question on Test Cyp

[mpkonig]

anyone who is on test cyp.....has anyone experienced like restless sleep? almost like your brain wont shut off? the night of the injection and the second night it seems like my brain didnt want to shut off. Is this a normal side? what should i do to try and counter it or will it subside once i get used to the test? And also....do i need to take any sort of estrogen blockers just in case?? been trying to search for info about it but havent found much useful info and i know the people who frequent this site are pretty knowledgable.

 

[The Matrix]

anyone who is on test cyp.....has anyone experienced like restless sleep? almost like your brain wont shut off? the night of the injection and the second night it seems like my brain didnt want to shut off. Is this a normal side? what should i do to try and counter it or will it subside once i get used to the test? And also....do i need to take any sort of estrogen blockers just in case?? been trying to search for info about it but havent found much useful info and i know the people who frequent this site are pretty knowledgable.

CAn be due to rise in estradiol or stimulation of metabolism, drop in cortisol or other hormonal imbalance that may be out of synch. Could have just been coincident due to your daily life stressors you encounter. It may be reawakening of your e2 receptors since being low for so long from increase of testosteorne. DO NOT TAKE AN AI right off the bat this is poor practice as it can fool you thinking it was high and was just restimulation of dormant testosterone or e2 receptors.

 

[mpkonig]

CAn be due to rise in estradiol or stimulation of metabolism, drop in cortisol or other hormonal imbalance that may be out of synch. Could have just been coincident due to your daily life stressors you encounter. It may be reawakening of your e2 receptors since being low for so long from increase of testosteorne. DO NOT TAKE AN AI right off the bat this is poor practice as it can fool you thinking it was high and was just restimulation of dormant testosterone or e2 receptors.

ok...thanks for the info...im only dosing 1cc every 2 weeks (200mg/ml)and some people say that it wont produce gyno effects...some say it could...just wanted to make sure if i needed to have something on hand as a precaution....thanks again.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Take your shot first thing AM. See if that helps.

 

[mpkonig]

Take your shot first thing AM. See if that helps.

ill try that next time...but it happened the nigh of injection...and the next night...so thats why i was wondering if it was a common side or just my body reacting to the test since ive probably been low for a while

 

[The Matrix]

ill try that next time...but it happened the nigh of injection...and the next night...so thats why i was wondering if it was a common side or just my body reacting to the test since ive probably been low for a while

1/2 ml weekly is more likely not cause issue with e2 as much as a 200 mgs shot every 2 weeks. With every 2 weeks you will be on a bad rollercoaster peaking at 1800 2 days after the shot down to 300 before shot is next due.
Your endo is obviously not up to date on proper protocols back has been left in the dark ages. :nana:

 

[Royd The Noyd]

1/2 ml weekly is more likely not cause issue with e2 as much as a 200 mgs shot every 2 weeks. With every 2 weeks you will be on a bad rollercoaster peaking at 1800 2 days after the shot down to 300 before shot is next due.
Your endo is obviously not up to date on proper protocols back has been left in the dark ages. :nana:

I'm assuming those are approximations. How much can those vary? Will 100mg/week peak at 1200 and only fall to 600 for example?

 

[The Matrix]

I'm assuming those are approximations. How much can those vary? Will 100mg/week peak at 1200 and only fall to 600 for example?

after doing close to 1000 blood tests over the year on patients you see a lower end of 250-400 on average for 100 mgs/ week.

Few people that come doing 200 mgs every 2 weeks average 300 day of next injection but have a crest of 1600-1800 2 days after application.

On 60 mgs 2 split every 3.5 days I personal trough about 800-1000 on average. morning of the shot. NO hcg.

Fast metabolizers can go from 1800 down to 600 with in 4 days after the injection so you need to watch for these people as well.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

after doing close to 1000 blood tests over the year on patients you see a lower end of 250-400 on average for 100 mgs/ week.

Few people that come doing 200 mgs every 2 weeks average 300 day of next injection but have a crest of 1600-1800 2 days after application.

On 60 mgs 2 split every 3.5 days I personal trough about 800-1000 on average. morning of the shot. NO hcg.

That's interesting and good info. What about guys using 200mg/week?

 

[The Matrix]

That's interesting and good info. What about guys using 200mg/week?

200 mgs per week is too much for 95% of the population.
When every I hear people on 200 mgs a week, first word that comes to mind is cookie cutter antiaging clinic protocol. The more T the more likely it will convert to e2 requiring an AI. When you get proper levels of testosterone, shbg, thyroid, and adrenals e2 will fall into place majority of the time. Too much testosterone can also have negative effect on thyroid and adrenals for prolong peroid of time as well as prostate. When doing TRT you are looking for the lowest dosage to alleviates symptoms with least amount of drugs. From practioner standpoint less variables to content with results in less head ache and better clincal response.

