Ridding of Pubertal Gyno

snowbird

New member
Is there anyway to reduce or rid of pubertal gyno other than surgery such as letro,clomid or any other serms or methods? I have the hardened lumps along with soft tissue around them for about 6 years or so now and am going to a surgery consult in the next week. I just wanted to see if anybody here has any cases of pubertal gyno specifically being treated without surgery. Thank you.
 
snowbird said:
Is there anyway to reduce or rid of pubertal gyno other than surgery such as letro,clomid or any other serms or methods? I have the hardened lumps along with soft tissue around them for about 6 years or so now and am going to a surgery consult in the next week. I just wanted to see if anybody here has any cases of pubertal gyno specifically being treated without surgery. Thank you.
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i am no expert but i will tell you what i've heard. Gyno from puberty is non-reversable where as gyno from AAS can be dealt with, sometimes with success. i has to do with the nature of the gyno developing, some one else will come along who is more knowledgable and add to this, i''m sure.
 
ehh....the only reason gyno from puberty may be hard to get rid of is because it has calcified....but its not for sure....run letrozole
 
yah i was curious too. hey mooch so some1 can just run some letro? how much a day and for how long?

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id taper up from .5 mgs to 1.5....then taper back down...you should be able to run for 4-6 weeks but it will dry you out like a mother...your not gonna like it....
 
Ask and ye shall recieve.

lennoxchi said:
i am no expert but i will tell you what i've heard. Gyno from puberty is non-reversable where as gyno from AAS can be dealt with, sometimes with success. i has to do with the nature of the gyno developing, some one else will come along who is more knowledgable and add to this, i''m sure.
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Tamox is cheap, and has been proven effective for both AAS and pubertal gyno.



Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.
Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

[email protected]

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifene in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia.

STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene).

RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

PMID: 15238910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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mooch2321 said:
letro is cheap too....would you rather stop estro from binding or get rid of it all together????
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Nolva is much more complex than that. Letro merely reduces estrogen, Nolva will actually actual reduce a mass of cells. Hence its use for breast cancer.

Letro is more useful for a person who doesnt really have gyno, but the begining symptoms of it. If you want to reduce estrogenic side effects letro/arimidex will work wonders. If you have full on gynecomastia, then you'll need much more than an anti-estrogen.
 
futurepilot said:
Nolva is much more complex than that. Letro merely reduces estrogen, Nolva will actually actual reduce a mass of cells. Hence its use for breast cancer.

Letro is more useful for a person who doesnt really have gyno, but the begining symptoms of it. If you want to reduce estrogenic side effects letro/arimidex will work wonders. If you have full on gynecomastia, then you'll need much more than an anti-estrogen.
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i disagree...ive seen letro work wonders....furthermore....just going on the study you posted raloxifene is much more effective at eradicating gyno than tamox is....why not use raloxifene? your kinda shooting your credibility in the foot by posting a study that shows what your recomending isnt the most effective product.....
 
futurepilot said:
Nolva is much more complex than that. Letro merely reduces estrogen, Nolva will actually actual reduce a mass of cells. Hence its use for breast cancer.

Letro is more useful for a person who doesnt really have gyno, but the begining symptoms of it. If you want to reduce estrogenic side effects letro/arimidex will work wonders. If you have full on gynecomastia, then you'll need much more than an anti-estrogen.
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Would running both prove beneficial? Or would that be to harsh on the side effects? I am trying to avoid surgery as much as possible as i plan on running my first cycle late this year. Are both letro and nolva attainable for research purposes?

Mooch what do you mean letro will dry you out? Like my joints or water retention?
 
snowbird said:
Would running both prove beneficial? Or would that be to harsh on the side effects? I am trying to avoid surgery as much as possible as i plan on running my first cycle late this year. Are both letro and nolva attainable for research purposes?

Mooch what do you mean letro will dry you out? Like my joints or water retention?
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stacking them would be effective....and yes low levels of estrogen will make your joints seem very dry....
 
hey, just wanna post my experience on this so far. Doing a 10 week + of Raloxifene to see how it goes. I'm doing this like this
60mg ralox ED + 50mg ATD ED week1
60mg ralox ED + 25mg ATD ED week2 to 4
60mg ralox ED + 25mg ATD EOD week 5
60mg ralox ED week 6 and beyond

Im currently at week 6 and little progress is noted, lumps did break down some and gotten smaller but still in place (less hard). Studies shows good improvement over a long period of time so I believe since I had it for a while like your friend its probably gonna take a while but I'm hanging on. I'm thinking about adding some Epistane in the mix for 4 weeks at 20mg to see if it could help the progress but am kinda worried about potential problems... Anyways hope this somewhat gives you an idea what to expect, I know there's some success stories around and that's why I tried it myself. Peace.
 
mooch2321 said:
i disagree...ive seen letro work wonders....furthermore....just going on the study you posted raloxifene is much more effective at eradicating gyno than tamox is....why not use raloxifene? your kinda shooting your credibility in the foot by posting a study that shows what your recomending isnt the most effective product.....
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Nolva is only 15% less effective, and Ralox costs at least 3x as much as Nolva, if you can find it. Therefore the logical response would be to discuss Nolva.
 
lennoxchi said:
i am no expert but i will tell you what i've heard. Gyno from puberty is non-reversable where as gyno from AAS can be dealt with, sometimes with success. i has to do with the nature of the gyno developing, some one else will come along who is more knowledgable and add to this, i''m sure.
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I've actually gotten rid of pubertal gyno by using Epidrol.
 
lennoxchi said:
gotten rid of, as on perminatly?
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Until ATD-rebound gave me a flare up recently...but that's still related to OTC hormonal stuff, so yes, the pubertal gyno was permanently removed. I'm working on getting rid of this current flare up with Havoc; I've got Epidrol on hand if that doesn't work.
 
hey Irish care to tell us what your epidrol cycle looked like? 20mg or 10mg for the cycle length? Might go with it and add it to ralox cycle.
 
