RPN Havoc Log, 42 y/o male

Sounds like you are working hard. I would recommend the cissus while on cycle, and after actually. It has saved me on joints.
 
I'd also highly recommend adding Cissus as soon as you're able. I had the same joint issues on Epistane. I had bad joint pain in my shoulders/rotator cuffs from heavy bench, heavy press, and weighted dips. Added some Cissus and dropped out the dips for some light rotator cuff work for a couple of weeks and bang. Back to working order in 3-4 weeks. Great product.

Good luck on the rest of your cycle!
 
25 Jan

OK, you guys convinced me - will order some cissus and give it a go. Should I take a.m, p.m, before workout, after...?

Supps
protein/creatine/glucosamine/cycle support/1.5g taurine/20mg Havoc w/water 60 mins pre-workout
1-NO w/water 15 mins pre-workout
protein/1g taurine w/water post workout
evening protein/1g taurine w/water
bedtime protein/1g taurine w/orange juice

weight:190.5

Workout
Squats 155x5,180x5,205x5,250x3
Inc Press 125x5,140x5,160x5,185x5
Underhand Pulldown 130x5,150x5,170x5,195x3
Mil Press 100x5,110x5,120x5,135x3
Yates row 135x5,135x5,135x6
Dips 25lbs x Max (16), no weight x Max (17)
Cyber curl 95xmax (18)
10 minutes bag work
stretching

Either my headache went away on it's own, or the ibuprofen worked - I felt really good by the time I got to the gym. I was planning on subbing leg press instead of squats because of my back, but my back felt really good today; best t'si been in a while, so I decided to do squats.

Overall a very good workout, though I didn't feel the pump as much today as I'd been feeling. Got all weights and reps easily.

My left elbow was very sore in the pressing movements, but that's because I got kicked in it last night. Ditto for my right knee. The guy I was sparring an I went knee-to-knee. Ever done that? Man, that hurts.

My log is turning into me *****ing about all my aches and pains. I'm turning into an old person.

Had a great workout, still gaining, 6 doses left on cycle.
 
Jan 26
Off-day supps: Protein/Cycle Support/Post Cycle Support,4.5g Taurine
Lounged around

Jan 27
Off-day supps: Protein/Cycle Support/Post Cycle Support,4.5g Taurine
Lounged around

I usually run on the weekends, but haven't been recently because of the lower back issue.

Jan 18
Supps
protein/1.5g taurine w/orange juice in the a.m.
protein/creatine/glucosamine/cycle support/1.5g taurine/20mg Havoc w/water 60 mins pre-workout
1-NO w/water 15 mins pre-workout
protein/1.5g taurine w/water post workout
evening protein/1g taurine w/water
bedtime protein w/1% milk

weight:191.5

Workout
Squats 165x5,190x5,215x5,250x5
Inc Press 130x5,145x5,165x5,185x5
Close grip Pulldown 135x5,155x5,175x5,195x5
Mil Press 100x5,110x5,125x5,135x5
Upright row 135x8,135x8,135x8
Dips 25lbs x 15
Dip no weight x 15
Hammer Strength seated curl 65xmax 18
20 minutes bag work
stretching

Good workout, great pump. I feel as though I'm walking around pretty much half-pumped all the time already. Got all weights and reps easily.

Standard issue on the back. After feeling great during last Friday's workout, it was a factor today. Elbows and shoulder are definitely bothering me more than when I began.

Weight still going up, waist measurement staying the same. On Jan 7, my second workout on Havoc, I weight 187. Today I was 191.5, so up 4.5 pounds since the start through a course of 10 Havoc pulse doses. I've got 5 more to go on this cycle. That will end up being 15 workouts, pulse dosed at 30g (3 pills) each workout day. That will leave me another 45 pills for another cycle sometime in May/June.

I increased cals by 600 - 1000 over baseline (3K - 3.5K). I felt to go any higher was to risk some bodyfat as well and I didn't want that.

More than one person has commented on my looking 'bigger', so appearance wise it has made a noticeable difference.

Although I'm waiting for end of cycle for measurement and new pics, for grins I did a cold measurement of right upper flexed and got 15.75, up half an inch from where i started, chest up an inch as well. Feels good to gain some muscle after being stale since my injury in summer 06-
 
Jan 30

Supps throughout the day
Proteinx4
4.5g Taurine (3 x 1.5)
1 scoop Cycle Support
2 tabs Post Cycle Support

Muay Thai training tonight. My back was REALLY tight and Iv'e lost some flexibility in my hips. I'm liking the size gains I've gotten, but I'm definitely having more joint pain than pre-cycle: shoulders and elbows specifically. i still haven't ordered cissus - will do that soonest.
 
Yeah...

But I've had joint pain for years now, esp elbows, so I'll just make it part of my baseline supp routine and see if it helps....
 
30 Jan

Supps
protein/1.5g taurine w/orange juice in the a.m.
protein/creatine/glucosamine/cycle support/1.5g taurine/20mg Havoc w/water 60 mins pre-workout
1-NO w/water 15 mins pre-workout
protein/1.5g taurine/10g Havoc w/water post workout
evening protein/1.5g taurine w/water
bedtime protein w/1% milk

weight 192

Workout
Seated Leg Press 110,130,150,170,190x5
Leg Ext 90,90,90x5
Standing Leg Curl (1 leg @ a time) 50,50,50x10
Inc Press 130,145,165x5
Seated Row 135,150,170,190x5
Clean to Press (from thigh) 95,95,95x5
Superset BtB Dips with Preacher Curl 3 sets
10 mins bag work
stretching

I have to admit I was discouraged today. I decided to skip squats because my back was so tight last night. But the main problem was my elbows and right shoulder.

Elbows are starting to hurt now doing the incline press. I think I'm going to have to cut out the regular dips. BtB dips worked OK. My right shoulder bothered me very slight during the in press, but I couldn't even do Pec Dec or flys.

I'm determined to finish the cycle (4 doses to go), and am very pleased with my appearance and weight gain, but I guess these aching joints are part of being over 40 and having lifted so long.

Once I"m don I'll back off the weight to a 'deload' phase: lighted weight, m ore reps, 3 sets instead of 4.

If I can't get my elbows feeling better, I'll see a doc, although I've been down that road before.

"Doc, my elbows hurt"
"When do they hurt"
"When I lift weights"
"OK, well take 2 ibuprofen every 4 hours and don't lift for a month'

Yeah, right.....
 
Dude the reason your shoulders and elbows hurt is because you have no estrogen in your body right now. You need something in your joints to lubricate them, which cissus seems to do.

Most veteran steroid users mix wet compounds ( ones that convert to estrogen ) with dry compounds ( ones that dont ) to avoid this problem. Havoc is dry, but also an anti estrogen - so its a double whammy. Next time I suggest stacking it with Bold or Phera, unless you have pre-loaded with cissus for a few weeks.
 
Hey Frank

Thanks for the info - I appreciate it! I order my Cissus, will start on it soonest. For the second half of my Havoc bottle (45 pills), which I plan on doing sometime in April, I make sure to prep with the Cissus for joint support.
 
You might've alsp added in some DHEA.
 
I skimmed your log. Havoc is pretty fun to play with. In just 1 week at 4 per day I am getting big and very much stronger. I can curl 60lb dumbells with ease, did a 335 bench for 5 reps easily. Only problem is; I am experiencing the same problem as this gentleman describes. Namely; the severe joint pain. Also some severe lethargy, but I didn't cut up before this cycle.

I'm also taking creatine and gainers with this cycle. WTF Pumped, True Mass, but adding in Beta Alanine, Joint RX, Liver RX, Multivitamins, lots of Bananas.

I'm not a nutritionist or a doctor, and I don't know crap about pretty much you name it, but any help would be appreciated. I may have to pop Advil LiquiGels, but I share the same concerns as Webdango regarding toxing my liver out, as I feel toxed out on Havocs already. Sometimes I feel nauseated. I try to eat lots of Oatmeal, bran... I probably shouldn't have eaten that large All Meat Pizza last night.

My joints hurt all day though, I hear you on that. I have to use my power of insanity to propel me through. I can't imagine taking Muay Thai, it feels like I'm kicking my own ass just moving around.
 
I haven't been as strict on my diet while I've been on the Havoc, although I'm still probably 80% clean. As for the joint pain, I had some before starting the cycle, but it's gotten quite a bit worse.

