Rate my cutting cycle - Albuterol 5mg ED 2x, caffeine 200mg 2x, T2 + Armour Thyroid 2x & Ketotifen Before Bed

StarScream66

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So, the title says it all. I'll be taking:
Albuterol 5mg ED twice daily
caffeine 200mg w/ the Albuterol twice daily. If you're not familar with Albuterol, it's chemical cousin of Clenbuterol but only lasts about 8 hours and has many less sides but is just as potent. Here's a good article about it.


T2 + Armour Thyroid both twice daily

Now, this is a bit of a a controversial delivery method for thyroid hormone. I already have the T2 I got for free from a supplement company, so I figured I would throw it in there. Most everyone I talked to say it sucks, but according to the well respected SuppVersity, there are some studies that show T2 in the 3,5 form, as opposed to the 3,2 form might be beneficial.


Next, the armour thyroid. I can buy it from an online pharmacy, but they have different grains and I'm not sure which to buy. Armour Thyroid is desiccated cow thyroid. It has pretty good levels of both T3 and T4 and I feel like it could contribute to the cycle beneficially. The reason I don't want to just use T3 is because last time I got my blood panels, everything sucked. I was anemic, my cholesterol levels sucksed and my BP was too high. I'm very concerned with my cardiovascular health, so that's why I'm trying to mitigate the effects.

Armour® Thyroid (thyroid tablets, USP)* for oral use is a natural preparation derived from porcine thyroid glands and has a strong, characteristic odor. (T3 liothyronine is approximately four times as potent as T4 levothyroxine on a microgram for microgram basis.) They provide 38 mcg levothyroxine (T4) and 9 mcg liothyronine (T3) per grain of thyroid.
Source

This is the thyroid extract I'm looking to use. It comes from NZ cows and is sold as a dietary supplement. They have also included beef liver in there, which I think is a great supplement on it's own, so I think it's probably a good choice.


AMOUNT PER CAPSULE

Freeze-Dried New Zealand Grassfed Desiccated Beef Thyroid With Liver

Grass Fed Thyroid (Bovine) 30MG
Grass Fed Liver (Bovine) 470MG

Recommended serving size: 8 tablets

Finally, 1mg of Ketotifen before bed to keep Albuterol from downregulating the beta receptors. I might also throw i n some yohimbine 2.5mg with my twice daily doses.

Let me know your thoughts, it's greatly appreciated!

-SS
 

bradleyt1

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So... where are the anabolics? This sounds like straight up eat away muscle stack. Personally I’m not a fan of all that stimulant ****.. I think it’s terrible on the heart. I’ve done contest prep numerous times and never touch a stimulant. Just a mild cycle/ aggressive TRT dose test and diet hard, cardio hard, and train hard.. and I got stage ready. You don’t need all that ****
 
StarScream66

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I'm not planning on using anabolics during the cycle. If it eat's muscle, it eat's muscle. I'm okay with that. Although I have tons of SARMs and DSes laying around. I'd rather use something like test prop if anything at all, but I don't have any sources for UGL labs,I can't go see TRT clinic doc right now because the coronavirus has all non essential medical offices shut down, so I'm kind of stuck with what I have.

As far as stimulants, I think they work. Albuterol is a much milder stimulant than Clen and really doesn't make you feel nervous or edgy. It's a pretty mild drug in that regard.

But everyone has their opinions. I know a lot of ppl are against stimulants, but I find they work well.
 
StarScream66

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If you die can I have your weights? j/k


Just do an ECA stack.
Well, I already ordered the supplies, so it's too late for that. :) But, I did think about an ECA stack. However, I have clinical anxiety which I have to take medication for. So, the stimulation of an ECA stack would just make me super nervous and paranoid.
 
Renew1

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Well, I already ordered the supplies, so it's too late for that. :) But, I did think about an ECA stack. However, I have clinical anxiety which I have to take medication for. So, the stimulation of an ECA stack would just make me super nervous and paranoid.
I'm not a big fan of stims personally. But I understand that some like to use them. But they're generally a terrible mix with any kind of anxiety. (I've personally experienced that in the past).
I agree with the others brother. I wouldn't advise running it. But you're going to.

It's your body and mind, not ours.

