Question sort of trt, but also about total test levels.

jtbull

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Ok all. I have posted b4 on being on Trt as well a a couple cycles i ran ( blast and cruise. I started test in February 2019 with my eurologist. Lnog story short I was treated with clomid before as I was trying to have children nd was on it since middle 30s.

SO i started out at 200mg every 10 days ( i knkow it sucked) all my numbers were fine and no issues. Then I think in my summer appoint around sept i asked him if i could go in 200 a week as my levels were running 890 and he mentioned they did not worry until you were over 1100 and he was fine with that.

Faste foreward july this year. I got my blood work back I can get exast numbers but my red blood cells, hemocrati and hemoglobain were all high. Not huge but high enough. Obviously donating blood would be good and when they went over numbers with me in feb 2020 they mentioned it but it was not too important and total test levels were 1229 they were not "too concerned"

Ok so last bloods i got. My test leavels still on 200mg a week ( test c) was like 1669 or so and for some reason I think my free was 500 but that sounds high. If its outrageous i will try to double check. The red blood cells were 6.81 hemocrit was 59.8 and hemoglobin was 19.6. NOw they were very similar in march and I was told "maybe just give blood" well if everyone recalls there was a pandemic and it was not the easiest thing to do. I also dont drive and my wife is at risk since she had lung issues in teh past. Now my wife was told on a machine message that i was in "danger of a fatal stroke within weeks". now i figured the issue might have been teh blood stuff but most people told me donating blood ( never did b4 ) woudl clear all that up. my bp was not ultra high but i was put on high blood meds by my doc. SHe really was not concerned about bp because she said i was not working out since march when she saw me in september and said that could be the reason. So i am on lipronsonil? It is one of the few that dont cause ed and she said it actually can help with issues with anabolics.

So they sent me to a hemotolgist and they ran blood work to ensure i did not have this genetic issue taht keeps one of those numbers really high. So after trying to gett ahold of them we were talking to them and i have been off trt for going on two months. So i was wondering what the issue is. I thought it was the blood issues. Teh nurse told me it was how high the test levels were. Now my thought was they simply could lower the dosage but now they have me with a hemotologist and are "waiting on him" Which is annoying.

So here is what i am wondering. I know when guys cycle ( some longer than 20 weeks) test levels easily can get in 5000 range and often those guys are taking others. I was just taking test and my last cycle ended january and was only like 500mg sust. So if you have lets just say 1600 0r 1700 for a year is that going to cause a stroke or were they bullshitting me? I have mention most of the nurses and PA there are like "OMG he might put 1/2 inch on his biceps'" but i thougth I would ask if It was bull and since I plan on doing some cycles again i wanted to check up. Now i idid not take any protection but now am on blood pressure meds and figure i will take some sort of cycel support stuff in the mean time. Any other advice is appreciated. Since they took me off ( i have very low t) and i feel like ****. Very low energy and stuff. I told my wife i am trying to go by the doctors but might consider doing it on my own if they keep playing f*cking games. I see the urologist who is often cool and aware i run cycles in two weeks. Getting bloods this week and donating blood again the 26th of october.
 
Nac

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I read up til "hcrit 59.8"

Holy fuk bro. Whats your platelets? If he thinks its appropriate, your doc can order a phlebotomy for you ASAP?
 
Renew1

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Ok all. I have posted b4 on being on Trt as well a a couple cycles i ran ( blast and cruise. I started test in February 2019 with my eurologist. Lnog story short I was treated with clomid before as I was trying to have children nd was on it since middle 30s.

SO i started out at 200mg every 10 days ( i knkow it sucked) all my numbers were fine and no issues. Then I think in my summer appoint around sept i asked him if i could go in 200 a week as my levels were running 890 and he mentioned they did not worry until you were over 1100 and he was fine with that.

Faste foreward july this year. I got my blood work back I can get exast numbers but my red blood cells, hemocrati and hemoglobain were all high. Not huge but high enough. Obviously donating blood would be good and when they went over numbers with me in feb 2020 they mentioned it but it was not too important and total test levels were 1229 they were not "too concerned"

Ok so last bloods i got. My test leavels still on 200mg a week ( test c) was like 1669 or so and for some reason I think my free was 500 but that sounds high. If its outrageous i will try to double check. The red blood cells were 6.81 hemocrit was 59.8 and hemoglobin was 19.6. NOw they were very similar in march and I was told "maybe just give blood" well if everyone recalls there was a pandemic and it was not the easiest thing to do. I also dont drive and my wife is at risk since she had lung issues in teh past. Now my wife was told on a machine message that i was in "danger of a fatal stroke within weeks". now i figured the issue might have been teh blood stuff but most people told me donating blood ( never did b4 ) woudl clear all that up. my bp was not ultra high but i was put on high blood meds by my doc. SHe really was not concerned about bp because she said i was not working out since march when she saw me in september and said that could be the reason. So i am on lipronsonil? It is one of the few that dont cause ed and she said it actually can help with issues with anabolics.