Jan 31
2 hours Muay Thai. Took it easy during the pad work, but sparred at the end. Went 5 rounds with a guy who was really fast and less than half my age, but I had almost 60lbs on him. He was so quick with his strikes, I finally gave up trying to block them and starting walking through most of them to land my own. There wasn't much he could do about it and I was getting some good shots in. At the end of 5 rounds, however, I was pretty tired of getting kicked in the stomach...
 
Feb 1

Supps
a.m. protein/1.5g taurine/1 dose Cissus w/orange juice
protein/cycle support/creatine/glutamine/1.5g taurine/20g Havoc w/water 60 mins preworkout
1-NO w/water 15 mins pre-workout
protein/10g Havoc w/water after workout
afternoon protein/1 dose Cissus w/orange juice
before bed protein w/orange juice

weight: 191

workout
Leg Ext 90,110,130,150x10
Smith Machine Squats 135,135,135 x 10
Incline Press 115,115,115 x 10
Close Grip Pulldown 140,140,140 x 10
Clean to Press from thighs 95x10,95x8,95x6
Hammer Strength Preacher Curl 70,70,70x10
super-set with
Hammer Strength Behind the Back dip 110,110,110x10
Cable Crunches, 65 x 25
10 mins bag work
stretching

I started the Cissus this morning, with plans on doing one dose before I leave for work and 1 when I get home. I should also mention that last Sunday after running out of protein powder at home I picked up some all natural Soy protein. Did that on purpose since soy is supposed to help with estrogen. I've been taking 2-3 a day for a week, but I haven't noticed a difference in any joint pain.

Big change to my workout today. Instead of following my 4x5 plan and doing increasing weight on the big compound exercises, I use lighter weight, did 10 reps instead of 5: 2 seconds down, pause 1 sec, 2 seconds up. I also subbed some isolation stuff to make up for the lack of weight. This was a lot easier on my right hip, right shoulder and both elbows (the joints giving me problems), and had the added advantage of pumping me up like an inner tube. I'll probably stick to this sort of workout for the remainder of the cycle.
 
2 Feb, 3 Feb
Standard supps, no exercise.
Soy protein all weekend 2x day
Cissus 2x per day
Post Cycle Support 2 tab 2x day
Forgot my Cycle Support at work


4 Feb
am protein/cissus in orange juice
protein/creatine/glutamine/1.5g taurine/cycle support/20mg Havoc in water 45 mins pre-workout
1-NO 15 mins pre-workout
10mg Havoc/1.5g taurine after workout
afternoon protein/cissus/1.5g taurine in orange juice
bedtime protein in orange juice

weight: 193

workout
leg extensions 95,115,130,145 x 10
seated leg curl 100,105,110 x 10
inc press 115 x 10
machine chest press 110,110,110 x 10
underhand pulldown 140,160,160 x 10
cable front row 35,42,5,55 x 10
behind the back dip machine 110,110,110 x 10
superset with
hammer strength seated curl 65,65,65 x 10
very light back work, limited kicks 10 mins
stretching

Mentally I was down today due to the nagging pain in my elbows, right shoulder and right groin. Elbows so bad I couldn't incline; ended up using a machine to do presses. Tried to do lateral raises, but shoulder said no so I ended up doing cable rows. No go on the mil press either due to elbows.

In the end, I felt as though I had a good workout, but I did a lot of workarounds. I'll finish out this week (and cycle) with lighter weight, more reps, strict form and see what happens.
 
Feb 5
Skipped Muay Thai
Standard supps:
Protein, Cissus, 4.5g taurine, Cycle Support, Post Cycle Support

Feb 6
a.m. protein/cissus w/orange juice
protein/creatine/glutamine/taurine/20mg Havoc 60 mins pre-workout
1-no 15 mins pre workout
protein/10mg havoc/1.5g taurine post workout
afternoon protein
before bed protein

weight: 193

workout
squats 135,135,135 x 10
leg ext 90,90,90 x 10
hammer strength chest press 135,135,135 x 10
cg pull down 120 x 5, 140 x 5, 160 x 5, 160 x 10
mil press 85,85,85 x 10
hammer strength mil press 90 x 20
behind the back dips 110,110,110 x 10
superset with
hammer strength preacher curl 55,55,55 x 10

you can see I've moved away from the heavier compound movements with fewer reps to lighterwe ight, more rep, iso stuff. taking my back/elbows/shoulder out of the equation.

good energy, good workout, got a great pump from the super set.