WheyGood said:
If you are going to try letro, I'd recommend that you supplement with fish oil and Cissus to help avoid joint pain as the letro will basically eliminate all estrogen from your system. Plus, I'd cut way back on the weight training so as to keep the stress on your joints to a minimum. If your goal is to reduce (ideally eliminate) gyno w/o surgery then you won't want to focus on gaining muscle during this time.

Just keep your workouts at a level necessary for maintenance, whatever that may be for you.
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Im already cutting at the moment and only doing three days a week of lifting. I take in 10grams a day of fish oil. I willl add cissus and probably something like animal flex if i try this. Still debating it. If my insurance covers the surgery I might just go for it. Ill definitely make a log of the letro/raloxifene combo if i do so. Ill bump this thread next week after the surgery consultation when I decide what im doing.
 
futurepilot said:
Nolva is only 15% less effective, and Ralox costs at least 3x as much as Nolva, if you can find it. Therefore the logical response would be to discuss Nolva.
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logical huh....im looking at this as logically as i can....and your claims still dont match up with the study YOU posted....i see raloxifene being 45% better at reducing the size of the gyno in the people that it worked on...not sure where your getting your 15% from....do you have another study somewhere? again im just basing my conclusions on the information you posted...and logically i cant believe you....your statements and your information dont match...its just logical
 
Irish Cannon said:
20mg/30/30/30 is what did it for me. Noticed it improving around Week 3, and it was gone by the end of the cycle.
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thats suprising...most people ive seen have stayed under 20mgs for gyno reduction....but just showing the other side of the coin here....ive seen this sort of experiment go just as wrong as it went right for you....there is a lot of guys around am who made their gyno worse doing this....to me it seems like kind of a crap shoot....but its cool it worked out for you tho...
 
I think if it works, it's going to work regardless, and you may need to bump the dosage up to see it. I really don't think 10mg (20mg as opposed to 30mg) would be the determining factor in destroying gyno or creating it.

I had some ATD rebound issues recently, and had a gyno flare up on my right side. I tried using Havoc at the same dosing (20/30/30) and noticed the lump reduce in size a little in the third week, but then it stayed stagnant, and may have even returned a little...I switched over to Epidrol this morning at 40mg. If I notice a reduction, I'll keep it there, if I notice an increae in gyno, I'll drop it to 30mg...It worked once, so I hope it works twice.
 
mooch2321 said:
logical.... logically..... logically....logical
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Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene
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Therefore raloxifene is approximately 15% better.

a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%).
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Here is where you got your 45% greater incidence of 'significant reduction'. Meaning, in this study Ralox was shown to be 1.5:1 in rate of return, not efficacy.


Being snide and rhetorical doesnt work with me, asshole is my middle name.
 
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if you read to the bottom of this study you will see that the ai's were introduced medically to combat estro effects in breast cancer patients when tamoxifen was ineffective....this study is about anastrozole i know...but letro is a stronger ai...so therefore...logically(sorry...couldnt help it) it will be more effective....
 
i ran letro up to 1.5 and maybe had a slight reduction, but it seemed to come back-and tapered toremifene up/down as i tapered off the letro. any way to un-calcify the tissue if its been there for 5+ years? massage?
 
Well im bumping this thread since I went to my surgery consult this morning. Honestly was just a big waste of time. i went through bloodwork, three referrals and two reschedules. 8 months later I go in for them to tell me they dont have the equipment for the procedure and would be wait listed for a year or more.

On a brighter note my main care doctor was very willing to explore other avenues of ridding of the gyno such as the letrozol or tamoxifene and so on. I am beginning my research of these drugs and will bring him as many legitimate articles as i can on the subject.

With that said does anybody have any decent articles/studies done on ridding of gyno (preferably pubertal) through any means other than surgery? Thanks guys.
 
Just tried ralox ED at 60mg with 20mg Epistane for a week and a half and stopped because gyno got worst. Going PCT with some formestane and 120mg ralox hopefully it will go away. I think it could have worked if I had a topical AI because lump got much tender as it was breaking down but probably due to increase in receptor gyno developed around the lump some. So my input is Epi + ralox could work in theory because both of them block receptors in breast area but the increase in estrogen counter its effect. A topical AI could be the answer because you can tell estrogen builds up in the breast area as water retention is increase. Hope this can enlighten you on your futur choice. Peace.
 
mooch2321 said:
google....theres a million of them out there....check out pubmed too...
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Mooch, I'm going to forcefeed you Letro until you have double D's. In all seriousness, If one insists on using an AI then it might be prudent to run nolva with it to try to prevent the increase in estrogen sensitivity that can result from AI use.
 
mooch2321 said:
id taper up from .5 mgs to 1.5....then taper back down...you should be able to run for 4-6 weeks but it will dry you out like a mother...your not gonna like it....
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would you say that alot of these protocols that suggest tapering up to 2.5mg is overkill?
 
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