Q & A for FINAFLEX EPI-V
- Thread starter ScottyDoc
- Start date
BBB
Well-known member
From eveything I've read Epi targets ER Beta receptors. Moreover, ER Beta receptors have an antiprolific effect on prostate cells.
Estrogen receptor beta (ERbeta) plays a protective role against uncontrolled cell proliferation. ERbeta is lost during prostate cancer (CaP) progression suggesting its direct involvement in contrasting tumor proliferation in this disease; however, the molecular mechanism at the basis of this effect has not been clearly defined yet. Possible molecular targets of ERbeta were assessed in DU145 cells, a CaP cell line expressing only ERbeta. Cells treated from 1 to 9 days with different doses of estradiol or diarylpropionitrile (DPN, an ERbeta-selective agonist) show a time-dependent decrease in cell proliferation. The reduced proliferation rate is accompanied by the stimulation of ERbeta expression and the increase of cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitor p21. We demonstrate that the endogenous ERbeta is one of the mediator of the antiproliferative action of estrogens enhancing the synthesis of molecules such as p21 that control cell cycle, an effect amplified by the autoregulation of ERbeta expression. Our observations suggest that CaP, when expressing a functional ERbeta, might be sensitive to the antiproliferative action of estrogens; therefore, ERbeta specific agonists might be valid candidates for new pharmacological approaches to this disease.or beta polymorphism is associated with prostate cancer risk.
Thellenberg-Karlsson C, Lindström S, Malmer B, Wiklund F, Augustsson-Bälter K, Adami HO, Stattin P, Nilsson M, Dahlman-Wright K, Gustafsson JA, Grönberg H.
Department of Radiation Sciences/Oncology, University of Umeå, Umeå, Sweden.
Abstract
PURPOSE: After cloning of the second estrogen receptor, estrogen receptor beta (ERbeta) in 1996, increasing evidence of its importance in prostate cancer development has been obtained. ERbeta is thought to exert an antiproliferative and proapoptotic effect. We examined whether sequence variants in the ERbeta gene are associated with prostate cancer risk. EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN: We conducted a large population-based case-control study (CAncer Prostate in Sweden, CAPS) consisting of 1,415 incident cases of prostate cancer and 801 controls. We evaluated 28 single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP) spanning the entire ERbeta gene from the promoter to the 3'-untranslated region in 94 subjects of the control group. From this, we constructed gene-specific haplotypes and selected four haplotype-tagging SNPs (htSNP: rs2987983, rs1887994, rs1256040, and rs1256062). These four htSNPs were then genotyped in the total study population of 2,216 subjects. RESULTS: There was a statistically significant difference in allele frequency between cases and controls for one of the typed htSNPs (rs2987983), 27% in cases and 24% in controls (P = 0.03). Unconditional logistics regression showed an odds ratio of 1.22 (95% confidence interval, 1.02-1.46) for men carrying the variant allele TC or CC versus the wild-type TT, and an odds ratio of 1.33 (95% confidence interval, 1.08-1.64) for localized cancer. No association of prostate cancer risk with any of the other SNPs or with any haplotypes were seen. CONCLUSION: We found an association with a SNP located in the promoter region of the ERbeta gene and risk of developing prostate cancer. The biological significance of this finding is unclear, but it supports the hypothesis that sequence variation in the promoter region of ERbeta is of importance for risk of prostate cancer.
There are two estrogen receptors in this model:
ER-alpha: accelerates prostate cancer
ER-beta: puts the brakes on prostate cancer.
It is believed that ER-alpha and ER-beta have a relationship to TMPRSS2-ERG gene fusions. These gene fusions are associated with more aggressive cancers and future diagnostics may use their presence as a marker to distinguish between indolent and aggressive prostate cancer. Also see [PMID: 18505969]
Example: Toremifene. Toremifene is in a class of drug known as a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM). Low doses of toremifene act again ER-alpha and to a much lesser extent against ER-beta. Since ER-alpha accelerates the cancer the effect of toremifene is anti-cancer; however, at higher doses toremifene acts against not only ER-alpha but also against ER-beta so at these higher doses the ER-beta no longer counteracts the ER-alpha and so is no longer effective. This gives it an inverse dose response curve: i.e. toremifene is effective at lower dosages where it only knocks out ER-alpha but at higher dosages it is less effective or ineffective since it starts blocking the beneficial ER-beta as well.
Example: phytoestrogens. Phytoestrogens have an anti-cancer effect via a pathway outside the scope of this model; however, they also bind to ER-beta which could have the effect of disabling ER-beta's moderating influence on prostate cancer and encouraging the formation of bcl-2, a protein which protects cancer cells. Particularly problematic might be if the patient simultaneously increased bcl-2 from multiple sources such as by consuming high amounts of phytoestrogens such as soy and at the same time generated even more bcl-2 by taking 5AR drugs or natural 5AR inhibitors such as saw palmetto and its key ingredient beta sitosterol or with white button mushrooms. See Ed Friedman's comments and more comments. "Green tea catechin (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) is a natural AR5 inhibitor. Flavonoids that were potent inhibitors of the type 1 5alpha-reductase include myricetin, quercitin, baicalein, and fisetin. Biochanin A, daidzein, genistein, and kaempferol were much better inhibitors of the type 2 than the type 1 isozyme. Several other natural and synthetic polyphenolic compounds were more effective inhibitors of the type 1 than the type 2 isozyme, including alizarin, anthrarobin, gossypol, nordihydroguaiaretic acid, caffeic acid phenethyl ester, and octyl and dodecyl gallates." (quotes from [PMID: 11931850])
It therefore appears that ER Beta receptors play a protective role in reducing the risk of prostate cancer. Therefore the usage of epi products could increase a persons risk of prostate cancrer. Would you agree?
Estrogen receptor beta (ERbeta) plays a protective role against uncontrolled cell proliferation. ERbeta is lost during prostate cancer (CaP) progression suggesting its direct involvement in contrasting tumor proliferation in this disease; however, the molecular mechanism at the basis of this effect has not been clearly defined yet. Possible molecular targets of ERbeta were assessed in DU145 cells, a CaP cell line expressing only ERbeta. Cells treated from 1 to 9 days with different doses of estradiol or diarylpropionitrile (DPN, an ERbeta-selective agonist) show a time-dependent decrease in cell proliferation. The reduced proliferation rate is accompanied by the stimulation of ERbeta expression and the increase of cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitor p21. We demonstrate that the endogenous ERbeta is one of the mediator of the antiproliferative action of estrogens enhancing the synthesis of molecules such as p21 that control cell cycle, an effect amplified by the autoregulation of ERbeta expression. Our observations suggest that CaP, when expressing a functional ERbeta, might be sensitive to the antiproliferative action of estrogens; therefore, ERbeta specific agonists might be valid candidates for new pharmacological approaches to this disease.or beta polymorphism is associated with prostate cancer risk.
Thellenberg-Karlsson C, Lindström S, Malmer B, Wiklund F, Augustsson-Bälter K, Adami HO, Stattin P, Nilsson M, Dahlman-Wright K, Gustafsson JA, Grönberg H.
Department of Radiation Sciences/Oncology, University of Umeå, Umeå, Sweden.
Abstract
PURPOSE: After cloning of the second estrogen receptor, estrogen receptor beta (ERbeta) in 1996, increasing evidence of its importance in prostate cancer development has been obtained. ERbeta is thought to exert an antiproliferative and proapoptotic effect. We examined whether sequence variants in the ERbeta gene are associated with prostate cancer risk. EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN: We conducted a large population-based case-control study (CAncer Prostate in Sweden, CAPS) consisting of 1,415 incident cases of prostate cancer and 801 controls. We evaluated 28 single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNP) spanning the entire ERbeta gene from the promoter to the 3'-untranslated region in 94 subjects of the control group. From this, we constructed gene-specific haplotypes and selected four haplotype-tagging SNPs (htSNP: rs2987983, rs1887994, rs1256040, and rs1256062). These four htSNPs were then genotyped in the total study population of 2,216 subjects. RESULTS: There was a statistically significant difference in allele frequency between cases and controls for one of the typed htSNPs (rs2987983), 27% in cases and 24% in controls (P = 0.03). Unconditional logistics regression showed an odds ratio of 1.22 (95% confidence interval, 1.02-1.46) for men carrying the variant allele TC or CC versus the wild-type TT, and an odds ratio of 1.33 (95% confidence interval, 1.08-1.64) for localized cancer. No association of prostate cancer risk with any of the other SNPs or with any haplotypes were seen. CONCLUSION: We found an association with a SNP located in the promoter region of the ERbeta gene and risk of developing prostate cancer. The biological significance of this finding is unclear, but it supports the hypothesis that sequence variation in the promoter region of ERbeta is of importance for risk of prostate cancer.
There are two estrogen receptors in this model:
ER-alpha: accelerates prostate cancer
ER-beta: puts the brakes on prostate cancer.
