Recovery timeframe in PCT

[migseattle]

Hey guys,

I'm currently in PCT from an LGD 8-week cycle which suppressed me significantly (post-cycle bloods showed TT in the 90's). I was also running Dermacrine during the cycle for a mild test base so I felt fine throughout the cycle -- energy, alertness, libido were all OK.

However upon starting PCT (clomid 50/50/25/25 + nolva 20/20/10/10) the crash has been pretty bad. I'm finishing week 2 of PCT and experiencing significant lethargy, brain fog and absolutely zero libido or sexual function/desire. I guess that with no LGD or Dermacrine in my system my T has plummeted.

I'm curious as to how quickly the clomid and nolva are supposed to kick in to jumpstart your natural T production. Any insights? I'm getting bloods early next week, will report back.

Thanks guys

 

[07tacoma]

Hey guys,

I'm currently in PCT from an LGD 8-week cycle which suppressed me significantly (post-cycle bloods showed TT in the 90's). I was also running Dermacrine during the cycle for a mild test base so I felt fine throughout the cycle -- energy, alertness, libido were all OK.

However upon starting PCT (clomid 50/50/25/25 + nolva 20/20/10/10) the crash has been pretty bad. I'm finishing week 2 of PCT and experiencing significant lethargy, brain fog and absolutely zero libido or sexual function/desire. I guess that with no LGD or Dermacrine in my system my T has plummeted.

I'm curious as to how quickly the clomid and nolva are supposed to kick in to jumpstart your natural T production. Any insights? I'm getting bloods early next week, will report back.

Thanks guys

Do you have pharm grade serms or are they from a research company? I feel like after two weeks you should be feeling better

 

[fro60ol]

I would add a natural test booster. I like super pct from Olympus lab (not a rep for them at all) But I agree with 07tacoma

 

[migseattle]

Do you have pharm grade serms or are they from a research company? I feel like after two weeks you should be feeling better

I would have hoped, too Today hasn't been as bad (lethargy-wise) as the last couple of days... so maybe I'm trending in the right direction.
My serms are research chems from RUI.

 

[07tacoma]

Don't no much about R** but I do no you have to be cautious of where your getting research chems, always the possibility of low dosed or bunk products.

 

[Colbicide]

I would add a natural test booster. I like super pct from Olympus lab (not a rep for them at all) But I agree with 07tacoma

This. Ran clomid with EVLTEST and everything bounced back nicely.

 

[warbird01]

Week 2 is the worst of PCT IMO. I say tough it out, PCT is never easy. If you are still feeling down in week 4 then maybe you have a problem.

 

[migseattle]

Week 2 is the worst of PCT IMO. I say tough it out, PCT is never easy. If you are still feeling down in week 4 then maybe you have a problem.

I appreciate the insight! This is my first sarms cycle and PCT so I'm learning. Week 2 is over today. Would you recommend that I stick to my original plan and lower the clomid and nolva doses starting tomorrow? I'm getting bloods done on Tuesday to see where things are at, just out of curiosity. I hope that things start to improve this week.

 

[warbird01]

I appreciate the insight! This is my first sarms cycle and PCT so I'm learning. Week 2 is over today. Would you recommend that I stick to my original plan and lower the clomid and nolva doses starting tomorrow? I'm getting bloods done on Tuesday to see where things are at, just out of curiosity. I hope that things start to improve this week.

Yeah I would continue with the original plan. Let us know how your bloods go.

 

[migseattle]

Yeah I would continue with the original plan. Let us know how your bloods go.

OK guys here's an update with mid-PCT bloods. Still 2-3 more weeks of PCT to go.
As you can see, testosterone is coming back nicely thanks to the LH and FSH being full steam ahead, way higher than pre-cycle -- the work of the SERMS. Having said that, my libido is still missing in action, although the lethargy has mostly subsided.
Also my E has raised, still in clinical range but at the very top of it. Should I start Exemestane which I have on hand?
Finally - cholesterol is still kind of messed up. While my HDL is recovering, my LDL has shot way up.

Thoughts/suggestions welcome!

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)	Mid-PCT (10 wks)
Total test	516	98	70	455
LH	2.4	1.5	0.9	6.3
FSH	2.7	1.5	1.1	3.9
Estradiol	22.8	26.2	28.4	42.3
Total Cholesterol	156	152	134	178
HDL	44	28	17	34
LDL	99	105	100	131

 

[7eman7]

Is lgd really this suppressive? Sounds to me like you got a prohormone instead of a sarm man...

