Rebound after succesful Gyno Reversal

[DunkoroChitlu]

Just finished gyno reversal protocol succesfully with Ralox. Did the following:

60mg - 1 month / 30mg - 2 months / 15mg 2 weeks.

It's been 2 weeks off and I am getting mad rebound. Has gotten even worse.

How is it possible if estro and prolactin are on good levels?

Maybe the high level test is aromatizing? Should have come off with 0,5 ED letro for a few weeks?

Background: Quit steroids completely 6 years ago. Haven't used any gear since. Got this recent gyno due to eating junk food for a few weeks and gaining some fat. Now I'm around 15% bf.

Blood work from 2 days ago -

http://imgur.com/o8D8mO6

 

[Renew1]

Got this recent gyno due to eating junk food for a few weeks and gaining some fat.

If eating junk food, and gaining some fat caused your gyno (it didn't) .... Then shouldn't you be correcting it with diet and fat reduction, instead of drugs?

 

[DunkoroChitlu]

If eating junk food, and gaining some fat caused your gyno (it didn't) .... Then shouldn't you be correcting it with diet and fat reduction, instead of drugs?

Thanks for your answer.
1. What can be the cause then of getting gyno while being natty? As far as I know, getting some bodyfat can increase aromatase which increases estro.

2. I reduced body fat but gyno still persisted. Now I'm around 15% bf. Even before starting the ralox protocol. Not sure how I got the rebound if estro and prolactin are all good? Doesn't make any sense

 

[Renew1]

Thanks for your answer.
1. What can be the cause then of getting gyno while being natty? As far as I know, getting some bodyfat can increase aromatase which increases estro.

2. I reduced body fat but gyno still persisted. Now I'm around 15% bf. Even before starting the ralox protocol. Not sure how I got the rebound if estro and prolactin are all good? Doesn't make any sense

If you didn't have a FULL Removal gyno surgery ..... You still had gyno (even if it wasn't noticable to you).

Drugs can make gyno Appear nonexistent, but it will still be there.

If you got that blood work 2 days ago, it doesn't necessarily reflect where your numbers were when the gyno resurfaced.

I think you were on the right track when you mentioned tapering more....

 

[Jeremyk1]

I’ve heard of some people having estrogen rebounding after coming off SERMs. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to add in some low dose AIs while tapering down on your SERM. I usually use exemestane a couple times a week.

 

[Stacks1]

Everybody talks about ralox for "gyno reversal." Is this really legit? Some people say they have used it for pubertal gyno decades after successfully. It sounds almost impossible but it's become quite popular. Is it really that effective? And why wouldn't this be achieved with nolva instead?

 

[tyga tyga]

Everybody talks about ralox for "gyno reversal." Is this really legit? Some people say they have used it for pubertal gyno decades after successfully. It sounds almost impossible but it's become quite popular. Is it really that effective? And why wouldn't this be achieved with nolva instead?

Yes it is.

Reversed mine with

120mg for 21 days
60mg for 30 days
30mg for 30 days

 

[Stacks1]

Yes it is.

Reversed mine with

120mg for 21 days
60mg for 30 days
30mg for 30 days

That's a high dose for a fairly decent length of time. Any sides or rebound issues?

 

[Stacks1]

Also, do you run the ralox for gyno reversal as part of a PCT or is this done separately on time off?

 

[DunkoroChitlu]

I’ve heard of some people having estrogen rebounding after coming off SERMs. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to add in some low dose AIs while tapering down on your SERM. I usually use exemestane a couple times a week.

Yes, thats what I thought but my blood results show low estro, then how is it possible a rebound?

But I'm assuming that low estro doesn't necessarily mean lack of aromatization, correct? This is the only reason I find for an actual rebound.

 

[DunkoroChitlu]

Also, do you run the ralox for gyno reversal as part of a PCT or is this done separately on time off?

