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Pro horomones what ones are legit?

tyga tyga said:
Same here. I usually switch over to DC with rear delt accessory work (since Dante doesn't directly incorporate them)If ever use osta in pct again I'll keep it @10mg
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Love me some DC training.10mg in PCT is probably optimal... everyone hates them post-cycle blues when you no longer feel superhuman. Gotta ween off the roids. lol
 
So I'm mid way through week 3, here are some of my questions/ concerns. I'm getting some good gains, but I'm feeling lethargic and moody. Strength is pretty stale too. I dose 4g once a day, should I spread it out to 15mg 3 times a day?
 
Something to think about that no one has really mentioned yet: 16% is a little high even for a big guy like yourself. I'd try and get down at least 2-3% before you start to maximize your gains. My training partner is 6'4" 230 lbs 15-16% and we're going to do the same cycle together in about 3 months. He's spending this summer cutting down slowly so he doesn't lose any mass.

Obviously you want to start sooner, but I think you could easily drop 2-3% in about a month without losing too much mass. HIIT cardio and keep the complex carbs high and you shouldn't lose too much muscle mass.
 
I knew I was on the higher end of BF when I started, I was more looking to gain some quality muscle mass and strength. The mass is coming in pretty good but the strength gains are unimpressive. When I started the cycle my 1rm for bench was 365 , 455 DL and 555 squat and that hasn't changed at all. But I have heard week 3 is when you start to notice strength and muscle gains.
 
Not to be a jerk. But, you're 5'8 230 looking to gain mass at your bf%?? Why? You should be cutting...what's the point of building muscle if you're going to keep it covered up with fat?
 
No offense taken. I've always been a junkie for strength, with not much worry about BF, as long as I keep it in the 16-18% range. Honestly I would feel just as good about myself at 18% and able to deadlift a car then 10-12% and ****ting my pants trying to squat 405.
 
I admire that quality. Seems like more peace of mind to have more of a power lifters mentality. I'm more into the bodybuilders mentality which means I'm constantly pissed off. When cutting, you're obsessed with keeping your gains and struggling to get down in body fat percentage. When bulking, you are trying not to get too fat. You're never happy! lol We are usually trying to appear stronger than we are...I sound like a douchebag now that I say this out loud. haha
 
Lol don't get me wrong I would love to drop it down and look shredded. I've started to do it before then I get all bummed out when my strength goes down. I'm really into doing strongman stuff, axle presses, keg tossing, farmers carrie/hold, sand bag loading( don't have access to atlas stones). So doing all that stuff I eat, a lot of red meat, chicken, sweet potatoes, spinach and fruit. Not to mention bed time, and mid afternoon protein shakes. I haven't been able to find the sweet spot of calorie reduction/keep gains/keep strength
 
Have you ever checked out Elliot Hulse's YouTube channel? He does a lot of that strongman stuff. He calls it Strength Camp or something similar. Check it out if you haven't

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Brian Shaw is my inspiration I've seen a lot of Elliots stuff I like him quite a bit too. Check out Shaw's channel. Jim Wendler too, that guy is awesome.
 
damn....Shaw is a freak. that deadlift with the tires is pretty sick. I tweaked my back just watching that lol
 
Joemama426 said:
No offense taken. I've always been a junkie for strength, with not much worry about BF, as long as I keep it in the 16-18% range. Honestly I would feel just as good about myself at 18% and able to deadlift a car then 10-12% and ****ting my pants trying to squat 405.
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Although I've always been more of the BB mentality I totally get where you're coming from. But think of it as a cost:benefit thing. You're spending 12 weeks and a few hundred on the PH's, supports, PCT, protein, food, etc. You might as well maximize gains and your time as much as possible and this is done by being a lower bodyfat percentage.

Your strength numbers are insane though. What'd I'd give to be somewhat near those lol
 
LGI, Celtic Labs, Iron Flex Supplements, Iron Mag Labs, Black Stone Labs, Iron Legion..(olympus labs is new but getting good reviews)
 
Now to go back to one of my original questions, do I want to start dosing 15mg 3 times a day or stick with 45mg in one dose everyday
 
But again split into one dose or two( one pill morning then one in the evening or two pills in the morning)the product has an approximate half life if 12 hours. Just wanted to know if it's better to keep the substance at a constant level in the body to improve effectiveness.
 
Ya I've tried Dianavar, epilean, tri methyl extreme, tri methyl platinum, all I've ever used is EPG prouducts. I gained 8 from Dianavar, 12 from epilean my first, 23 from extreme and 28 from platinum.
 
Cf19 said:
Ya I've tried Dianavar, epilean, tri methyl extreme, tri methyl platinum, all I've ever used is EPG prouducts. I gained 8 from Dianavar, 12 from epilean my first, 23 from extreme and 28 from platinum.
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Chlorovar?
Edit: that may be lg actually.
 
geniusesq said:
In researching, I found this answer posted on a forum by someone who seems to make some sense. Still would like input from people here with exp though.

