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Pulsing Epi w/ IF diet

Legacyfighter

Legacyfighter

Active member
I'm considering pulsing epistane for 6 weeks like this.
MWF
Week 1 (10,20,30mg)
Week 2 (30,30,30mg)
Week 3 (30,30,30mg)
Week 4 (40,40,40mg)
Week 5 (40,40,40mg)
Week 6 (40,40,40mg)
Week 7 (30,20,20mg)

or...

MWFS
Week 1 (10,20,30,30)
Week 2 (30,30,30,30)
Week 3 (30,30,30,30)
Week 4 (40,40,40,40)
Week 5 (40,40,40,40)
Week 6 (40,40,40,40)
Week 7 (30,30,20,20)

This is my first cycle of any sort. So I'm looking for something with minimal sides, since I dont know how my body will react. I figured pulsing epi has my best reward/risk ratio.

I'm trying to decide when the best time to take the epi would be and whether I should go with pulsing 3 days a week or 4 days a week. There are two major issues with the timing of each dose. First off, I diet IF style. Meaning I dont eat anything till around 1 or 2pm everyday, and I eat till 9 or 10pm. I also workout twice a day on all of my workout days. My first session each day is at 2 or 3pm. My second session will be around 8-9 pm. I workout, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday.

So, my major question is when should I pulse. Before each workout? After each workout? First thing in the morning? Also, should I pulse 3 days a week or 4 days a week. I will be taking a light liver care supplement. I'll also end up taking ZMA every day and a tribulus type supp on my off days.

I know this is alot of questions, but I haven't found anyone else who has these factors to work around. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
I should probably add that this cycle is mostly for recomp. Because of my meal and workout spacing, ALL of my calories come in peri workout. So the rest of the day i'm in fat burning mode.

I'm 5'8 202 pounds and 14-15% bf, tested in a bod pod.
 
Keep it at, at least 40mg throughout entire pulse.
You could even go 8 weeks and be fine.
When you pulse, you want to dose higher than normal and the epithio compound is mild..
Take lots of fish oil ED.

Spread epi dose out throughout the day, with at least 20mg pre workout for a little boost.

What does your PCT look like?
 
I'm actually still trying to decide on what kind of PCT to use. I've read sooo many different things. I'm thinking possibly something like Retain, even though that may be a bit overkill. During PCT, i'll keep taking zma and possibly tribulus. If I feel a moderate amount of suppresion, i'll take retain and zma. If its mild suppression, i'll take zma and tribulus.

I may do 1week pct with retain, then drop to zma and tribulus for 1 week, then just zma.
 
Legacyfighter said:
I'm actually still trying to decide on what kind of PCT to use. I've read sooo many different things. I'm thinking possibly something like Retain, even though that may be a bit overkill. During PCT, i'll keep taking zma and possibly tribulus. If I feel a moderate amount of suppresion, i'll take retain and zma. If its mild suppression, i'll take zma and tribulus.

I may do 1week pct with retain, then drop to zma and tribulus for 1 week, then just zma.
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Not enough bro!
Get clomid: 50/50/50/50

Or try PP TRS stack and make sure to get transdermal sustain alpha.
Or Nedtobuild muscle has HCGenerate which supposedly keeps your balls full on cycle, which would be a strong PCT choice.
 
JCunningham said:
Keep it at, at least 40mg throughout entire pulse.
You could even go 8 weeks and be fine.
When you pulse, you want to dose higher than normal and the epithio compound is mild..
Take lots of fish oil ED.

Spread epi dose out throughout the day, with at least 20mg pre workout for a little boost.

What does your PCT look like?
Click to expand...


if yall would have read the 'how to pulse orals' thread you would know that you want your doses close together, not spread out. this will make the steroid clear quicker out of your system to help minimize shutdown. you want it in, and out as quick as possible. so you dose before and after your workouts.
 
soontobbeast said:
if yall would have read the 'how to pulse orals' thread you would know that you want your doses close together, not spread out. this will make the steroid clear quicker out of your system to help minimize shutdown. you want it in, and out as quick as possible. so you dose before and after your workouts.
Click to expand...

If you read my post, you would see that I work out twice a day every workout day. So do i take it before and after each workout? or just chose one workout to take it around.
 
soontobbeast said:
if yall would have read the 'how to pulse orals' thread you would know that you want your doses close together, not spread out. this will make the steroid clear quicker out of your system to help minimize shutdown. you want it in, and out as quick as possible. so you dose before and after your workouts.
Click to expand...

Haha, I have read that.
But what is writ is not set in stone.
All a matter of opinion and personal preference..
 
JCunningham said:
Not enough bro!
Get clomid: 50/50/50/50

Or try PP TRS stack and make sure to get transdermal sustain alpha.
Or Nedtobuild muscle has HCGenerate which supposedly keeps your balls full on cycle, which would be a strong PCT choice.
Click to expand...

You obviously know more about this than I do. But EVERYTHING i've been reading about epistane, especially when pulsing is that you don't need much PCT. Sometimes when pulsing it isn't needed at all. The most common thing i'm finding is that the PCT after epi should be a cortisol blocker and maybe an herbal test increaser.
 
Legacyfighter said:
You obviously know more about this than I do. But EVERYTHING i've been reading about epistane, especially when pulsing is that you don't need much PCT. Sometimes when pulsing it isn't needed at all. The most common thing i'm finding is that the PCT after epi should be a cortisol blocker and maybe an herbal test increaser.
Click to expand...

I just am better safe than sorry..
And serm is cheaper than any decent herbal..

But if you must, look up HCGenerate.. I have seen some reviews and that one looks promising..
 
I understand that its great to be better safe than sorry, but I honestly have no idea how I would get clomid. I would much rather stick with an OTC.
 
Legacyfighter said:
I understand that its great to be better safe than sorry, but I honestly have no idea how I would get clomid. I would much rather stick with an OTC.
Click to expand...

h t t p : / / w w w . needtobuildmuscle.com/store/-HCGenerate-p45 . h t m l

I dont know of any OTC stuff thats real good but I know that stuff looks promising..

Remove spaces.
 
I just looked up HCGenerate. It looks really promising, i've even looked at some reviews for it. I'm not sure that I can afford it yet. From what i'm reading, it almost sounds too good. IF i were to take HCGenerate. When would I start taking it? during cycle or immediately post cycle? also at what dosage?
 
Legacyfighter said:
I just looked up HCGenerate. It looks really promising, i've even looked at some reviews for it. I'm not sure that I can afford it yet. From what i'm reading, it almost sounds too good. IF i were to take HCGenerate. When would I start taking it? during cycle or immediately post cycle? also at what dosage?
Click to expand...

Well if you dont have a lot of money, take it after your cycle for PCT.. The bottle says 5 caps a day, so I am guessing take a few caps in the AM and a couple in the PM..
 
Ok cool deal. i'll definitely continue to look into it. By the way, thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it.

If anyone else has more advice, please feel free to chime in.
 
This cycle looks like an epic fail. Why are you working out twice a day? It's not smart, IF is a great protocol but if your following the best IF protocol Martin reccomends one workout either fasted in morning followed by 50% total cals, or working out with pwo being meal 2. There's no way that you should lift twice on one day natty or pulsing epi. If you were running a strong steroid straight it you might get away with it.

I think epi is a horrible choice to pulse. I dislike pulses but if your going to do it you need something stronger SD is perfect for pulsing. I have personally ran epi at 40-50 straight and it took over three weeks to do anything so imagine pulsing would be worthless on me.

Retain is not a strong pct. Yeah keeping your steroids in the morning will minimize shutdown but it's still best to have a real pct Imo just to make sure you recover.

IMO change hormone, workout once a day at most, get real pct.
 
ZamaMan said:
This cycle looks like an epic fail. Why are you working out twice a day? It's not smart, IF is a great protocol but if your following the best IF protocol Martin reccomends one workout either fasted in morning followed by 50% total cals, or working out with pwo being meal 2. There's no way that you should lift twice on one day natty or pulsing epi. If you were running a strong steroid straight it you might get away with it.

I think epi is a horrible choice to pulse. I dislike pulses but if your going to do it you need something stronger SD is perfect for pulsing. I have personally ran epi at 40-50 straight and it took over three weeks to do anything so imagine pulsing would be worthless on me.

Retain is not a strong pct. Yeah keeping your steroids in the morning will minimize shutdown but it's still best to have a real pct Imo just to make sure you recover.

IMO change hormone, workout once a day at most, get real pct.
Click to expand...

I've been working out twice a day 5 times a week for months now. I already hold the same muscle mass as you and i'm 5 inches shorter. I work with the best minds in sports performance. EVERY piece of data shows that working out twice a day is superior to working out only once. I'm probably doing the same volume as most people, but split over two sessions.

I'm not concerned with the training aspect. It is taken care of, trust me on this. I'm not concerned with the nutrition aspect either. It is in place as well. The epi cycle and PCT are all i'm worried about.

IF it took you 3 weeks to notice anything from epi, why would you suggest a stronger PCT? it doesnt add up.
 
Wow why ask questions if you don't want people to comment? You got as much lbm as me... Got for you you want an award? I'm heavier than Lyle mcdonald so that must mean I know more than him right? You seem to think so. I'm happy with gainig 25lb+ of muscle in my first 10 months of lifting, that's of course with 2 cuts. I'm happy with my results, and plan on gaining another 20lb lbm in year two. II learn from people like Lyle, Alan and Martin so I'm not sure who in the world you think is a brighter mind in this feild than them as I have found no one in my hundreds and hundreds of hours of research and study.

Enjoy your workouts twice a day IMO it's not ideal, especially given the level of intensity i prefer to train at. However if someone wants to adjust volume and intensity for higher freqency so be it. I agree the more workouts you can get in a year the more you'll grow up to a point of the max an individual can heal and grow. I prefer 2x per muscle group ever 8 days at most.

I reccomend a serm to people cause why not be safire if it's only 25 bucks? I think it's foolish to want to be shut down any longer than needed because you don't want to spend 25 bucks.

Just because it didn't give me gains till week three doesn't mean I wasn't shut down. In fact I feel I was based on huge lathargy real soon. I got gains late because I don't aparantly respond well to epi. Others get gains a little sooner, however I feel based on peoples experiances and common sense that pulsing works better with compounds that give stronger results and quicker.

But clearly your smarter than me and oviously your surrounded by the brightest minds in the world so don't take my reccomendations. Enjoy your cycle.
 
ZamaMan said:
Wow why ask questions if you don't want people to comment? You got as much lbm as me... Got for you you want an award? I'm heavier than Lyle mcdonald so that must mean I know more than him right? You seem to think so. I'm happy with gainig 25lb+ of muscle in my first 10 months of lifting, that's of course with 2 cuts. I'm happy with my results, and plan on gaining another 20lb lbm in year two. II learn from people like Lyle, Alan and Martin so I'm not sure who in the world you think is a brighter mind in this feild than them as I have found no one in my hundreds and hundreds of hours of research and study.

Enjoy your workouts twice a day IMO it's not ideal, especially given the level of intensity i prefer to train at. However if someone wants to adjust volume and intensity for higher freqency so be it. I agree the more workouts you can get in a year the more you'll grow up to a point of the max an individual can heal and grow. I prefer 2x per muscle group ever 8 days at most.

I reccomend a serm to people cause why not be safire if it's only 25 bucks? I think it's foolish to want to be shut down any longer than needed because you don't want to spend 25 bucks.

Just because it didn't give me gains till week three doesn't mean I wasn't shut down. In fact I feel I was based on huge lathargy real soon. I got gains late because I don't aparantly respond well to epi. Others get gains a little sooner, however I feel based on peoples experiances and common sense that pulsing works better with compounds that give stronger results and quicker.

But clearly your smarter than me and oviously your surrounded by the brightest minds in the world so don't take my reccomendations. Enjoy your cycle.
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First of all, you did not offer any nutritional advice. You assume that I have done no research and know nothing about training. If you've been training for 10 months, and have done as many hundreds of hours of research, then you should know its stupid for you to have completed several cycles at such a young training age.

