arena
Guest
you would think that companies like merck have spent billions trying to figure out how to raise hormone levels naturally, but have so far been unsuccesful. so why should we believe these small supp. companies can do it?
CDONDICI
Member
arena said:
Thye don't really care if it is natural or not as long as it works and doesn't kill anyone, they are not concerned with the healthiest option for the consumer they are more concerned with highest net profit for the company. There are also bigger fish to fry than low testosterone levels, like cancer, aids, and diabetes.
Supplement companies on the other hand are forced to search for the natural alternatives thanks to the ph ban, which has actually unintentionally influenced some great products.
Proteinpowda
Member
arena said:
And the large pharmaceutical companies spend oh about $500 million on producing each product. How much do supplement companies spend? How much research is done on supplements? Who is writing the articles and reviews on the supplements? Not Doctors...
When it comes to writing a review of a product a degree in english seems to help more than a Doctorate in physiology.
This man has a very valid point.
And how do any of us even know these products are what they claim to be? Their might be contaminants or something else entirely in them. Most of them are not even USP.
And truly if there were such good products dontcha think that in all that research the drug companies might have accidentally stumbled on some of these products?
Proteinpowda
Member
CDONDICI said:
They are not concerned with the safety of the consumer. You my friend have been brainwashed by supplement companies then. These supplement companies that you think are golden don't publish safety articles on their products; most of the time they don't conduct tests. They just pull up a few articles from medline and the like and cite them. Drug companies on the other hand face massive liability if one of their drugs is not safe. Think Vioxx and multi-billion dollar lawsuits. Phen-Phen is another example. So the drug companies are much much more interested in consumer safety than supplement companies. Most supplement companies don't even have the resources or staff (Phds, MD's, pharmacists) to evaluate this stuff. One of the legends in the supplement industry Pat Arnold doesn't even his MS but took some graduate level courses according to his profile on Ergopharm.
So no; the drug companies are much better qualified and much more concerned with your safety. They don't LIE TO YOU and say that a product has no side effects; they tell you them even if they have a low rate of occurence. And if they don't mention it directly you can look it up. They're not like a bunch of the companies on here that claim their products to have no side effects. That's just saying that they have not properly researched their product if at all.
Having a million references is not always relevent either. For example I'll be honest and say I love AX Stimulant X. I was also excited when I read the article and saw 40 references. Going through the refernces and abstract almost none of them related to the product. Quite a bunch of them were on ephedrine actually.
PS: You really think natural means something these days? Wow.
doggzj
Board Supporter
It's really simple.
Big Pharma wants chemicals they can patent. You can't patent natural herbs. No company is going to spend millions getting FDA regulation for an herbal product that every compettitor is imediately going to copy. Big pharma could care less if you live longer or are healthier, they just want to make money.
Also, 100% of big pharma drugs work in some way. Maybe 10% of supplements work at all, and even less that work well.
You don't have to believe 'these small supplement companies' at all. Don't buy their products if you don't believe their claims.
Big Pharma wants chemicals they can patent. You can't patent natural herbs. No company is going to spend millions getting FDA regulation for an herbal product that every compettitor is imediately going to copy. Big pharma could care less if you live longer or are healthier, they just want to make money.
Also, 100% of big pharma drugs work in some way. Maybe 10% of supplements work at all, and even less that work well.
You don't have to believe 'these small supplement companies' at all. Don't buy their products if you don't believe their claims.
CDONDICI
Member
Proteinpowda said:
I think you misunderstood my post...
I was not trying to glorify supplement companies in a sense that they are overly concerned with consumer safety. I meant natural as in "not synthetic hormones". They are searching for herbal ways to boost testosterone, and creating more EFFECTIVE herbal products, I didn't necesarrily say safe products, although they are safer than such products as M1T. Which was my point on supplement companies.
Not many businesses really care about your health, look at big pharma, fast food, big tobacco, some supplement companies, they could give a **** less, they just don't want you to die, bc then you can't use the products anymore.
TeamSavage
Registered User
doggzj said:
Yes, this is an important and overlooked fact. For certain diseases there really are viable natural alternatives to pharmaceuticals: St. John's Wort (hyperforin-standardized) for depression, Red Yeast Rice (monacolin-standardized) for high cholesterol, etc. But these natural compounds will never be FDA approved, because the FDA approval process must be sponsored at a cost of $10-30 million. And since a company cannot patent a natural, there is no incentive to sponsor FDA approval.
Proteinpowda
Member
CDONDICI said:
They also don't want to get sued. You're a democrat I take it?
More effective? I have yet to see one company offer proof of that.
Proteinpowda
Member
CDONDICI said:
There's a big difference betwen a few people offering blood-work and a full product write up. Go to one of the big pharmas sites one day and read the FULL product description with lab results and stuff. It's cool ****.
TeamSavage
Registered User
Yeah, click on "Prescribing Information" on a drug's website. That's the "official" write-up they do for MDs. I always read it first as it is heavy on the research and light on the fluff.
cage
New member
:yawn: Hay! What's wrong with Democrat's?lol lol lol The supp. industry only really have things like herbs to work with and they do a pretty good job from what ive seen,concidering. And when something really work's the gov. going to ban it anyway. so injoy while u can. just my op. just kidding about the democrat thing i really don't care.lol lol lol
arena
Guest
the reason why im asking this is cause i know that the supps (prohormones) anabolic xtreme released in the past work. what i am tryin to figure out now is if these new supps they are releasing actually work or are they just pushin any product because they have a good brand name(built by the prohormones they used to sell)
xtraflossy
Board Supporter
arena said:
lol- that's exactly what I thought after the original PH ban in regaurds to all these "designer anabolics".
If you want to know (specificly)if AX product "might work", you can find research on the ingredients, or most of them.
The "active" has already been through field trials so to speak (think NHA stack)
You have to remember the difference between big pharma and supplement companies...
And that's FDA approval.
Also, a "supplement company" is just that. They make products that you can live without (debatable I know,.,.
)Unlike many pharma's produce. Increase quality of life, ... ARE OFTEN TAKEN LONG TERM ...ect.
Another big part of it all is who's looking at what research.
You say, "how can these supp companies do it"..
Well,.. I would think that somehow it's like a giant puzzle. Research here for this purpose, for that purpose,.
IF your looking for long term approaches for wasting desiese treatments, M1T would be of little interest.
Likewise, a doc most likely wont proscribe an herbal product when their pratice gets a kickback from pushing the high dollar Big Pharma drugs.
sock
Member
arena said:
I can say for certain merck isn't wasting billions on developing drugs that raise hormones. No money in it. Major theraputic areas: obesity, diabeties, pain, cardiovascular, etc.... Heart disease and cancer are the major killers in the US. Thats where the money is. Pfizer's lipitor generates $13 billion/yr in sales. Thats alot of people on cholesterol medicine! So much for diet and exercise (only cost is time).