Once you get half way into the cycle I would recommend avoiding the temptation to add any weight to the bar regardless of whether you feel you can. Instead if and where strength occurs on cycle from this point instead perform additional reps or even an extra set if the reps become to high.

Then when you start PCT you should drop the volume and increase the weight performing more like a strength range of reps/sets 5x5, 8x3, even 3x5. The reason for this is that when you come off cycle you no longer have a steroid pumping around the system giving you artificial muscle building benefits. Also you have zero natural testosterone from having shut down due to use of the steroid and worse still you have elevated estrogen levels. This all gears towards fat storage and muscle loss and the reality in the weights room is you will struggle to maintain any of the lifts you finished on and with the previously mentioned hormonal issues coupled with lifting less your body will ditch a lot of that new muscle you gained. Our body’s are finely tuned machines that are built for survival and are primarily focussed on keeping us warm and attempting to use as little energy as possible. Therefore muscle is a luxury item and a ‘new’ load of muscle fibre developed in a very short space of time from the cycle require you to give the body a reason to keep them, now if you cannot lift as much or for as long etc it has no reason to do so.

However, by having not bumped the weight at the end you should be able to slap extra plates on come PCT from what you had been using and in doing this you are challenging that new muscle as it is having to lift a weight it has never done so before, and this gives the signals to the body that it needs this muscle to survive should it come across a huge load again.
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Not really correct statements.

Androgen's perform two main functions, they stimulate protein synthesis and glycogen retention, i don't believe they have a specific effect on the CNS.

Hypertrophy is where the increase in protein comes from, hypertrophy is the expanding of already present cells, anabolic's don't cause hyperplasia which is the increase of cell count.

Glycogen is the primary source of energy for muscular exertion, on anabolics when a muscle needs to exert itself it needs energy to do so, so the more glycogen storage in a muscle the more it can exert itself. Laymens terms off anabolic's you are at 100% energy, so say 1 rep of what ever uses 25% of your energy you will get 4 reps before exhaustion, on anabolics your muscular energy storage is boosted to 150-200% of normal so you can get 2-4 more reps before exhaustion.

So in working application, a larger muscle can exert more force, but to exert that force it needs the energy to do so, lastly to exert maximum force your central nervious system needs to activate as much of the muscle as possible.

The main problem with anabolic's is for the rapid gain in muscular tissue, connective tissue isn't stimulated by anabolics so usualy limiting factors for over exertion is connective tissue failure, so yes while you want maximum exertion to stimulate maximum hypertrophy, you want to do so without risking injury.

I don't know what the entire truth to this statement is, but it seems that once you have established a higher level of muscle/cns control the direct effects will deplete after removal of the anabolics but you now have a higher plateau to attain.

nakshe said:
Although I've always been more of the BB mentality I totally get where you're coming from. But think of it as a cost:benefit thing. You're spending 12 weeks and a few hundred on the PH's, supports, PCT, protein, food, etc. You might as well maximize gains and your time as much as possible and this is done by being a lower bodyfat percentage.

Your strength numbers are insane though. What'd I'd give to be somewhat near those lol
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Completely incorrect statement, body fat percentage has almost nothing to do with maximizing gains. Look at any of the top power lifters or strongmen, some of them have very high body fat. Donnie Thompson, Zydrunas Savickas etc.

The only factor body fat put into play is it is one of the tissues that produces aromatase.
 
Nothing in your post even remotely refutes any of the blue text quoted above. All you did was repeat things we all know (or should know) about protein synthesis, and hypertrophy. SMH Looks like you cut and paste parts of it from somewhere without even reading it or understanding what it says.

The blue text above is more an anectdote for people trying to preserve gains while on PCT. Something you apparently missed and don't address. Even if you did, everyone is different. And, some of us may employ different tactics to keep pushing significant weight post cycle. The bottom line is many people lose gains post cycle, because they rode the wave of anabolics the entire time and can't move that amount of weight anymore. The writer suggests manipulating volume towards the end of the cycle so that when you are off, you can still signal to the body that it needs the added muscle (by being able to add weight and introduce the muscle to a greater load). Bodybuilding is an inexact science when you add in the unique variables every person has. Your post doesn't even react to anything on point. It's more like an 8th grade teacher trying to grade papers pointing out what you think is "partially incorrect" by giving a blurb from google that doesn't even relate.
 
geniusesq said:
Nothing in your post even remotely refutes any of the blue text quoted above. All you did was repeat things we all know (or should know) about protein synthesis, and hypertrophy. SMH Looks like you cut and paste parts of it from somewhere without even reading it or understanding what it says.

The blue text above is more an anectdote for people trying to preserve gains while on PCT. Something you apparently missed and don't address. Even if you did, everyone is different. And, some of us may employ different tactics to keep pushing significant weight post cycle. The bottom line is many people lose gains post cycle, because they rode the wave of anabolics the entire time and can't move that amount of weight anymore. The writer suggests manipulating volume towards the end of the cycle so that when you are off, you can still signal to the body that it needs the added muscle (by being able to add weight and introduce the muscle to a greater load). Bodybuilding is an inexact science when you add in the unique variables every person has. Your post doesn't even react to anything on point. It's more like an 8th grade teacher trying to grade papers pointing out what you think is "partially incorrect" by giving a blurb from google that doesn't even relate.
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My point was maximize hypertrophy on cycle within connective tissue limits.

Without hypertrophy your muscle's will not grow, reps and sets are not as beneficial to hypertrophy as increased resistance. All reps and sets primarily do is use glycogen not stress the muscle.

When you come off it isn't the lack of the muscle building steroids that causes a loss of strength it is the lack of excess glycogen storage being able to properly actuate that muscle, and without the stress to the muscle catabolism occurs.
 
what ( if any ) would be the benefit and or detriment to upping my dose to 60mg for the rest of the cycle. so it would be 15mg in the AM 15mg mid day and 30mg evening before training. If you haven't seen this in the thread anywhere I'm taking IronFlex's Brawn ( Epi clone)
 
Never used chloravar heard by a few friends it's amazing with the trenavar in it but never got a chance to use it and it is by epg.
 
00S4Boy said:
My point was maximize hypertrophy on cycle within connective tissue limits.

Without hypertrophy your muscle's will not grow, reps and sets are not as beneficial to hypertrophy as increased resistance. All reps and sets primarily do is use glycogen not stress the muscle.

When you come off it isn't the lack of the muscle building steroids that causes a loss of strength it is the lack of excess glycogen storage being able to properly actuate that muscle, and without the stress to the muscle catabolism occurs.
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That's part of the the point SMH. If you increase volume rather than weight during weeks 8-12 of a cycle, then when you come off, you can continue pushing the muscle (adding resistance) by adding weight and dropping volume. Also, hypertrophy is a result of time under tension--especially on gear. So even if you drop volume, you can reach hypertrophy by performing slower reps focusing on negative resistance and keeping muscle under stress by not locking completely out at the top of a lift. If you can break 60 seconds per set, you can reach hypertrophy on an 8 rep range. Most kids lift too fast to even realize that they are getting the same result by doing 12-15 reps too fast and without proper form.
 
00S4Boy said:
Not really correct statements.

Androgen's perform two main functions, they stimulate protein synthesis and glycogen retention, i don't believe they have a specific effect on the CNS.

Hypertrophy is where the increase in protein comes from, hypertrophy is the expanding of already present cells, anabolic's don't cause hyperplasia which is the increase of cell count.

Glycogen is the primary source of energy for muscular exertion, on anabolics when a muscle needs to exert itself it needs energy to do so, so the more glycogen storage in a muscle the more it can exert itself. Laymens terms off anabolic's you are at 100% energy, so say 1 rep of what ever uses 25% of your energy you will get 4 reps before exhaustion, on anabolics your muscular energy storage is boosted to 150-200% of normal so you can get 2-4 more reps before exhaustion.

So in working application, a larger muscle can exert more force, but to exert that force it needs the energy to do so, lastly to exert maximum force your central nervious system needs to activate as much of the muscle as possible.

The main problem with anabolic's is for the rapid gain in muscular tissue, connective tissue isn't stimulated by anabolics so usualy limiting factors for over exertion is connective tissue failure, so yes while you want maximum exertion to stimulate maximum hypertrophy, you want to do so without risking injury.

I don't know what the entire truth to this statement is, but it seems that once you have established a higher level of muscle/cns control the direct effects will deplete after removal of the anabolics but you now have a higher plateau to attain.



Completely incorrect statement, body fat percentage has almost nothing to do with maximizing gains. Look at any of the top power lifters or strongmen, some of them have very high body fat. Donnie Thompson, Zydrunas Savickas etc.

The only factor body fat put into play is it is one of the tissues that produces aromatase.
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Dude seriously take a chill pill. I assume most people on here take a PH for bodybuilding reasons given this is a mainly a BODYBUILDING forum. So if you're going for looks, then yes, starting at lower BF% totally does matter. This guy obviously is more of the strongman/powerlifting type but he did state he wouldn't mind looking better. You don't need to put me on blast with your Harry Potter length response thesis/dissertation/textbok.

So you're right about the context you were thinking in, and I'm right about the context I thought this topic was in. Let's end it there.
 
Peppers said:
And that's how the cookie crumbles! Lol

Olympus hasn't had a bad review yet, only positive feedback.
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First negative review: I got too vascular and too dry from Elim1nate. Maintained my mass a little too well, looked alpha as f*ck, and became overwhelmed with the amount of p*ssy I was reeling in.
 
nakshe said:
First negative review: I got too vascular and too dry from Elim1nate. Maintained my mass a little too well, looked alpha as f*ck, and became overwhelmed with the amount of p*ssy I was reeling in.
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Damn...I regret ordering the Olympus Epi already ;)
 
geniusesq said:
Have you ever checked out Elliot Hulse's YouTube channel? He does a lot of that strongman stuff. He calls it Strength Camp or something similar. Check it out if you haven't

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I've seen a couple of that dude's videos before... I feel like he just likes to hear himself talk
 
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