Ramping up then down?

[jackdiesel77]

I asked this a while back on another site but didnot get any feed back on it. Anyone here have any idea on this thought?

When taking a DS/PH in which people claim that they are "shut down", is there different levels of it (or is it like a light) on or off 100%? (got a few replies that said it depends on the supplement).

Now with that said is there any logic to doing a ramp up then back down say 10/20/30/20/10 to have your natural test to slowly start back up instead of just a complete stop?

 

[mixedup]

I feel once you are shut down if you still have a compound in your system even if it's a lower amount you will stay shutdown until that compound is out of your system. pyramiding was popular a looong time ago but rarely used today

 

[nosnmiveins]

I feel once you are shut down if you still have a compound in your system even if it's a lower amount you will stay shutdown until that compound is out of your system. pyramiding was popular a looong time ago but rarely used today

good info, i agree here.

 

[holyintellect]

The only way ramping down would work is if you could pinpoint the exact amount it takes to cause suppression...if you could do that, then you could ramp down and simply stay at that level until your body was back up and running again.

holy

 

[UnrealMachine]

It is very difficult to determine shutdown

my current mental model for shutdown (using orals) is like this:
shutdown "builds up" over the days at a specific rate that is dose-dependent. Increasing dose will increase the slope of this rate, decreasing dose will help the rate level out, but the shutdown will only decrease upon cessation of dose

Different doses will eventually cause shutdown to plateau at different points of severity. Probably takes a while to reach this point tho.

Now there is imo another variable, and it's that I feel there is a hormonal cycle throughout the day: shutdown increases throughout the day as you dose and then at while sleeping, natural test is at it's highest and your body makes a slight rebound by morning.

Pulsing takes advantage of the short half life to give you a day or two to rebound slightly before dosing more.


To me, ramping up dose brings about shutdown more quickly, and then decreasing the dose keeps shutdown from getting any harder; it doesn't allow your body to recover.

That said there are some steroids where it is *probably* possible to recover natural test when using small doses. This is just from people's experiments; IIRC one man used low dosed primo in PCT and still recovered well... I might have heard that EQ in low doses can allow natural test to recover as well. This is just 2nd hand tho!


Anyone want to correct my model, please feel free.

 

[thesinner]

steroids cycles are an unsteady state process.

Without going into too much detail, don't ramp back down. Gains slow down, suppression still occurs but at a slightly lesser rate.

 

[monsterbox]

dont ramp down, ramp up...as your hpta falls and your duration increases, you'll need more and more for effectiveness...when you have reached your goals, take a proper PCT. This is why people utilize HCG, SERMS, etc. Back in pre-historic times, people didn't know what PCT meant.

If you ran epistane 30,30,30,40,50,60 and stopped into a proper PCT you would probably keep more gains than if you ran 30,30,40,50,60,50,40,30,20,10 (you will just remain shutdown at the level you reached at 60mg and probably continue to shutdown more...you most likely will not gain anymore by ramping down and you'll just F up the 'ole liver a great deal more)


BTW...I don't agree with the term "shutdown", and I do not believe in ON/OFF (which would follow the term "shutdown")

People should say SUPRESSION. You can't measure what point is on/off.....I mean what is considered shutdown, 200 units of natural test or 50 units of natural test?

 

[holyintellect]

shutdown "builds up" over the days at a specific rate that is dose-dependent. Increasing dose will increase the slope of this rate, decreasing dose will help the rate level out, but the shutdown will only decrease upon cessation of dose

This is exactly what I was trying to say in my post above this...very well put. If you could pinpoint the exact dose that started suppression, you could taper down to that dose and keep using it while your body returned to its natural production. Obviously thats damn near impossible, so I dont think its a viable option.

holy

 

[jackdiesel77]

WOW lots of good info from everyone. Much better than the other site.


Thanks a lot guys!! :head: