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Sarm S4

panther77 said:
How would s4 respond in a teen? If its a bad idea just let me know,i realize it pry is but figure it doesnt hurt to ask being as i know absolutely nothing about it, will hit up the search in a sec
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I would not recommend anyone who has not built natural muscle for @ 7 years to touch S4 or any other synthetic substance for that matter.

I sure HOPE no teenager ever gets his hands on real Sarms.

Sarms S-4 is for advance users IMO.
 
isoc said:
5 on 2 off was recommended by someone with a lot more knoweldge than I a while ago. I think this was to help minimize any suppression, I dont think that the 2 days is enough to greatly hinder the effectiveness, but with a new compound like this, each persons feedback is going to increase the knowledge base. there are people who dont do ed dosing of test base, winny, and still get good results, and those have no ester, may be a bad comparison. I also think it depends on goals with the product, if looking to bridge and minimize suppression then 5 on 2 off I think would be a good way to at least test it out, if not worried about suppression then ed dosing would work fine.
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I also wouldnt see a need to go 2 days off with this stuff...the active life is only 4 hours....i'm bridging it right now thats why only using a 50mg dose..wanted to make sure i had an idea about how it affected my natural levels before i run it any higher
 
i have some on reserve for the summer to go with some GHRP-6 or CJC maybe both.I know when i lift on S4 it makes me SORE as heck the next night and the day after that. No explosive results but if its as safe for your body as it seems at this point then i dont mind. Good mental boost and great pump. So i will have no problem or complaints at this point.
 
I would primarily be concerned with authenticity. Many 'reputable' UG Labs have been exposed lately, and, particularly with something like S4, authenticity is always an issue.
 
Well, as far as we know, there is only one supplier thus far for s4, or at the very least, only one supplier that anyone would use at this point. Its legit, his reputation demands that his product is what he says it is......
 
agreed on legitimacy, not only based on reputation, but results and sides show this to be different.
 
disgraziato said:
Well, as far as we know, there is only one supplier thus far for s4, or at the very least, only one supplier that anyone would use at this point. Its legit, his reputation demands that his product is what he says it is......
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isoc said:
agreed on legitimacy, not only based on reputation, but results and sides show this to be different.
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I'm aware it is only the one supplier, and, as I understand it, he is reputable; this being said, I have seen several very reputable UGs test for a myriad of inconsistencies including, but not limited to: under-dosing, impurities in the solvent, and entirely different compounds altogether [particularly when dealing with rare compounds such as Primo].
 
Got my S-4 yesterday I'll be starting it on Monday. I'll post in here weekly to let you guys know how well it's working. I'm running 4 weeks of tbol starting march 2nd which i've used before so we'll see how well s-4 stacks with a steroid.
 
Just thought id update that my experiment is in week 4 now and strength gains have really increased in this fourth week...didnt really see any sig strength gains in the previous 3 weeks but definitely this week..its "supposedly" comparable to test prop so they say so i guess takin 4 weeks for strength gains def does compare to test
 
Here is an abstract I yanked off Pub Med: TP stands or TEST Prop.

Pharmacodynamics of selective androgen receptor modulators.Yin D, Gao W, Kearbey JD, Xu H, Chung K, He Y, Marhefka CA, Veverka KA, Miller DD, Dalton JT.
Division of Pharmaceutics and Pharmaceutical Chemistry, College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio, USA.

The present study aimed to identify selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) with in vivo pharmacological activity. We examined the in vitro and in vivo pharmacological activity of four chiral, nonsteroidal SARMs synthesized in our laboratories. In the in vitro assays, these compounds demonstrated moderate to high androgen receptor (AR) binding affinity, with K(i) values ranging from 4 to 37 nM, and three of the compounds efficaciously stimulated AR-mediated reporter gene expression. The compounds were then administered subcutaneously to castrated rats to appraise their in vivo pharmacological activity. Androgenic activity was evaluated by the ability of these compounds to maintain the weights of prostate and seminal vesicle, whereas levator ani muscle weight was used as a measure of anabolic activity. The maximal response (E(max)) and dose for half-maximal effect (ED(50)) were determined for each compound and compared with that observed for testosterone propionate (TP). Compounds S-1 and S-4 demonstrated in vivo androgenic and anabolic activity, whereas compounds S-2 and S-3 did not. The activities of S-1 and S-4 were tissue-selective in that both compounds stimulated the anabolic organs more than the androgenic organs. These two compounds were less potent and efficacious than TP in androgenic activity, but their anabolic activity was similar to or greater than that of TP. Neither S-1 nor S-4 caused significant luteinizing hormone or follicle stimulating hormone suppression at doses near the ED(50) value. Thus, compounds S-1 and S-4 were identified as SARMs with potent and tissue-selective in vivo pharmacological activity, and represent the first members of a new class of SARMs with selective anabolic effects.

Hope this sheds some light.
 
If SARMS and AAS both bind to the AR, as we know, the one with the greater affinity will diminish the effect of taking both together. I would tend to consider the SARM as a useful bridge allowing increased growth potential during PCT between cycles.
 
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Not to say useless, just food for thought. Obviously multiple androgens in a stack are competing for AR's as well, with some binding more efficiently. However, unless you run AAS cycles and never come off, how much greater potential for growth to have a SARM providing continued benefits while recovering between cycles, AAS or PH/DS? We're talking 12 uninterrupted months per year of potential growth.
 
do you think sarms would be beneficial with Arachidonic acid? some guy on another forum was talkin bout how it and max out would be good but doesnt specify why... jw
 
From my experience S4 does not pile on mass like steroids at all. It will help maintain mass and strength gained on cycle. Anyone thinking this can replace a potent steroid is gonna be let down a little. But I definitely think it has its uses, pct or a bridge would be ideal. But, to think that you will continue to gain during an S4 bridge just like you gained while on a cycle of prop or even t-bol is pushing it.
 
A little on AA from a study in 2007. I does not seem conclusive.

J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2007; 4: 21.
Published online 2007 November 28. doi: 10.1186/1550-2783-4-21. PMCID: PMC2217562

Copyright © 2007 Roberts et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.
Effects of arachidonic acid supplementation on training adaptations in resistance-trained males

1.0 g·day-1 of AA administration over a 50 days period significantly increased dietary AA intake and appears to be well-tolerated and exerts no adverse side effects in young, resistance-trained males. These findings provide preliminary evidence that AA supplementation may have some benefit for individuals engaged in intense resistance-training. However, although some potentially beneficial trends were observed, AA supplementation had no statistically significant effects on strength, muscle mass, hormonal markers of anabolism/catabolism, or intracellular markers of muscle hypertrophy. Whether training status, dosage, supplement timing, length of supplementation, sample size, and/or the type of training may yield more positive results remains to be examined with additional research. Additionally, whether some athletes may respond better to AA supplementation than others should be explored.
 
Here is a good in depth read on SARMS: I am not allowed to link yet.

Ockham’s Razor and SelectiveAndrogen Receptor Modulators (SARMs): Are We Overlooking the Role of 5α-Reductase?

Wenqing Gao1 and James T. Dalton2, 3
1Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences, School of Pharmacy,
University at Buffalo SUNY, Buffalo, NY 14260; and
2Division of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy,
The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH 43210;
3 Vice-President of Preclinical Research and Development GTx, Inc.

BMS-564929 (a SARM) sounds like the whip but according to this study it suppresses serum levels of luteinizing hormone.
 
I agree with cord, though sarms may be useful on cycle, their biggest benefit will be between cycles. On cycle, there are many different things you can stack to produce greater results. Off cycle, there are many less options to maintaining gains. That is also the reason behind the 5 on 2 off protocal, there is still no 100% conclusion as to the amount of suppression sarms cause, though based on some of the research literature it appears there is some level, and based on user feedback it seems minimal. If you are off cycle and want to avoid suppression, this staggered approach will help to minimize it, and yes gains wont be maximized but you have to look at your goals. On another forum, guy compared 100 mgs dosage strength and hardness to 50 mgs of var. So that is pretty decent, but before everyone gets too excited, most people run var at 60-80 and as part of a stack. However, 50 mgs var versus some NO product and test booster, 50 mgs var hands down.
 
disgraziato said:
I def. agree w/ using it as a bridge...no point at all to run it w/ gear...its too mild and would be better spent during pct.
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Have you run it before? Did you run it with anabolics? how do you know it's too mild? Or is this all brotelligence? why run it in PCT? you do know that there is conflicting data saying that this is suppressive and that this isn't suppressive.

Not trying to pick on you but everyone seems to be putting there input in on these sarms yet only a few people have run them and there barley any research on them. I have yet to see anyone post anything about running this alongside an anabolic or any research about this.
 
joeymutz said:
Have you run it before? Did you run it with anabolics? how do you know it's too mild? Or is this all brotelligence? why run it in PCT? you do know that there is conflicting data saying that this is suppressive and that this isn't suppressive.

Not trying to pick on you but everyone seems to be putting there input in on these sarms yet only a few people have run them and there barley any research on them. I have yet to see anyone post anything about running this alongside an anabolic or any research about this.
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Ya. The scientists aren't even 100% sure on what is going on, with VERIFIED SARMS, yet you see all these conclusions being reached, on a compound we believe/hope is really S4..lol
 
I thnk it has weaken my immune system. The first time u sed it, after about a week i got very very sick. I had the runs, like 90% water/liquid, sore joints, tired, headache, couldnt eat. My Dr. somed it up to food poisoning. Went on the BRAT diet(Bananas - Rice - Apples - Toast) to help out and it worked in a day or so.

Yesterday, after being off S4 for 2 days, i began o ge the same symptoms. Only i was vomiting last night.
I highly doubt its from this, but i NEVER have gotten sic like this excpet when i was a child. So i think it weakens the immune system just like regular AAS.

I recerving the rest until summer to see if i get sic like this again, then ill prolly assume its a bacterial infection and have to get tested.
 
MentalTwitch said:
I thnk it has weaken my immune system. The first time u sed it, after about a week i got very very sick. I had the runs, like 90% water/liquid, sore joints, tired, headache, couldnt eat. My Dr. somed it up to food poisoning. Went on the BRAT diet(Bananas - Rice - Apples - Toast) to help out and it worked in a day or so.

Yesterday, after being off S4 for 2 days, i began o ge the same symptoms. Only i was vomiting last night.
I highly doubt its from this, but i NEVER have gotten sic like this excpet when i was a child. So i think it weakens the immune system just like regular AAS.

I recerving the rest until summer to see if i get sic like this again, then ill prolly assume its a bacterial infection and have to get tested.
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Thats really weird that you mention that because during my second week of s-4 I was really sick for two days throwin up and couldnt hardly eat anything..just thought i had food poisoning or something....could be a coincidence but just find that really odd..i hadn't been sick in about two years
 
This stuff tastes horrible!!!! I was even mixing it with juice. Found my NP caps and I put .5ml in 1 and it worked fine. so i will just fill the caps up and dose it that way.
 
youknoww said:
Thats really weird that you mention that because during my second week of s-4 I was really sick for two days throwin up and couldnt hardly eat anything..just thought i had food poisoning or something....could be a coincidence but just find that really odd..i hadn't been sick in about two years
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I didn't eat both time for a period of 30 hours. It was only Gatroade and water. I could hardly get food down if i even could gather an appetite.

It does taste bad. I just chase it.
 
joeymutz said:
Have you run it before? Did you run it with anabolics? how do you know it's too mild? Or is this all brotelligence? why run it in PCT? you do know that there is conflicting data saying that this is suppressive and that this isn't suppressive.

Not trying to pick on you but everyone seems to be putting there input in on these sarms yet only a few people have run them and there barley any research on them. I have yet to see anyone post anything about running this alongside an anabolic or any research about this.
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I've researched it and know bro's who've researched it, and it makes no sense to stack it w' aas, if you want to stack while on aas use other aas...it's most usefull, after real life human trial, after aas as pct....I know the inconclusive research about suppression, and the predominant study, btw, used castrated rats when they discovered suppression......IMO, there prolly is SOME suppression, but stacked with proper pct therapy, it is very helpful to maintain mindset, strenght and aggression in the gym instead of the post cycle blues.......Just trying to give some advice here bro, not tryin to hurt anyone-
 