Let us know how it's going.
 
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StarScream66

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I'm not a big fan of stims personally. But I understand that some like to use them. But they're generally a terrible mix with any kind of anxiety. (I've personally experienced that in the past).
I agree with the others brother. I wouldn't advise running it. But you're going to.

It's your body and mind, not ours.

Let us know how it's going.
Well, I'm open to suggestions -- that's why I created this thread. I think Albuterol + thyroid hormone is a good cycle. Is that something you disagree with or is it the fact I'm not using anabolics?

“If it eats muscle, it eats muscle.”

Thats the worst point of view toward a cut I’ve ever heard.

I don’t like this plan at all.
Like I said, I'm open to suggestions. I'd rather not include an anabolic for health reasons - ie: my HDL cholesterol is up too high, my BP is high and other factors. But, please, I welcome any critique or suggestions.
 

jrock645

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Well, I'm open to suggestions -- that's why I created this thread. I think Albuterol + thyroid hormone is a good cycle. Is that something you disagree with or is it the fact I'm not using anabolics?



Like I said, I'm open to suggestions. I'd rather not include an anabolic for health reasons - ie: my HDL cholesterol is up too high, my BP is high and other factors. But, please, I welcome any critique or suggestions.
If anabolics are off the table, even just trt, maybe lay off the hard stuff and just diet. Something like alphalean7 does great for appetite control for me, which makes the hardest part of a diet much easier.
 

BBiceps

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Like someone already said, adding a anabolic would be smart. I did something similar 1 time and paid hard for it. I did get very lean but lost way too much strength&muscles and crashed my test levels. I looked good but felt like sh*t. Won’t do a hardcore cut without anabolics ever again.
 
Renew1

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Well, I'm open to suggestions -- that's why I created this thread. I think Albuterol + thyroid hormone is a good cycle. Is that something you disagree with or is it the fact I'm not using anabolics?



Like I said, I'm open to suggestions. I'd rather not include an anabolic for health reasons - ie: my HDL cholesterol is up too high, my BP is high and other factors. But, please, I welcome any critique or suggestions.
My comments weren't meant to be harsh, just trying to help you.

What would I recommend to anyone else that came to me with this proposed cycle? ....

Mainly things that have already been mentioned.

Consider dropping the compounds, or at least add in an Anabolic.

For cutting ... Aerobic activity, cut cals, maybe choose a compound on the higher end of the Androgenic scale.

I seriously wouldn't recommend this cycle for anyone. Especially someone with anxiety. I used to have some decent anxiety myself, and this cycle makes me feel like crap just looking at it.

Honestly, I wouldn't personally recommend this cycle, even with an Anabolic. But at least that way you would only get ripped apart mentally, instead of mentally and physically.

These are only my suggestions, but I believe they are ones that could help you man.
:)
 
StarScream66

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If anabolics are off the table, even just trt, maybe lay off the hard stuff and just diet. Something like alphalean7 does great for appetite control for me, which makes the hardest part of a diet much easier.
Well, I would use test prop, but I just don't have a source *cough*hint-hint*cough*.

Like someone already said, adding a anabolic would be smart. I did something similar 1 time and paid hard for it. I did get very lean but lost way too much strength&muscles and crashed my test levels. I looked good but felt like sh*t. Won’t do a hardcore cut without anabolics ever again.
Interesting, I didn't realize a fat burning cycle would cause so much muscle loss.

Your HDL is up too high? You mean your LDL?
HDL is good. LDL bad.

Albuterol would probably be similar to Ephedrine regarding any anxiety.
It's hard to tell, and probably user dependent and dosage. I would trust E before A.
Oops, yeah. LDL 😊

I've used Albuterol in the past and really didn't feel any anxiety from it. It's not a hard stimulant that really boosts energy levels or anything.
 
StarScream66

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My comments weren't meant to be harsh, just trying to help you.

What would I recommend to anyone else that came to me with this proposed cycle? ....

Mainly things that have already been mentioned.

Consider dropping the compounds, or at least add in an Anabolic.

For cutting ... Aerobic activity, cut cals, maybe choose a compound on the higher end of the Androgenic scale.