It is believed that ER-alpha and ER-beta have a relationship to TMPRSS2-ERG gene fusions. These gene fusions are associated with more aggressive cancers and future diagnostics may use their presence as a marker to distinguish between indolent and aggressive prostate cancer. Also see [PMID: 18505969]
Example: Toremifene. Toremifene is in a class of drug known as a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM). Low doses of toremifene act again ER-alpha and to a much lesser extent against ER-beta. Since ER-alpha accelerates the cancer the effect of toremifene is anti-cancer; however, at higher doses toremifene acts against not only ER-alpha but also against ER-beta so at these higher doses the ER-beta no longer counteracts the ER-alpha and so is no longer effective. This gives it an inverse dose response curve: i.e. toremifene is effective at lower dosages where it only knocks out ER-alpha but at higher dosages it is less effective or ineffective since it starts blocking the beneficial ER-beta as well.
Example: phytoestrogens. Phytoestrogens have an anti-cancer effect via a pathway outside the scope of this model; however, they also bind to ER-beta which could have the effect of disabling ER-beta's moderating influence on prostate cancer and encouraging the formation of bcl-2, a protein which protects cancer cells. Particularly problematic might be if the patient simultaneously increased bcl-2 from multiple sources such as by consuming high amounts of phytoestrogens such as soy and at the same time generated even more bcl-2 by taking 5AR drugs or natural 5AR inhibitors such as saw palmetto and its key ingredient beta sitosterol or with white button mushrooms. See Ed Friedman's comments and more comments. "Green tea catechin (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) is a natural AR5 inhibitor. Flavonoids that were potent inhibitors of the type 1 5alpha-reductase include myricetin, quercitin, baicalein, and fisetin. Biochanin A, daidzein, genistein, and kaempferol were much better inhibitors of the type 2 than the type 1 isozyme. Several other natural and synthetic polyphenolic compounds were more effective inhibitors of the type 1 than the type 2 isozyme, including alizarin, anthrarobin, gossypol, nordihydroguaiaretic acid, caffeic acid phenethyl ester, and octyl and dodecyl gallates." (quotes from [PMID: 11931850])
It therefore appears that ER Beta receptors play a protective role in reducing the risk of prostate cancer. Therefore the usage of epi products could increase a persons risk of prostate cancrer. Would you agree?
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
I would have to agree with you completely my friend! I do believe a product containing epistane could increase a person's risk of prostate cancer. It is a good thing our product does not contain epistane! But thank you, I definitely think it serves as a good warning to the risks involved in taking a product with epistane. Good looking out!
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
FINAFLEX Epi-V by Redefine Nutrition
Androsterone - Androsterone is a DHT precursor. DHT of course is dihydrotestosterone, which is the metabolite of testosterone renowned for its drying out and hardening effects. Androsterone is one of two DHT precursors that are available as prohormones today. Of these two (the other being epiandrosterone) androsterone is substantially more expensive and substantially more effective. Yet it’s worth every penny because its great stuff (personally I wouldn’t even mess around with epiandrosterone, its crap). Androsterone is the more anabolic of the two, and Vida (the anabolic researcher’s bible) explicitly shows this. Vida has shown Androsterone to be 194% stronger than Testosterone! This is not a misprint, not a claim, not a number that I just pulled out of my a**. We are talking about an Anabolic AND Androgenic SuperPower here and it is the main ingredient found in FINAFLEX Epi-V.
Adrenosterone - Adrenosterone is a naturally occurring adrenal androgen. At the dosages used in this formula it can aid fat loss – especially visceral or “gut” fat loss – by affecting the metabolism of cortisol in the body. By keeping cortisol’s precursor cortisone from turning into cortisol in the wrong places throughout your body, adrenosterone will cause a shift in metabolism that favors nutrient partitioning in favor of lean mass. Keeping cortisol in check is essential for a successful cut, and there is no better “smart weapon” at our disposal for this purpose than the adrenosterone found in the FINAFLEX Epi-V.
7beta-hydroxy-DHEA - This compound is a metabolite of DHEA that has the ability to stimulate enzymes in the liver leading to a phenomenon known as “futile energy cycling”. Basically it causes your liver to burn calories and release heat. The more calories you burn by just sitting around the less you have to bust you’re a** in the gym to achieve your daily energy balance of “calories in, calories out”. In fact, its about one of the most healthy things you can be taking thanks to its potential ability to boost the immune system and reverse some of the metabolic dysfunctions that happen with aging.