Bottom line more is not better and sometimes less is more.
Its all about bioindividuality.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

200 mgs per week is too much for 95% of the population.
When every I hear people on 200 mgs a week, first word that comes to mind is cookie cutter antiaging clinic protocol. The more T the more likely it will convert to e2 requiring an AI. When you get proper levels of testosterone, shbg, thyroid, and adrenals e2 will fall into place majority of the time. Too much testosterone can also have negative effect on thyroid and adrenals for prolong peroid of time as well as prostate. When doing TRT you are looking for the lowest dosage to alleviates symptoms with least amount of drugs. From practioner standpoint less variables to content with results in less head ache and better clincal response.

Bottom line more is not better and sometimes less is more.
Its all about bioindividuality.

I was listening to Dr Crisler on SHR this week and he basically agreed with you. In general he stated that if an AI is needed the test is too high.

 

[The Matrix]

I was listening to Dr Crisler on SHR this week and he basically agreed with you. In general he stated that if an AI is needed the test is too high.

I met with Dr crisler 2 weeks ago for lunch and had a really good conversation and time. I have been saying this for a long time, just little voices are rarely heard

 

[mpkonig]

1/2 ml weekly is more likely not cause issue with e2 as much as a 200 mgs shot every 2 weeks. With every 2 weeks you will be on a bad rollercoaster peaking at 1800 2 days after the shot down to 300 before shot is next due.
Your endo is obviously not up to date on proper protocols back has been left in the dark ages. :nana:

ok...good info....i actually went ahead and did some research and took my shot sub-q because from what i read...it helps with the rollercoaster effect...less peaks and valleys and less likely to be low when taking the next shot in 2 weeks...but you seem like a doctor the way you are talking or extremely well versed in test theory and bio availability....

so since i took my 1ml shot already on the 11th .....should i take a .5ml shot again on the 18th...or wait til the 25th when my next 1ml shot is due and just start the .5ml shots then? Is sub-q fine also for the way to administer it?

Also i should probably tell you...im 31...and was tested first time at a level of 216......was on diet for a month..lost 20lbs and my test levels jumped to 400 but i still felt like ****..just like when i was at 216....and then was tested a 3rd time and was down in the 230's....Dr. said that your test goes thru high and low points but being tested 3 times and being extremely low 2 of those times and then being on the very bottom of normal range and still feeling like crap means that i was probably used to running at a higher end of the spectrum when i was younger (hence the reason i could look at a weight and get bigger without any supplementation). She also said that some people no matter what levels they used to be at cant function properly at certain low levels....some people walk around at 200 to 400 and are completely fine and dandy and feel great....where some people just need to be around mid range (700 - 800) to feel and function normally.

The more i research testosterone and how it effects everything and how different people react differently to different levels of the stuff....i get more and more fascinated.

 

[The Matrix]

ok...good info....i actually went ahead and did some research and took my shot sub-q because from what i read...it helps with the rollercoaster effect...less peaks and valleys and less likely to be low when taking the next shot in 2 weeks...but you seem like a doctor the way you are talking or extremely well versed in test theory and bio availability....

so since i took my 1ml shot already on the 11th .....should i take a .5ml shot again on the 18th...or wait til the 25th when my next 1ml shot is due and just start the .5ml shots then? Is sub-q fine also for the way to administer it?

Also i should probably tell you...im 31...and was tested first time at a level of 216......was on diet for a month..lost 20lbs and my test levels jumped to 400 but i still felt like ****..just like when i was at 216....and then was tested a 3rd time and was down in the 230's....Dr. said that your test goes thru high and low points but being tested 3 times and being extremely low 2 of those times and then being on the very bottom of normal range and still feeling like crap means that i was probably used to running at a higher end of the spectrum when i was younger (hence the reason i could look at a weight and get bigger without any supplementation). She also said that some people no matter what levels they used to be at cant function properly at certain low levels....some people walk around at 200 to 400 and are completely fine and dandy and feel great....where some people just need to be around mid range (700 - 800) to feel and function normally.

The more i research testosterone and how it effects everything and how different people react differently to different levels of the stuff....i get more and more fascinated.

I help educate dr's are proper ways to deal with both male and females hormonal train wrecks, plus look out side the box to the potential root causes to why they are expereincing their symptoms through indept blood, urine and nutritional testing. I look for root causes not just symptoms..

I need to look at the whole case scenerio in order to give recommendations

In majority of cases
People who are 100 mgs per week take 50 mgs twice weekly split 3.5 days apart to keep plasma levels of T and e2 pretty stable. Some people will go EOD due to the fact that they burn through testosterone too quickly. They usually inject with 29 gauge 1/2 inch syringe in the shoulder or thigh. Draw with big gauge then pull the top on the insulin pin then fill it up to where you need.Stick the plunger back in the inuslin pin turn it up side down let it run to the bottom then push up to get air out. Since adding in this protocol the need for adex has dropped dramatically.

People that walk around 200-300 are fine because they have healthy function adrenal, thyroid, e2, gh levels. If you have one thing out of wack then testosterone needs to make up for the other Ie GH. Increasing gh will reduce requirements of testosterone in gh deficient people.

 

[mpkonig]

I help educate dr's are proper ways to deal with both male and females hormonal train wrecks, plus look out side the box to the potential root causes to why they are expereincing their symptoms through indept blood, urine and nutritional testing. I look for root causes not just symptoms..

I need to look at the whole case scenerio in order to give recommendations

In majority of cases
People who are 100 mgs per week take 50 mgs twice weekly split 3.5 days apart to keep plasma levels of T and e2 pretty stable. Some people will go EOD due to the fact that they burn through testosterone too quickly. They usually inject with 29 gauge 1/2 inch syringe in the shoulder or thigh. Draw with big gauge then pull the top on the insulin pin then fill it up to where you need.Stick the plunger back in the inuslin pin turn it up side down let it run to the bottom then push up to get air out. Since adding in this protocol the need for adex has dropped dramatically.

People that walk around 200-300 are fine because they have healthy function adrenal, thyroid, e2, gh levels. If you have one thing out of wack then testosterone needs to make up for the other Ie GH. Increasing gh will reduce requirements of testosterone in gh deficient people.

hmm..interesting...all my bloodwork came back normal except for my test and my dhea.....but i dont know exactly what the whole bloodworkup included...there was a bunch of stuff she was looking at though.

 

[The Matrix]

hmm..interesting...all my bloodwork came back normal except for my test and my dhea.....but i dont know exactly what the whole bloodworkup included...there was a bunch of stuff she was looking at though.

Low dhea is adrenals, autoimmune disorder, infection, or other stress to your immune system (GI tract imbalnaces are the biggest)

Shes not going to really dig like she should..

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm assuming those are approximations. How much can those vary? Will 100mg/week peak at 1200 and only fall to 600 for example?

my last blood test came in at something over 2200 from a first thing in the morning draw after dosing 200mg just before bed the night before.

I'll add that the only reason my doctor prescribed 200 was that originally he started me on 150 a week, but the stupid pharmacy fills it as 1ml vials of cyp at 200mg/ml. So the next time he just wrote it for 200.

 

[The Matrix]

my last blood test came in at something over 2200 from a first thing in the morning draw after dosing 200mg just before bed the night before.

I'll add that the only reason my doctor prescribed 200 was that originally he started me on 150 a week, but the stupid pharmacy fills it as 1ml vials of cyp at 200mg/ml. So the next time he just wrote it for 200.

more is not better..

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, i've pondered dropping to the 125-150 range myself. waiting to see how next set of bloodwork comes out

 

[1609]

more is not better..

Seems to be a recurring statement from you. I have much to learn. :think:

 

[mpkonig]

indeed but im glad we have Matrix here to help us out and give us straight and up to date facts about this stuff....i realized that most doctors just look at the level norms and benchmarks that are set for them by the hospital or health group they work for and dont do any voluntary research on their own. Im lucky my dr is willing to do research but i think i may want to look into a more "specialized" doctor for this test problem. Ive seen them advertise they are endo's who specialize in TRT....dont know how much BS that really is..but i could see how a doctor could be more specialized and interested in one field of his job.

 

[The Matrix]

indeed but im glad we have Matrix here to help us out and give us straight and up to date facts about this stuff....i realized that most doctors just look at the level norms and benchmarks that are set for them by the hospital or health group they work for and dont do any voluntary research on their own. Im lucky my dr is willing to do research but i think i may want to look into a more "specialized" doctor for this test problem. Ive seen them advertise they are endo's who specialize in TRT....dont know how much BS that really is..but i could see how a doctor could be more specialized and interested in one field of his job.

I tend to have my paws in several areas dealing with health issues since I have been through all of them on a person basis. Having the medical background with a few years experience is one thing, but when a medical professional can relate what it is really like from a first hand encounter that is priceless It nice being on the cutting edge of integrative and alternative medicine having the connections to get to information months before it becomes known.

The bull shiz is that the medical community makes you feel like a ping pong ball being bounced around wasting time in the process you are feeling like crap. When you can have a one stop shop place focusing on You the indiviudal from all standpoints then you found the right practioner for you. This has been our focal point for many years and many other medical practioners I am starting to work with are starting to follow suit.

 

[1609]

indeed but im glad we have Matrix here to help us out and give us straight and up to date facts about this stuff.