I seriously wouldn't recommend this cycle for anyone. Especially someone with anxiety. I used to have some decent anxiety myself, and this cycle makes me feel like crap just looking at it.

Honestly, I wouldn't personally recommend this cycle, even with an Anabolic. But at least that way you would only get ripped apart mentally, instead of mentally and physically.

These are only my suggestions, but I believe they are ones that could help you man.
:)
Ofc I'm going to cut calories, do a meal plan and lots of aerobic activity (I bought an exercise bike before the pandemic started, so I'm set for that).

IMO, Albuterol really doesn't give you much anxiety. Like I was saying in my other post, it's not a strong stimulant like DMAA that gets you wired or gives you tons of energy.

But, what anabolic would you suggest adding in?
 
Renew1

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Ofc I'm going to cut calories, do a meal plan and lots of aerobic activity (I bought an exercise bike before the pandemic started, so I'm set for that).

IMO, Albuterol really doesn't give you much anxiety. Like I was saying in my other post, it's not a strong stimulant like DMAA that gets you wired or gives you tons of energy.

But, what anabolic would you suggest adding in?
Not to sound like a broken record, but Epiandro TD has tightened me up considerably.
I think the higher Androgenic compounds are great for something like this.
 
semtex

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Ofc I'm going to cut calories, do a meal plan and lots of aerobic activity (I bought an exercise bike before the pandemic started, so I'm set for that).

IMO, Albuterol really doesn't give you much anxiety. Like I was saying in my other post, it's not a strong stimulant like DMAA that gets you wired or gives you tons of energy.

But, what anabolic would you suggest adding in?
Maybe some alpha gainz 4-andro if you can't get test
 

jrock645

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Ofc I'm going to cut calories, do a meal plan and lots of aerobic activity (I bought an exercise bike before the pandemic started, so I'm set for that).

IMO, Albuterol really doesn't give you much anxiety. Like I was saying in my other post, it's not a strong stimulant like DMAA that gets you wired or gives you tons of energy.

But, what anabolic would you suggest adding in?
Eh, I’m finishing up a cut now. 4 weeks left and I’ll be in single digits by the end of it. I have not done a single minute of cardio the last two months, coach’s order. Don’t overdo it on the cardio, prioritize weight training, nutrition and sleep.
 

johnny412

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So... where are the anabolics? This sounds like straight up eat away muscle stack. Personally I’m not a fan of all that stimulant ****.. I think it’s terrible on the heart. I’ve done contest prep numerous times and never touch a stimulant. Just a mild cycle/ aggressive TRT dose test and diet hard, cardio hard, and train hard.. and I got stage ready. You don’t need all that ****
how old were you?
 
StarScream66

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Not to sound like a broken record, but Epiandro TD has tightened me up considerably.
I think the higher Androgenic compounds are great for something like this.
Is that a combo product? Epiandro + TD? What's TD?

Thanks for the suggestions,
-SS
 
Renew1

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Is that a combo product? Epiandro + TD? What's TD?

Thanks for the suggestions,
-SS
It stands for transdermal.
Stanogen by Apex Alchemy.

 
HIT4ME

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This isn't what you want to hear - and it may be harsh - but I have chased this rainbow. Usually when I try creating a "magical" stack like this, it's because I want to use my smarts and avoid doing work.

And I agree...you're smart. You've found the slightly safer chemical cousin to Clen. You've researched T2. You even know how almost useless it is. There's nothing in this post you don't already know I don't think.

I am not worried about muscle loss. Thyroid hormones eating muscle is practically a fallacy. No need for gear with it. But I think....

If you run this stack, I think your weight loss will be almost nothing. You may even gain a couple of pounds.
 
HIT4ME

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Ofc I'm going to cut calories, do a meal plan and lots of aerobic activity (I bought an exercise bike before the pandemic started, so I'm set for that).
See, I told you I couldn't tell you anything you didn't already know. Do this and the weight will come off. Even IF all that stuff you're taking increased your metabolism by 20% you'd be looking at less than 500 calories/day extra I'd bet - or 7 days to lose 1 pound more. And that's probably not realistic.