So they sent me to a hemotolgist and they ran blood work to ensure i did not have this genetic issue taht keeps one of those numbers really high. So after trying to gett ahold of them we were talking to them and i have been off trt for going on two months. So i was wondering what the issue is. I thought it was the blood issues. Teh nurse told me it was how high the test levels were. Now my thought was they simply could lower the dosage but now they have me with a hemotologist and are "waiting on him" Which is annoying.

So here is what i am wondering. I know when guys cycle ( some longer than 20 weeks) test levels easily can get in 5000 range and often those guys are taking others. I was just taking test and my last cycle ended january and was only like 500mg sust. So if you have lets just say 1600 0r 1700 for a year is that going to cause a stroke or were they bullshitting me? I have mention most of the nurses and PA there are like "OMG he might put 1/2 inch on his biceps'" but i thougth I would ask if It was bull and since I plan on doing some cycles again i wanted to check up. Now i idid not take any protection but now am on blood pressure meds and figure i will take some sort of cycel support stuff in the mean time. Any other advice is appreciated. Since they took me off ( i have very low t) and i feel like ****. Very low energy and stuff. I told my wife i am trying to go by the doctors but might consider doing it on my own if they keep playing f*cking games. I see the urologist who is often cool and aware i run cycles in two weeks. Getting bloods this week and donating blood again the 26th of october.

Who left a message on your machine about you being in "danger of a fatal stroke within weeks" ?????


.... And if you were at 1229, Why didn't they back you down some, since their threshold for risk of stroke is not too far over that???
 
Codybenz

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That’s a lot to unpack. But basically Total levels are not directly responsible for a stroke. Having too high of hematocrit levels for too long could possibly cause an issue. This is probably a result of being on too much Test for too long. Could be other reasons like sleep apnea but doubtful.

second in my personal opinion your test levels are too high for an actual TRT protocol. Assuming you are getting bloods drawn 7 days after your injection with test cyp, which is when your blood should be drawn, all of those number are too high for long term trt. Even the 890.

why you may ask, well total test number is a little different with someone on trt. Total test taken for someone that is natural let’s say it’s 800, that persons total test will always average and be around 800. With normal flunctustions of course.

however someone on TRT that pops an 890 on day 7, well this is considered your trough level, meaning it’s at its lowest point but was much higher for most of the week following an injection of exogenous test. You are probably outside normal range most of the week. Which again isn’t the greatest for safe long term trt.
 

jtbull

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I read up til "hcrit 59.8"

Holy fuk bro. Whats your platelets? If he thinks its appropriate, your doc can order a phlebotomy for you ASAP?
Yeah but normal is like 50 isnt it? I mean that is not going to kill more or stomething is it?
 
Nac

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Yeah but normal is like 50 isnt it? I mean that is not going to kill more or stomething is it?
You dont really want it over 55 for extended periods (for most people its in high 40s, low 50s at most). Especially if platelets are high as well. Im not trying to be alarmist or unnecessarily freak you out; but as you know the numbers represent ideal ranges and outside of that your risk increases, depending on other factors (such as platelets...its indicative of clotting risk).
 

jtbull

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Thanks guys. I forget the numbers but platelets have been fine. I figured my trt dose might have been too high but i am sure all those numbers are high on actual cycles hence my confusion. Cant donate blood again till oct 26th i think SO if my hemocrti and stuff is too high how in the hell am i supposed to get muscles and how am i supposed do cycles? I was going to do 16 weeks but figure i might do 10 weeks thing is i likely mostly will use test eq or dea. now eq most say you dont want to run less than 16 weeks but i hear lots of guys do it. Also thougth of oral kickstarter.

Also if anyone has similar issues and i am sure i am not the only one please feel free to pm me on how you blast and cruise. I gather my cruise dose needs to be lower. I do have to time my blasts though as i get bloods for trt doc every 6 months. Now i undesrand that deca and eq will not raise test levels but have been told eq particularly will increase red bloods but again blood donating seems like what i need to be doing and i am.

am i better off using low test say 300 for a cycle and runnign higher deca and or eq?

Also any vitimins or herbals or anything that anyoen advise through out the cycles and while on trt? I am aware that while on orals i should be on tudca, nac and or a good all in one like the 5% organ shield.

If anyone is a coach on this stuff i welcome input. I really cant afford to pay a lot for coaching though as i am on a fixed income from concussion issues from when I was much younger.
 
