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RPN Havoc Log!

Awesome log so far! I'm currently on day 11 of my first Havoc cycle and was just looking to compare some experiences! I'm on day 11 of 20/30/30/30/40 but thinking of bumping to 40 way early because the gains don't seem to be nearly as much as yours.

Feedback?
 
brandyn312 said:
Awesome log so far! I'm currently on day 11 of my first Havoc cycle and was just looking to compare some experiences! I'm on day 11 of 20/30/30/30/40 but thinking of bumping to 40 way early because the gains don't seem to be nearly as much as yours. Feedback?
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I've seen a lot of people start at 20 a week. I chose to move up rapidly because I'm only doing one cycle. Mine went from 20/30/40/40/40/50 originally then I quickly decided that I wanted to move up and I went to 30/40/50/50/50/60. Higher doses did me well. My strength went up to the point that I had to wait for my tendons to catch up to avoid risk of injury (which is what I'm doing now).

I would say that you should bump up to 40. Epi is beyond kickass at higher doses. 50mg seems to be my sweet spot.

What side effects have you experienced?
 
Psikiguy said:
I've seen a lot of people start at 20 a week. I chose to move up rapidly because I'm only doing one cycle. Mine went from 20/30/40/40/40/50 originally then I quickly decided that I wanted to move up and I went to 30/40/50/50/50/60. Higher doses did me well. My strength went up to the point that I had to wait for my tendons to catch up to avoid risk of injury (which is what I'm doing now).

I would say that you should bump up to 40. Epi is beyond kickass at higher doses. 50mg seems to be my sweet spot.

What side effects have you experienced?
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I have literally been (negative) side effect free! I experienced some horrible headaches the first 3 days I believe just because I came off of preworkout and all caffeine. Other than that my libido has been way up.
Unfortunately I feel like I'm gaining more fat than muscle.. but I also might just be over-thinking.

Some people say be patient and to stick with the 30, but I don't want to waste my time.
 
It's day 19 now. I'm still making gains in muscle as well as fat. I've had to go lighter on bench to get my stabilization back, but my new gym has a great chest press machine to make up for some of the slack on bench.
I have wings. I never thought I would, but I do. They're getting really wide and I love it.
Forgot to weigh myself, I'm a little afraid of the number to be honest. I won't be able to cut down until after pct because I'll be trying to keep muscle gains. I probably should have done this after I cut some more fat, but it's going now and I'm continuing.

My personality has been messed up, I hear. Three people have noted my added aggression and lethargy. I've been told that I've been really withdrawn and loner-like since I started this cycle (although the ones telling me this don't know about the cycle). These side effects are more troublesome than any physical ones. All I want to do is work out and sleep. I've been both incredibly aggressive in the gym at times, and sluggish on others. It's really weird.

Has anyone else experienced this?
 
brandyn312 said:
I have literally been (negative) side effect free! I experienced some horrible headaches the first 3 days I believe just because I came off of preworkout and all caffeine. Other than that my libido has been way up. Unfortunately I feel like I'm gaining more fat than muscle.. but I also might just be over-thinking. Some people say be patient and to stick with the 30, but I don't want to waste my time.
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If you haven't experienced any side effects, then I say bump up to 40. Have you made muscle gains? Strength? Weight? Do you have a pct planned?
 
Psikiguy said:
If you haven't experienced any side effects, then I say bump up to 40. Have you made muscle gains? Strength? Weight? Do you have a pct planned?
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I think I'm going to just go with the bump. I have gained 5lbs in 11 day, but again I feel like it's about 50/50 in terms of fat and muscle. As far as strength numbers haven't skyrocketed but the weight definitely goes up more smoothly.

For PCT I have liquid Tamox on hand. I planned on 40/20/20/20/10.
 
Nice, I'm still trying to find some liquid nolva. I say just bump up. It'll do you great. I would say that a good portion of what I've gained is fat, however I've also had incredible muscle gains.

Why don't you start a log?
 
Psikiguy said:
Nice, I'm still trying to find some liquid nolva. I say just bump up. It'll do you great. I would say that a good portion of what I've gained is fat, however I've also had incredible muscle gains.

Why don't you start a log?
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I've got a reliable place to get it, mine got here in a week!

I've considered starting one, even before I started my cycle but I just feel like mine would be so uninteresting ._.
In other news I just took 40 mg for the first time! So we'll see how this goes.
 
Psikiguy said:
Nice, I'm still trying to find some liquid nolva. I say just bump up. It'll do you great. I would say that a good portion of what I've gained is fat, however I've also had incredible muscle gains.

Why don't you start a log?
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Check out the site sponsors.
 
Day 20: it's been almost three weeks. That's crazy. I'm just about half way through my cycle. I hit some speed bumps like the nosebleeds (they stopped by the way, as well as the headaches). But I feel fine now. Slight constant lethargy but nothing major at all. My weight is 278. 9 pounds gained in three weeks, and I have a feeling that most of it is muscle, although I have gained fat.

I feel full all the time, weird. I don't think it's a side effect but it's worth noting. It's hard for me to eat everything that I need to in order I gain more muscle. I'm limited to like 1800 calories a day now because I don't have much of an appetite. I've been trying to compensate by cutting out carbs entirely and replacing it with protein in the form of shakes and chicken, which is what I need more of.

Sides are low, gains are high. I'll update strength tomorrow morning, since it's a heavy day.
 
You need to eat more unless you want to cut more than bulk. I imagine your bmr is at least 2300 cal.
 
Psikiguy said:
Nice, I'm still trying to find some liquid nolva. I say just bump up. It'll do you great. I would say that a good portion of what I've gained is fat, however I've also had incredible muscle gains.

Why don't you start a log?
Click to expand...

Incase you happen to care I decided to start a log! It won't let me post the link though because I only have 5 posts..
 
Day 23: depression. It's bad guys, I might have to cut this cycle short. Not sure if three more weeks is too hot to handle or not.
 
You could try to throw in something like TR3ST, Stano or 4-DHEA to combat mental side effects.
 
Day 25: not sure why yesterday's update didn't post but I'll recap. I just said that I was feeling really thirsty, and REALLY lethargic.

But today's update: I worked out yesterday, my free weight stability is coming back. It's frustrating because I'm strong enough to lift weight that I can't yet stabilize, but I'm compensating by using machines after I use free weights.
Strength hasn't gone up, just size. I needed to go up a shirt size to fit my chest though. Which I love.
Fat is still coming on. I'm really puffy. I've always had a high bf%, so I guess this was bound to happen.
People have started to notice that I'm getting really big. One of the 3 real bodybuilders that I know actually asked me what was up, and I'm not sure if I'm ready to give up my secrets yet.

I'm now 283 pounds. 14 pounds up in just under four weeks. This cycle did me good. I have experienced moderately bad mental side effects, but they're manageable for now. The next two weeks are just a little while until I'm back to my normal self.

I still need to get a serm. I have a pct product but I think I'd rather be safe than sorry. I don't want to lose this size.

Pct recommendations are welcome, including nutrition, dosage, types of serms.

I've decided that this will be my only cycle, at least for the next five years. I don't want to mess myself up permanently, although this was much less intense than the media makes it out to be.
 
Nolvadex
 
Day 26;
I've been feeling better. Still CONSTANTLY thirsty, and my urine is dark yellow no matter how much water I drink. I started taking creatine again which I was going to hold back on, but I couldn't resist the temptation of knowing how I would look with it plus this size. I seriously hope I can keep this size. Or at least some of it.

Free weight stability is finally good enough for me to be able to bench press challenging weight. I'm a bit upset at how little my bench has increase. This has definitely been more of a size than strength experience for me.

Back pumps are finally here, and they suck. Deadlifts have to be late in the day or my day is shot. But other than that, sides are all low still. Lethargy has lessened.
I'm 184 pounds. That's 15 up from a month ago. I'm estimating that maybe 10 pounds of that is muscle. I think that a lot of this fat chubby look is the amount of water weight that I'm carrying.

Comments or questions, you know the drill.
 
Day 27: it's my day off, and I'm feeling weird. I'm so bloated that it actually hurts to eat. It's like my stomach is constantly stuffed with air, or a ton of food. I'm not even gassy, so it's weird. My goal in this was to gain as much as possible, and keep as much of it as possible when I got off. I can't eat enough calories to gain muscle as fast as I was before.

Not being able to squat is so irritating. My lower body hasn't benefited from this cycle at all. I can dead lift, but I can't do sumos so it's not really helping my quads too much. Extensions are it, and they give my quads weird shape.

My calves, which have always been great because I was morbidly obese for most of my life, are huge. I was going up stairs, and actually heard someone say "dude look at this guys calves" to his friend. Huge ego booster.

My arms are still little by comparison. My best areas are still best, and they make my bad areas look even worse. I don't even need huge arms. I'm at 17", and I want like 19". I don't need 22" pythons. I got to 17" naturally so I was expecting a much bigger difference.

My lethargy is being carried into the gym. It kind of feels like a chore. I'd never skip the gym. But I want to, and that's never happened before.

Anyways guys, 28 (4 week) update tomorrow and I'll sum up everything so far if you don't want to read all of this.
 
Just ordered some nolva called tamosolut. 10mg per ml, and 60ml bottle. I'm going to do 40mg for two weeks, and take the revolution pct + pure test that I bought when I got the havoc. Might have to cut the cycle at like 5 1/2 weeks, not sure if I have enough caps for a full six weeks because some are for some reason empty.
 
Aye 20/20/10/10 is fine
 
17" arms are pretty decent, although you can't trust any measurements until you're at a low bf%.

Most if not all of your problems are being caused by running a cycle at far too high a bf%, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
 
Mystere3 said:
17" arms are pretty decent, although you can't trust any measurements until you're at a low bf%. Most if not all of your problems are being caused by running a cycle at far too high a bf%, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
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yeah, I'm definitely not doing this again (if I ever do) until I'm under 15%. My arms are pretty lean. Most of my weight is carried in my midsection. I'd say that my arms would probably be 16" if I was lower bf%.
 
I'm ending week 4 and I've had major strength gains this week. I went from 201 to 211 in 4 weeks. I'm having difficulty eating and hitting my macros too. The morning is much better for me then night time. Have you tried adding taurine for the back pumps ?
 
luckylefty811 said:
I'm ending week 4 and I've had major strength gains this week. I went from 201 to 211 in 4 weeks. I'm having difficulty eating and hitting my macros too. The morning is much better for me then night time. Have you tried adding taurine for the back pumps ?
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I never really needed it. They're not that bad. I have a pretty high pain tolerance. I've gained 16 pounds, a LOT of size, and a little less strength than I was expecting but I'm not a power lifter so I'm not sweating it.

Eating is an issue. It's so hard. I'm honestly never hungry. How has your cycle been size wise?
 
You have to lay out your food so that you eat a lot of it at breakfast when your insulin sensitivity is highest and then space out small meals during the day. Test would help too.
 
Mystere3 said:
You have to lay out your food so that you eat a lot of it at breakfast when your insulin sensitivity is highest and then space out small meals during the day. Test would help too.
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the entirety of my social group is a mix of doctors and aspiring doctors, yet I still can't gain access to some test...

And I actually try that. The breakfast part, not the small meal part. Going off of my own medical knowledge, small placed out meals has no real scientific backing. But the insulin resistance seems to be working for me. I do a bit of an intermittent fast (not since I started havoc) where I stop eating at 6-7pm and eat a bunch of carbs and protein at 8am. I usually take in 3 or four other meals of fats and protein around the day. But lately, a protein shake has me full all day long. It's really irritating.
 
Small meals keep your insulin levels more stable. You can use a transdermal test base like dermacrine or an oral test base like tr3st or an equivalent like stano.
 
The small meals are also easier to eat.

I lay out my food similarly for bulk, recomp, or cut, just change the carbs and cals.

Core is like this:

Breakfast:

Core: 8 oz skim lactaid
3 scoop shake (on cut iso-100, otherwise xt elite extended release with 8 oz lactaid and 15g creatine)

Cut: banana
Recomp: 8 additional oz lactaid, 1 slice Ezekiel bread with pb
Bulk: 8 oz additional lactaid, 2 slices Ezekiel with pb

Snack 1: banana

Meal 2: on cut, chicken + veggies
Recomp: chicken, veggies, brown rice
Bulk: chicken, veggies, brown rice, 16 oz lactaid

Snack 2: banana

Meal 3: same as meal 1

Pre-workout:
Cut: 8 oz lactaid
Recomp: 8 oz lactaid plus banana
Bulk: 16 oz lactaid plus banana

Intra workout: 2 scoops vitargo s2 (1 on cut)

Post: 3 scoop shake as before

Meal 4: same as meal 2-3.
 
Late one month log: been 28 days exactly, and I'm great. Dead lifted today, hit a new bench PR ( which I hadn't done in 4 or 5 months). Before and afters are astonishing.

Mysteriously, I only have enough to run 40mg for 10 more days. Weird.

That's all for now.
 
Psikiguy said:
Late one month log: been 28 days exactly, and I'm great. Dead lifted today, hit a new bench PR ( which I hadn't done in 4 or 5 months). Before and afters are astonishing. Mysteriously, I only have enough to run 40mg for 10 more days. Weird. That's all for now.
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It's that last dowse at night you don't remember if you took it or not so you pop another one lol I do that all the time.
 
luckylefty811 said:
It's that last dowse at night you don't remember if you took it or not so you pop another one lol I do that all the time.
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I think that's what it is... When I was dosing 50mg I must have taken 60mg a few times.

Oh well, 5 1/2 weeks can't be that much different from 6.
 
Psikiguy said:
I think that's what it is... When I was dosing 50mg I must have taken 60mg a few times. Oh well, 5 1/2 weeks can't be that much different from 6.
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Yea I did that a few times lol back pumps were crazy at night lol.
 
Day 29: I'm glad that I only have 13 days of this left. I'm always a driven person. Hell, I'm patient and hard working enough to endure 4 hellish years of public college, and now med school, along with a part time job and the gym. However, this lethargic side effect is messing that up. All I can see myself doing anymore is working out and sleeping. Lethargy is a big issue if you're planning on starting havoc/epistane.

I don't have any real pain-causing side effects. Some times I have really minor back pumps. But it isn't anything awful, or unbearable. I'd say it's a 3/10 pain level.

I'm constantly thirsty. ALWAYS. I drink 1.5 gallons of water a day and it's never enough. My stomach could be, and often is, full of water yet I'll still feel parched. That's very annoying. My lips are always chapped like I'm dehydrated as well.

I started taking the revolution ptc with arimistane to try and lower what I can only assume are estrogen related side effects. I'll update on what that's like. I should be getting my nolva in soon. As soon as I get it, I'm bumping back up to 50 mg, riding out the last week and ending around 5.5 weeks. Then I'll start pct immediately. 20mg of nolva a day for four weeks, plus revolution pct, and pure test (DAA and arimistane) I'm going to continue taking my cycle support to restore my body a bit.

I'll keep updating every single day throughout the rest of this cycle, and my entire pct. Any comments or questions, I'm an open book!
 
Psikiguy said:
Day 29: I'm glad that I only have 13 days of this left. I'm always a driven person. Hell, I'm patient and hard working enough to endure 4 hellish years of public college, and now med school, along with a part time job and the gym. However, this lethargic side effect is messing that up. All I can see myself doing anymore is working out and sleeping. Lethargy is a big issue if you're planning on starting havoc/epistane.

I don't have any real pain-causing side effects. Some times I have really minor back pumps. But it isn't anything awful, or unbearable. I'd say it's a 3/10 pain level.

I'm constantly thirsty. ALWAYS. I drink 1.5 gallons of water a day and it's never enough. My stomach could be, and often is, full of water yet I'll still feel parched. That's very annoying. My lips are always chapped like I'm dehydrated as well.

I started taking the revolution ptc with arimistane to try and lower what I can only assume are estrogen related side effects. I'll update on what that's like. I should be getting my nolva in soon. As soon as I get it, I'm bumping back up to 50 mg, riding out the last week and ending around 5.5 weeks. Then I'll start pct immediately. 20mg of nolva a day for four weeks, plus revolution pct, and pure test (DAA and arimistane) I'm going to continue taking my cycle support to restore my body a bit.

I'll keep updating every single day throughout the rest of this cycle, and my entire pct. Any comments or questions, I'm an open book!
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keep drinking water have you tried taurine ? it helped me a lot
 
Most ppl don't get that much lethargy with epi. I already told you that your sides are much worse bc of bf%. That's why ppl don't recommend Anabolics for ppl over 15% bf. stano/trest or test would have helped but the latter two would likely have given you some gyno without an AI.