Breaking your volume up into two workouts a day, is still ideal. Research it, if you think i'm wrong. Also, please for your sake, don't believe everything that lyle, and alan put out there. Look at the research and interpret it for yourself. I've noticed several fallacies when they "interpret" the data for you.

Now, what I am interested in is finding a serm for $25. That, I can afford. I would still like to find a cortisol blocker, because from my research that tends to be the biggest problem after an epi cycle.
 
I'm working on finding the research. I've got it laying around somewhere.

Basically, a lifting session will increase your testosterone levels and your metabolism to a certain extent, this plateaus after about 30 minutes of lifting. After two hours, these levels are almost back to baseline. This means, that if you have two 30 minute lifting sessions, you will see a rise in testosterone levels for twice the amount of time, and your metabolism will be boosted for twice the amount of time. Obviously very effective for building muscle, and staying lean.

Possibly even more important than that is the fact that splitting your total volume up into two sessions allows you to use MORE intensity and INCREASES recovery. Almost everyone has heard of German Volume Training and knows that its 10x10. Well, thats partly wrong. VERY few people can recover from that kind of volume in one session. What the Germans did, as well as other strength athletes who adapted this training approach, was to split the 10x10 into two sessions of 5x10. It decreases CNS fatigue, increases recovery, and increases the amount of weight that they could use for their sets.

Maybe you guys would freak out less if I told you that my two a day training sessions are split up like this. (chest & shoulders day)

AM:
Seated Military: 6x5
Incline Bench: 6x5
Flat Bench: 6x5 then Max rep set

PM:
Incline Flies:3-5x8
Flies: 3-5x8
DB Laterals: 3-5x8
Facepulls; 3x15
 
My suggestion as someone who has ran a pulse. Up the dose and take them around ur workouts. Also just because u r running a pulse doesnt give u an excuse to not run a good PCT. HCGenerate ftw!
 
Tomahawk, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely be upping the dose. It will be 15mg for the first day, 30 for the next two, then 45 for the reamainder. If progress stalls, I MIGHT up it to 60, but thats getting pretty high imo.

I'm seriously considering HCGenerate, just not sure whether it would be better for me to use a cortisol blocker, plus a weaker test booster.
 
Legacyfighter said:
Tomahawk, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely be upping the dose. It will be 15mg for the first day, 30 for the next two, then 45 for the reamainder. If progress stalls, I MIGHT up it to 60, but thats getting pretty high imo.

I'm seriously considering HCGenerate, just not sure whether it would be better for me to use a cortisol blocker, plus a weaker test booster.
Click to expand...

Well I love my Epi dosed HIGH...

Id say get HCGenerate plus Erase by PES. Start HCGenerate day 1 of PCT and Erase week 3.
 
For those who wanted the info on twice a day lifting being superior to once daily, here it is:

h t t p : / / journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/1999/08000/Manipulating_Resistance_Training_Program_Variables.19.aspx

h t t p : / / w w w .springerlink.com/content/q5140084617u475x/ (you wont find it in the abstract, but it does go on to say that twice daily sessions are superior for hormonal reasons and intensity reasons)

There are a few more that suggest it, because it leads to a favorable increases in free and total testosterone.
 
After looking at about 100 more epi logs and pulse logs, i'm thinking something like this, using epi strong, cycle support, erase, and recycle.

Week 1 Epi(15,15,30)
Week 2 Epi(30,30,30)
Week 3 Epi(30,30,30)
Week 4 Epi(45,45,45)
Week 5 Epi(45,45,45) Recycle (2 caps on off days)
Week 6 Epi(45,45,45) Recycle (4 caps on off days)
PCT
Week 1-3 Recycle 4 caps daily
Week 4-6 Erase

Cycle support will be taken on days between pulses.

I may taper erase down towards week 6 just to ensure that there will not be some crazy negative rebound effect.
 
What's the reason for taking cycle support on off days only? This is the first I've seen of it being done this way.
 
I've read that some of the ingredients in cycle support can block some of the receptors for the epi, thus making epi less effective.
 
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