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Nac

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EQ is one of the absolute worse compounds for someone to run with high hcrit. And anadrol. Bro you need to get that sh1t under control before blasting again. Its arguable how much donating will lower it from 59, if you then continue to blast gear you will likely be going around in circles.
 

jtbull

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EQ is one of the absolute worse compounds for someone to run with high hcrit. And anadrol. Bro you need to get that sh1t under control before blasting again. Its arguable how much donating will lower it from 59, if you then continue to blast gear you will likely be going around in circles.
**** i was trying not to have my cycling days over before they end. . I know it was not always high like when i was on clomid. I mean now i would even be happy with the damn trt because of how crappy i feel i mean no energy no nothing. I might just run low test and test on a blast say 200/200 and then cruise at likely 100-150 is what he will give me. I just cant believe i am so damn abnormal with this ****.
 

jtbull

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sorry hemocrit after donating blood was 52. 9 hemoglobin was 17.6 ( normal) and rbc is 6.18 platelets were 267. I know this id dumb gto ask guys but i really need help here. I know i am running risks but i cant stop. I need to look good. I hate to say this but i cant live without my muscles. I am in an unappy marraige and if i do ever leave it being in shape helps me havre confidence. I mean i thought i could also just do trt and maybe proviron. I am really lookin gor some help on cycles that wont damange much. What about sdrol, dmz, or mstem for a starter?
 
Hyde

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You have been given all of the info you need already; it’s no longer so complicated.

You dropped from 59 to 52 hematocrit with a couple months off your hotrod TRT dose and a donation. So you now know that time off blasting and regular donations will keep your blood values healthy. That’s great.

So just avoid compounds like EQ and Anadrol that are particularly good at raising RBC, or overdoing test for too long. Deca would certainly be a better option than EQ. Your TRT probably needs to be 100-150mg weekly if you return to it, with doctor or self-medicated (worst case scenario). Make sure you get that donation on 10/26 and stay up on your bloodwork while blasting.

You should be taking Vitamin K2/Mk7 at ideally 180mcg daily to help prevent atherosclerosis, 100mg Ubiquinol (200mg once over 40 is the medical recommendation) to replenish CoQ10 levels, 700-1,000mg Curcumin with added black pepper extract/Bioperine to help reverse left ventricular hypertrophy and help thin blood, and 5,000iu of D3 is never a bad idea for most. These are daily heart health supps.

On cycle, I would add a couple caps of Nattokinase divided over the day as well.
 

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You have been given all of the info you need already; it’s no longer so complicated.

You dropped from 59 to 52 hematocrit with a couple months off your hotrod TRT dose and a donation. So you now know that time off blasting and regular donations will keep your blood values healthy. That’s great.

So just avoid compounds like EQ and Anadrol that are particularly good at raising RBC, or overdoing test for too long. Deca would certainly be a better option than EQ. Your TRT probably needs to be 100-150mg weekly if you return to it, with doctor or self-medicated (worst case scenario). Make sure you get that donation on 10/26 and stay up on your bloodwork while blasting.

You should be taking Vitamin K2/Mk7 at ideally 180mcg daily to help prevent atherosclerosis, 100mg Ubiquinol (200mg once over 40 is the medical recommendation) to replenish CoQ10 levels, 700-1,000mg Curcumin with added black pepper extract/Bioperine to help reverse left ventricular hypertrophy and help thin blood, and 5,000iu of D3 is never a bad idea for most. These are daily heart health supps.

On cycle, I would add a couple caps of Nattokinase divided over the day as well.
I do all these things (k2 after you mentioned it sometime back)......

trt (well cruise as it’s not prescribed) at 160mg which puts me right at the top of range (Last time I checked). Getting bloods in the next few weeks (when medichecks put a sale on), will post up for reference on the effectiveness (or otherwise) of the supplementation.

no history of anything out of range as standard but been on over a year now so should be interesting
 

jtbull

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You have been given all of the info you need already; it’s no longer so complicated.

You dropped from 59 to 52 hematocrit with a couple months off your hotrod TRT dose and a donation. So you now know that time off blasting and regular donations will keep your blood values healthy. That’s great.

So just avoid compounds like EQ and Anadrol that are particularly good at raising RBC, or overdoing test for too long. Deca would certainly be a better option than EQ. Your TRT probably needs to be 100-150mg weekly if you return to it, with doctor or self-medicated (worst case scenario). Make sure you get that donation on 10/26 and stay up on your bloodwork while blasting.

You should be taking Vitamin K2/Mk7 at ideally 180mcg daily to help prevent atherosclerosis, 100mg Ubiquinol (200mg once over 40 is the medical recommendation) to replenish CoQ10 levels, 700-1,000mg Curcumin with added black pepper extract/Bioperine to help reverse left ventricular hypertrophy and help thin blood, and 5,000iu of D3 is never a bad idea for most. These are daily heart health supps.

