Quit your cycle now _coronavirus

Jinsun

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So, seeing as corona is going to hit most of the world, I would seriously urge all that are not on TRT to get off cycle and all that are on TRT to stop blasting and using orals for some time.

Cycling gear doesn't help your immune system at all. High doses of androgens actually lowers it. Orals are the biggest culprits.

Corona is highly contagious, chances are you will get it. If you do not know, corona is very dangerous to those that have a compromised imune system. The virus attacks the lungs. It can either cause permanent damage (fibrosis) to your lungs and/or kill you. Either way you really do not want to get caught with it while on cycle. It's much harder getting over cold's and flu's while on cycle, but those are not dangerous. Getting caught in an epidemic while on gear and being forced to go through PCT while sick with corona ... well I really wouldn't want that for my self or anybody else.

Gym's are closing, so not much point in cycling anyway.

Not trying to scare people. But this is only starting, so quit while you are still ahead.
 
Jinsun

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no thanks im good.
Yeah. Your point of view will vary depending on what your current situation is in your country. Our schools are closed, public system is operating on a minimum, public life is deadening by the minute, public healthcare is going nuts ... as of today, all my projects, work is delayed and/or canceled (I have no work), as I am a freelancer. All that is talked about in media is coronavirus, seriously, this is all there is. It's crazy. Everybody must do their part in helping with this situation. One of them is not getting sick and/or doing your best to strenghten yourself, so you wont get to sick - if you get sick.

Once your country officially declares an epidemic, your opinion may change : ) Just saying. One day you are like, "it's okay, nothing serious" next day you're in lockdown.
 
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xR1pp3Rx

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i'm mid cycle for spring time cut. things are heating up here with the Wuhan flu as well. all the things you mention are coming to light.. Im confident in my immune system currently so I will continue to not live in fear. If it comes down to it and I think im sick I would self quarantine and try to weather it out. if you want to stock up on something usefull I would buy lots of ginger and garlic.
 
Smont

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I'm not worried about it in the slightest. I rarely ever get sick and I don't think I've ever been sick on a cycle. You can find a bunch of stuff that says steroids weaken your immune system and just as many that say they can strengthen your immune system.
 
Jinsun

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I'm not worried about it in the slightest. I rarely ever get sick and I don't think I've ever been sick on a cycle. You can find a bunch of stuff that says steroids weaken your immune system and just as many that say they can strengthen your immune system.
I usually get sick beginning of cycle, but don't get sick off cycle.
 
Jinsun

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Androgens pretty much directly impact the immune system. The more androgens you have, basically, the less immune you are.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4292726/

" Androgens exhibit immunosuppressive capabilities through their action on both lymphoid and myeloid immune cells in the periphery. "

"More recently it has become increasingly evident that androgen deprivation results in re-expansion of the involuted thymus of adult animals and men, leading to measurable changes in the pool of circulating T cells."

"It was later shown in multiple mouse models that androgen deprivation ameliorated immunosurveillance of prostate tumors by circumventing immune tolerance to tumor antigens in immunized animals. "

"We further analyzed the effects of androgen on murine and human T cell differentiation in vitro using testosterone-free culture conditions and testosterone supplementation and found that testosterone suppresses T helper type 1 (Th1) differentiation, resulting in reduced expression of Th1 markers T-bet, IFNγ, IL-12Rβ and IL-18R1. "


If somebody has any antagonistic opinions/content to this claims; please do share. I'm not much of an expert on this topic.
 
Lynks8

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I'm not worried about it in the slightest. I rarely ever get sick and I don't think I've ever been sick on a cycle. You can find a bunch of stuff that says steroids weaken your immune system and just as many that say they can strengthen your immune system.
Can you please post some of these studies showing androgens to be beneficial to one's immune system?
 

uprightrows

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The relationship between androgens and the immune system is extremely complex, and saying that test or any other AAS/SARM/anabolic decreases or increases your immune response is a complete crap shoot, especially in context of exposure to a pathogen one has no prior data on or experience with. Even with decent data, there is evidence that it both attenuates and strengthens the immune system in different scenarios.
Would I tap out mid cycle and stop? No, your hormone profile is already f*cked and I would not want to be suddenly PCTing or accelerating my PCT schedule and have even greater fluctuations in my immune system and body in general while I'm trying to make sure my HPTA still works.
Would I wait to cycle? Absolutely, most people don't have a home gym, eventually your access to food might not be ideal, really no reason to waste it.
 