I couldn't agree more.

Having the medical background with a few years experience is one thing, but when a medical professional can relate what it is really like from a first hand encounter that is priceless

Very true! I have been on TRT since last June, but it was not until December when I realized my GP didn't really understand TRT. The doctor I see now for my TRT seems to have a much better handle on the subject and I feel way more confident going to her for this sort of thing.

I know we should not place a lot of stock in opinions and advice from strangers, but it does give people like me a reference to ask the right questions of our doctors and do the research.

 

[The Matrix]

I couldn't agree more.



Very true! I have been on TRT since last June, but it was not until December when I realized my GP didn't really understand TRT. The doctor I see now for my TRT seems to have a much better handle on the subject and I feel way more confident going to her for this sort of thing.

I know we should not place a lot of stock in opinions and advice from strangers, but it does give people like me a reference to ask the right questions of our doctors and do the research.

When the person that is giving these suggestions not prescriptions has/is designing nutritional and HRT procotols for more then 1000 people for past several years under MD supervision as well as consulting with other medical professionals might give it just a wee bit of validity. :wink1:

 

[1609]

When the person that is giving these suggestions not prescriptions has/is designing nutritional and HRT procotols for more then 1000 people for past several years under MD supervision as well as consulting with other medical professionals might give it just a wee bit of validity. :wink1:

Don't get me wrong...I'm not questioning your knowledge. In fact, I appreciate the information you provide!!!

 

[mpkonig]

@Matrix...Thanks for helping me out in this thread i posted about test cyp...i was wondering...are there more people like you?? im very interested on what you have to say and your knowledge and was wondering if there is a place i can search for knowledgeable people like yourself. Im in Florida and still looking for a good doctor that i feel 100% confident in. Even if i can hire someone to possibly look at my blood test results and get another opinion besides the doctors would be great. tried to PM u but your popular and mailbox was full..lol

 

[The Matrix]

@Matrix...Thanks for helping me out in this thread i posted about test cyp...i was wondering...are there more people like you?? im very interested on what you have to say and your knowledge and was wondering if there is a place i can search for knowledgeable people like yourself. Im in Florida and still looking for a good doctor that i feel 100% confident in. Even if i can hire someone to possibly look at my blood test results and get another opinion besides the doctors would be great. tried to PM u but your popular and mailbox was full..lol

Unfortunately there is only one Matrix.
Alot of medical professionals have their areas of strength, but very few are as well diverse in on all topics. This is what seperates me from the rest. If I do not know the answer I am not afraid to goto the source to get it. I have alot of top minds just an email or phone call away.

try to pm again..

 

[ordawg1]

Matrix- I am doing 60 mg on Moday morning and Thurday evening Sub Q.( Cyp) I have my bloods tested in the trough and the reading is around 3-400. If I increase to say 75-100 mg twice weekly- and then measure again- my test is 500- 650 ish and I feel much better at that range. I am 59 -6'2" and 235 hard.Stellar diet- no achhol/ smoke etc.My buddy is much the same but a bit larger than I am. He is doing the 100 mg- twice weekly and swears by it. But- he is also saying we should be taking HCG twice weekly. WE are on this for life- does it make sense to you? The DR hasn't a clue of what is correct I dont think.Do I really need clomid or HCG ? Thanks

 

[The Matrix]

Matrix- I am doing 60 mg on Moday morning and Thurday evening Sub Q.( Cyp) I have my bloods tested in the trough and the reading is around 3-400. If I increase to say 75-100 mg twice weekly- and then measure again- my test is 500- 650 ish and I feel much better at that range. I am 59 -6'2" and 235 hard.Stellar diet- no achhol/ smoke etc.My buddy is much the same but a bit larger than I am. He is doing the 100 mg- twice weekly and swears by it. But- he is also saying we should be taking HCG twice weekly. WE are on this for life- does it make sense to you? The DR hasn't a clue of what is correct I dont think.Do I really need clomid or HCG ? Thanks

When dealing with medical cases I need to have the complete background. If some one told you to jump off the bridge would you do it? I use the lastest cutting edge principles of HRT and add my own modifications to the protocols I developed for dr's patient. The end result is less need for drugs, reducing cost, reducing variables to contend with , increased patients satification with reduced symptoms, quicker recovery time. Along with doing this I also include an integrative approach in health counseling for lifestyle, nutrition, psychological, environmental toxins. I can tell you from person experience and the numerous cases I see a week, a person who tells me they are eating a balance or good diet I just snicker. You have to understand what goes in your mouth may not end up coming out the same as there are countless chemical reaction taking place which will actually change the out come of protein into something totally else or may be a toxin in your body turning your health food into a poison. Again even though you eat a heathy diet means squat once it gets into the body :yup: