MuscleHead1984
New member
If Peak Performace labs promagnon-25 is the same as Haladrol-50 wouldn't they be selling out of it? Has anyone actually tried or know for a fact if they are the same thing? Thanks guys!
promagnon-25
- Thread starter MuscleHead1984
- Start date
Alpine
Active member
Modoc said:
Guys, wake up. These seperate brands are just tools to seperate a company from possible "negative" press or associations with certain not so stable products. For instance, selling DMT (former designer steroid) directly to the public (PheraPlex lol). In these cases the company can make money but not tarnish their name/image.
Gaspari is now likely selling under another name. It appears to be the same product but at 25mg instead of 50.
Its just like Designer Supplements and Anabolic Xtreme. Hasnt anyone else noticed this? Its just smart business....
motiv8er
Well-known member
ProMagnon 25 60 Tablets $52.99
Click to enlarge
Advanced Body Composition Altering Substrate
STRONGER THAN HALODROL!
Bio-Engineered Lean Mass, Strength, and Hardening Agent
ProMagnon-25™ is a highly effective lean mass and strength enhancing catalyst, scientifically engineered to support rapid gains in muscle strength, size, and power. Because ProMagnon-25™ cannot aromatize to estrogen, water retention (and the soft, puffy, bloated look that goes with it) is minimized. In addition to exceptional mass and strength gains, users may also notice marked increases in energy levels, endurance, libido, and lipolysis (fat loss). As with most dietary supplements, ProMagnon-25™ is intended to compliment a proper die qt and training program.
IMPORTANT: Professional and amateur athletes subject to performance enhancing substance testing should consult with their sanctioning body before using this product as use of such may cause a reactive drug test.
Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Servings Per Container: 60
Amount Per Serving
4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene-3, 17b-diol 25mg
Peak Performance Support Blend 505mg
(L-tyrosine, tonkat ali extract, ATP disodium, alpha lipoic acid)
Other Ingredients: dicalcium phosphate, sorbitol, croscarmelose sodium, magnesium stearate, stearic acid.
Warnings: Consult with your physician before using this product, particularly if you are taking any prescription medications. Do not take this product if you have prostate hypertrophy, liver disease, blood pressure, high cholesterol, cardiovascular disease or are being treated for any psychiatric conditions. Not for use by women.
This product was added to our catalog on Tuesday 27 December, 2005
Alright, who's feeling like a lucky tester??
Click to enlarge
Advanced Body Composition Altering Substrate
STRONGER THAN HALODROL!
Bio-Engineered Lean Mass, Strength, and Hardening Agent
ProMagnon-25™ is a highly effective lean mass and strength enhancing catalyst, scientifically engineered to support rapid gains in muscle strength, size, and power. Because ProMagnon-25™ cannot aromatize to estrogen, water retention (and the soft, puffy, bloated look that goes with it) is minimized. In addition to exceptional mass and strength gains, users may also notice marked increases in energy levels, endurance, libido, and lipolysis (fat loss). As with most dietary supplements, ProMagnon-25™ is intended to compliment a proper die qt and training program.
IMPORTANT: Professional and amateur athletes subject to performance enhancing substance testing should consult with their sanctioning body before using this product as use of such may cause a reactive drug test.
Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Servings Per Container: 60
Amount Per Serving
4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene-3, 17b-diol 25mg
Peak Performance Support Blend 505mg
(L-tyrosine, tonkat ali extract, ATP disodium, alpha lipoic acid)
Other Ingredients: dicalcium phosphate, sorbitol, croscarmelose sodium, magnesium stearate, stearic acid.
Warnings: Consult with your physician before using this product, particularly if you are taking any prescription medications. Do not take this product if you have prostate hypertrophy, liver disease, blood pressure, high cholesterol, cardiovascular disease or are being treated for any psychiatric conditions. Not for use by women.
This product was added to our catalog on Tuesday 27 December, 2005
Alright, who's feeling like a lucky tester??
jonny21
Registered User
Sounds like a lot of Bullshit and conjecture surrounding this topic. I also doubt the FDA requested a reduced amount of steroid. But, give the sheeple what they want.
edit:
Does not even make sense from a business standpoint. Why re-release Halodrol and this new product at the same time. Something fishy going on here, imo
edit:
Does not even make sense from a business standpoint. Why re-release Halodrol and this new product at the same time. Something fishy going on here, imo
BHERTZ
Member
As far as I can tell (IMO) halodrol is 50mg of a methylated product...that just doesnt seem right. i mean think about it - 50mg of SD or M1T is unheard of.
Gaspari probably realized he was promoting death in a bottle, and decided to phase out H-50 (notice you can only find it for $100+) and introduce P-25 under some weird pseudo name...that way the buzz about H-50 is still alive but in a safer product...let's find some guinea pigs now haha
Gaspari probably realized he was promoting death in a bottle, and decided to phase out H-50 (notice you can only find it for $100+) and introduce P-25 under some weird pseudo name...that way the buzz about H-50 is still alive but in a safer product...let's find some guinea pigs now haha
jonny21
Registered User
Halodrol not Promagnon is on presale @ board sponsors now for <$100 if I am not mistaken. What's the difference between taking 2-25mg tabs or 1-50mg tabs? The halodrol tabs were scored for easy splitting. I think the logic regarding the decrease in dosage is off a bit. And by the way, taking 50mg of methylated AAS is commonplace.BHERTZ said:
Alpine
Active member
BHERTZ said:
Ya, youre way off. The main reason he pulled the product was all the negative press and articles (Washington Post) regarding H-50. It got a lot of bad attention right out of the gate. It has nothing to do with the saftey. This is basically OT. SD would be far worse in terms of sides from what I have seen and from what other better qualified "gurus" have said regarding it. The naming Gaspari chose has really given some folks a bad (misguided) impression of this product. This could be another factor that led to the new product design.
3clipseGT
On my grind
BHERTZ said:
Ive taken up to 40mgs of SD and never had any problems. You also have no case when you say 50mgs for a methylated product is not commonplace because MDHT can be dosed very high. I used it a 100mgs as did Glenihan i beleive. What about M1,4add? People and i myself have used upwords of 230 or more mgs. Thats WAAYYY over 50mgs. Also Oral Turinabol is not as harsh on the liver as M1T or SD, and i bet some people will use HD-50 at 100mgs or so to test it out.
No offense but ur post is not of good info as ur way off base bro. Not trying to be a dick just stating some facts.
3clipseGT
On my grind
BHERTZ said:
Hey bro its all good man, all good. I never even went that high on M1T but never really used it that much honestly. SD on the other hand just wasnt something i responded to well so i had to up the dosage quite a bit. 15 mgs is good id say. 50Mgs of M1T would be liver poison and jaundice in a bottle probly!
jonny21
Registered User
Let's talk about common dosages for oral AAS:BHERTZ said:
Winstrol/Stanazol--50-100mg/daily
Anavar: 20-50mg/day, I've heard people take more
Anadrol:50--150mg/day
Dianabol: 15-50mg/day
OT: 50mg+/day
Since when? How does the 1970's sound?
I have yet to see a thread where someone had liver issues to the extent that you mention. I have seen logs where people have had slight elevations in liver enzymes taking up to 40mg/day.
E-Swift25
New member
BHERTZ said:
In my opinion, yes that's being too cautious. That's just me though. Personally, I would feel like I'm cheating myself if I used such a low dose. There's nothing wrong with using that dose because safety is important. I just feel you could reasonly up the dose with minimal risk. For me, 30mg was always a solid dosage with low sides.
BodyWizard
Registered User
hasn't she been scrubbed?
BHERTZ
Member
for everyone who insists on beating a dead horse (i.e. naming every possible old school 'real' cycle >50mg) please calm down...
the basis for my f-ing comment was to try and promote some sort of safety with these NEW "LEGAL" DESIGNER ORALS....if you have a disposable prostate, and liver then good for you.
thats all, i wish this thread would get back to P-25, and whether or not its even a good deal, if anyone has yet to purchase a bottle, etc....
the basis for my f-ing comment was to try and promote some sort of safety with these NEW "LEGAL" DESIGNER ORALS....if you have a disposable prostate, and liver then good for you.
thats all, i wish this thread would get back to P-25, and whether or not its even a good deal, if anyone has yet to purchase a bottle, etc....
jonny21
Registered User
I'll assume you were refering to my post. First take a look back sport and it would appear that your remarks caused this silly little tangent. Second if you are going to make it sound like you know what you are talking about at least do a little research to get some background info. Third, apply a little common sense and arithmetic to find if it is a good deal.
60X25=1500mg Promagnon
30X50=1500mg Halodrol
Whichever one is cheaper is the better deal.
60X25=1500mg Promagnon
30X50=1500mg Halodrol
Whichever one is cheaper is the better deal.
bearmeat
Member
BHERTZ said:
Apparently it is NOT the exact same thing. Bruce Kneller and Bill Llewellyn both have said it is not the same chemically (you can decide whether you can take their word for it). You can compare the two actives yourself.