 

[migseattle]

Is lgd really this suppressive? Sounds to me like you got a prohormone instead of a sarm man...

LGD is considered one of the most suppressive SARMs -- having said that, this being my first run (never did PHs or AAS) I'm not sure if the levels of suppression that I experienced are typical. It'd be good for others to chime in if they have data.
The RC company I bought the LGD from is well regarded and considered legit as far as I know so I trust that the bottle contained LGD. I guess we'll never know for certain!

 

[vujade]

Damn your cholesterol went up during PCT worse then when it was on cycle....?

 

[vujade]

Is lgd really this suppressive? Sounds to me like you got a prohormone instead of a sarm man...

yes, Osta and LGD are both really suppressive. The the bounce back should not be that hard to do.

 

[migseattle]

Damn your cholesterol went up during PCT worse then when it was on cycle....?

HDL is bouncing back to a better level, but yeah, LDL shot up. I'll see where it is in a month or so with my post-PCT bloods but I expect that better levels of HDL will take care of the LDL (that's what HDL does, no? it better get to work, ha) Total cholesterol is still well within range so I'm not too concerned plus I'm adding some cardio to my workouts.

 

[vujade]

HDL is bouncing back to a better level, but yeah, LDL shot up. I'll see where it is in a month or so with my post-PCT bloods but I expect that better levels of HDL will take care of the LDL (that's what HDL does, no? it better get to work, ha) Total cholesterol is still well within range so I'm not too concerned plus I'm adding some cardio to my workouts.

you taking any support supps for cholesterol...?

Red Yeast Rice, Omega 3's, Co Q10, Niacin, etc...

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

You're recovering very well man! My gues is by week 4 your t will be around 800 and yes i ALWAYS use aromasin in last 2 weeks of pct extended 4 weeks past this'll push your t even higher and make sure the t numbers stick rather than estrogen suppressing your t again when you cease the SERMs

 

[migseattle]

You're recovering very well man! My gues is by week 4 your t will be around 800 and yes i ALWAYS use aromasin in last 2 weeks of pct extended 4 weeks past this'll push your t even higher and make sure the t numbers stick rather than estrogen suppressing your t again when you cease the SERMs

Thanks! I do feel much better already, libido included What dose of aromasin do you recommend? I'm doing 12.5mg EOD now, don't want to overshoot.

 

[migseattle]

You're recovering very well man! My gues is by week 4 your t will be around 800 and yes i ALWAYS use aromasin in last 2 weeks of pct extended 4 weeks past this'll push your t even higher and make sure the t numbers stick rather than estrogen suppressing your t again when you cease the SERMs

Alright gang, here's an update. Finally got my bloods back for the 4-week mark of my PCT. Overall and by the numbers, I'm happy with my recovery. Test is very high at 931 (way higher than pre-cycle levels) and I fully realize it will come down as I stop the SERMs... hope it levels out at a good value. Cholesterol is back in great shape -- pre-cycle values.

Two concerns. 1) Despite the high test, my libido is not back. I have no interest in sex nor I get good erections. 2) My estrogen is pretty high at 39, which I'm wondering if that could be the cause of the lack of libido. Currently I'm taking 12.5 mg EOD of Aromasin.

Should I up Aromasin maybe to 12.5 ED, or would that be too much? I'd like to get it down to the low 20's which is where it was pre-cycle.

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)	Mid-PCT (10 wks)	Post-PCT (12 wks)
Total test	516	98	70	455	931
LH	2.4	1.5	0.9	6.3	9.2
FSH	2.7	1.5	1.1	3.9	5.0
Estradiol	22.8	26.2	28.4	42.3	39.0
Total Cholesterol	156	152	134	178	157
HDL	44	28	17	34	47
LDL	99	105	100	131	98

 

[warbird01]

Alright gang, here's an update. Finally got my bloods back for the 4-week mark of my PCT. Overall and by the numbers, I'm happy with my recovery. Test is very high at 931 (way higher than pre-cycle levels) and I fully realize it will come down as I stop the SERMs... hope it levels out at a good value. Cholesterol is back in great shape -- pre-cycle values.

Two concerns. 1) Despite the high test, my libido is not back. I have no interest in sex nor I get good erections. 2) My estrogen is pretty high at 39, which I'm wondering if that could be the cause of the lack of libido. Currently I'm taking 12.5 mg EOD of Aromasin.

Should I up Aromasin maybe to 12.5 ED, or would that be too much? I'd like to get it down to the low 20's which is where it was pre-cycle.