disgraziato said:
I've researched it and know bro's who've researched it, and it makes no sense to stack it w' aas, if you want to stack while on aas use other aas...it's most usefull, after real life human trial, after aas as pct....I know the inconclusive research about suppression, and the predominant study, btw, used castrated rats when they discovered suppression......IMO, there prolly is SOME suppression, but stacked with proper pct therapy, it is very helpful to maintain mindset, strenght and aggression in the gym instead of the post cycle blues.......Just trying to give some advice here bro, not tryin to hurt anyone-
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Please provide any data that you may have to prove your point. Thanks
 
joeymutz said:
Please provide any data that you may have to prove your point. Thanks
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Here's an excerpt from one of the few papers(Endocrinology Vol. 145, No. 12 5417-5419)
The current report by Gao et al. (9) describes the tissue selectivity in intact male rats of two SARMs, designated S1 and S4, that behave as partial agonists in androgen-responsive tissues, such as prostate and seminal vesicles, but full agonists in anabolic tissues such as the levator ani muscle (12). Both S1 and S4 bind with high affinity to AR, with dissociation constant of the ligand inhibitor-receptor complex (Ki) values of 6.1 and 4.0 nM, respectively; which is similar to T, much higher than hydroxyflutamide (Ki = 25 nM), but lower than DHT (Ki = 0.2 nM). In immature castrated rats, S1 and S4 exhibited full AR agonist activity in levator ani muscle but only partial agonist activity in prostate and seminal vesicles. The relative rates of efficacy of S1 and S4 in prostate were 12 and 29%, respectively, compared with T propionate. As reported by Gao et al. (9) for intact male rats, S1 selectively decreased prostate weight with efficacy similar to that of the 5{alpha}-reductase inhibitor finasteride without affecting the levator ani muscle or altering the plasma levels of T, LH, or FSH. By contrast, hydroxyflutamide decreased both the prostate and levator ani muscle weights without selectivity and increased plasma hormone levels in a dose-dependent fashion. Neither S1 nor S4 affected 5{alpha}-reductase type I or II isozyme activities. These results show that S1 and S4 act as partial AR agonists with tissue-selective activity that suppresses androgen-dependent prostate growth without influencing the anabolic effects of T on weight of the levator ani muscle. Moreover, the maintenance of normal serum T levels and lack of effect of S1 and S4 on pituitary gonadotropin secretion further exemplify the tissue selectivity of their action.

So what we learn from this is that sarm activity has high anabolic affinity, did NOT affect T levels and had adrogenic activity only in the positive respect of preventing prostate enlargement etc which occurs with highly androgenic AAS compound use....
 
disgraziato said:
Here's an excerpt from one of the few papers(Endocrinology Vol. 145, No. 12 5417-5419)
The current report by Gao et al. (9) describes the tissue selectivity in intact male rats of two SARMs, designated S1 and S4, that behave as partial agonists in androgen-responsive tissues, such as prostate and seminal vesicles, but full agonists in anabolic tissues such as the levator ani muscle (12). Both S1 and S4 bind with high affinity to AR, with dissociation constant of the ligand inhibitor-receptor complex (Ki) values of 6.1 and 4.0 nM, respectively; which is similar to T, much higher than hydroxyflutamide (Ki = 25 nM), but lower than DHT (Ki = 0.2 nM). In immature castrated rats, S1 and S4 exhibited full AR agonist activity in levator ani muscle but only partial agonist activity in prostate and seminal vesicles. The relative rates of efficacy of S1 and S4 in prostate were 12 and 29%, respectively, compared with T propionate. As reported by Gao et al. (9) for intact male rats, S1 selectively decreased prostate weight with efficacy similar to that of the 5{alpha}-reductase inhibitor finasteride without affecting the levator ani muscle or altering the plasma levels of T, LH, or FSH. By contrast, hydroxyflutamide decreased both the prostate and levator ani muscle weights without selectivity and increased plasma hormone levels in a dose-dependent fashion. Neither S1 nor S4 affected 5{alpha}-reductase type I or II isozyme activities. These results show that S1 and S4 act as partial AR agonists with tissue-selective activity that suppresses androgen-dependent prostate growth without influencing the anabolic effects of T on weight of the levator ani muscle. Moreover, the maintenance of normal serum T levels and lack of effect of S1 and S4 on pituitary gonadotropin secretion further exemplify the tissue selectivity of their action.

So what we learn from this is that sarm activity has high anabolic affinity, did NOT affect T levels and had adrogenic activity only in the positive respect of preventing prostate enlargement etc which occurs with highly androgenic AAS compound use....
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This study was done on rats. What i'm asking for is human studies. I've read through dozens of articles on sarms such as s-1 and s-4. Basically you are not going to find human studies because there are none. I appreciate you trying to back up your claims but you cannot. Saying I believe it isn't a good idea because you are throwing your opinions out there not facts. I'm not running it in PCT because No one knows yet if it is suppressive in humans. I will try to find a study where i read it lowers LH levels.
 
The partial agonist activity of a selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM) in the prostate was demonstrated in orchidectomized rats. In the current study, we characterized the full agonist activity of S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide (a structurally related SARM referred to in other publications and hereafter as S-4) in skeletal muscle, bone, and pituitary of castrated male rats. Twelve weeks after castration, animals were treated with S-4 (3 or 10 mg/kg), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (3 mg/kg), or vehicle for 8 wk. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) restored soleus muscle mass and strength and levator ani muscle mass to that seen in intact animals. Similar changes were also observed in DHT-treated (3 mg/kg) animals. Compared with the anabolic effects observed in muscle, DHT (3 mg/kg) stimulated prostate and seminal vesicle weights moire than 2-fold greater than that observed in intact controls, whereas S-4 (3 mg/kg) returned these androgenic organs to only 16 and 17%, respectively, of the control levels. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) and DHT (3 mg/kg) restored castration-induced loss in lean body mass. Furthermore, S-4 treatment caused a significantly larger increase in total body bone mineral density than DHT. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) also demonstrated agonist activity in the pituitary and significantly decreased plasma LH and FSH levels in castrated animals in a dose-dependent manner. In summary, the strong anabolic effects of S-4 in skeletal muscle, bone, and pituitary were achieved with minimal pharmacologic effect in the prostate. The tissue-selective pharmacologic activity of SARMs provides obvious advantages over steroidal androgen therapy and demonstrates the promising therapeutic utility that this new class of drugs may hold.

This study is also done on rats to take it FWIW.

Here's the full article: Invalid Link Removed
 
joeymutz said:
The partial agonist activity of a selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM) in the prostate was demonstrated in orchidectomized rats. In the current study, we characterized the full agonist activity of S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide (a structurally related SARM referred to in other publications and hereafter as S-4) in skeletal muscle, bone, and pituitary of castrated male rats. Twelve weeks after castration, animals were treated with S-4 (3 or 10 mg/kg), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (3 mg/kg), or vehicle for 8 wk. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) restored soleus muscle mass and strength and levator ani muscle mass to that seen in intact animals. Similar changes were also observed in DHT-treated (3 mg/kg) animals. Compared with the anabolic effects observed in muscle, DHT (3 mg/kg) stimulated prostate and seminal vesicle weights moire than 2-fold greater than that observed in intact controls, whereas S-4 (3 mg/kg) returned these androgenic organs to only 16 and 17%, respectively, of the control levels. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) and DHT (3 mg/kg) restored castration-induced loss in lean body mass. Furthermore, S-4 treatment caused a significantly larger increase in total body bone mineral density than DHT. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) also demonstrated agonist activity in the pituitary and significantly decreased plasma LH and FSH levels in castrated animals in a dose-dependent manner. In summary, the strong anabolic effects of S-4 in skeletal muscle, bone, and pituitary were achieved with minimal pharmacologic effect in the prostate. The tissue-selective pharmacologic activity of SARMs provides obvious advantages over steroidal androgen therapy and demonstrates the promising therapeutic utility that this new class of drugs may hold.

This study is also done on rats to take it FWIW.

Here's the full article: Invalid Link Removed
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Newsflash, but WE are the human studies, if you haven't realized that yet with oh sooo many new substances....we play around with dosing etc, report our results to our fellow brothers and it evolves as such. Not saying being skeptical is a bad thing, I understand your wanting to be on the safe side.
 
joeymutz said:
The partial agonist activity of a selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM) in the prostate was demonstrated in orchidectomized rats. In the current study, we characterized the full agonist activity of S-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-N-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethyl-phenyl)-propionamide (a structurally related SARM referred to in other publications and hereafter as S-4) in skeletal muscle, bone, and pituitary of castrated male rats. Twelve weeks after castration, animals were treated with S-4 (3 or 10 mg/kg), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) (3 mg/kg), or vehicle for 8 wk. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) restored soleus muscle mass and strength and levator ani muscle mass to that seen in intact animals. Similar changes were also observed in DHT-treated (3 mg/kg) animals. Compared with the anabolic effects observed in muscle, DHT (3 mg/kg) stimulated prostate and seminal vesicle weights moire than 2-fold greater than that observed in intact controls, whereas S-4 (3 mg/kg) returned these androgenic organs to only 16 and 17%, respectively, of the control levels. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) and DHT (3 mg/kg) restored castration-induced loss in lean body mass. Furthermore, S-4 treatment caused a significantly larger increase in total body bone mineral density than DHT. S-4 (3 and 10 mg/kg) also demonstrated agonist activity in the pituitary and significantly decreased plasma LH and FSH levels in castrated animals in a dose-dependent manner. In summary, the strong anabolic effects of S-4 in skeletal muscle, bone, and pituitary were achieved with minimal pharmacologic effect in the prostate. The tissue-selective pharmacologic activity of SARMs provides obvious advantages over steroidal androgen therapy and demonstrates the promising therapeutic utility that this new class of drugs may hold.

This study is also done on rats to take it FWIW.

Here's the full article: Invalid Link Removed
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Again, this study uses castrated rats...the study I provided used intact rats....I still have my nuts so I'll favor my study:09:
 
Yesterday was my 5th day and i noticed a little increase in strength. I was able to lift 10 more lbs on military shoulder press with ease. Recovery is also faster. No sides as of yet.
 
joeymutz said:
Yesterday was my 5th day and i noticed a little increase in strength. I was able to lift 10 more lbs on military shoulder press with ease. Recovery is also faster. No sides as of yet.
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Awesome. Keep us updated.

What dosage are you running again?
 
week 1 results. I've noticed recovery is way quicker, strength is slightly up, sweating a lot more, Muscles feel fuller/harder, also i noticed some fat loss. I added in the tbol on sunday so it will take a week or 2 to kick in. All in all I'd say pretty good for the 1st week.

Side effects are just the vision. Not seeing a yellow tint but as far as my eyes adjusting from light to dark it takes a lot longer, i'd say 5x longer for my eyes to adjust.
 
joeymutz said:
week 1 results. I've noticed recovery is way quicker, strength is slightly up, sweating a lot more, Muscles feel fuller/harder, also i noticed some fat loss. I added in the tbol on sunday so it will take a week or 2 to kick in. All in all I'd say pretty good for the 1st week.

Side effects are just the vision. Not seeing a yellow tint but as far as my eyes adjusting from light to dark it takes a lot longer, i'd say 5x longer for my eyes to adjust.
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Nice. Keep us updated.

On a side note, we need someone to get some pre/post blood tests on this stuff.
 
Yesterday was the start of week 4. So far strength is up, pumps are ridiculous, fat loss is great,putting on a little bit of muscle, Libido is through the roof.. This stuff seems to be helping with my shin splins. The tbol should be really kicking in this week as this is the start of the 3rd week for tbol.

I haven't checked how much weight i have gained yet i won't until I'm off of everything.
Everything is going smooth. I have a bad right shoulder that i just recently started seeing a chiropractor for. It's slowly getting better, the down side is I can't go too heavy which sucks because it's hard to judge exactly how strong I'm getting.

My meals for the day look like this:

2 eggs, 1 slice cheese, 2 ounces ham, 6 uniliver tabs, 1 glass O.J.

Protein shake

5 oz turkey on a roll with cheese, lettuce, mayo

Protein shake

workout, then another shake

5oz steak, 6 uniliver tabs

I also snack on Nuts(no homo) throughout the day.

I'm not counting calories right now just trying to keep my diet somewhat clean to lean out some and put on a little bit of mass. So far so good.

Side effects: weird vision i see yellow tints and sometimes blue tints. Honestly this def helps when driving at night as i never get blinded if someone has there high beams on. It's annoying though how long it takes my vision to adjust when going from a dark room to a bright room. Besides the vision issues i have not seen any side effects. Balls are still full and hanging, libido is up, no acne, no agression.

If i have enough tbol I'll bump it to 50mg ed.
 
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