Jinsun

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Would I tap out mid cycle and stop? No, your hormone profile is already f*cked and I would not want to be suddenly PCTing or accelerating my PCT schedule and have even greater fluctuations in my immune system and body in general while I'm trying to make sure my HPTA still works.
Well ... if you are already in a middle of an epidemic, Italy for example, then yes, don't PCT. Stay on a TRT dose of test. If you are not in a hot spot and/or the virus is yet to spread, then why not PCT and be ready for it when it comes? This is what I said in my OP, "quit while you are still ahead".
 
maximillia

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If all you were doing was 250mg/w of test, would you stop or decrease the dose?
 

uprightrows

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Well ... if you are already in a middle of an epidemic, Italy for example, then yes, don't PCT. Stay on a TRT dose of test. If you are not in a hot spot and/or the virus is yet to spread, then why not PCT and be ready for it when it comes? This is what I said in my OP, "quit while you are still ahead".
I guess there might be some validity to that, but how do you know you have adequate time to get your PCT done? That said it is hard to say how fast this will propagate. And yeah if you're TRT, then just stay on your TRT dose. I don't think one needs to lower their overall AAS dose or jump on PCT if they're in a stable place
 

Whisky

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I would lover it to 100mg's.
ive said this on another thread - when I feel my exposure risk is increased (pretty much around now in the uk) I’m going to drop orals and reduce to a trt dose. Absolutely don’t pct right now, regardless of where you are pct takes months and months to rebalance hormones, you don’t want additional stressors.

stuff I’ve seen on androgens and immune is that trt dose can strengthen in, blast doses can weaken it (that always seemed logical to me anyway tbh)
 
benjamfzb

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Anyone who is healthy enough to be cycling (unless they have aids and are taking gear to not fade away) will not die from it.

Overblown. People need to shut up about it. Populations too high anyway.
 
Jinsun

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Anyone who is healthy enough to be cycling (unless they have aids and are taking gear to not fade away) will not die from it.
You probably wont die. Your lungs can be damaged though. Fibrosis. Also, other organs get affected. You can have permanent liver damage. People with coronavirus have elevated liver enzimes and some have permanent damage. Imagine being on orals while infected.

The worse your immune system is, the worse the disease will be. And the more chance for serious and long term damage. Research a bit about what corona does to the body.

In all honesty, cycling in this time is just pure negligence. Period. Get on trt doses or quit. Either way; don't cycle.

Btw, you can get the virus multiple times. Depending on howuch time has passed between the infections, the second time, can be quite bad.
 
Jinsun

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You know, we talk about beeing careful, trying to prevent people from doing harm to them selfs on here all the time. This is it. Really. It's just a situation in which cycling is stupid. Idk. I care more about having healthy lungs and not suffering needlessly from a bad infection, then having a bit more mm or a bit less fat. Ymmv. It's everybody's own risk/reward equation. It's just that most aren't educated about either the virus or about what aas does to your immune system to make a proper educated decision. imo this is the problem. To each his own.
 

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Agreed. Exogenous Testosterone/AAS suppresses the immune system. This is a fact, and good advice to not cycle right now.
 

Nac

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Cant any "corona virus" or "flu" potentially progress to pneumonia? What do we know about Covid-19 in particular that makes it a unique risk for our demographic, a risk that is different to any other corona/flu virus? Anecdotally, and Im sure Im not in the minority here but Ive cycled historically whilst having colds, flu, etc etc. Meh.
 
Jinsun

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Cant any "corona virus" or "flu" potentially progress to pneumonia? What do we know about Covid-19 in particular that makes it a unique risk for our demographic, a risk that is different to any other corona/flu virus? Anecdotally, and Im sure Im not in the minority here but Ive cycled historically whilst having colds, flu, etc etc. Meh.
Corona acts in the same way on the lungs as does SARS. Your body's immune system overreacts and makes holes in your lungs. ie. fibrosis. Fyi, lungs is only one affected organ, albeit the most prominent one.
 

Nac

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Corona acts in the same way on the lungs as does SARS. Your body's immune system overreacts and makes holes in your lungs. ie. fibrosis. Fyi, lungs is only one affected organ, albeit the most prominent one.
You do realise the term "corona" refers to a whole familly of viruses?
 

Nac

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Have you got a more clarified explanation of how the virus and immune system are reacting to one another? It just seems a bit confusing, almost contradictory to claim that on one hand a compromised immune system makes one more susceptible to lung damage, and on the other that lung damage is the result of an *overreactive* immune system.