On cycle, I would add a couple caps of Nattokinase divided over the day as well.
Thank you much. Not too familar with some of them items you mentioned but i was figuring the eq would likely be out. I am trying to figure out what to use as an oral starter as no one said dboll was a no no. I like my hair so primo and masteron are likely out and i am not ready for tren yet. I thnk the 6th week of a blast is when i was told to get bloods. I just have to figure out how many weeks to run as the trt doc does bloods twice a year every 6 months and i want to ensure i am not on cycle or close to one when he does it. I am guessing all those vitamins are not hard to find so i will add them daily unless they are not meant to be taken daily? I am guessin with an oral dbol or tbol i should still take tudca or organ shiled or something while on the 4-6 week oral?

I am figuring blasts will be 10-16 weeks depending on how bloods show up.......funny thing is i did not hear about guys in the 70s falling dead and they were using much higher doses than anything i did and then on top of that they did not know about all the extra with it.

next cycle will likely look like this without eq and it sucks as i have a good bit.

weeks 1-6 or 1-4 30m dbol day
week 1-12 test 300 week
week 1-12 deca 400 week

How does that look

I will keep updated on what is going on.
 
Nac

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The thing with guys in the 70s not falling dead...the bodybuilding/AAS demographic is unarguably much larger now. Its innevitable that the sub-demographic "susceptible to significant health complications" is bigger now too. Just be proactive and not complacent.
 
BCseacow83

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" how in the hell am i supposed to get muscles "
"i was trying not to have my cycling days over before they end."
"I know i am running risks but i cant stop. I need to look good. I hate to say this but i cant live without my muscles. I am in an unappy marraige and if i do ever leave it being in shape helps me havre confidence"

I am not trying to be a dick but the above are issues far deeper than low endo test levels. If you are miserable blasting and cruising are not the answer, and I AM a HUGE PROPONENT of proper hormone use. You may or may not be highly susceptible to the RBC increasing effects of test. If I was you this is what I would do:

Donate one more time, double red blood cell.
Start a 20mg/day TRT. A lower daily dose keeps levels far more stable and often with less sides. After 3 months check RBC count. If you have not rebounded then you have found the correct dose for true TRT.

As far as blasting it is not out of the question but you need to figure out how to use testosterone, the ONLY HORMONE YOU ACTUALLY NEED medically, before you start throwing other compounds into the mix. Once you figure out how to run your TRT while keeping health markers in normal range you could introduce ONE compound at a time. This allows you to track how the additional drug affects your lab values. If you toss two in and your RBC's skyrocket how will you know what is doing what?


STOP comparing yourself to guys who run large cycles without "sides." First how many of them are actually getting labs and know they are in range, very few. Second just because some are careless and get away with it does not mean you can. Everyone knows someone who smoked packs a day and lived to 90+ but that is hardly proof that smoking is an acceptable practice health-wise.

OP you will BE FINE. Get your hormonal health squared away and then start working on all the other areas of your life that you are not satisfied with. IMO your original doc allowing a test level of 1600 is absurd, I would look for a new doctor. PM me if you want more help.
 
Renew1

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" how in the hell am i supposed to get muscles "
"i was trying not to have my cycling days over before they end."
"I know i am running risks but i cant stop. I need to look good. I hate to say this but i cant live without my muscles. I am in an unappy marraige and if i do ever leave it being in shape helps me havre confidence"

I am not trying to be a dick but the above are issues far deeper than low endo test levels. If you are miserable blasting and cruising are not the answer, and I AM a HUGE PROPONENT of proper hormone use. You may or may not be highly susceptible to the RBC increasing effects of test. If I was you this is what I would do:

Donate one more time, double red blood cell.
Start a 20mg/day TRT. A lower daily dose keeps levels far more stable and often with less sides. After 3 months check RBC count. If you have not rebounded then you have found the correct dose for true TRT.

As far as blasting it is not out of the question but you need to figure out how to use testosterone, the ONLY HORMONE YOU ACTUALLY NEED medically, before you start throwing other compounds into the mix. Once you figure out how to run your TRT while keeping health markers in normal range you could introduce ONE compound at a time. This allows you to track how the additional drug affects your lab values. If you toss two in and your RBC's skyrocket how will you know what is doing what?


STOP comparing yourself to guys who run large cycles without "sides." First how many of them are actually getting labs and know they are in range, very few. Second just because some are careless and get away with it does not mean you can. Everyone knows someone who smoked packs a day and lived to 90+ but that is hardly proof that smoking is an acceptable practice health-wise.

OP you will BE FINE. Get your hormonal health squared away and then start working on all the other areas of your life that you are not satisfied with. IMO your original doc allowing a test level of 1600 is absurd, I would look for a new doctor. PM me if you want more help.