ProMagnon-25: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17b-diol
Halodrol-50: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol
Bill on BB.com: If that chemical name is correct, it is not the same thing as Halodrol. This lacks a 1-ene. It is a precursor to 4-chloromethyltestosterone (a methylated derrivative of Clostebol/Megagrisevit Mono) instead.
Bruce on BB.com: The PPL product is the 4-halogenated precursor to 4-chloro-methyltestosterone while the GN product is the 4-halogenated precursor to Oral Turinabol.
Alpine
Active member
bearmeat said:
I just looked at BK's posts on BB.com also. It looks like they did change the active. It was easily overlooked because the structure name was very similair.
P-25 is actually Megagrisevit Mono (aka clostebol) but methylated. BigCat did a write up on MegaMo but you have to remember this isnt the Exact same compound. It could be much different since its a methyl.
Invalid Link Removed
Methylation can alter how certain compounds behave. Still, this product is much less exciting since it's not a direct precursor to OT. 25mg of 4-chloro-methyltestosterone is much less appealing than 50mg of the previous compound (even if it had some DMT in it).
All in all its a fairly close alternative. BK himself has this to say on the comparison.
BHERTZ
Member
Great find. So in everyone's opinion with the active ingredient in P-25 being shown to have 1 less double bond, is halo the better product, or does it become inferior?
I guess the price would affect this as well, but let's just say cost-aside, bottle for bottle, what would be more desirable? I assume P-25's affects might be hard to justify because it's chemical cousin in Big Cat's write-up[listed in Alpine's thread] got fairly poor reviews??
i.e.-
This steroid is understandably weak and with little to offer to a serious user of anabolic steroids. Although it does offer us a form of testosterone that is perfectly fine to use under all circumstances when cutting. Its not a very userfriendly drug however.
Building on this, can anyone comment on how severe the methylation modification can make (namely in the 4-CMT vs. P-25 example)?? Increased sides above and beyond basic 4-CMT?
I guess the price would affect this as well, but let's just say cost-aside, bottle for bottle, what would be more desirable? I assume P-25's affects might be hard to justify because it's chemical cousin in Big Cat's write-up[listed in Alpine's thread] got fairly poor reviews??
i.e.-
This steroid is understandably weak and with little to offer to a serious user of anabolic steroids. Although it does offer us a form of testosterone that is perfectly fine to use under all circumstances when cutting. Its not a very userfriendly drug however.
Building on this, can anyone comment on how severe the methylation modification can make (namely in the 4-CMT vs. P-25 example)?? Increased sides above and beyond basic 4-CMT?
jonny21
Registered User
Are you implying that Gaspari decided to come out with a different product that "appears" similar to Halodrol at the same time he was re-releasing Halodrol?Alpine said:
I could be wrong but it just doesn't sound right. People have been refering to SD and how DS sold to AX But is not the same situation. DS stopped selling SD. I would need some evidence that Gaspari & PPL are linked other than assuming it and calling it fact. Especially when those saying it have no credibility whatsoever.
By the way, I have a bridge to sell. Just walking over it once and you will put on 10lbs of LBM.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
BodyWizard
Registered User
It's been understood for some 18 months (that I know of) that:BHERTZ said:
a - knowing the root compound doesn't help because
b - methylisation changes the effect of every compound; therefore
c - the nature and extent of these changes are impossible to predict - or even usefully guess at.
The take-home is that every new methylisation (& some other alterations qualify) is a black box. Until laboratory (not likely) or experiential (all we have left) results start coming in, it's anybody's guess; most of the hubbub filling that information vacuum is naked wishful-thinking and never rises to the level of speculation.
But it's fun, so we do it - but it helps to remember it's kind of a game we play while we're waiting for facts to arrive.
Alpine
Active member
jonny21 said:
I suppose it is a bit reckless to call Gaspari and PPL one in the same. However, all you need to do is look at the posts and it becomes clear. Although Gaspari and PPL may not be officially linked some things seem a little odd. The common denominator seems to be Bruce Kneller who we know has been associated with Gaspari in the past. He’s all over BB.com talking about P-25 and promoting it. It’s not very hard to see he has something to gain by its acceptance and success. I’m not saying PPL and Gaspari are truly one in the same but it’s easy to see where the formulation(s) may be originating from.
Timeline:
- Gaspari releases H-50, gets a lot of attention due to the name (Halo)
- BK can be seen pumping up H-50 and giving detailed information on it
- A barrage of bad press and negative attention hits Gaspari. It’s widely known that the product is associated with the infamous East German turanibol. Former designer steroid DMT is also detected
- Gaspari pulls the product and tells retailers to stop selling
- Internal rumors (some reportedly from Gaspari) abound that there will be a re-introduction of H-50 (or similar product)
- PPL (who? From where? virtually unknown) releases P-25 which "appears" almost identical, touted as “Halodrol substitute”- the buzz keeps being generated
- P-25 turns out to be a more benign (to outside eyes) yet comparable substitute. This new product is compared to H-50 but is less vulnerable, less "attackable"...