Stimulant and Shredding Blend – FINAFLEX Epi-V also contains a proprietary blend of fat burning and energy stimulants that work to complete the SHREDDING MATRIX found in FINAFLEX Epi-V. The stimulant blend of 1,3-dimethylamine (DMAA), the methylxanthine caffeine, and ECGC derived from green tea works to annihilate fat stores, increase the body’s metabolic rate, and release neurotransmitters in the brain. The last piece to this incredible product is the mild diuretic TARAXACUM. Being lean is not impressive if you still have bloat in your skin. So Redefine nutrition put this mild diuretic in the product. Not enough to dehydrate you or create electrolyte imbalances of course, but just enough to ensure you maintain a healthy and attractive level of dryness.
Well that’s it. Sounds like a pretty nifty formula doesn’t it? I’ll tell you this, it sure beats 99.9% of the over-hyped crap out there. So make the smart choice and try FINAFLEX Epi-V to reach that single digit shredded condition you are so hungry for. Remember the main ingredient in FINAFLEX Epi-V is 194% STRONGER THAN TESTOSTERONE! FINAFLEX Epi-V is your secret weapon to getting SHREDDED, now it is…
”TIME TO GO TO WORK!”
BBB
Well-known member
I'm debating on whether to try your 1-andro or PP's new AndroMass. I like the 1-Andro since it doesn't convert to estrogen or DHT but lethergy is a big problem with this product. AndroMass has 4-DHEA to offset the lethergy problem but it can convert to estorgen and DHT. 4-DHEA also makes the stack more effective. Decisions, decisions.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
They are both great products and either choice can work! Obviously I would rather you choose our product! If you were to choose our FINAFLEX 1-ANDRO, you can fight the lethargy with a good energy booster/fat burner, Hey... how about PRO XANTHINE 500XT? Or, if you were looking to go down the path of the "Dark Side" aka. AndroMass, then you could block the estrogenic effects by taking FINAFLEX's PCT REVOLUTION & PURE TEST both with it and after it as a post cycle. Options, options!!
Finaflex
New member
Scotty,
I am interested in using the Finaflex epvi. I am just now getting off of the revolution from taking the 1andro. How long should i wait until i can take this product? What kind of results am i looking at? I am big enough now to where i want to get ripped. Explain how i should take this and what results i should expect. thanks again!
I am interested in using the Finaflex epvi. I am just now getting off of the revolution from taking the 1andro. How long should i wait until i can take this product? What kind of results am i looking at? I am big enough now to where i want to get ripped. Explain how i should take this and what results i should expect. thanks again!
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Dosage and sides are the same as from 1-Andro, so the same precautions need to be taken! I would wait a min. of 4 weeks after finishing your PCT before starting a new cycle of any prohormone! I would also run a liver/kidney shield/detox, either during or after your next cycle! How I would run the EPI-V is 4 caps a day (2 caps twice a day) for 4-6 weeks, I would also be taking PURE TEST, ALC + CLA, & PRO-XANTHINE to keep your Testosterone high and to get totally SHREDDED!!!
gbstylez87
New member
OK, so is Finaflex Epi-v good for toning up. I am 6ft 196lbs >25% body fat. I workout 3 days a week, with 30 min cardio sessions. I have a clean diet. I want to get toned and ripped. I have never taken any supplements before.
From what I understand, I should try Finaflex Epi-v for 40days, I will run 2 pills for the first week, then 3 pills after. Then follow by the PCT after the cycle? Love to hear the feedback.
From what I understand, I should try Finaflex Epi-v for 40days, I will run 2 pills for the first week, then 3 pills after. Then follow by the PCT after the cycle? Love to hear the feedback.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Yes, that is what EPI-V is designed for, ripping and toning up. I would throw an additional fat-burning combination into the mix as well if you want to speed up/maximize your results in the least amount of time. Example: take (6) ALC + CLA's a day (non stimulant based fat-burner) and (2) Pro-Xanthine's a day (stimulant based fat-burner).
gbstylez87
New member
For now I will get the ALC + CLA and give it a try. Should I take the alc+cla together with the EPI-V or should they be taken at different intervals?
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
It really doesn't matter if you take them at the same time or not! What I always like to do is to split my doses up, no matter what I am taking. For example... You said you were going to start off with 2 caps of EPI-V, right? Well take 1 cap of EPI-V in the morning with 2 pills of ALC + CLA, then sometime around mid-day (different for different sleep schedules) take the other EPI-V and 2 more ALC + CLA's, then sometime shortly before bed, take the final 2 ALC + CLA's. I do this so I have a pretty constant supply in my body at all times and that way I don't just digest, absorb what I need and excrete the rest as waist, when a few hours later, my body might be ready to absorb more, that is my way of thinking on everything to be honest with you. The reason why I am having you do the 2nd EPI-V around mid-day instead of before bed is because it has stimulants in it and I don't want them to mess with your sleep.
Hope this helps and answers all your Q's, if not, shoot them over, this is what I am here for! Oh and by the way, sounds like you are about to do a really good cycle, drink lots of water and keep your rep-range high and it will maximize your fat reduction and muscle retention as well as be easier on your your tendons, joints and ligaments, Good luck and have fun with it!
gbstylez87
New member
Well Today is Day 1. I hope this thing works. When should I start to see results? I know how I would look if I kept running and lifting after a week naturally. So what changes should I start to notice first.
One a regular natural diet I lose about 1lb a week while working out. So, should I start losing 2lbs a week with this? Remember I am above >25% body fat, so I should lose a lot of weight as it correlates to my body fat.
One a regular natural diet I lose about 1lb a week while working out. So, should I start losing 2lbs a week with this? Remember I am above >25% body fat, so I should lose a lot of weight as it correlates to my body fat.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
I can't possibly answer your question without knowing your workout regiment and diet. I mean I don't know how you lift, your body part split per week, your intensity / rep range, what you consider dieting, are you doing cardio and at what intensity, etc. etc. etc.
But to attempt to answer you question, I find that it almost doubled my typical results. So if I was working out with a new regiment and was looking to add 10 lbs of muscle in 3 mos. between diet and exercise, I would gain 15-20lbs on EPI-V (5-10lb difference). If I would normally lose 30lbs of fat in 3 mos. with diet and exercise alone, then I would lose 45+ lbs in that amount of time on EPI-V (15+ lb difference).
It works very well, I am proud to stand behind this product and promote it, I believe you will be very pleased with the results and the best, honest answer I can give you is... "it will accelerate your efforts" Oh and as to when you should start noticing changes or a difference as in you can tell it is working, usually by the beginning of your third week using you will notice a difference, which becomes more and more noticeable as the days and weeks go on, and you will probably notice that your results will continue to climb for about a week after you have ceased use.
For maximum results and safety, I recommend taking one PCT REVOLUTION Black twice a day (morning & night) and two PURE TEST three times per day (Morning, Noon, & Night) both during your cycle and for 4 weeks after your cycle. This will amplify your gains, protect all your organs, block all estrogen and at the end maintain your gains. Also, since losing fat seems to be your primary objective, I would be throwing two ALC + CLA three times a day as well (morning, noon, & night).
Just remember, as awesome as I know our products are, at the end of the day, they only amplify the effort you are putting into your diet, weights, cardio, etc. If you are giving it 90-100% in those three categories, then you will be more than pleased with your end results!
WhatsaRoid?
Board Sponsor
Just had two of these added to my PCT Black order 
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Just had two of these added to my PCT Black order
Incredible product, my favorite FINAFLEX product in our line-up today!
Here is me before and after a 12 week cycle (mind you I was on a perfect diet and doing 1hr cardio/day on top of my 5day/week lifting schedule)
BEFORE
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AFTER
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AFTER
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Can you see that smile on my face... Yeah.. I was pleased with my results!!!
WhatsaRoid?
Board Sponsor
Are you on HRT? If a 12 week cycle, I wouldn't want to take DHT that long although I see you have less hair in the after pics :wink1: If at all I might do an 8 week cycle of this product with some test in a few months and see how things go.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Here ya go bro, this should give you a blow by blow... all the detailed information you need to show you how I went from point A (fat) to point B (ripped). As you will see, I run pretty detailed logs of what I am doing, a big reason why REDEFINE NUTRITION was so willing to give me this job as their official online REP!
I was not a REP for them when I made this log, I was just an official beta-tester, as in I came up with an awesome cycle of what I wanted to run and promised to do a step by step, day by day, every body part, every exercise, every rep, every calorie, every supplement, taking weekly body measurements and progress pictures, etc. Their response to me was that if I was willing to buy the products myself and maintain this log as accurately as I promised, they promised to reimburse me for any and all products I purchased, as well as pay me for 12 weeks of hard work and detailed log keeping, then what do you know, they offered me a job as the official online REP! (True Story)
The log that started it all, LOL...Invalid Link Removed
WhatsaRoid?
Board Sponsor
jlinteris
Member
Just spent a good chunk of my morning drinking coffee, eating fruitloops and reading your log. That was a kickass, motivating log with INSANE results. I gotta say I mildly doubted the outcome for 3 months and the final results were freakin ridiculous. More incentive for me to win the egg eating contest to get me some of those products!
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Thank you Brotha... I must say that I had a very strict training regiment and diet. I am in no way claiming it was product alone, but if you read my log, you will see that I not only dropped all that fat, but actually gained lean muscle in the process and that my friend was more than proof enough that EPI-V not only worked, but worked well!!!
Good Luck with the Egg eating contest, I know you already know from your previous attempt, 10 eggs is going to be crazy hard to beat! I mean I'm right there with you, I got 8 down and honestly don't think even if I practiced every day that I could beat 10!
jlinteris
Member
Yeah there was a ****load of hard work in that log. The muscle maintained and added was a selling feature for me. Everytime I cut I get lanky and lose muscle fast! WHEN I win this contest I am planning on picking up the rest of the needed supps that you ran in your log. Those before and after pics go along ways with grabbing attention.
Oh, and as for the eggs... I bought large and compared them to the XL i ate.. should be able to stuff atleast 10 into my fat mouth. lol
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Thank you and good luck Bro, I mean we used Grade A Large not XL's in our little contest and I only got 8 eggs, all the power to you, but remember, you need 11 to beet it, 10 only ties it and I give it to the first person who gets the highest number of eggs, no ties! But no worries, I have faith in you, you can do this, it is a mental thing... just think... 1 egg every 5 seconds gives you 12 eggs!!!
Leichenwagen
New member
I'd like to see some mid progress pics. frankly your transformation is so extreme I can't be sure its you.
I just checked your log. Awesome work. I stand corrected.
I just checked your log. Awesome work. I stand corrected.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Hey no problem, believe me I had people claiming it was not possible, that I was heavier/higher body fat than I was claiming, that no one could lose that much body fat and preserve that much muscle in that time frame, etc. etc. I just did my best to keep the most accurate log as possible, all the while, trained and dieted my F@cking A$$ off and took FINAFLEX products. As I have said a million times before and will say a million times again... Do I believe that everything I achieved came from taking FINAFLEX products, that they are some kind of magic potions? HELL NO, I worked my A$$ of to get those results, but I will say this, without the assistance of FINAFLEX, there is no way in HELL that I would have preserved, much less gained 1Lb of lean muscle like I did, and that was more than enough proof for me that it is a stand-up product and has my vote!!!
...and for those of you just tuning in to the discussion, this is the thread/log we are referring to...Invalid Link Removed
DaBlizz
New member
I was doing some reading on another side and the results from EPI-V were pretty significant that I decided I wanted to try i, then a friend of mine said that he heard that if you bot 1-Andro and EPI-V together you can have pretty good results. So my question is; is it ok to take an 8 week cycle with both of them or would it be better to do a 4 week with 1-Andro and then a 4 week with EPI-V? Any help would be great.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
I would say the answer to that question lies within you "young Grass-Hoppa" What I mean is it depends on what your ultimate goals are? I am sure you have looked at my 12wk pre-contest log I have linked to on this thread on like 2-3 occasions, well I did 6 weeks of 1-ANDRO and then 6 weeks of EPI-V. My goal was to lose as much weight and retain as much muscle as possible in 12 weeks, the reason why I split them up is because as minimum as it might be, the 1-ANDRO will add a little water, so if you are skinny, no worries a little water is good for you, but if you are heavyset, then excess water can make all the difference in the world to how you look. So why did I even take the 1-ANDRO at all, two reasons: 1) I knew I wanted to run 12 weeks worth of anabolics, they might look the same if you look at the back label, but they are not, the alpha in the EPI-V ingredient changes it to a completely different compound with different effects and different receptor sites, so knowing this... 2) I took the 1-ANDRO when I was in the first 6 wks of my dieting down where I was less concerned with water retention, then switched over to EPI-V for the final 6 wks so I would be as lean and hard at the end of the entire 12 week cycle. If I wasn't trying to be ridiculous and get competition ready in record time and did just one normal cycle, I would have just done the EPI-V with my build/genetics. I mean what can I say... it works for me.
Here are a few different scenarios for you, hopefully this will answer your original question clearly and completely.
- If you are trying to remain the exact same bodyfat, but want to put on some lean mass then cycle 1-ANDRO & EPI-V together (1/2 & 1/2). The diuretics in the EPI-V will counteract any water retention from the 1-ANDRO.
- If you are skinny/super lean and you only want to put on Mass...mass...more mass, then just go 1-ANDRO the whole way and don't even worry about EPI-V.
- If you are like me and always a little on the heavyset side by nature, then take EPI-V the whole way and don't even worry about 1-ANDRO.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
No... I am confused! What have I said in the past that might lead you to think that?
spezzy
Member
Whatsaroid asked you near the top of the page if you were and you did not answer that part of his question. I feel that results may have been skewed if you were on HRT due to consistent testosterone levels, which is why I asked.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Oh, my bad, I didn't mean to avoid that question, must not have caught it when I read it! No, I am not on any sort of HRT (hormone replacement therapy). I have taken other things in my past, but during the run of that log I wasn't taking any additional products other than the FINAFLEX products I listed. I agree completely, if I were, it would most definitely skew my results!
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Not sure if it was the 1st 6 weeks on the 1-ANDRO or the 2nd 6 weeks on the EPI-V, but for the last 4 of the 12 week cut phase, Labido was non-existant. Thank you Cialis and Viagra for saving my marriage, LoL
I was taking the PCT REVOLUTION Black the entire time, but I think I was taking too much for too long and the PCT Black doesn't have enough Test booster in it, not as much as our PURE TEST, which was not out yet when I did that cut cycle. If I were to do it again, I would just add PURE TEST to the mix and I doubt with that addition I would have experienced any drop in Labido!
michael05
New member
hey scottydoc i have a question. im a new member and new to the finafelx family.
i am taking epi-v and pro xanthine together. i was told to take them 3 times a day (morning, afternoon, and evening right before the gym). is this too much to take in one day? should i cut it down to twice a day? i am also taking no ignite 15 mins before my workoust session. just wondering what your toughts are. appreciate the info.
i am taking epi-v and pro xanthine together. i was told to take them 3 times a day (morning, afternoon, and evening right before the gym). is this too much to take in one day? should i cut it down to twice a day? i am also taking no ignite 15 mins before my workoust session. just wondering what your toughts are. appreciate the info.
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Which one are you taking 3 x's a day? I personally do not think you should take either the PRO-XANTHINE or EPI-V in the evening time as it can and probably will mess up your sleep and that is a very important time of muscle recovery and growth that you really don't want to mess with, not to mention... not getting enough sleep at night feels like $hit!
I'll try to answer your question based on my recommended way of taking those two products together, which work awesome together for burning fat! OK, I would take 4 caps of EPI-V per day (2 caps first thing in the morning and then another 2 caps as late in the day as long as it is 8hrs before you intend to sleep). With the PRO-XANTHINE, it is a little harder to say, because it depends on your present level of tolerance. If you told me you had no tolerance to stimulants, that you have not taken any stimulants in the form of a fat-burner in 3 or more months, then I would say start with just one PRO-XANTHINE cap in the morning, then as you start to build a tolerance, start taking a 2nd cap approx. 8hrs after the first cap, then as tolerance continues to build, up it to 2 caps first thing in the morning and 1 cap 8hrs later, I would not personally exceed 3 caps of PRO-XANTHINE per day! Hope this answers your question, that was the best I could do considering I wasn't 100% sure which product you were referring to when you said you were taking 3 caps a day.
michael05
New member
i was told to take both of them 3 times a day. so it would be 1 epi-v and 1 pro xanthine 3x a day. it would work out to 1 and 1 at 9am. 1 and 1 at around 1pm. 1 and 1 around 8pm which is right before i would go to the gym and take no ignite. i have taken stimulants in the past 3 months. i was on animal cuts in Febuaray. so i would say my tolerance is in the mid range. it just seems like taking both of these 3x a day is to much especially that last dose being very close to the end of day and right before i would drink no ignite. im thinking about cutting out the 3rd dose and just taking them 2x a day. im guessing morning and evening around 4 pm. what do you think?
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
With EPI-V, I would up it a cap a day (4 caps/day total) split it up at least twice. With PRO XANTHINE, well that again depends on your tolerance, if you are doing fine with 3 a day, sure keep it that way, just make sure your 3rd dose is at least 8hrs before bed and you should be fine if you are used to stims, you will know if you can't sleep and then my recommendation is to drop down a pill or just 2 caps in the morning and 1 around mid day, that is what worked best for me personally, remember everyone and their body's are different, so what works incredible for me, might not work well for another, typically I find that heavyset easy gainers, but hard losers like myself all seem to be similar, but sometimes as similar as we might be, others are more or less sensitive to stims than others, see how difficult it can be to give exact advice when concerning a stimulant based fat-burner. This is why I always advise starting off slow and gradually picking up speed!
Trust me on the EPI-V, you will be happier increasing your dose, with the PRO-XANTHINE, just start off low and slowly increase, play with the dose/time thing to determine your own sensitivities!