^^^ Great Advice. ^^^
 
Hyde

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I do all these things (k2 after you mentioned it sometime back)......

trt (well cruise as it’s not prescribed) at 160mg which puts me right at the top of range (Last time I checked). Getting bloods in the next few weeks (when medichecks put a sale on), will post up for reference on the effectiveness (or otherwise) of the supplementation.

no history of anything out of range as standard but been on over a year now so should be interesting
The thing about these supplements, aside from vitamin D levels which are easily checked, is that you won’t necessarily be able to see them in the bloodwork. K2 is used to help the body regulate blood clotting & as well as when it calcifies bones (a good thing) as well as avoiding laying down calcium in arteries (a very bad thing), so you would need something like a coronary calcium scan to score that and see if there has been any buildup. Curcumin has anti-cancer properties, slows or in some cases reverses growth of the left ventricle, and coq10 is well...not something measured by a normal CMP.

Nattokinase you should see lower LDL & trigs, and reduced platelets.

Thank you much. Not too familar with some of them items you mentioned but i was figuring the eq would likely be out. I am trying to figure out what to use as an oral starter as no one said dboll was a no no. I like my hair so primo and masteron are likely out and i am not ready for tren yet. I thnk the 6th week of a blast is when i was told to get bloods. I just have to figure out how many weeks to run as the trt doc does bloods twice a year every 6 months and i want to ensure i am not on cycle or close to one when he does it. I am guessing all those vitamins are not hard to find so i will add them daily unless they are not meant to be taken daily? I am guessin with an oral dbol or tbol i should still take tudca or organ shiled or something while on the 4-6 week oral?

I am figuring blasts will be 10-16 weeks depending on how bloods show up.......funny thing is i did not hear about guys in the 70s falling dead and they were using much higher doses than anything i did and then on top of that they did not know about all the extra with it.

next cycle will likely look like this without eq and it sucks as i have a good bit.

weeks 1-6 or 1-4 30m dbol day
week 1-12 test 300 week
week 1-12 deca 400 week

How does that look

I will keep updated on what is going on.
When I said, “these are daily heart health supps,” that means you take them daily. Like all the time, every day you wake up, unless advised otherwise by your actual medical practitioner.

You should take TUDCA/NAC when using orals if you can afford to, yes. They are very good for your health, and orals are particularly bad for it. They improve lipid and glucose metabolism, liver health, glutathione levels, and likely other things I don’t understand.
 

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Just did bloods today. Still off trt. Someone asked about my platelets and I think high are 400> Highest mine ever were was 267 and this time they are 220

RBC 5.58 hemoglobin 15.9. Hemocrit 47.1 So they are all in normal range it appears and have gone down since i have donated blood as each time since ( sept 5 or 6th i think) they did bloods it went down.


Now the Hemotolosgist mentioned last time something he saw he did not like with my blood iron and this one is new so I am hoping its nto a big deal. i cant think of anything i eat with lots of iron in it. I do use a multi with 100% of iron so i will get a multi without iron. If anyone has reccomendations please let me know

Iron is 183mcg/dl and range is ( 40-150) this went down from 231 mcb/dl

Ferritin is 614ng/ml range is (30-400) now this went up since august and i did give blood sept it was 481

So the iron stuff has me confused as hell and hpoing no major issue other than making sure i take less in.
 
Renew1

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Just did bloods today. Still off trt. Someone asked about my platelets and I think high are 400> Highest mine ever were was 267 and this time they are 220

RBC 5.58 hemoglobin 15.9. Hemocrit 47.1 So they are all in normal range it appears and have gone down since i have donated blood as each time since ( sept 5 or 6th i think) they did bloods it went down.


Now the Hemotolosgist mentioned last time something he saw he did not like with my blood iron and this one is new so I am hoping its nto a big deal. i cant think of anything i eat with lots of iron in it. I do use a multi with 100% of iron so i will get a multi without iron. If anyone has reccomendations please let me know

Iron is 183mcg/dl and range is ( 40-150) this went down from 231 mcb/dl

Ferritin is 614ng/ml range is (30-400) now this went up since august and i did give blood sept it was 481

So the iron stuff has me confused as hell and hpoing no major issue other than making sure i take less in.
The multi with no iron sounds like the best first step to me (ASAP).
 

jtbull

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" how in the hell am i supposed to get muscles "
"i was trying not to have my cycling days over before they end."
"I know i am running risks but i cant stop. I need to look good. I hate to say this but i cant live without my muscles. I am in an unappy marraige and if i do ever leave it being in shape helps me havre confidence"

I am not trying to be a dick but the above are issues far deeper than low endo test levels. If you are miserable blasting and cruising are not the answer, and I AM a HUGE PROPONENT of proper hormone use. You may or may not be highly susceptible to the RBC increasing effects of test. If I was you this is what I would do:

Donate one more time, double red blood cell.
Start a 20mg/day TRT. A lower daily dose keeps levels far more stable and often with less sides. After 3 months check RBC count. If you have not rebounded then you have found the correct dose for true TRT.

