has a stronger anabolic effect than testosterone propionate and has a lower androgenicity - not that surprising to here. What is particularly interesting to RAD140: it was tested as a single SARM in conjunction with testosterone.
It was shown that under RAD140 the muscle mass of rats and monkeys increased, the prostate compared to propionate less increased (here I have to say that it is not very clever from the study. It is not written whether enlarged prostate neither even if it has shrunk. However, it is at around 60% of RAD140 testosterone levels. Or I'm blind ...).

Have a look there: crap. can't upload this pic here haven't that much posts. Would have been a very interesting one.

Also used RAD140 + testosterone propionate. Interestingly, the anabolic effect has increased significantly reduces the androgenic effect compared to pure testosterone (see above link). To what extent this extremely exciting knowledge can be transferred to other SARM is not known, since these were not tested and it is different SARM.

[also can't here post a link? Why?]

But if you want to hear my honestly opinion: it's too early to play guinea pig and it is still a pre-clinical (!) substance.
 
sanmarino said:
Ah. Yes, it will. I expained somewhere in this forum, why and how fast. But can't say where nearly every second post is about MK-677 :D
That's the reason why I'm using it for a short period of 50 days. But there where also studies about a longer intake. But they also showed, that the serum values decreased the longer the intake is. Therefore, if you want to have constant levels for a longer period of time (e.g. as an addition to a AAS cycle) the intake of exogenic HGH would be the better choice than the MK-677.
As said (somewhere in the AM forum :) ): the benefit of such a drug abuse over a short period of time (one to three monts) or a moderate period of time (three to four months) is much more higher than a intake of 12 months or more.
Of couse, the values like GH or IGF-1 were in the studies after 12 months intake more or less higher than on natural levels (depending of the age of the drug abuser). But the benefit curve is a logarithmic decrease.
And there are also financial and health aspects. Do you really want to take a experimental drug over a year? Can you afford that?
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Can you PM me the studies that showed values decreased the longer the intake is?

Danes said:
Huh?
I think you need to read studies couole of times.
it actually shows like i said many times Higher HGH/igf1 levels after 12 months than 6 weeks of use.
That clearly show it is effective even after 5-6 month usage.

it would be LIE if I said MK677 is the strongest HGH/IGF1 "booster" BUT it would be LIE if saying it is not one of the best HGH/IGF1 boosters (now comparing sides,effects etc to other peptides etc).

I would say MK677 is actually the best GHRP. Now you need to think about the sides, effect, etc to other GHRP.

Why GH/IGF1 booster or real GH "should" be taken more than 3 months?
The effects from increased HGH/IFG1 will not do anything over the night. Its not like anabolic steroids. (Orals where they kick in fast)

Some changes will be noticed below 1 month such as better sleep, wellbring etc..but fatburning,lean muscle etc , it need couple of months to see some small changes. Why then stop?

Waste of money and as I said, if people know how HGH/IGF1 works they would understand that short cycled are just waste
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I agree.


,Third post down on this thread:
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Daytime troughs seem to be close to zero, suggesting no "bleed".

And according to datBtrue:

"The article was weak but it references a new study where elderly were given MK-677 for one year.

I'm tired of reading DatBtrue's tired refrain so lets take a look at the Nov. 4th study in Annals of Internal Medicine and see if there is anything cool in it.

Okay they gave them 25mgs of MK-677 per day.

The "them" were 65 healthy adults (men, women receiving hormone replacement therapy, and women not receiving hormone replacement therapy) ranging from 60 to 81 years of age.

The results were "daily administration of MK-677 significantly increased growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor I levels to those of healthy young adults without serious adverse effects..."

"There is something new and really cool in that study! It took six months to build up but in the end GH & IGF-1 were elevated and remained so for the remainder of the year of continued use. As expected one month after discontinuing levels declined.

There was no demonstrated desensitization in this study."
 
koi1214 said:
Can you PM me the studies that showed values decreased the longer the intake is?



I agree.


,Third post down on this thread:
Invalid Link Removed

Daytime troughs seem to be close to zero, suggesting no "bleed".

And according to datBtrue:

"The article was weak but it references a new study where elderly were given MK-677 for one year.

I'm tired of reading DatBtrue's tired refrain so lets take a look at the Nov. 4th study in Annals of Internal Medicine and see if there is anything cool in it.

Okay they gave them 25mgs of MK-677 per day.

The "them" were 65 healthy adults (men, women receiving hormone replacement therapy, and women not receiving hormone replacement therapy) ranging from 60 to 81 years of age.

The results were "daily administration of MK-677 significantly increased growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor I levels to those of healthy young adults without serious adverse effects..."

"There is something new and really cool in that study! It took six months to build up but in the end GH & IGF-1 were elevated and remained so for the remainder of the year of continued use. As expected one month after discontinuing levels declined.

There was no demonstrated desensitization in this study."
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The fantastic thing with MK677 is, bypassing somatostatin barrier.
Injecting HGH will increase somatostatin which is growth hormone nhibiting hormone (GHIH). Body is trying to make "balance". (Like increasing T Levels over the normal, and aromatase enzyme converting T to E to make "balance").
Mk677 is pretty smart drug taking care of not just GH bleeding etc.
I wrote this list before and I will paste again. All this info is from studies:

-2 months studies showing no insulin issues like other peptides
-no cortisol issues
-no GH bleeding
- no desensitization(almost nothing after 12 months)
"Results: A total of 416 patients completed treatment and assessments at 12 months. Administration of MK-677 25 mg resulted in a 60.1% increase in serum IGF-1 levels at 6 weeks and a 72.9% increase at 12 months"
This show more IGF1 after 12 months than 6 weeks
-Studies show nice increase of IGF1,GH and IGF-PB3 (binding protein which is needed to carry IGF1 to cell and activating receptor)
-bypass the somatostatin barrier by interacting directly with GH receptors, thus producing GH release (remember,somatostatin is GH inhibitor (GHIH).
-50% increase in REM sleep


Now, keep in mind, I am talking about 25mg dose of MK677 daily.
Higher doses are a different story.
If someone took 100mg and got GH bleeding etc, that is different story again
 
I was thinking, even if it decreases in effectiveness over time you still get the effects so it would still be better if ran longer; am I right or wrong?
 
koi1214 said:
datbtrue has some additional info.
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Yes true.

I like this one :

Keep in mind that this is simply a growth hormone secretagogue. This category includes all ghrelin-mimetics including the peptides GHRP-6, GHRP-1, GHRP-2, Hexarelin, Ipamorelin and the smaller molecular compounds such as MK-677.

They all act by binding to the GHS-R. So MK-677 doesn't get you anything more then say GHRP-6. Sure there is difference in effaciousness but that is easily equalized by adjusting doses.

Pick a GHRH (CJC-1295 or modified GRF(1-29) ) and add it to a GHS (a peptide or smaller molecule) and administer them together and you create a big GH pulse. Adjust the dose and you release all of the pituitary store.

I said that before, combining GHRP such as MK677 with a GHRH such as CJC would be even more stronger and getting even more out of GHRP.
GHRH makes more pulses and makes the pulses even stronger. So GH pulses from MK677 would be even stronger with CJC
 
CJNator said:
I was thinking, even if it decreases in effectiveness over time you still get the effects so it would still be better if ran longer; am I right or wrong?
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Seriously, 2 months on even real HGH is just a waste of money.
MK677 effect is not decreasing such as with other peptides actually. Even 24 month long study show its effective.
MK677 is improved GHRP where cortisol,insulin,GH bleeding, desensitization and other issues are minimized
 
I still know, that Danes and me agree in so many points - but not in the MK-677 case :D
I agree, exogenic HGH is a waste of money and of potential. As wrote: HGH is better for a longer period of time.
MK-677 will increase the values immediately. Like in the studies, the GH of my friend (I will also test my blood) was nearly three times over the range. So, the GH and the IGF-1 (not tested) are working "immediately" you won't need a loading time over serveral months. It is also the main effect of GHRP and GHRH: they are working immediately.
And as wrote in the PM to koi: of course you can take MK-677 over a very long period. But then better use HGH for a constant level. Also, I wrote about the benefit which will decrease.
And as you know Danes, I also agree with the powerful combination of a GHRP and GHRH.
Nice discussion by the way :thumbsup:
 
sanmarino said:
HGH is better for a longer period of time.
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I do agree but remember, GH bleeding, increasing Somatostatin, insulin and other issues will be the fact while using HGH.
Thats why peptides/ secretagogues are used to avoid or minimize those sides while getting benefits from increased GH and IGF1 Levels :) (instead of adding the body exogenous HGH , body find it better to boost the own HGH/igf1 production with those peptides/ secretagogues ).