As I mentioned, It's been 6 years since I've been away from all kind of gear. Back then I'd use nolva during PCT. Funny that during the time I was on gear no gyno ever appeared. I used test, tren, dnp, dbol...etc. Blast & cruised for 5 years.

And now that I am natty without any gear, f*cking gyno appears

 

[Stacks1]

As I mentioned, It's been 6 years since I've been away from all kind of gear. Back then I'd use nolva during PCT. Funny that during the time I was on gear no gyno ever appeared. I used test, tren, dnp, dbol...etc. Blast & cruised for 5 years.

And now that I am natty without any gear, f*cking gyno appears

I was actually questioning @tyga tyga as to whether he ran the ralox during PCT or not.

Yes, it's strange that you didn't get gyno during cycling but did well after. Never heard of someone getting it from junk food either. Wonder if there is possibly something else that could be at play.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Everybody talks about ralox for "gyno reversal." Is this really legit? Some people say they have used it for pubertal gyno decades after successfully. It sounds almost impossible but it's become quite popular. Is it really that effective? And why wouldn't this be achieved with nolva instead?

Without surgery, I believe the tissue will still be there. But yeah you can shrink it way down to not be noticeable anymore.

Everyone I’ve seen says raloxifene is the best thing for gyno, but when I had a flare up I blew through a couple bottles and didn’t notice anything. A little tamoxifen cleared it up in like a week. That’s my go-to if it acts up. Mine only has twice though. Just like 20mg of tamoxifen for a few weeks, then drop to 10 and add in 12 or so mg of exemestane two or three times a week. I just keep that up for a month or so to keep hitting it, but it looks gone after about a week. I haven’t seen it pop back up in years.

 

[Stacks1]

Without surgery, I believe the tissue will still be there. But yeah you can shrink it way down to not be noticeable anymore.

Everyone I’ve seen says raloxifene is the best thing for gyno, but when I had a flare up I blew through a couple bottles and didn’t notice anything. A little tamoxifen cleared it up in like a week. That’s my go-to if it acts up. Mine only has twice though. Just like 20mg of tamoxifen for a few weeks, then drop to 10 and add in 12 or so mg of exemestane two or three times a week. I just keep that up for a month or so to keep hitting it, but it looks gone after about a week. I haven’t seen it pop back up in years.

Yeah but that's a flare up that you're talking about. Nolvadex or an AI is great to catch gyno early, however people are claiming ralox takes away gyno (or at least hides it) that has been around for decades.

 

[Mikereyn513]

As I mentioned, It's been 6 years since I've been away from all kind of gear. Back then I'd use nolva during PCT. Funny that during the time I was on gear no gyno ever appeared. I used test, tren, dnp, dbol...etc. Blast & cruised for 5 years.

And now that I am natty without any gear, f*cking gyno appears

I guess that means it's time to hop back on then your body ain't feeling the whole natty thing lol

 

[Renew1]

Yeah but that's a flare up that you're talking about. Nolvadex or an AI is great to catch gyno early, however people are claiming ralox takes away gyno (or at least hides it) that has been around for decades.

Just hides it, man.
Like I stated above, only surgery will remove gyno.

 

[Stacks1]

Just hides it, man.
Like I stated above, only surgery will remove gyno.

Yeah... but if it hides it to a point where it is no longer noticeable I can certainly see the appeal to that. Especially if it lasts long-term.

 

[Renew1]

Yeah... but if it hides it to a point where it is no longer noticeable I can certainly see the appeal to that. Especially if it lasts long-term.

It's Very appealing.
Much more appealing than surgery.
But ..... It only lasts as long as it lasts.
In most guys, gyno acts like it is just Dying to regrow!
:-(

 

[SSJ4GOD]

It's Very appealing.
Much more appealing than surgery.
But ..... It only lasts as long as it lasts.
In most guys, gyno acts like it is just Dying to regrow!
:-(

To me it’s like a free do over. If you continue to take gear, you better be on top of estrogen from then on. If you stop gear, you are probably pretty good for the long haul

 

[Renew1]

To me it’s like a free do over. If you continue to take gear, you better be on top of estrogen from then on. If you stop gear, you are probably pretty good for the long haul

Yeah .......
But who Does That?
LOL.



..... Honestly, so few that I can't even say it's a thing

 

[DunkoroChitlu]

To me it’s like a free do over. If you continue to take gear, you better be on top of estrogen from then on. If you stop gear, you are probably pretty good for the long haul

Apparently not my case. 6 years off gear and gyno appears every once in a while

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yeah but that's a flare up that you're talking about. Nolvadex or an AI is great to catch gyno early, however people are claiming ralox takes away gyno (or at least hides it) that has been around for decades.

Maybe i need to give ralox a go...

 

[Stacks1]

Maybe i need to give ralox a go...

I'm definitely interested in seeing someone's success with it. I've heard about it but never seen actual before and after pics.

 

[UnrealMachine]

You can stop gyno infinitely but you can’t really stop it indefinitely unless you plan to take anti Es forever. It is always liable to come back.

hormones are complicated and influenced by things like sleep and diet and other drugs (marijuana has known interactions).
I had recurring gyno repeatedly while totally natural and got tired of playing whack a mole with anti estrogens all the time. It also doesn’t seem healthy having to crush estrogen so often.

I got the surgery and it’s been a life changer. No more nagging nips! Paid pre-tax out of my HSA and happy with my decision.

 

[Stacks1]

You can stop gyno infinitely but you can’t really stop it indefinitely unless you plan to take anti Es forever. It is always liable to come back.

hormones are complicated and influenced by things like sleep and diet and other drugs (marijuana has known interactions).
I had recurring gyno repeatedly while totally natural and got tired of playing whack a mole with anti estrogens all the time. It also doesn’t seem healthy having to crush estrogen so often.

I got the surgery and it’s been a life changer. No more nagging nips! Paid pre-tax out of my HSA and happy with my decision.

I agree with this but even if you get the surgery can't gyno still come back? If you have to constantly mess with estrogen levels it's not worth it. But if you can run ralox once and disguise it without constant flare ups... well... that might be worth it.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I agree with this but even if you get the surgery can't gyno still come back? If you have to constantly mess with estrogen levels it's not worth it. But if you can run ralox once and disguise it without constant flare ups... well... that might be worth it.

it can in theory but in practice it tends not to. The overwhelming majority of the gland is removed. Case in point I made no lifestyle changes and the surgery has prevented any reoccurrence of sensitivity, inflammation or gyno like symptoms

 

[Stacks1]

it can in theory but in practice it tends not to. The overwhelming majority of the gland is removed. Case in point I made no lifestyle changes and the surgery has prevented any reoccurrence of sensitivity, inflammation or gyno like symptoms

I've definitely heard of people getting the surgery more than once though. But even if you have to get it more than once it's still safer than having to constantly mess with estrogen levels. But I'm curious if people have had success with ralox without the rebound issue. I'm still a little skeptical about the ralox thing to be honest although I seem to see more and more people doing it.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I am skeptical that any anti E can prevent prevent future gyno. There is no protection from future recurrence.

If you’re prone to getting gyno popping up again and again you’d have to walk a hormonal tightrope indefinitely to prevent recurrence

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Yes, thats what I thought but my blood results show low estro, then how is it possible a rebound?

But I'm assuming that low estro doesn't necessarily mean lack of aromatization, correct? This is the only reason I find for an actual rebound.

this is what I think your issue is. starting an AI after a SERM is a good idea for many.

 

[Stacks1]

I am skeptical that any anti E can prevent prevent future gyno. There is no protection from future recurrence.

If you’re prone to getting gyno popping up again and again you’d have to walk a hormonal tightrope indefinitely to prevent recurrence

True. Although some people claimed they have used ralox for pubertal gyno... so not sure if that necessarily makes them prone today. Just because someone got it at 12 doesn't necessarily mean they would be prone at 42.

 

[Renew1]

I agree with this but even if you get the surgery can't gyno still come back? If you have to constantly mess with estrogen levels it's not worth it. But if you can run ralox once and disguise it without constant flare ups... well... that might be worth it.

If the Dr doesn't get it all, it can.
I've talked to a few guys that it happened to.
If you ever decide to get it done, just tell the Dr (ahead of time) your concerns, and ask him if this has ever happened to any of his patients.

 

[Renew1]

True. Although some people claimed they have used ralox for pubertal gyno... so not sure if that necessarily makes them prone today. Just because someone got it at 12 doesn't necessarily mean they would be prone at 42.

It doesn't matter when the gyno occurred.
If it was Truly gyno, and not just a fat chest, unless it is surgically removed, you'll be more prone to it .... Because it is Already there

 

[UnrealMachine]

If the Dr doesn't get it all, it can.
I've talked to a few guys that it happened to.
If you ever decide to get it done, just tell the Dr (ahead of time) your concerns, and ask him if this has ever happened to any of his patients.

my convo with my doc was basically, he can’t promise it won’t come back, but it’s not an issue for other patients (of course he would say that but it’s on par with the word of mouth we all hear). I’m no doctor but I understand there’s a tiny piece of the gland usually left there but it’s like “neutered” lol and tends not to regrow.

 

[Renew1]

my convo with my doc was basically, he can’t promise it won’t come back, but it’s not an issue for other patients (of course he would say that but it’s on par with the word of mouth we all hear). I’m no doctor but I understand there’s a tiny piece of the gland usually left there but it’s like “neutered” lol and tends not to regrow.

I don't understand why they would leave that tiny piece (but I'm not a Dr.).

Yeah .... Drs hate to say "never", because that opens them up to liability.

I had a Dr do that to me years ago.
It worried the crap out of me for a minute, and then I just said "screw it", I'm going to just live my life.
.... And there was "never" an issue.
LOL.

 

[UnrealMachine]

It was a few years ago but my recollection is a tiny piece of gland is left to give the nipple some shape and if they remove 100% of the gland the nipple will appear to be indented.

but anyway @Renew1 same as you it’s never been an issue. Getting the surgery has been awesome

 

[Stacks1]

It doesn't matter when the gyno occurred.
If it was Truly gyno, and not just a fat chest, unless it is surgically removed, you'll be more prone to it .... Because it is Already there

True. But during puberty hormones are a bit messy so I understand why gyno occurs. But 20 or 30 years later one's hormones can stabilize, so there might not be any flare ups. Although this is assuming the person doesn't use AAS. It's technically all hypothetical. But my point was that if you can shrink it and you can more or less stabilize your hormones (assuming you're not an AAS user) it seems like it could be an attractive long-term solution for some people. But I also feel like I'm missing something here.

 

[Renew1]

It was a few years ago but my recollection is a tiny piece of gland is left to give the nipple some shape and if they remove 100% of the gland the nipple will appear to be indented.

but anyway @Renew1 same as you it’s never been an issue. Getting the surgery has been awesome

That's awesome man.

Sorry, I left my comment ambiguous.
I never had gyno surgery.
I had a major physical issue come up when I was 18, and when things were coming to a close, I asked the Dr, "Will this stop me from continuing to lift weights, or anything else"?
And the Dr replied, "You should be able to do PRETTY MUCH anything that anyone else can do".

LOL
***Hole.
He was just covering his butt.
There were zero remaining or recurring issues. .... And there never will be.
I've been able to do ANYTHING that I ever wanted physically.

I understand that Drs want to cover themselves, but to say something like that to an 18 year old, kinda sucks ***.

 

[Renew1]

True. But during puberty hormones are a bit messy so I understand why gyno occurs. But 20 or 30 years later one's hormones can stabilize, so there might not be any flare ups. Although this is assuming the person doesn't use AAS. It's technically all hypothetical. But my point was that if you can shrink it and you can more or less stabilize your hormones (assuming you're not an AAS user) it seems like it could be an attractive long-term solution for some people. But I also feel like I'm missing something here.

Yep.
I think we're disconnecting here:.

If gyno is in a person's body, drugs WON'T MAKE IT LEAVE.
It will always be there.
Drugs can shrink it (and usually will).
But nothing apart from surgery will ever remove it.
If you have it, you'll be More Likely to have it become noticable/visible again, because it's Already There (even if it never becomes noticable again).

Of course things that cause gyno (or flare ups) can increase your chances (or lower them, if you don't have those factors in your life).

But of course, All Other Things Being Equal.... If you already have gyno, you are more likely to notice it again, then if you didn't already have it.

 

[Stacks1]

Yep.
I think we're disconnecting here:.

If gyno is in a person's body, drugs WON'T MAKE IT LEAVE.
It will always be there.
Drugs can shrink it (and usually will).
But nothing apart from surgery will ever remove it.
If you have it, you'll be More Likely to have it become noticable/visible again, because it's Already There (even if it never becomes noticable again).

Of course things that cause gyno (or flare ups) can increase your chances (or lower them, if you don't have those factors in your life).

But of course, All Other Things Being Equal.... If you already have gyno, you are more likely to notice it again, then if you didn't already have it.

For sure. I totally understand what you're saying about the gyno never actually being gone. I guess I'm just curious what kind of results people have actually gotten from it and any issues thereafter. I've heard of more and more people having success with this but I haven't really seen it. I'm not saying it doesn't help cover up gyno... I'm just a little skeptical that's all.

 

[Renew1]

For sure. I totally understand what you're saying about the gyno never actually being gone. I guess I'm just curious what kind of results people have actually gotten from it and any issues thereafter. I've heard of more and more people having success with this but I haven't really seen it. I'm not saying it doesn't help cover up gyno... I'm just a little skeptical that's all.

A lot of people seem to have good success with it (more will probably comment).
There were some good protocols posted on here a few years ago (I THINK one was by @hairygrandpa).
If I run across some, I'll tag you.

 

[Renew1]

Everybody talks about ralox for "gyno reversal." Is this really legit? Some people say they have used it for pubertal gyno decades after successfully. It sounds almost impossible but it's become quite popular. Is it really that effective? And why wouldn't this be achieved with nolva instead?

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia - PubMed

Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Stacks1]

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia - PubMed

Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks for posting this. This is actually very interesting.

 

[Renew1]

Thanks for posting this. This is actually very interesting.

No problem, man!

 

[DunkoroChitlu]

So anyone has any idea on how the hell gyno came back after ralox usage if all the hormonal values are in range?
Thanks.

 

[tyga tyga]

Also, do you run the ralox for gyno reversal as part of a PCT or is this done separately on time off?

Sorry I’m just now responding. I ran it separately because my gyno flared. However, like everyone else has mentioned… mine came have a few years later. I’m actually using 60mg now and have been for two months. And again, I can’t feel anything it’s not tangible. I’m going to taper longer this time around

30mg for 30 days
15mg for 30 days
7.5mg for 30 days

 

[Jeremyk1]

So anyone has any idea on how the hell gyno came back after ralox usage if all the hormonal values are in range?
Thanks.

Yours may just be stubborn. If it was me, I’d run a longer cycle of raloxifene or tamoxifen to get it down as much as possible. Definitely taper it down, and add in low dose AI. I’d probably go ahead and start getting in extra zinc and vitamin D as well, those can help keep E under control as well as supporting overall health. You may need to include something like DIM regularly as well, yours may just be sensitive.

 

[Smont]

it can in theory but in practice it tends not to. The overwhelming majority of the gland is removed. Case in point I made no lifestyle changes and the surgery has prevented any reoccurrence of sensitivity, inflammation or gyno like symptoms

It actually comes back for more people then you think, its still not common but its also not crazyfor it to happen. Any part of the remaining gland can grow back to full blown gyno and they can almost never fully remove the gland without the nipples concave. Still, surgery is definitely the safest bet.

I don't remember who made the comment on the drugs shrinking it but in that situation, if you were to use letro to crush your estrogen to nothing and use nolva or raloxifene after that you can get rid of the gyno completely but it's still not actually gone because the gland is there. Once your estrogen is high again it will come back just like the first time you got it. I've successfully used a few different things to make it visibly dissappear without crushing estrogen but it always comes back eventually. It never gets to a point where it's terrible but the raloxifene or nolva is a temporary fix for sure

 

[Jbryfit1]

When ralox binds with the ER in breast tissue, it acts as an antagonist. Meaning it bonds with but has little to no interaction with the er.
Taking this for months will in a sense, de sensitize the er.
Then when you stop the drug, that ER is now open and for your estrogen to bind with.
So you’ve went say 1,2,3 months with no interaction, the estrogen comes along and bonds with, and interacts it’s gonna be like taking that first sip of your favorite beverage after 3 long months…and begin doing what estrogen does.
And that’s not even taking into account how your hormones look at baseline.
All natty, never touching anything.
Gyno is a mix of multiple hormonal imbalances going on that start by touching anything that disrupts your hptga, from test, estrogen, to hgh, prolactin, etc.
Maybe this thread will help.

Using Drugs to treat Gyno - AnabolicMinds.com

Gynecomastia: Causes & Cures Gyno treatment protocols; For estrogen-related gyno; Raloxifene at 60mg daily for up to 90 days or Nolva at 20mg daily for up to 90 days or Torem at 60mg daily for up to 90 days SERMs have a half-life of 5-7 days, with Raloxifene being the best one at binding to...

anabolicminds.com

 

[DunkoroChitlu]

Yours may just be stubborn. If it was me, I’d run a longer cycle of raloxifene or tamoxifen to get it down as much as possible. Definitely taper it down, and add in low dose AI. I’d probably go ahead and start getting in extra zinc and vitamin D as well, those can help keep E under control as well as supporting overall health. You may need to include something like DIM regularly as well, yours may just be sensitive.

Yes. Thats what I thought. Difficult to assess the doses. Ralox and Letro I use are both pharma grade.

Right now running Ralox again

Day 1-4: 120mg
Day 5-14: 90mg
3 weeks: 60mg
3 weeks: 30mg
2 weeks: 15mg

Thinking to add 0,5mg letro EOD in the last 2 weeks and then continue tapering it down for another 2-3 weeks after stopping ralox use.

What do you think?

 

[Smont]

Yes. Thats what I thought. Difficult to assess the doses. Ralox and Letro I use are both pharma grade.

Right now running Ralox again

Day 1-4: 120mg
Day 5-14: 90mg
3 weeks: 60mg
3 weeks: 30mg
2 weeks: 15mg

Thinking to add 0,5mg letro EOD in the last 2 weeks and then continue tapering it down for another 2-3 weeks after stopping ralox use.

What do you think?

I don't see any benefits to 15mg of ralox in the shrinking process. Maybe 15 as a prevention measure on a cycle. I also don't see any need to taper off so gradually. Most successful gyno shrinking I did with 12.5mg exemestane daily and 100mg or ralox for weeks 1 and 2. Weeks 3 and 4 I did 12.5 exem eod and 50mg ralox daily and the following 4 weeks I did just ralox 50 mg a day.

Over the past 3 years or so I had to run a protocol 3 or 4 timesaving that was the most aggressive one and ot worked the best. It's been over 6 months and it's still not coming back. It will eventually tho. It always comes back to some degree