Psikiguy said:
Day 29: I'm glad that I only have 13 days of this left. I'm always a driven person. Hell, I'm patient and hard working enough to endure 4 hellish years of public college, and now med school, along with a part time job and the gym. However, this lethargic side effect is messing that up. All I can see myself doing anymore is working out and sleeping. Lethargy is a big issue if you're planning on starting havoc/epistane.

I don't have any real pain-causing side effects. Some times I have really minor back pumps. But it isn't anything awful, or unbearable. I'd say it's a 3/10 pain level.

I'm constantly thirsty. ALWAYS. I drink 1.5 gallons of water a day and it's never enough. My stomach could be, and often is, full of water yet I'll still feel parched. That's very annoying. My lips are always chapped like I'm dehydrated as well.

I started taking the revolution ptc with arimistane to try and lower what I can only assume are estrogen related side effects. I'll update on what that's like. I should be getting my nolva in soon. As soon as I get it, I'm bumping back up to 50 mg, riding out the last week and ending around 5.5 weeks. Then I'll start pct immediately. 20mg of nolva a day for four weeks, plus revolution pct, and pure test (DAA and arimistane) I'm going to continue taking my cycle support to restore my body a bit.

I'll keep updating every single day throughout the rest of this cycle, and my entire pct. Any comments or questions, I'm an open book!
Click to expand...
 
Mystere3 said:
Most ppl don't get that much lethargy with epi. I already told you that your sides are much worse bc of bf%. That's why ppl don't recommend Anabolics for ppl over 15% bf. stano/trest or test would have helped but the latter two would likely have given you some gyno without an AI.
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im running mine higher than him and i feel better and probably only drink 1 gallon of water. taurine is the only thing i think he hasnt tried.
 
Day 30:

I've been taking 40mg since I counted them a little lower than they should be. I started taking an AI called arimistane, and from what I can tell it's working. But not entirely in my favor. I'm more alert and less lethargic, but my aggression is almost out of control. The gym today is going to be incredible. Outside of the gym however, wanting to blow up on everyone is not a useful thing.

12 days left everyone. I can make it.

Gains: delts are popping out more, chest is hayuuuge. My back is still proportionately smaller but it's worlds away from what it was a month ago. Current me would ask January me if I even lifted. I'm 280lbs, so I think that the estrogen related weight gain is wearing off with the arimistane. I think I'm going to be very leaned out when I take the nolva. My worst fear is losing this size, so I'm definitely doing PCT right. Nolva, arimistane, bi daily workouts, calorie increase. For about a month and a half.

I got my first steroid accusation of this cycle by the way. My bodybuilder buddy said "you have to be on something". I don't in any way claim natty. But, I also don't discuss it. I did tell him though. He didn't care, he just wanted to know why I was getting so huge.

I'm glad that I've kept this log up daily, it'll be nice to see it longer down the line.

PCT PLAN: Nolva: 20/20/20/10/10
Arimistane:40/40/30/20/10
Does that sound good?
 
Back pumps. Too late to order taurine though. It'll get here 4 days before the cycle is over anyways. Just thought I'd note.
 
Psikiguy said:
Back pumps. Too late to order taurine though. It'll get here 4 days before the cycle is over anyways. Just thought I'd note.
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Damn that sucks I'm at 50mg a day and I'm gaining weight like crazy, lots of water bruh.
 
Day 31. 11 (maybe less) days left. I don't think I have enough left to last 11 days at 40mg. I do have enough for 7 at 50mg though. So it's looks like this will be a 38 day cycle instead of a 42 but that's no big deal.

I lifted heavy yesterday, so I'm sore. I wish I could have worked out legs on this cycle. They could be so much bigger if I could have. They're shrinking actually. Years of work down the drain because of my knee.

I feel like hell. I'm fat, lethargic, and bloated. But it works as advertised. It makes you a lot bigger, and it makes you stronger.

I'm starting nolva tomorrow. I'm going to go at 10mg until the end of the cycle, then go up to the 20mg for pct. I'm also going to continue using arimistane, and taking cycle support until it runs out, which will be at the end of pct roughly.

My pants are tight, and not around my thighs like I wish they still were. Serious cutting is necessary. I'm cutting down to 230 after this cycle. I just hope I don't lose all of the gains along the way.
 
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