To put that another way, if you lose 8 pounds a month without this stuff and you have to lose 40 pounds - it will take you 5 months instead of 3.5. 6 weeks is nothing. And that's probably optimistic toward the benefit you'll get, it'll probably be more like 3 weeks difference.

Don't jump into all that stuff just because you want to lose this fast. It's not worth it.
 

Whisky

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What’s your starting point? Current BF and do you have a goal weight/body comp?

slightly against the grain of the above but I do like stims, I’ve used eca, clen, t3 and a host of peptides etc and I’m one of those weird people that like the jitters from clen or eph for example.

however, personally I don’t like to throw all my **** at a cut from day 1.
depending on how much you are aiming to lose I like to start with cardio and sensible calorie deficit to get things going, few weeks in then add clen, few more weeks add t3 etc (t3 is the last thing I’ll add) - the aim for me is to keep giving a new push in the right direction to keep things moving. I would normally only be shooting for 2lbs a week weight loss at most and that’ll drop to 1lb a week near the end. Personally I like to be within 12lbs of my goal weight before any fat loss supplements get involved. If I need to lose more than that then Diet and consistency in training will be used until I’m within that sort of range

it’s a bit like dating. You need to get in the right ball park to attract the sort of women (or men) you fancy. Then the actual date is all about getting up to your nuts in guts......

you don’t walk into the restaurant and complement her looks, give her a rose, pour two double vodka’s down her throat and accidentally run your hand up her thigh all at the start do you? Of course not, you have to build through the evening to keep momentum, if the evening is starting to flounder you throw a little move in as and when needed to keep making her moister and moister so by the time you leave she’s leaving a damp patch in the taxi back to yours.......
 
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HIT4ME

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What’s your starting point? Current BF and do you have a goal weight/body comp?

slightly against the grain of the above but I do like stims, I’ve used eca, clen, t3 and a host of peptides etc and I’m one of those weird people that like the jitters from clen or eph for example.

however, personally I don’t like to throw all my **** at a cut from day 1.
depending on how much you are aiming to lose I like to start with cardio and sensible calorie deficit to get things going, few weeks in then add clen, few more weeks add t3 etc (t3 is the last thing I’ll add) - the aim for me is to keep giving a new push in the right direction to keep things moving. I would normally only be shooting for 2lbs a week weight loss at most and that’ll drop to 1lb a week near the end. Personally I like to be within 12lbs of my goal weight before any fat loss supplements get involved. If I need to lose more than that then Diet and consistency in training will be used until I’m within that sort of range

it’s a bit like dating. You need to get in the right ball park to attract the sort of women (or men) you fancy. Then the actual date is all about getting up to your nuts in guts......

you don’t walk into the restaurant and complement her looks, give her a rose, pour two double vodka’s down her throat and accidentally run your hand up her thigh all at the start do you? Of course not, you have to build through the evening to keep momentum, if the evening is starting to flounder you throw a little move in as and when needed to keep making her moister and moister so by the time you leave she’s leaving a damp patch in the taxi back to yours.......
This post taught me so much about dating. :)
 

jrock645

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What’s your starting point? Current BF and do you have a goal weight/body comp?

slightly against the grain of the above but I do like stims, I’ve used eca, clen, t3 and a host of peptides etc and I’m one of those weird people that like the jitters from clen or eph for example.

however, personally I don’t like to throw all my **** at a cut from day 1.
depending on how much you are aiming to lose I like to start with cardio and sensible calorie deficit to get things going, few weeks in then add clen, few more weeks add t3 etc (t3 is the last thing I’ll add) - the aim for me is to keep giving a new push in the right direction to keep things moving. I would normally only be shooting for 2lbs a week weight loss at most and that’ll drop to 1lb a week near the end. Personally I like to be within 12lbs of my goal weight before any fat loss supplements get involved. If I need to lose more than that then Diet and consistency in training will be used until I’m within that sort of range

it’s a bit like dating. You need to get in the right ball park to attract the sort of women (or men) you fancy. Then the actual date is all about getting up to your nuts in guts......

you don’t walk into the restaurant and complement her looks, give her a rose, pour two double vodka’s down her throat and accidentally run your hand up her thigh all at the start do you? Of course not, you have to build through the evening to keep momentum, if the evening is starting to flounder you throw a little move in as and when needed to keep making her moister and moister so by the time you leave she’s leaving a damp patch in the taxi back to yours.......