MK677 is improved GHRP (less sides than lets say GHRP2/6 ).

like said many times, studies are showing more IGF1/GH levels after (more than 3 months) than with short cycle (6 weeks or less). So no,it will not be less potencial with 5-6 months of usage. :)
 
Danes said:
Seriously, 2 months on even real HGH is just a waste of money.
MK677 effect is not decreasing such as with other peptides actually. Even 24 month long study show its effective.
MK677 is improved GHRP where cortisol,insulin,GH bleeding, desensitization and other issues are minimized
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Oh ok, thanks. I'm pretty ingnorant when it comes to most RCs.
 
We drank a lot of RC as a kid !

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Been doing as much reading as possible on MK-677 and want to give it a go. Have been given a couple recommendations on research suppliers . I have also found three company's selling it capped, DNA Anabolics, Platinum Nutracuticals, and Chem-Tek Labs, but can't find many (or any) reviews. Wondering if they are legit, and wether to go capped or research.
 
Look at Xcels line of sarms, just do your research before taking them since you can't really dose them all how you like.

edit: They are all stacks.
 
muscle inc. said:
What are your guys recommendations for time off after running mk-677 for 2 or 3 months?
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Because it's still a research chemical and the products out there for sure not pharma grade I wouldn't exceed the abuse over two times a year. E.g. 3 months on, 3 months off, 3 months on, 3 months off...
 
Whoa that mk766 is interesting , color me extra extra interested, haiii danes, can u plz pm me the source of trusted supplier plzzz?
 
hamdysayed said:
Whoa that mk766 is interesting , color me extra extra interested, haiii danes, can u plz pm me the source of trusted supplier plzzz?
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I had a little trouble with water retention from this! Just saying
 
hamdysayed said:
That sound like nothing man, compared to the scary sh!t other SARMs and ph AAS do to u that sound like nothing .
how was ur run , recomp/fat loss/ lean gains if any?
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It only lasted about a week before I quit, I put on 10lbs of water, I could hardly move or breathe
 
Rocket3015 said:
I had a little trouble with water retention from this! Just saying
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Increasing GH (with GH or with peptides), water and sodium retention is actually pretty common. Water retention is due to kidneys retain more sodium as an example.
I suggest to drop sodium as much as possible to lower that issue
 
Danes said:
Increasing GH (with GH or with peptides), water and sodium retention is actually pretty common. Water retention is due to kidneys retain more sodium as an example.
I suggest to drop sodium as much as possible to lower that issue
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Already told him that via PM :D
 
I may take a break and give it a try again sometime ??
 
Rocket3015 said:
I may take a break and give it a try again sometime ??
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Yes, why not? It is "only" a GH-booster, and as long as you are healthy and your blood values are in range and you are ready to research experimental substances you can try it again.
MK-677 was also my first experience with GHRP/HGH increase and I also made mistakes with the nutrition. But at the first time you are always learning for an improved second time ;)
 
Danes & sanmario you guys are a great help here, thank you for what you do.
 
Turns out that the recommend provider of MK-677 across the pond is out of stock/on backorder.

Can anyone else PM me trusted vendors?

Thanks!
 
Can anybody answer... Will the affects of an anabolic, either ph or sarm, be augmented if stacking with MK-677? If so what would be the noticeable difference, muscle and weight gain?
 
If you stack a SARM with mk its gonna be like stacking an anabolic with hgh but like sanmarino said before in other posts it's only gonna e most beneficial for those in their 30's and 40's as the younger you are the better your hgh secretion is allready
 
Joedoubledose said:
If you stack a SARM with mk its gonna be like stacking an anabolic with hgh but like sanmarino said before in other posts it's only gonna e most beneficial for those in their 30's and 40's as the younger you are the better your hgh secretion is allready
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Yes, that's right. Nothing to add here. It will also work for the younger ones but the benefit is not that high - in comparison with someone who is 40 or older - and you better give me that money insted of wasting it :D
 
I've been curious about Mk-677, too. I thought about dosing it at half the standard dose to try to stretch a bottle out at 25mg per day. I like that it can have beneficial effects on sleep quality, as that's something I've struggled with.

I think it will probably be a couple of years yet before I dip my toes in those particular waters.
 
Almost finished with a 9 week lgd osta run. I won't know until bloods but basically no sides.
 
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