Good Luck and your gonna Love the results! Also, if you have any nutritional/dieting questions, I offer my services to you, or I'll do my best to help you, not my first Rodeo!!!
dryates
New member
hey scotty,
I have finished my 1-andro portions a few days ago and have started the epi-v. As you know i split my dosing of the andro to 4 times a day with my last before bed. I was wondering what is the optimal dosing times for the epi-v i am doing 4 caps a day?
just so you know i have gotten up to a solid 164 on the andro and am hoping to keep it all as i have put on 0 fat even though i was consuming a retarded amount of cals.
i was also wondering what my water intake should be on epi-v? I average around 6 liters a day, but i understand epi-v has a diuretic and i have never tried to help a diuretic flush water. It would be nice to see my skin thinned of water a bit.
I have finished my 1-andro portions a few days ago and have started the epi-v. As you know i split my dosing of the andro to 4 times a day with my last before bed. I was wondering what is the optimal dosing times for the epi-v i am doing 4 caps a day?
just so you know i have gotten up to a solid 164 on the andro and am hoping to keep it all as i have put on 0 fat even though i was consuming a retarded amount of cals.
i was also wondering what my water intake should be on epi-v? I average around 6 liters a day, but i understand epi-v has a diuretic and i have never tried to help a diuretic flush water. It would be nice to see my skin thinned of water a bit.
michael05
New member
thanks scotty that helped a lot.
i broke it down to 4 epi-v a day. 1 in the morning 1 in the afternoon and 2 before i go to the gym and 3 pro-xanthine a day. 1 in the morning 1 in the afternoon and then another 1 mid evening (4pm).
On non lifting days should i still take the same dosage or should i cut it down since im not working out?
i broke it down to 4 epi-v a day. 1 in the morning 1 in the afternoon and 2 before i go to the gym and 3 pro-xanthine a day. 1 in the morning 1 in the afternoon and then another 1 mid evening (4pm).
On non lifting days should i still take the same dosage or should i cut it down since im not working out?
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Wait??? You are taking a PRO-XANTHINE mid evening (4pm)? What time do you go to bed and is it not affecting your sleep? I mean the EPI-V sounds like a good dose as it has way less stims in it than our PRO-XANTHINE! All I will say is just be careful not to mess with your sleep cycles, I mean lack of sleep can hinder your lean muscle gains, when you sleep is when all your muscle building and recovery takes place, but like I always say, you may know your body and tolerances better than I do, I just warn caution in taking stims too late in the day, please be careful, just looking out for you Bro!
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
OK, I have two suggestions for you my friend. 1) Since you didn't put on a single Lb of fat while gaining muscle on 1-ANDRO, I would place you in the hard-gainer, but easy-loss category. Meaning it is easier for you to lose fat and remain lean than it is to pack on muscle! With that being said, I would increase your calories even more while on the EPI-V. But make sure you increase them with more protein than anything of course. 2) As far as the water is concerned, I would increase your water. I cannot remember the exact break-down of liters to gallons, but when I'm on a serious cut I always do my absolute best to try and down 3 gallons or as close as humanly possible. If you do those two things, you might only put on about half as much lean muscle gains as you did with the 1-ANDRO, but even with the increase calories, you should get much leaner and harder, I'm talking veiny, onion skin, pre-contest kind of look if you are already below 10%, which from what you said you are there, right? If I am wrong with my assumptions, please correct me and I'll do my best to re-calculate a new plan to help you achieve the goals you are looking to achieve, I'm here for you Bro!!!
michael05
New member
my 3rd and last pro-xanthine is at 4pm. im in the gym from 8:30-11 and i pass out by midnight. i usually get between 71/2 - 8 hours of sleep before i have to go to work. the 1st time it affected my sleep but in the past couple of days it hasnt.
What about on non work out days? i lift 5 days a week, should i be taking the same amount of supps on the days i dont lift?
ScottyDoc
Well-known member
Yes, I would take the same amount of sups on non-training days, but you may want to change the timing or even skip that 4pm evening dose of PRO-XANTHINE on those days to not interfere with your sleep. As far as the training days, your body seems to have acclimated to it just fine and if it is not affecting your extremely important sleep, then by all means continue as planned! As I believe almost any and every expert would agree, your sleep is most important, besides you burn the most fat when you are in REM sleep, so if it affects your sleep, I believe it may actually be counter-productive in the long-run! Just looking out for ya Big-Guy!
UponThisRock
New member
It seems like EPI-V just went up around 10 bucks on the Nutraplanet site... I wonder why???
-utr
-utr