No, I have never done that, but it'd be effing awesome if somebody did and we had it on video or something. That's some gangster **** right there.
 
HIT4ME

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No, I have never done that, but it'd be effing awesome if somebody did and we had it on video or something. That's some gangster **** right there.
Not gonna lie, I may have had a couple situations pretty close to this in my college days.....
 
Hyde

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Not sure why everyone is freaking out. It’s a fairly standard amount of caffeine for this use, some Albuterol (which OP has said doesn’t bother his anxiety), Ketotifen for a straight run, and useless amounts of beef thyroid.

Shame you can’t tolerate Ephedrine; I’d recommend toggling that (and Choline) with the albuterol for 2 week stints instead of taking Ketotifen to push straight through, but it is what it is.

Consider drinking freshly brewed green tea twice per day for the awesome health and lipolytic effects (plus calming L-Theanine) & using Jarrow capped Green Tea Extract when you can’t drink (they have 40mg caffeine per cap, so you might trim your 200mg tabs down to accommodate the dose).

Ashwaganda makes a great addition to help control cortisol and smooth out stims when dieting. Cheap too.

I would normally advise against thyroid manipulation without anabolics because they will absolutely eat muscle taken too high, but you won’t be doing that. Sounds like you will be close to a replacement dose/optimal normal. I’d only use these even at the tail end of this process when your natural thyroid might be suboptimal from the dieting. Mike Arnold has said about 30mcg T3 daily is all a male needs for this and only end of prep. Don’t use the thyroid hormone to do the work; use it to keep things optimal without risking muscle wasting or flattening out.
 
StarScream66

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This isn't what you want to hear - and it may be harsh - but I have chased this rainbow. Usually when I try creating a "magical" stack like this, it's because I want to use my smarts and avoid doing work.
I'm all for critiques - that's why I posted it here. I appreciate the feedback.

And I agree...you're smart. You've found the slightly safer chemical cousin to Clen. You've researched T2. You even know how almost useless it is. There's nothing in this post you don't already know I don't think.

I am not worried about muscle loss. Thyroid hormones eating muscle is practically a fallacy. No need for gear with it. But I think....

If you run this stack, I think your weight loss will be almost nothing. You may even gain a couple of pounds.
Gain a couple of pounds? Really? I don't think that's going to happen for sure :)

See, I told you I couldn't tell you anything you didn't already know. Do this and the weight will come off. Even IF all that stuff you're taking increased your metabolism by 20% you'd be looking at less than 500 calories/day extra I'd bet - or 7 days to lose 1 pound more. And that's probably not realistic.
That's a fair point. Obviously on these cycles, it's really meant to slim down a bodybuilder who is already and great shape and wants to get off the end of the water weight. But, I still think it could be a beneficial cycle for me if I ran it 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off, and 6 weeks on again.

Fair point about the calorie burning potential. I'm not sure if 500cals a day is how much it's going to burn, it could be more and it could be less.

But, we'll see!

To put that another way, if you lose 8 pounds a month without this stuff and you have to lose 40 pounds - it will take you 5 months instead of 3.5. 6 weeks is nothing. And that's probably optimistic toward the benefit you'll get, it'll probably be more like 3 weeks difference.

Don't jump into all that stuff just because you want to lose this fast. It's not worth it.
Well, what can I say, I'm a bit impulsive and impatient - but aren't we all? I think doing a cycle is a good way to sort of reinvigorate your eating and exercise patterns because you know you're at a significant advantage on the cycle and so you work extra hard to get the gains you're working hard to get, if that makes any sense.
[/QUOTE]
What’s your starting point? Current BF and do you have a goal weight/body comp?
I'll post that shortly, once I get all the supplies and I'll start a log on this.

however, personally I don’t like to throw all my **** at a cut from day 1.
depending on how much you are aiming to lose I like to start with cardio and sensible calorie deficit to get things going, few weeks in then add clen, few more weeks add t3 etc (t3 is the last thing I’ll add) - the aim for me is to keep giving a new push in the right direction to keep things moving. I would normally only be shooting for 2lbs a week weight loss at most and that’ll drop to 1lb a week near the end. Personally I like to be within 12lbs of my goal weight before any fat loss supplements get involved. If I need to lose more than that then Diet and consistency in training will be used until I’m within that sort of range
That's a fair point and perhaps I'm just being impatient. But I think your suggest to start off for a few weeks on a natural fat loss diet to get yourself prepped for the big time stuff. I'm going to try to be following the The Lean Muscle Diet by Alan Aragon. He's a nutritionist and moderator at bodybuilding.com and his book is great, I highly recommend it.