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)	Mid-PCT (10 wks)	Post-PCT (12 wks)
Total test	516	98	70	455	931
LH	2.4	1.5	0.9	6.3	9.2
FSH	2.7	1.5	1.1	3.9	5.0
Estradiol	22.8	26.2	28.4	42.3	39.0
Total Cholesterol	156	152	134	178	157
HDL	44	28	17	34	47
LDL	99	105	100	131	98

Wow very comprehensive blood work, thanks for posting this! How long have you been on that dose of aromasin? The whole PCT? If so, I would def. bump up to 12.5 ED and see what happens to your libido.

 

[migseattle]

Wow very comprehensive blood work, thanks for posting this! How long have you been on that dose of aromasin? The whole PCT? If so, I would def. bump up to 12.5 ED and see what happens to your libido.

I started aromasin at the 10 week mark (mid-PCT). I think that's the reason why my E stayed basically flat while my test doubled. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll bump the dose up starting tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[ericos_bob]

Looking like your E will be back to normal shortly. Good on you for keeping the bloods rolling atleast you should have things in check before your E drops too low. Only thing that ever killed my libido was excessive solo run of a high dose arimistane. Are you still keeping the training intensity up?

 

[UndiluteD]

Alright gang, here's an update. Finally got my bloods back for the 4-week mark of my PCT. Overall and by the numbers, I'm happy with my recovery. Test is very high at 931 (way higher than pre-cycle levels) and I fully realize it will come down as I stop the SERMs... hope it levels out at a good value. Cholesterol is back in great shape -- pre-cycle values.

Two concerns. 1) Despite the high test, my libido is not back. I have no interest in sex nor I get good erections. 2) My estrogen is pretty high at 39, which I'm wondering if that could be the cause of the lack of libido. Currently I'm taking 12.5 mg EOD of Aromasin.

Should I up Aromasin maybe to 12.5 ED, or would that be too much? I'd like to get it down to the low 20's which is where it was pre-cycle.

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)	Mid-PCT (10 wks)	Post-PCT (12 wks)
Total test	516	98	70	455	931
LH	2.4	1.5	0.9	6.3	9.2
FSH	2.7	1.5	1.1	3.9	5.0
Estradiol	22.8	26.2	28.4	42.3	39.0
Total Cholesterol	156	152	134	178	157
HDL	44	28	17	34	47
LDL	99	105	100	131	98

Any updates on the libido having similar issues

 

[migseattle]

Any updates on the libido having similar issues

Yes! Here's the latest on this saga Adding blood results from 2.5 weeks after PCT.

	Pre-cycle	Mid-cycle (4 wks)	Post-cycle (8 wks)	Mid-PCT (10 wks)	End of PCT (12 wks)	2.5 weeks after PCT (14.5 wks)
Total test	516	98	70	455	931	1100
LH	2.4	1.5	0.9	6.3	9.2	5.7
FSH	2.7	1.5	1.1	3.9	5.0	4.0
Estradiol	22.8	26.2	28.4	42.3	39.0	35.3
Total Cholesterol	156	152	134	178	157	144
HDL	44	28	17	34	47	47
LDL	99	105	100	131	98	85

Pretty incredible levels of testosterone, at 1100! I'm surprised that it kept going up even after 2.5 weeks after stopping the SERMs. I wonder if the Aromasin is influencing this. My Estradiol is slowly coming down, and this week I increased my dose of Aromasin a bit to accelerate getting it back into the 20's. And shortly after I did this, guess what happened... My libido came back with a vengeance. I'm pretty sure the culprit was the high estrogen. Lesson learned for next time: start Aromasin concurrently with PCT instead of waiting.

So a happy ending to this story (pun intended). Test is very high which makes for great workouts, a sharp brain and high energy. Libido is great again. I've kept all my gains and strength from the cycle. And as a bonus, my LDL is lower than it's ever been, which I attribute to the GW and the extra cardio that I've started as I go into a cut to lean out a bit, since the 2-3 weeks of low T and high E definitely made me gain some fat.

In another week I'll stop the Aromasin and 2-3 weeks after will do a final set of bloods to see where my values stabilize. At that point I'll consider this case closed!

 

[Hyde]

Sub

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

The exact reason i tell everyone to run aromasin in PCT... All the time.

 

[migseattle]

The exact reason i tell everyone to run aromasin in PCT... All the time.

Yes! I think it was your original comment that made me include aromasin in my PCT in the first place. thanks!