The latter claim would imply that the stronger your immune system, the worse the self-damage to lungs. Or, the weaker the immune system, the less self-damage.
 
manifesto

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Corona acts in the same way on the lungs as does SARS. Your body's immune system overreacts and makes holes in your lungs. ie. fibrosis. Fyi, lungs is only one affected organ, albeit the most prominent one.
This is similar to an autoimmune disorder like lupus, or rheumatoid arthritis...I would think an immunosuppressive drug (ie prednisone high dose, cellcept, etc...) would help....but who knows
 

timberx

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Good thing I didnt start my M-Sten cycle, gyms are closing in my country and we are about go into lockdown soon seems like.
 
manifesto

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Renew1

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Or, somebody actually takes 5 minutes and reads up on corona?
I've read up on it. But I'm not an expert.
My comment was based upon what is being stated in this thread only. And fits quite aptly with that. :)
 
Jinsun

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In short, if your immune system is strong, the virus and the illness wont progress to the stages where damage can take place in the first place. Damage starts happening at later stages, when your immune system overreacts at certain tissues in the lungs. No matter how strong your immune system was before you caught the virus, at this stage it's probably bad. And it probably doesn't need to be strong in order to cause this error, tissue selectivity to happen. And besides, if your immune system is weak, you'll just die? I mean, saying that your immune system is weakened bc of aas, and that this is a good thing, is imo a mute point one shouldn't have to argue against.

"After the SARS outbreak, the World Health Organization reported that the disease typically attacked the lungs in three phases: viral replication, immune hyper-reactivity, and pulmonary destruction.

Frieman explains that SARS loved to infect and kill cilia cells, which then sloughed off and filled patients’ airways with debris and fluids, and he hypothesizes that the same is happening with the novel coronavirus. That’s because the earliest studies on COVID-19 have shown that many patients develop pneumonia in both lungs, accompanied by symptoms like shortness of breath.

That’s when phase two and the immune system kicks in. Aroused by the presence of a viral invader, our bodies step up to fight the disease by flooding the lungs with immune cells to clear away the damage and repair the lung tissue.

When working properly, this inflammatory process is tightly regulated and confined only to infected areas. But sometimes your immune system goes haywire and those cells kill anything in their way, including your healthy tissue.
“So you get more damage instead of less from the immune response,” Frieman says. Even more debris clogs up the lungs, and pneumonia worsens.

During the third phase, lung damage continues to build—which can result in respiratory failure. Even if death doesn’t occur, some patients survive with permanent lung damage. According to the WHO, SARS punched holes in the lungs, giving them “a honeycomb-like appearance”—and these lesions are present in those afflicted by novel coronavirus, too.

These holes are likely created by the immune system’s hyperactive response, which creates scars that both protect and stiffen the lungs.

When that occurs, patients often have to be put on ventilators to assist their breathing. Meanwhile, inflammation also makes the membranes between the air sacs and blood vessels more permeable, which can fill the lungs with fluid and affect their ability to oxygenate blood.

“In severe cases, you basically flood your lungs and you can’t breathe,” Frieman says. “That’s how people are dying.
 
manifesto

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I'm taking high doses vitamin C, D, and A....and I'm healthy.

I'm not worried at all....I'm headed to the gym here in a few
 
NoAddedHmones

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YoungThor

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Or, somebody actually takes 5 minutes and reads up on corona?
I finally realized it was time to read up on corona the other day. It was right when I was planning on hopping off cycle from high blood pressure. In the article they talked about all the different health issues that greatly increase your risk of getting a severe case of the virus. High blood pressure was on the list. It was a factor in my decision to stop. I already was feeling sh1tty from high blood pressure. I don’t want to be even more unwell from contacting a virus that messes with your breathing, when I’m already breathing irregularly from high blood pressure.
 
YoungThor

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But I will say that I believe certain AAS strengthen your immune system. Deca is given to AIDS patients, and I imagine they wouldn’t prescribe it if it damaged the immune system even more. The primary reason for prescribing it might be to prevent muscle wasting, but I thought it also strengthens immune system? I could be wrong about that though.
 
Renew1

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In short, if your immune system is strong, the virus and the illness wont progress to the stages where damage can take place in the first place. Damage starts happening at later stages, when your immune system overreacts at certain tissues in the lungs. No matter how strong your immune system was before you caught the virus, at this stage it's probably bad. And it probably doesn't need to be strong in order to cause this error, tissue selectivity to happen. And besides, if your immune system is weak, you'll just die? I mean, saying that your immune system is weakened bc of aas, and that this is a good thing, is imo a mute point one shouldn't have to argue against.

"After the SARS outbreak, the World Health Organization reported that the disease typically attacked the lungs in three phases: viral replication, immune hyper-reactivity, and pulmonary destruction.

Frieman explains that SARS loved to infect and kill cilia cells, which then sloughed off and filled patients’ airways with debris and fluids, and he hypothesizes that the same is happening with the novel coronavirus. That’s because the earliest studies on COVID-19 have shown that many patients develop pneumonia in both lungs, accompanied by symptoms like shortness of breath.

That’s when phase two and the immune system kicks in. Aroused by the presence of a viral invader, our bodies step up to fight the disease by flooding the lungs with immune cells to clear away the damage and repair the lung tissue.

When working properly, this inflammatory process is tightly regulated and confined only to infected areas. But sometimes your immune system goes haywire and those cells kill anything in their way, including your healthy tissue.
“So you get more damage instead of less from the immune response,” Frieman says. Even more debris clogs up the lungs, and pneumonia worsens.

During the third phase, lung damage continues to build—which can result in respiratory failure. Even if death doesn’t occur, some patients survive with permanent lung damage. According to the WHO, SARS punched holes in the lungs, giving them “a honeycomb-like appearance”—and these lesions are present in those afflicted by novel coronavirus, too.

These holes are likely created by the immune system’s hyperactive response, which creates scars that both protect and stiffen the lungs.

When that occurs, patients often have to be put on ventilators to assist their breathing. Meanwhile, inflammation also makes the membranes between the air sacs and blood vessels more permeable, which can fill the lungs with fluid and affect their ability to oxygenate blood.

“In severe cases, you basically flood your lungs and you can’t breathe,” Frieman says. “That’s how people are dying.
... You probably already know this, but I wasn't advocating for a lower-functioning immune system. Just trying to clarify what was being presented here.

Your post contains a quote that "many" who contract the virus develop pneumonia. I'm not sure what they meant by "many", but it certainly appears that most (by far) do not develop pneumonia.

I have friends that are treating this like the end of the world, and others who are treating it like the common cold.

I don't fit into either of those categories. I just try to deal with the situation like I do any other ..... Based upon current perceived reality.
 
Jinsun

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Jinsun

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... You probably already know this, but I wasn't advocating for a lower-functioning immune system. Just trying to clarify what was being presented here.

Your post contains a quote that "many" who contract the virus develop pneumonia. I'm not sure what they meant by "many", but it certainly appears that most (by far) do not develop pneumonia.

I have friends that are treating this like the end of the world, and others who are treating it like the common cold.

I don't fit into either of those categories. I just try to deal with the situation like I do any other ..... Based upon current perceived reality.
Well yes. Me to. Until a vaccine is invented the virus will hop from one host to the other. The problem is that the immunity you develop when your body defeats the virus isn't permanent in all people. Chances are you get sick again, and again ... When you get sick for the second time, if not much time has past since the first time, it isn't pretty.

In any case what I'm much more worried about is the economy. Here everything stopped. My industry is on a pause. Everything is on a pause. This will have ripples long after the virus is defeated. But I digress ...
 
Jinsun

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Until a vaccine is invented
What's funny is that we have drugs that can treat this. They are not vaccines, but they do help very much in getting over the illness. One is an anti malaria drug, that is basically zinc, all are proven to be safe for human use ... I need to check if we are using these and who gets them.

"In late January 2020, remdesivir was administered to the first US patient to be confirmed to be infected by SARS-CoV-2, in Snohomish County, Washington, for "compassionate use" after he progressed to pneumonia. While no broad conclusions were made based on the single treatment, the patient's condition improved dramatically the next day,[7] and he was eventually discharged.[19]

Also in late January 2020, Chinese medical researchers stated to the media that in exploratory research considering a selection of 30 drug candidates, remdesivir and two other drugs, chloroquine and lopinavir/ritonavir, seemed to have "fairly good inhibitory effects" on SARS-CoV-2 at the cellular level. Requests to start clinical testing were submitted.[20][21] On February 6, 2020, a clinical trial of remdesivir began in China.[22]"
 

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Virus like the flu, sars, and Covid cause problems when the body compensates for the inflammation they cause on lung tissue, as stated. I would think that therapeutic doses of deca or anavar would help due to the anti inflammatory properties, no? I have asthma / allergies and when I run 80 mg of deca with my TRT dose I have zero symptoms, not to mention joints feeling great. Anavar was developed for burn victims. I would think they could be useful in the right doses. I have no plans of coming off TRT or lowering my dose. I feel I am healthier with T levels in upper end of normal
 

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