Not sure why everyone is freaking out. It’s a fairly standard amount of caffeine for this use, some Albuterol (which OP has said doesn’t bother his anxiety), Ketotifen for a straight run, and useless amounts of beef thyroid.
So you're not a fan of my beef thyroid idea? I think it has potential and is a more natural way to get some T3 and T4, but probably not enough to shut you down. I have access to an online pharmacy that sells actual Armour Thyroid, which is the real deal, but I have no idea the amount I would want/need to be taking.



Shame you can’t tolerate Ephedrine; I’d recommend toggling that (and Choline) with the albuterol for 2 week stints instead of taking Ketotifen to push straight through, but it is what it is.
I take Sunflower Lecithin daily, so I should be getting enough choline. But what's the point of the choline, in your opinion?

Consider drinking freshly brewed green tea twice per day for the awesome health and lipolytic effects (plus calming L-Theanine) & using Jarrow capped Green Tea Extract when you can’t drink (they have 40mg caffeine per cap, so you might trim your 200mg tabs down to accommodate the dose).
This is actually a great suggest that I've heard in the past. I did a training program with DOGG (whats his name? I can't remember the rest of it). I actually like to make the the Lipton Green Tea Bags with Cranberry Pomegranate

Ashwaganda makes a great addition to help control cortisol and smooth out stims when dieting. Cheap too.
I've tried Ashwaganda in the past, even the KSM-66 version, which is supposed to be the top of the line, but I really never felt like I got anything out of it. I'm not a big fan of 'adaptogens'.

I would normally advise against thyroid manipulation without anabolics because they will absolutely eat muscle taken too high, but you won’t be doing that. Sounds like you will be close to a replacement dose/optimal normal. I’d only use these even at the tail end of this process when your natural thyroid might be suboptimal from the dieting. Mike Arnold has said about 30mcg T3 daily is all a male needs for this and only end of prep. Don’t use the thyroid hormone to do the work; use it to keep things optimal without risking muscle wasting or flattening out.
Solid point, I appreciate all the feedback!
 
Renew1

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I'm all for critiques - that's why I posted it here. I appreciate the feedback.



Gain a couple of pounds? Really? I don't think that's going to happen for sure :)



That's a fair point. Obviously on these cycles, it's really meant to slim down a bodybuilder who is already and great shape and wants to get off the end of the water weight. But, I still think it could be a beneficial cycle for me if I ran it 6 weeks on, 2 weeks off, and 6 weeks on again.

Fair point about the calorie burning potential. I'm not sure if 500cals a day is how much it's going to burn, it could be more and it could be less.

But, we'll see!



Well, what can I say, I'm a bit impulsive and impatient - but aren't we all? I think doing a cycle is a good way to sort of reinvigorate your eating and exercise patterns because you know you're at a significant advantage on the cycle and so you work extra hard to get the gains you're working hard to get, if that makes any sense.

I'll post that shortly, once I get all the supplies and I'll start a log on this.



That's a fair point and perhaps I'm just being impatient. But I think your suggest to start off for a few weeks on a natural fat loss diet to get yourself prepped for the big time stuff. I'm going to try to be following the The Lean Muscle Diet by Alan Aragon. He's a nutritionist and moderator at bodybuilding.com and his book is great, I highly recommend it.



So you're not a fan of my beef thyroid idea? I think it has potential and is a more natural way to get some T3 and T4, but probably not enough to shut you down. I have access to an online pharmacy that sells actual Armour Thyroid, which is the real deal, but I have no idea the amount I would want/need to be taking.





I take Sunflower Lecithin daily, so I should be getting enough choline. But what's the point of the choline, in your opinion?



This is actually a great suggest that I've heard in the past. I did a training program with DOGG (whats his name? I can't remember the rest of it). I actually like to make the the Lipton Green Tea Bags with Cranberry Pomegranate



I've tried Ashwaganda in the past, even the KSM-66 version, which is supposed to be the top of the line, but I really never felt like I got anything out of it. I'm not a big fan of 'adaptogens'.



Solid point, I appreciate all the feedback!
[/QUOTE]

You already know this ... But by withholding BF% and other stats until after you've gotten feedback, and are prepping to run your cycle .... That's a great way to get very poor, or non-relevant feedback. You are getting feedback for some theoretical guy.
 
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HIT4ME

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Haha - good post. The reason I'm saying you may gain a couple pounds is just because there are two ways to go here. Either you will be dialed in and really have some consistent progress for a short while or a long while until you burn out; or you will kind of have this mental crutch that you have all these benefits working in your favor and you can slack on the things that really matter (diet and exercise) a little. And once you do that slacking...you know the rest.

But I hope you dig in and pull it off...I've gone both ways. But to be honest, the times I've really killed weight loss, I really used the fewest things - a couple over the counter items, and diet and exercise. I've had other times where I've stacked a bunch or used dangerous items and...relied on the products to do the work instead of me. But maybe I shouldn't project my own flaws and weaknesses onto others :)

As far as the thyroid, again, I am going to disagree that it burns muscle. Lots of people take thyroid supplements without any muscle wasting issues and no gear. I personally have run T3 up to 200 mcg/day without gear and it really had almost no discernible effect on anything for me. First time I thought I got bunk RC T3. Second time I got pharma grade T3 and 200 mcg didn't burn muscle at all. Even on a PSMF eating <800 calories a day. Of course, I was still getting around 1 g/lb of bodyweight in protein.

You will see a big strength drop on it, sure. You will become deflated, sure. It is the same thing as if you are carb depleting. You lose strength and deflate and then it stops because you're depleted, and then you can continue to gain strength while you stay in that state....and once you come out of that state you fill back up and everything comes back.

Not saying everyone will have this, just that most people freak out like you will be dropping pounds and pounds a week and it just won't happen.
 
Hyde

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Choline essentially takes the place of aspirin in an ECA stack, without having to take a bunch of aspirin (daily baby aspirin has very recently been denounced as a heart healthy practice).

The thyroid runs at its base level, say producing 25mcg daily in a perfect scenario. If you introduce exogenous, say 15mcg from beef thyroid daily, it looks at what it has and produces only enough to get it up to that baseline natural level (so it produces 10mcg in that scenario to compliment the 15 you took). If you exceed natural levels, be it 25 or 200mcg, it shuts down all production because the baseline needs are being met.

This is why it’s ridiculous to taper thyroid down to try to restart it - it will NOT restart until exogenous levels fall below the natural baseline expectation. You can taper down to get used to eating less if you want, but if you want to restart the HPTA after exogenous manipulation just pull it out completely - less time shut down, greater chance of healthy recovery.
 
Hyde

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How much Choline? 1-1.5 grams? Would that cause some... stomach issues or more to the point diarrhea?

Have you experience with CCC?
Choline Carnitine Caffeine
Whatever amount is in the sup like Focus XT or Orange Brainwash I’m going to be stacking with the Bronkaid tab

Like aspirin, it’s not a critical component. I don’t understand the mechanism at all, but know from experience aspirin (and whatever inhibition it causes) doesn’t make a big difference.

Beast Fitness Radio did a good podcast on using Nicotine, Choline, Carnitine & Yohimbine to replace the traditional ECAY stack. Worth a listen for ideas to mix/match.
 
brofessorx

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I'm not planning on using anabolics during the cycle. If it eat's muscle, it eat's muscle. I'm okay with that. Although I have tons of SARMs and DSes laying around. I'd rather use something like test prop if anything at all, but I don't have any sources for UGL labs,I can't go see TRT clinic doc right now because the coronavirus has all non essential medical offices shut down, so I'm kind of stuck with what I have.

As far as stimulants, I think they work. Albuterol is a much milder stimulant than Clen and really doesn't make you feel nervous or edgy. It's a pretty mild drug in that regard.

But everyone has their opinions. I know a lot of ppl are against stimulants, but I find they work well.
You realize this is the anabolics section right?
maybe you could ask the @Admin
to move it to the https://anabolicminds.com/community/forum/weight-loss.14/
 
xR1pp3Rx

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add this to your stack and keep your muscle in check


 
StarScream66

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You realize this is the anabolics section right?
maybe you could ask the @Admin
to move it to the https://anabolicminds.com/community/forum/weight-loss.14/
Well, I haven't completely ruled out Anabolics yet. I was looking Msten & Tren or Trendione on the cycle. I also have a boatload of SARMs, including some old bottle of 365 Ostarine caps from OL at 5mg per cap.

add this to your stack and keep your muscle in check


I was telling Renew, I have some pseudo-gyno from when I was young and dumb and did a PH cycle from Twin Labs that had DHEA and some other junk in it, but I really think it's just fatty tissue. Would using this and applying it directly to my chest and abdominal area possibly help to clear up some of the gyno and the stubborn belly fat? I'm just worried about applying it to my nipples if the solvents are pretty strong and might burn.

How often do you recommend applying it? 2x/day?
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Well, I haven't completely ruled out Anabolics yet. I was looking Msten & Tren or Trendione on the cycle. I also have a boatload of SARMs, including some old bottle of 365 Ostarine caps from OL at 5mg per cap.



I was telling Renew, I have some pseudo-gyno from when I was young and dumb and did a PH cycle from Twin Labs that had DHEA and some other junk in it, but I really think it's just fatty tissue. Would using this and applying it directly to my chest and abdominal area possibly help to clear up some of the gyno and the stubborn belly fat? I'm just worried about applying it to my nipples if the solvents are pretty strong and might burn.

How often do you recommend applying it? 2x/day?
I think you are likely right about it being some excess fat under the tit. Usually that's the case if there isn't a hard nugget under the fat. anyhow I do think this would work as you describe because its recommended n the label. Shoulders chest and upper belly are all great places to apply. I have been using synergen for a couple months strait. .. I don't even rotate the application sites. no irritation ever and not really that harsh even on the thinnest of skin.
 
Hyde

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The pseudogyno will temporarily shrink in the lower estrogen environment that stack will produce, and if you lose bodyfat overall via diet obviously this will include a reduction from that region as well, but if you regain the fat or stop the cycle expect those changes to reverse.

Speaking as someone who has pseudogyno and real gyno from puberty, has surgery to reduce, and used Kronos on a diet successfully. You will look better overall after, but the hormonal shrinking is just temporary.
 

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The pseudogyno will temporarily shrink in the lower estrogen environment that stack will produce, and if you lose bodyfat overall via diet obviously this will include a reduction from that region as well, but if you regain the fat or stop the cycle expect those changes to reverse.

Speaking as someone who has pseudogyno and real gyno from puberty, has surgery to reduce, and used Kronos on a diet successfully. You will look better overall after, but the hormonal shrinking is just temporary.
what is kronos?
 
StarScream66

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Would a growth hormone secretagogue assist me in the cycle? I've been reading more about them, and there's a lot of them. I have plenty of MK677 but I don't want the appetite stimulation and the tiredness. Are there any others that are worth looking into?
 

jrock645

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Would a growth hormone secretagogue assist me in the cycle? I've been reading more about them, and there's a lot of them. I have plenty of MK677 but I don't want the appetite stimulation and the tiredness. Are there any others that are worth looking into?
cjc w/ dac. 2mg per week
 
Renew1

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what is kronos?
 
justhere4comm

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This entire thread has been an exercise in wasting time, and nonsensical speculative cycling of various compounds.
As was mentioned previously:

What is your information?
Age:
Weight:
BF%:

Lets' begin there.
 
StarScream66

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This entire thread has been an exercise in wasting time, and nonsensical speculative cycling of various compounds.
As was mentioned previously:

What is your information?
Age:
Weight:
BF%:

Lets' begin there.
The reason I've been unable to post this info is because I've recently just moved and have misplaced my BF calipers. I'm hunting for them, but I might not be able to find them and have to pick up some more. My age is 39 and my weight is 191.
 

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