As far as blasting it is not out of the question but you need to figure out how to use testosterone, the ONLY HORMONE YOU ACTUALLY NEED medically, before you start throwing other compounds into the mix. Once you figure out how to run your TRT while keeping health markers in normal range you could introduce ONE compound at a time. This allows you to track how the additional drug affects your lab values. If you toss two in and your RBC's skyrocket how will you know what is doing what?


STOP comparing yourself to guys who run large cycles without "sides." First how many of them are actually getting labs and know they are in range, very few. Second just because some are careless and get away with it does not mean you can. Everyone knows someone who smoked packs a day and lived to 90+ but that is hardly proof that smoking is an acceptable practice health-wise.

OP you will BE FINE. Get your hormonal health squared away and then start working on all the other areas of your life that you are not satisfied with. IMO your original doc allowing a test level of 1600 is absurd, I would look for a new doctor. PM me if you want more help.
Thanks bro i appreciate it and i likely will as I have been looking for some advice. For what its worth i was in the 860 or so range and he was not worried at 200mg every 10 days. I asked about 200mg. He said my levels were not thorugh the roof so he had no issues. THe first ime they did it i was 1200 something and it was high but i think i got bloods too quick after the shot. The 1600 spooked everyone on that dose including me. Now i was also told i was "responding" well from a bodybuiling perspective. I would look for one but here ( delaware) seem most docs hate test and usually try to pass of creams and i cant afford those clinics as I dont mind hte doctor fee but seems the fees are they overcharge for the suppllies. but I am going to check into it. When i was first concerned the consensus was give blood and seems that has helped out and i plan to do long term. I was the guy that natural was always accused of doing steroids so i guess that had me figuring i would get pretty good results. I am still hopeful but taking very slower as you advise. I think npp or deca ( i have a blend by a company that has been around for awhile) and if things stay down with rbc I think i might use the eq i have eventaully as i was told it does not really expire but once i am done with it i doubt i will use anymore of it. Since i dont compete i figure deca/ test and eventually oral kickstarter should be fine for my goals. Thanks for the help and "tough love"
 

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Thought of something more for my reference. Are there peptides the would help in the meantime or are most of them going to raise those same issues? I have heard of some that more help with burning fat like one of the ghrp 2 5 or 6 i think. Sometimes Gh is found an an ok price, but I worry that would be more likely to cause issues with those numbers. With the price of mk677 i am not sure if it will benefit more than peptides. Thanks for all the help guys. This stuff is rather confusing. The good ole 80s when things were much more openly talked about in person likely i would be able to have gotten more info. Most of the blood work has cheered me up, but
 
MadStax

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Just drink a ton of water, eat right, and avoid things that damage the liver like alcohol and pain meds. Throwing all these extra pills at could be problems to solve them is compounding other problems most of the time. If you encounter a real problem, address it at that time. Til then, keep in trudging along being smart and safe.
 

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OK guys update. See post #19 for results of my last bloods. Just got my appointment with my urologist. Since I have been off test total test was 274 which means my body still produces decent as that is about where it was when i was first treated for low T over 10 years ago. free was 8.49 E2 17.9

Ok So I go to my appointment with my doc. He has always been great has some patients who are low t from steroids before and a couple still do masters. He is aware of blasting and cruising but does not want tests coming to him with high levels.

I wrote about how crappy I had felt and mean it was dad. No energy. I already have some depression issues and this crap super charged them. Well apparently my doc WAS NOT AWARE I was taken off test. He was PISSED. He said no one is losing a job but it appears a nurse or nurse practictioner made the call. Now they are all females and many have issues with test like my levels being that high he was like "Yeah we want to lower them but I am not going to run over the covers in my room weeping to hide. We never just take you off it unless its eminent health threat and this was not. We lower the dosage and send you to the hemotologist" He also gave me a special nurse number to get ahold of him. He told me to restart and start at 100mg per week. I am waiting till Sunday only because its easiest for me to recall doing them that day.

I think its 2 weeks he told me to get bloods drawn and he specifically wants them on Wednesday of the week i get them. Now I am wondering with a couple cycles under my belt what are thoughts on how long to wait to start a cycle. My next appointment is in late aprile. So i figure I can run at least 1 12-16 week cycle in there. I am figuring since I have test only I will either do a test/deca 200-400 each. The only thing I am debating is to use a 6 week dbol kick starter. Anyone ever do a 4 week dbol kickstarter. I also am going to order some of the supplements mentioned. I am still interested in EQ. My doc said likely having the test level that high that long combined with never giving blood that whole time could be the issue more than a tendency for high red blood cells ect.