1 more dose to go....
 
Feb 7
Standard supps
Muay Thai

Feb 8
am protein/cissus w/orange juice
protein/creatine/glutamine/cycle support/20mg Havoc/1.5g taurine 60 mins pre workout
1-NO 15 mins pre workout
20mg Havoc post workout
bedtime protein/cissus/1.5g taurine

weight: 193

workout
leg extension 90,110,130,150,180,200 x 10
hammer strength chest press 135,135,135,135 x 10
close grip pulldowns 140,140,160 x 10, 180 x 6
behind the back dips, bodyweight, 3x15
narrow grip front row (to chin) 40,50,60 x 10
superset with
wide grip front row (to chest) 40,50,60 x 10
dumbell hammer curls 35,35,35 x 10
10 mins bag work
stretching

Well, that was the last does of this cycle - 15 doses in all, about 5 weeks (3 workouts a week)

I felt pretty good today. Stuck to the lighter weight, more reps, more iso stuff. My back was still pretty tight by the end.

I will do after pictures and a full write up this weekend, so stay tuned!
 
Results/Cold Measurements:
weight gain: 6 lbs (187 - 193)

All measurements in inches, taken cold
R Upper
Before: 15 1/4
After: 16
+ 3/4

L Upper
Before: 15
After: 15 1/2
+ 1/2

R Forearm
Before: 12
After: 12 3/4
+ 3/4

L Forearm
Before: 11.5
After: 12
+ 1/2

Waist at navel
Before: 35
After: 34 3/4
- 1/4

Waist at hips
Before: 34 1/2
After: 34 1/4
- 1/4

Neck
Before: 15 1/2
After: 15 1/2
Same

Chest
Before: 43
After: 44 1/4
+ 1 1/4

R Thigh
Before: 22
After: 23
+ 1

L Thigh
Before: 22
After: 23
+ 1

R Calf
Before: 15
After: 15 1/4
+ 1/4

L Calf
Before: 14 3/4
After: 15
+ 1/4

As the tape tells, I had all over gains, even some in calves despite not doing anything for them. The last few workouts, I did 3 set of biceps/triceps as opposed to the single max rep set I did to begin with. I suspect had I been able to keep up the heavy weight on squats and incline press, I would have seen even a bit more.

Observations:
Elbow pain: My fault. I've had chronic elbow pain for years. There are certain exercises I shouldn't do, and weighted dips is one. On Havoc, I did weighted dips. As a result, my elbow pain became substantially worse. I did them because they're a great exercise, I hadn't done them in a long time, and at the time my elbow pain was minimal. Lesson? Havoc doesn't make it OK to do exercises you shouldn't be doing in the first place.

Back Pain: Same story here. After my back injury, a severe strain, in summer of 2006, I stayed away from squats completely for 6 months, and then did them only lightly, not getting past 225 for a set of 5 or 6. I get back pumps easily, always have, even when not on Havoc. An achy lower back has been my lot on life for 20+ years. It was more achy on Havoc, but I was doing more weight. For the last 4 workouts, I stopped the squats and did leg presses and extensions. My back remained achy and tight. Walking made it achy and tight. My take-away? If you are prone to back pumps or a tight lower back, it will be worse on Havoc. Taurine didn't seem to help.

Shoulder pain: My fault. I put too much weight on the pec dec and went too far back, twinging my shoulder. Nothing to do with havoc, except that I was feeling my oats and decided to try more weight, something I probably wouldn't have done had I not been on cycle.

The only other joint issue I had was my right inner hip. I don't specifically recall injuring it, and I'm not sure if it's my hip or groin pull, but who's to say I didn't strain it doing Muay Thai? Maybe Havoc related due to less flexibility, more likely related to a 42 year old refusing he's 42 and still working out like he's 20.

Muscle cramps/pumps/flexibility: I'm not particularly prone to cramps, but I was while on Havoc. You ever get those foot cramps where your toes pull down? I got a lot more of them on Havoc. I got more muscles cramping in general. Make of that what you will. While on Havoc I definitely loss flexibility, especially in my hips/groin/hamstrings. Stretching was more difficult because of my muscles tendency to pump and cramp more. It also longer to get warmed up. When I woke in the morning, my whole body felt tight and stiff.

The Boy 'n Berries: didn't notice any difference. No shrinkage, no impact on performance. Plenty of lead in the pencil when I felt like writing a letter.

Hair loss: my hair started thinning 3 or 4 years ago, and I keep it really short, so it's hard to tell. I don't think it had any impact in my case.

Appetite: didn't seem to make a difference. I didn't cram down the food; I stuck with about 500 over baseline.

Next:
Focus will be on trying to keep what I got and seeing if I can get back to where I was joint and flexibility wise before the havoc. I'll keep you up to date on that effort.

Most likely I will do another cycle in the April/may time frame. I'll be a little smarter about the exercises I do; probably do a split instead of all body 3x a week. We'll see.

Thanks to all who kept up on the blog and offered advice!

Check the pics:
Before images on the left.

It's a lot more apparent in person than in the pics, especially in the gym and when I was pumped, but I made some very good gains, especially in upper chest, shoulders, and upper arms. I'm a 42 year old, weight lifting Muay Thai fort building mother ****er and I will beat your young lion ass and take your woman! Hoo-ah!
 

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Web i'm glad to see you enjoyed havoc. Very nice work on the log and your remarkable success. I must say your back pose shows some definative muscle gains in your lats and deltoids. Very nice work buddy. As far as the joint issues i encourage you to continue to use cissus. I think in the long run you will be very impressed. Next cycle i also suggest trying our gut health while on cycle. It's amazing probiotic effects will decrease g.i. distress/bloating, enhance nutrient uptake in the g.i.tract, and strengthen the immune system. All very important while on cycle or not. :) Check out the gut health sticky in our forum and it should answer all your questions. Once again, great job my friend on your havoc success! :clap2::cheers:
 
Thanks for the props all.... I'm pleased with the results. I think I lost a little fat, though I'm still probably 10 pounds from a six pack (at least). Last Havoc dose was Friday; I am still continuing my other supps (protein,taurine,cycle support, 1-no, post cycle support), except for cutting out 1 protein supp (4 a day instead of 5).

I will continue the cycle support and post cycle support for 2 weeks.

I've moved from full body big compound lifts 3x a week to a split, but still doing 3x a week, alternating:

Day 1
Legs, back biceps

Day 2
chest, shoulders, triceps

Throwing in more iso work. We'll see how I look in a few weeks....
 
Your back seems to have gained a lot of thickness. Whereas before it was muscled, but kind of 2-dimensional, you can see the thickness apparent.

GREAT log, and great gains.
 
Update

Today is three weeks since I finished my cycle. The first two weeks after, I kept up my calories level and got as high as 197. Over the last week, I've cut back quit a bit, and now come in around 193, same as when I finished. No problems with libido or any other sides.

My hip flexibility has started coming back and my back is not so quick to tighten up. I've stuck with pretty much the same workout, sans squats, mainly because of my right groin pain, which - after 5 weeks - is finally starting to subside. I did some light Muay Thai sparring last night and felt good/loose for the first time in a while.

I took a full week off last week from everything and think that helped quite a bit to resolve my nagging last few pains (hips, groin, shoulder).

I'm going to focus on diet and try to cut up a bit. The tape measure shows me as still having 99% of what I came off Havoc with.

I'm tentatively planning next cycle to start around the middle of April, only this time I was thinking of doing a Propadrol/Hemadrol stack.

Any opinions on that?
 
Last edited:
Great job Bro!! This was a great read as I am turning 40 in March and am planning a Havoc cycle starting on my B-Day! I also have some joint pain due to a broken arm and surgery so I will preload cissus. I am also thinking of stacking with Propadrol so any opinions or advice will be welcomed form everyone.

I have all my other PCT supd ready and will post before and after pics.
 
Yes webdango, I also believe scooby doo ran a cycle of havoc. You made a good point in that there is know way scoop snacks can get you that yoked. I truly believe deep down that velma was also running a cycle of something. I'm not sure what it was, but she has some nasty raging sides from it. I'm sure others on this board also share our opinion on this controversial topic.
 
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