RPN Havoc (Epistane) Shut down bad!

Jay_b1985

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Hi all,

I posted a couple weeks back explaining that I did a 5 week RPN havoc (epistane) cycle 30/30/40/40/40 and had a total test blood test as soon as I come off when I started my PCT of Nolva 20/20/20/20 (pharma grade). My tests were extremely low (0.6 nmol) which is ridiculous!

Anyway, I didn't worry too much as I thought well I have nolva lets see what happens so 12 days into my PCT (6 days ago) I took another total test and it came out at 0.4 nmol which means its dropped for some bizarre reason!

Anyway I was worried so I sourced Clomid (again pharma grade) and started taking 50mg per day and I have been doing that for past 5 days along side my Nolva.

Question is, what is going on? and is Clomid and Nolva together for the next couple of weeks going to start to sort me out? I wasn't worried or anxious at first but now I am a little to be honest and actually quite scared! I am knowledgable and I know the risks but it was extremely shocking to see how shutdown I was.

I do have a doc appointment in 3 days which I am going to explain that I took a pro-hormone and play stupid a little bit to get full hormone bloodwork done that way I can see if Clomid is starting to work and whether or not my LH/FSH are actually responding.

Any input as always is appreciated!
 

GettinSwolen

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I could be wrong here but isnt it a possibility you run when running any hormonal supplement that you risk permanent shutdown? Surprised that the low doses of epi did that to you but then again I just read another thread on how a guy got gyno running fairly low does of osta. Either way the damage is done and all you can do now is do what you are doing, go to the doc, maybe take it further with an endo. Hope the best for you.
 

Jay_b1985

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Yeah it's always a risk and I'm very suprised too with it being RPN Havoc. I just hope to god I recover!!!
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Hi all,

I posted a couple weeks back explaining that I did a 5 week RPN havoc (epistane) cycle 30/30/40/40/40 and had a total test blood test as soon as I come off when I started my PCT of Nolva 20/20/20/20 (pharma grade). My tests were extremely low (0.6 nmol) which is ridiculous!

Anyway, I didn't worry too much as I thought well I have nolva lets see what happens so 12 days into my PCT (6 days ago) I took another total test and it came out at 0.4 nmol which means its dropped for some bizarre reason!

Anyway I was worried so I sourced Clomid (again pharma grade) and started taking 50mg per day and I have been doing that for past 5 days along side my Nolva.

Question is, what is going on? and is Clomid and Nolva together for the next couple of weeks going to start to sort me out? I wasn't worried or anxious at first but now I am a little to be honest and actually quite scared! I am knowledgable and I know the risks but it was extremely shocking to see how shutdown I was.

I do have a doc appointment in 3 days which I am going to explain that I took a pro-hormone and play stupid a little bit to get full hormone bloodwork done that way I can see if Clomid is starting to work and whether or not my LH/FSH are actually responding.

Any input as always is appreciated!
So you damaged your HPTA for 35 days and expect a huge recovery in 12 days? Cmon man.. I would not listen to the poster above me permanent shutdown is VERY unlikely especially for such a short cycle. STOP worrying. Continue PCT and avoid telling doc about a pro-hormone as it could cause insurance issues... Ride the wave and if after a full 6 week pct your numbers arent through the roof THEN id worry. But after 12 days to expect a dramatic increase is a little off. Clomid and nolva will definitely get you revving also start an ai. I always start an AI like EXEM or letrone 2 weeks into PCT to really get t up there.
 

GettinSwolen

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So you damaged your HPTA for 35 days and expect a huge recovery in 12 days? Cmon man.. I would not listen to the poster above me permanent shutdown is VERY unlikely especially for such a short cycle. STOP worrying. Continue PCT and avoid telling doc about a pro-hormone as it could cause insurance issues... Ride the wave and if after a full 6 week pct your numbers arent through the roof THEN id worry. But after 12 days to expect a dramatic increase is a little off. Clomid and nolva will definitely get you revving also start an ai. I always start an AI like EXEM or letrone 2 weeks into PCT to really get t up there.
Didnt say it was permanent shut down, just said it is a possibility when you run these type of substances.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Didnt say it was permanent shut down, just said it is a possibility when you run these type of substances.
I see, my apologies was not meant to attack i just wouldn't mention that as clearly the OP is having anxiety and worrying. Especially when something like that is extremely rare for mild cyclers. Wasn't harsh just trying to prevent anxiety attacks and let him know he'll be alright if he stops expecting instant gratification.
 

GettinSwolen

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I see, my apologies was not meant to attack i just wouldn't mention that as clearly the OP is having anxiety and worrying. Especially when something like that is extremely rare for mild cyclers. Wasn't harsh just trying to prevent anxiety attacks and let him know he'll be alright if he stops expecting instant gratification.
No worries, and I agree completely with your prior post, such a mild cycle it is rare for something like that to happen.
 

Jay_b1985

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So you damaged your HPTA for 35 days and expect a huge recovery in 12 days? Cmon man.. I would not listen to the poster above me permanent shutdown is VERY unlikely especially for such a short cycle. STOP worrying. Continue PCT and avoid telling doc about a pro-hormone as it could cause insurance issues... Ride the wave and if after a full 6 week pct your numbers arent through the roof THEN id worry. But after 12 days to expect a dramatic increase is a little off. Clomid and nolva will definitely get you revving also start an ai. I always start an AI like EXEM or letrone 2 weeks into PCT to really get t up there.
Thanks for your input. It just worried me when in 12 days it actually dropped 0.2 rather than risen! I'm gonna get more clomid to see me through another two weeks extended PCT. In the UK we don't have insurance as we have the NHS so I don't think there will be any issues. However I take your point on not jumping to expect a recovery that quick so I won't go to my docs in a few days but I will 4 weeks after a finish to say I have symptoms of low test and ask for blood work. Thanks again
 

Jay_b1985

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One thing to add to this is shouldn't I be feeling like crap with levels that low? If I'm honest, my mood is actually quite good, I'm still strong in the gym and I've only dropped 2lbs in nearly 3 weeks. My libido is shot but apart from that I don't feel too bad....
 

YoungBodyBuil

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One thing to add to this is shouldn't I be feeling like crap with levels that low? If I'm honest, my mood is actually quite good, I'm still strong in the gym and I've only dropped 2lbs in nearly 3 weeks. My libido is shot but apart from that I don't feel too bad....
That's the SERM's working, SERM's kill libido for most people as it's seen in the body as synthetic Oestrogen (estrogen to the HPTA) that's why i use an AI 2 weeks into PCT try and get a joint support, pcting that way ensures a good recover but harsh on joints.
 

Jay_b1985

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That's the SERM's working, SERM's kill libido for most people as it's seen in the body as synthetic Oestrogen (estrogen to the HPTA) that's why i use an AI 2 weeks into PCT try and get a joint support, pcting that way ensures a good recover but harsh on joints.
The SERMS or the fact I have test levels of a kitten lol! I'm not too bothered about libido aslong as I know I'm recovering.
 
GreekTheBrick

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At almost all my PCTs I feel strong about the first 10days, then I loose some strength for about a week and then strength gradually increases to the previous levels.

What Im saying is that probably recovery isnt linear and constant but has ups and downs before stability occurs. Give it at least a month and then get bloods. I believe you will be fine.

Smart move adding Clomid, I am a believer of its synergy with Nolva
 

Jay_b1985

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At almost all my PCTs I feel strong about the first 10days, then I loose some strength for about a week and then strength gradually increases to the previous levels.

What Im saying is that probably recovery isnt linear and constant but has ups and downs before stability occurs. Give it at least a month and then get bloods. I believe you will be fine.

Smart move adding Clomid, I am a believer of its synergy with Nolva
Yeah I've actually felt good the past week in the gym. Trained 4 days out of 5 with no real energy issues or slow recovery. I think I should have had clomid from day 1 of pct but I've learnt that now. I think I believe I'll be fine too I think I just had a moment of doubt and needed to ask for advice.
 
warbird01

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Not sure why you did another blood test 12 days in? I would just switch the SERM (like you did) then get another blood test 2 weeks after you finish your PCT.

I woulnd't be too alarmed. I know a good amount of people who have blasted and cruised for years and come off fine.
 

Jay_b1985

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So you damaged your HPTA for 35 days and expect a huge recovery in 12 days? Cmon man.. I would not listen to the poster above me permanent shutdown is VERY unlikely especially for such a short cycle. STOP worrying. Continue PCT and avoid telling doc about a pro-hormone as it could cause insurance issues... Ride the wave and if after a full 6 week pct your numbers arent through the roof THEN id worry. But after 12 days to expect a dramatic increase is a little off. Clomid and nolva will definitely get you revving also start an ai. I always start an AI like EXEM or letrone 2 weeks into PCT to really get t up there.
Hi mate quick one, I finished clomid 3 1/2 weeks ago. The day after I finished my last clomid tab, my sex drive came back with a bang and it's been awesome. I've got no lethargy, feel good, no complaints. In fact my sex drive was the best it's been since I was 18 12 years ago ha! However all of a sudden it seems to have dipped and it's not great. Any ideas why this is the case? Apart from the sex drive I feel great! I had bloods done yesterday at doc (didn't tell him about PH or clomid) and they'll be back in a few days. They'll only test for total test though In the UK. Any advice on why my sex drive has gone would be good :) thank you
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Hi mate quick one, I finished clomid 3 1/2 weeks ago. The day after I finished my last clomid tab, my sex drive came back with a bang and it's been awesome. I've got no lethargy, feel good, no complaints. In fact my sex drive was the best it's been since I was 18 12 years ago ha! However all of a sudden it seems to have dipped and it's not great. Any ideas why this is the case? Apart from the sex drive I feel great! I had bloods done yesterday at doc (didn't tell him about PH or clomid) and they'll be back in a few days. They'll only test for total test though In the UK. Any advice on why my sex drive has gone would be good :) thank you
Told you you'd recover my man! See we all worry at first because we feel like garbage but give it time and you'll be great! Also the libido as you said was higher than usual so now it dropped to what it normally is because you reached homeostasis.. So you kept gains, had a succesful PCT and have more energy than you did pre-cycle, what more could you ask for?
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Hi mate quick one, I finished clomid 3 1/2 weeks ago. The day after I finished my last clomid tab, my sex drive came back with a bang and it's been awesome. I've got no lethargy, feel good, no complaints. In fact my sex drive was the best it's been since I was 18 12 years ago ha! However all of a sudden it seems to have dipped and it's not great. Any ideas why this is the case? Apart from the sex drive I feel great! I had bloods done yesterday at doc (didn't tell him about PH or clomid) and they'll be back in a few days. They'll only test for total test though In the UK. Any advice on why my sex drive has gone would be good :) thank you
Sex drive dropping could be SHBG being raised by the SERMs so total t may be lower, and they could've elevated E2.. I'd get alphamax xt if you can.. Has stinging nettle root for free test and AI's and use that as sort of a PCT finisher to stabilize everything and you'll be great!
 

Jay_b1985

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Sex drive dropping could be SHBG being raised by the SERMs so total t may be lower, and they could've elevated E2.. I'd get alphamax xt if you can.. Has stinging nettle root for free test and AI's and use that as sort of a PCT finisher to stabilize everything and you'll be great!
Oh really? Hmm okay I'll have a look at that. My sex drive has dropped below normal as I don't feel like it at all. Have you tried that alpha max? I did lose some muscle unfortunately, nearly 5lbs but that was because I didn't start with clomid initially so whilst it took a couple weeks to really kick in I was dropping weight slowly however that has stabilised now which is good
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Oh really? Hmm okay I'll have a look at that. My sex drive has dropped below normal as I don't feel like it at all. Have you tried that alpha max? I did lose some muscle unfortunately, nearly 5lbs but that was because I didn't start with clomid initially so whilst it took a couple weeks to really kick in I was dropping weight slowly!
I've used alphamax xt many times and it's libido boost is amazing!
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Ahh okay cool, unfortunately we don't have it here in the UK :/
Damn see how important the PCT is had you had everything on hand at once it've gone way better, after you get your total t result back ill tell you where to go, keep me up to date man!
 

Jay_b1985

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Damn see how important the PCT is had you had everything on hand at once it've gone way better, after you get your total t result back ill tell you where to go, keep me up to date man!
Yeah clomid should have been enough though but made an error just using nolva to start! Well my baseline is 519, luckily my doctor had it on record few years back so that's what hopefully my total test will come back as (or near hopefully) I had a test booked in that I booked months ago as I knew I was going to be finished my cycl and that came back at 317 after a week of clomid so it was climbing well considering before clomid I was around 70! So hopefully it continued to climb. My high sex drive suggests it probably did!
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Yeah clomid should have been enough though but made an error just using nolva to start! Well my baseline is 519, luckily my doctor had it on record few years back so that's what hopefully my total test will come back as (or near hopefully) I had a test booked in that I booked months ago as I knew I was going to be finished my cycl and that came back at 317 after a week of clomid so it was climbing well considering before clomid I was around 70! So hopefully it continued to climb. My high sex drive suggests it probably did!
Clomid+Nolva will have test at 500 by day 5 in most cases, that's why i prefer BOTH serms for PCT.
 

Jay_b1985

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Clomid+Nolva will have test at 500 by day 5 in most cases, that's why i prefer BOTH serms for PCT.
Yeah well hopefully it's come back to baseline. I'll drop you a message anyway when it's back. Is there anything from underground labs or pharma which will raise my free test?
 
Gutterpump

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I've been telling people this for ages, epistane is not as mild as people make it out to be. It was the second worst oral I'd ever taken for shutdown. Pheraplex shut me down less in the past than epistane did, yet phera is the stronger compound. Epi is a weird one. I still love it though.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Screw "toxicity" in PCT continue cycle support into PCT and use both damn SERMs keep health and gains... Spend the little extra money..
 
Gutterpump

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Last time I used epistane, I had to use HCG just to counter the ball pain, and I was on TRT too. Stuff shuts down hard for some reason. Harder than test even.
 

Jay_b1985

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Damn see how important the PCT is had you had everything on hand at once it've gone way better, after you get your total t result back ill tell you where to go, keep me up to date man!
Hi mate just had my bloods back and total test is 726 which is 200 above baseline which is good. So where do I go now then to get my sex drive back?? Lol
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Or high estrogen, kinda doubt after using a serm his estrogen would be low
 

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For the past 3 days I've been taking DS Triazole, an OTC AI and I must admit something is happening as this morning I woke up really horny lol and my sex drive appears to have come back. I haven't had proper "morning wood" for the past week but this morning it was crazy. Perhaps Triazole is doing its job?
 

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Spoken too soon, after a few days of sex drive back the past 48 hours it's just dissapeared again. Is it normal for it to come and go for a while after PCT? I've also noticed what appears to be pretty watery semen...I think could be related??
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Spoken too soon, after a few days of sex drive back the past 48 hours it's just dissapeared again. Is it normal for it to come and go for a while after PCT? I've also noticed what appears to be pretty watery semen...I think could be related??
You got your total T checked and all is good there. Just wait it out see how it goes. We'd need more blood work to tell you whats up and you don't have it so all we can do is guess.. PCT isn't something that once you do it your bodies exactly how it was before instantly.. It's not how it works.
 

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You got your total T checked and all is good there. Just wait it out see how it goes. We'd need more blood work to tell you whats up and you don't have it so all we can do is guess.. PCT isn't something that once you do it your bodies exactly how it was before instantly.. It's not how it works.
Yeah I know that's not how it works, just trying to make sense of it. You're right, I've paid for private test for total, free, oestrogen and SHBG so that should give me a better idea. They should be back by next week
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Yeah I know that's not how it works, just trying to make sense of it. You're right, I've paid for private test for total, free, oestrogen and SHBG so that should give me a better idea. They should be back by next week
If you give me that information i can have you sorted out pretty easily, because if all of those are in check then it could be prolactin. Ill see when you give me more info.
 

Jay_b1985

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If you give me that information i can have you sorted out pretty easily, because if all of those are in check then it could be prolactin. Ill see when you give me more info.
Cool OK I'll drop you a message next week with the results. I'm sure on of those won't be in check, I have a feeling!
 

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....what I will probably do first though actually is just maybe wait it or for a couple weeks and see what happens then I will get bloods. I think I'm just acting very quickly on things which maybe isn't the best thing...I understand it might be a while before I'm fully recovered anyway
 
warbird01

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Spoken too soon, after a few days of sex drive back the past 48 hours it's just dissapeared again. Is it normal for it to come and go for a while after PCT? I've also noticed what appears to be pretty watery semen...I think could be related??
PCT is a wild ride. I wouldn't worry until a week or two after you PCT, if your libido isn't back by then.
 

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I finished my PCT over a month ago
I know this thread is old as **** but how did everything turn out for you? I just picked up a bottle of RPN Havoc, this thread was very informative. Thanks
 

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