So suffice to say I feel much better. I am sure some of it has been in my head and I have felt better since I heard that from him. The nurse made it out like I was weeks away from death. The doctor also mentioned some of his patients he advises to take a baby aprin a day ( eca stack anyone) if they have thicker blood and i am figuring on running the ECA stak with it. I do still have two bottles of primeval cardarine. i forget the purpose with a cylce but if its in between or during but I may just run that.

I appreciate all the good words guys and advice and help.
 
Hyde

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I’m glad you got put back on a sensible TRT dose and doc is on board and looking out for you now.

And yes, some people have run Dbol for 4 weeks

I just read that a cap of Nattokinase daily appears to be more effective in studies than baby aspirin, without the potential stomach bleeding.
 
Nac

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If its purely gainz youre after, mg for mg test+deca would be better than test+EQ. And given your current situation with RBCs (which have a loooong a$$ half life) Id be leaning even more toward deca and away from EQ. At least for the near future.
 
Renew1

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OK guys update. See post #19 for results of my last bloods. Just got my appointment with my urologist. Since I have been off test total test was 274 which means my body still produces decent as that is about where it was when i was first treated for low T over 10 years ago. free was 8.49 E2 17.9

Ok So I go to my appointment with my doc. He has always been great has some patients who are low t from steroids before and a couple still do masters. He is aware of blasting and cruising but does not want tests coming to him with high levels.

I wrote about how crappy I had felt and mean it was dad. No energy. I already have some depression issues and this crap super charged them. Well apparently my doc WAS NOT AWARE I was taken off test. He was PISSED. He said no one is losing a job but it appears a nurse or nurse practictioner made the call. Now they are all females and many have issues with test like my levels being that high he was like "Yeah we want to lower them but I am not going to run over the covers in my room weeping to hide. We never just take you off it unless its eminent health threat and this was not. We lower the dosage and send you to the hemotologist" He also gave me a special nurse number to get ahold of him. He told me to restart and start at 100mg per week. I am waiting till Sunday only because its easiest for me to recall doing them that day.

I think its 2 weeks he told me to get bloods drawn and he specifically wants them on Wednesday of the week i get them. Now I am wondering with a couple cycles under my belt what are thoughts on how long to wait to start a cycle. My next appointment is in late aprile. So i figure I can run at least 1 12-16 week cycle in there. I am figuring since I have test only I will either do a test/deca 200-400 each. The only thing I am debating is to use a 6 week dbol kick starter. Anyone ever do a 4 week dbol kickstarter. I also am going to order some of the supplements mentioned. I am still interested in EQ. My doc said likely having the test level that high that long combined with never giving blood that whole time could be the issue more than a tendency for high red blood cells ect.

So suffice to say I feel much better. I am sure some of it has been in my head and I have felt better since I heard that from him. The nurse made it out like I was weeks away from death. The doctor also mentioned some of his patients he advises to take a baby aprin a day ( eca stack anyone) if they have thicker blood and i am figuring on running the ECA stak with it. I do still have two bottles of primeval cardarine. i forget the purpose with a cylce but if its in between or during but I may just run that.

I appreciate all the good words guys and advice and help.
I'm glad to hear that man.
(It's common sense).

He needs to make sure his employees understand that is NOT how he runs his healthcare business.
 

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I'm glad to hear that man.
(It's common sense).

He needs to make sure his employees understand that is NOT how he runs his healthcare business.
yeah he was really pissed about that and said he was going to be having a "serious discussion" No one was losing a job or anything but he was very ticked. He also gave me a special ext to get to his nurse so it does not go through levels and gets direclty to him.

Not 100% sure yet on next cycle. Next "drug test" for my levels for him and he knows that i do but needs them normal is late april. so debating on when to run my next cycle. Have a couple ideas as I stated.

Right now I am going to be looking at the list of supplements some guys here and on another forum recommended.. I am going to pick up a bottle of organ and liver guard by rich piana or tudca and nac i guess. If someone has a good all in one please feel free, but I pretty much Think its back to go. I was worried about eq expiring and i was told even if it says 2021 it will not hurt to use. I ahve some eq test mix and then 2 10ml vials of eq 500mg. I was wondering since peope mention eq is weak at lower dosages just to keep from wasting it is there any benefit to using say 125mg a week on trt with test? I have heard of guys running 100-300mg of primo with trt. Damn i am so freaking relieve. Guys when i got my flu shot i was so damn excited i asked "Can i do it"
 

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Oh guys sorry forgot to ask. Those vitamins like k2 adn others are there certain times i need to take them or just in the morning with the rest of my medications.....Just in case anyone knows a red flag i am missing i do take bp med lisinopril for Bp. Family doc provided it to me as she said it benefits me on cycle anyway plus my bp was just a tad high the last couple times she ran it. She was not too scared but said better safe than sorry. She figured it could have been since i was not at the gym all that time during covid and at the time gained about 9lbs since lost and then some. I also take tricor and have had high tryglycerides since like 30ish years old and it was not from the gear.
 
Renew1

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yeah he was really pissed about that and said he was going to be having a "serious discussion" No one was losing a job or anything but he was very ticked. He also gave me a special ext to get to his nurse so it does not go through levels and gets direclty to him.

Not 100% sure yet on next cycle. Next "drug test" for my levels for him and he knows that i do but needs them normal is late april. so debating on when to run my next cycle. Have a couple ideas as I stated.

Right now I am going to be looking at the list of supplements some guys here and on another forum recommended.. I am going to pick up a bottle of organ and liver guard by rich piana or tudca and nac i guess. If someone has a good all in one please feel free, but I pretty much Think its back to go. I was worried about eq expiring and i was told even if it says 2021 it will not hurt to use. I ahve some eq test mix and then 2 10ml vials of eq 500mg. I was wondering since peope mention eq is weak at lower dosages just to keep from wasting it is there any benefit to using say 125mg a week on trt with test? I have heard of guys running 100-300mg of primo with trt. Damn i am so freaking relieve. Guys when i got my flu shot i was so damn excited i asked "Can i do it"
If you're talking about running low Eq off cycle with TRT, No .... I would definitely advise against that.
Guard your "off time" man, and keep it to legitimate TRT only, for your own good.
 
Nac

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Bro whats the obsession with EQ? Its a drug with very specific outcomes, its utility is largely based on its capacity to dramatically increase RBC production. I dont understand why youd be even wanting to do that right now. Again, the active lifespan of RBC is over 100 days. Having a phlebotomy whilst on EQ totally defeats the purpose of using it (outside of planned measures of control, of course).
 
Hyde

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Off time is off time. Nothing but true TRT test if you want to optimize your health. You start doing stupid **** like adding eq and you WILL get dangerous blood values over time. There are dumb dumbs adding orals and **** to their cruise...so then they don’t get the time off to actually improve bloods AND don’t get as many gains when they go back on.

Don’t split the difference. Then you are just on a shitty ineffective cycle all the time. When you are cruising, you’re cruising. When it’s time to blast, floor it. It’s a light switch scenario.
 

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Thanks guys got ya. Figuring ill run deca on first cycle. Check bloods and go from there. Caber is just so damn expensive. I know b6 can help. I am hoping i am not sensative to prolactin
 
Hyde

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Thanks guys got ya. Figuring ill run deca on first cycle. Check bloods and go from there. Caber is just so damn expensive. I know b6 can help. I am hoping i am not sensative to prolactin
You only need 0.25 or 0.5mg of Caber every 4-5 days (it has a long half-life). So the cost per day is actually much more reasonable than it first appears.
 

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You only need 0.25 or 0.5mg of Caber every 4-5 days (it has a long half-life). So the cost per day is actually much more reasonable than it first appears.
ok i thought you needed .5mg 2 times per week. I got wrong info. is that something easy to find i can get advice on or is it like an anabolic? I was told not everyone will need it particularly at lower dosages like 200-400 mg is that accurate?
 
Hyde

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ok i thought you needed .5mg 2 times per week. I got wrong info. is that something easy to find i can get advice on or is it like an anabolic? I was told not everyone will need it particularly at lower dosages like 200-400 mg is that accurate?
That is my understanding. I am super sensitive to 19-nor compounds and already have higher baseline prolactin levels, but there are definitely guys who can use lower doses without gyno or sexual issues, just like you are saying.

Caber is honestly hard to find, for me at least.
 

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That is my understanding. I am super sensitive to 19-nor compounds and already have higher baseline prolactin levels, but there are definitely guys who can use lower doses without gyno or sexual issues, just like you are saying.

Caber is honestly hard to find, for me at least.
that dosing is broadly in line with my experience. My friendly Indian pharmacy ship it no problem and on deca I use 0.25 once a week (I’m not especially sensible to prolactin sides).

I do notice a significant increase in the size of my loads though......not a good or bad thing. Just an observation
 

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That is my understanding. I am super sensitive to 19-nor compounds and already have higher baseline prolactin levels, but there are definitely guys who can use lower doses without gyno or sexual issues, just like you are saying.

Caber is honestly hard to find, for me at least.
I can find some one research co i dont think i can mention has it. I have also heard of Prami? but my understanding is there are more side effects. I have heard some guys are senativeto test while others have no issues and are sensative to deca type stuff. . with the blood issues I am just figuring deca will be the way to go also i likely will only be able to do 12 weeks. I am hoping the deca and higher test dose will be out of my system by my next blood work. now my undestanding is that the deca willl not raise my test level so the main thing this doc tests for ( free and total test, estrogen and likely hemocrit. hemoglobin, red blood cells) will deca mess anything up major? If rbc or hemocrit is elevated a bit he "knows the deal"
 
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