- Again, BK is seen posting detailed information(so soon) about P-25 and generally portraying it in a positive light (why? a competitor?)
Obviously these are just observations but it’s not hard to connect the dots. It's not hard to see why Gaspari is distancing itself from the former product and even PPL itself. Who knows, maybe im just one of those crazy conspiracy types.
In a related note - Does anyone else think its sad (and crazy) that we have to do all this detective work to figure out just what the hell it is we intend to buy and consume. Even more so, we have to research to even get a rough idea how it might behave and react in our systems? Thats just the smart buyers. Thinks of the ones who know nothing and compare it to creatine or some other "harmless" OTC supplement. Dont get me wrong, its neato to be able to buy what amounts to legal AAS. But you have to recognize the insanity and recklessness of all this. It cant be good for the future of the industry as a whole. That being said I've purchased both PP and H-50 out of sheer cusriosity.
jonny21
Registered User
BK is not promoting it he is clarifying the difference between the two. It's even mentioned that it would be a weak comparison to Halodrol if any. Stop looking for dots and trying to connect them. There are none.
I would think this sound like a more realistic scenario/timeline:
-Halodrol released under great scrutiny, all are doubtful.
-BK announces what it is, most invest
-Wow, the **** works; everyone and there mother buys it.
- bad press & rumors, production stops.
- e-bay sales >$100/box.
-what do you know, halodrol will be re-released
- PPL after seeing an opportunity figures what the f**k we will say it is the same chemical as Halodrol just less of a dose because the FDA asked us to lower the dose of prohormone, and they know the sheeple will buy it without even thinking.
- Sheeple then begin to believe the hype and make various posts on various forums reporting unsubstantiated bullshit.
I think this sounds a bit more realistic.
I would think this sound like a more realistic scenario/timeline:
-Halodrol released under great scrutiny, all are doubtful.
-BK announces what it is, most invest
-Wow, the **** works; everyone and there mother buys it.
- bad press & rumors, production stops.
- e-bay sales >$100/box.
-what do you know, halodrol will be re-released
- PPL after seeing an opportunity figures what the f**k we will say it is the same chemical as Halodrol just less of a dose because the FDA asked us to lower the dose of prohormone, and they know the sheeple will buy it without even thinking.
- Sheeple then begin to believe the hype and make various posts on various forums reporting unsubstantiated bullshit.
I think this sounds a bit more realistic.
Last edited:
Alpine
Active member
jonny21 said:
/me puts on his tinfoil hat...
your post is wrong. you fell behind yet again. its not the same compound. its a new one no other supplement company has even used yet (i think). this new unknown company came out of thin air to release a brand new prohormone resembling halodrol (from a marketing perspective). I just find it all a little too fishy. Then again, i could just be bored.
oh, btw jonny21 - Troll'D
jonny21
Registered User
Fell behind yet again? Maybe you should reread this whole thread. From what I see you and the other guy have been talking complete nonsense, bullshit & conjecture the whole time. It's probably a reading issue since it appears you only can see what you want to see. I know they are different chemicals that why I wrote "- PPL after seeing an opportunity figures what the f**k we will say it is the same chemical as Halodrol just less of a dose because the FDA asked us to lower the dose of prohormone, and they know the sheeple will buy it without even thinking. " It appears that you are one of the sheeple that believed this bullshit. Hook, line & sinker. Maybe you should leave the thinking up to those better suited.Alpine said:/me puts on his tinfoil hat...
your post is wrong. you fell behind yet again. its not the same compound. its a new one no other supplement company has even used yet (i think). this new unknown company came out of thin air to release a brand new prohormone resembling halodrol (from a marketing perspective). I just find it all a little too fishy. Then again, i could just be bored.
oh, btw jonny21 - Troll'D
Maybe as you grow up you won't be as gullible and believe everything you read.
peace
powerhouse21
Active member
ProMagnon-25
If anyone hear is actually going to buy it let me know how it goes.
If anyone hear is actually going to buy it let me know how it goes.
yeahright
Well-known member
Well, I have no idea who Peak Performance Labs are but it is odd to see the Gaspari reps on the board answering questions comparing and contrasting with Halodrol. If promagnon truly had nothing to do with them, I'd assume they would be shrugging their shoulders and advising people to stay away from this "knock-off" being produced by an unknown company.
My guess (AND IT'S JUST A GUESS) is that some people associated with Gaspari set-up a stand alone company (that is essentially disposable) to get this product out the door and not draw more attention to themselves. This is an approach I actually advised another company to take rather than walk away from product they had in the pipeline.
Ownership of the company shouldn't be hard to divine. It must have a business license in the state which it is headquartered and such documents are available to the public. The business license will identify the corporate officers and registered agents unless they got real sophisticated and ran things through trusts and other front entities.
My guess (AND IT'S JUST A GUESS) is that some people associated with Gaspari set-up a stand alone company (that is essentially disposable) to get this product out the door and not draw more attention to themselves. This is an approach I actually advised another company to take rather than walk away from product they had in the pipeline.
Ownership of the company shouldn't be hard to divine. It must have a business license in the state which it is headquartered and such documents are available to the public. The business license will identify the corporate officers and registered agents unless they got real sophisticated and ran things through trusts and other front entities.
Modoc
New member
The plot thickens...
Ok kids I have a bottle of this in hand. Here is the info listed on the label for PPL...
Peak Performance Laboratories, LLC.
Merrick, NY 11566
1-877-358-PEAK (7325)
Invalid Link Removed
Check out the web page - It looks like the site of some mom & pop fitness center, no mention of PPL or Promagnon. And no, the website is not a typo, that's exactly what is listed on the bottle.
Ok kids I have a bottle of this in hand. Here is the info listed on the label for PPL...
Peak Performance Laboratories, LLC.
Merrick, NY 11566
1-877-358-PEAK (7325)
Invalid Link Removed
Check out the web page - It looks like the site of some mom & pop fitness center, no mention of PPL or Promagnon. And no, the website is not a typo, that's exactly what is listed on the bottle.
yeahright
Well-known member
Modoc said:
Interesting......different address and phone number listed on the bottle and that listed on the website.....and the website says it is a corporation (inc) while the label info identifies it as a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC). The phone number is unlisted.
yeahright
Well-known member
Bingo!
NYS Department of State
Division of Corporations
Entity Information
Selected Entity Name: PEAK PERFORMANCE LABORATORIES LLC
Selected Entity Status Information Current Entity Name: PEAK PERFORMANCE LABORATORIES LLC
Initial DOS Filing Date: OCTOBER 06, 2005
County: SUFFOLK
Jurisdiction: NEW YORK
Entity Type: DOMESTIC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Current Entity Status: ACTIVE
Selected Entity Address Information DOS Process (Address to which DOS will mail process if accepted on behalf of the entity)
C/O TERRY S. TRIADES
2505 SOUNDVIEW AVENUE
MATTITUCK, NEW YORK, 11952
Registered Agent
NONE
Invalid Link Removed
NYS Department of State
Division of Corporations
Entity Information
Selected Entity Name: PEAK PERFORMANCE LABORATORIES LLC
Selected Entity Status Information Current Entity Name: PEAK PERFORMANCE LABORATORIES LLC
Initial DOS Filing Date: OCTOBER 06, 2005
County: SUFFOLK
Jurisdiction: NEW YORK
Entity Type: DOMESTIC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY
Current Entity Status: ACTIVE
Selected Entity Address Information DOS Process (Address to which DOS will mail process if accepted on behalf of the entity)
C/O TERRY S. TRIADES
2505 SOUNDVIEW AVENUE
MATTITUCK, NEW YORK, 11952
Registered Agent
NONE
Invalid Link Removed
yeahright
Well-known member
BHERTZ said:
Well, we've learned several things. First, this company wasn't even created until October 6th, 2005.....and we can deduce that it was created then for the sole purpose of putting out this product.
The website listed on the bottle links to a mom and pop nutrition center....who obviously don't have a team of crack research chemists slaving away next to the tanning booths. So, they are either tangentally involved or agreed to act as a front.
The attorney listed on the corporation forms seems to be a small-time solo practitioner.....the onyl real record of which I could find was a ruling on a rent-control case:
172 A.D.2d 541, 567 N.Y.S.2d 872
Supreme Court, Appellate Division, Second Department, New York
In the Matter of Terry S. TRIADES, et al., Appellants, v. Manuel MIRABAL, etc., et al., Respondents.
April 1, 1991.
So, we have a mom-and-pop vitamin/tanning bed operation whoe supposedly hires a small-time lawyer to create this front coporation for them in October...and three months later they are selling some pretty sophisticated chemistry along the same supply chain used by the big supplement distributers. This doesn't add up. They are clealy a front for somebody.