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pro-hormones/ pro-steriods and OTC PCT

JazzV

New member
(bear with me as I am still quite new to this)

I'm looking to compose a list of pro-hormones that would be fairly safe to run with OTC PCT. Please include your experience with the cycles you've run and any changes you would make.

Here are two that I would recommend: CEL H-drol and CEL E-stane.

The H-drol I ran for 6 weeks using only an aromatase inhibitor (Novedex XT) and continuing my cycle asist as PCT. I felt no adverse side effects on or off cycle other than some fat gain at the end of my PCT.
Changes I would make to the H-drol cycle PCT would include a cortisol suppressant.

I'm in the middle of my E-stane cycle so I can't speak to that as of yet. My planned PCT is an aromatase inhibitor (Formestane, topical), cortisol control agent ( Suppress C) and an all in one PCT assist (CEL PCT assist).
 
brockles said:
Epistane, o rly?!
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If I'm wrong correct me. I'm here to learn.

active ingriediant: 2a,3a-epithio- 17a-methyl-5a-andostan- 17b-ol
Which doesn't aromatase to estrogen. So I figured a PCT with and AI to keep my own estrogen swing in check I should be okay without a prescription SERM.

please share your experience or horror story.
 
SD doesnt aromatase but few would advocate a OTC PCT

There are many logs of people running epi with OTC PCT, but few have gone SD with and OTC PCT
 
the one. even at 4 caps each day for me, didn't do much. i felt 2nd gear would of been enough.

as grumbo said, bold ph.

and possibly hdrol, if kept at a low dosage.

but all varies person to person.
 
jbryand101b said:
the one. even at 4 caps each day for me, didn't do much. i felt 2nd gear would of been enough.

as grumbo said, bold ph.

and possibly hdrol, if kept at a low dosage.

but all varies person to person.
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i ran The One at 3 caps/day... and only 1kg gain so i stopped after 3 weeks and ran 2nd Gear. Completely fine (as far as i can tell)
 
mark118 said:
i ran The One at 3 caps/day... and only 1kg gain so i stopped after 3 weeks and ran 2nd Gear. Completely fine (as far as i can tell)
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See....without blood work you can't be sure. Even then AIs are just not as effective as SERMs. Period. I think it is just smart to use SERM in PCT, you are basically using an unregulated drug/steroid on cycle.....why not do the same in PCT? (Not aimed at you mark just things to think about)
 
could you kind folks give me a little more info on 'the One' and '2nd gear' so I can look them up?

Ah! a little reading comprehession isssue on my part. 2nd gear is a PCT.

the one is Bold?
 
JazzV said:
could you kind folks give me a little more info on 'the One' and '2nd gear' so I can look them up?

Ah! a little reading comprehession isssue on my part. 2nd gear is a PCT.

the one is Bold?
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Bold 200 or 1,4-Bold is a precursor to Equipoise

The ONE is Methyl-DHT (last I checked) and has been discontinued I believe, 2nd Gear was the packaged PCT product that just had 6-bromo in it.
 
Grambo said:
See....without blood work you can't be sure. Even then AIs are just not as effective as SERMs. Period. I think it is just smart to use SERM in PCT, you are basically using an unregulated drug/steroid on cycle.....why not do the same in PCT? (Not aimed at you mark just things to think about)
Click to expand...

without bloods taken i wouldnt know. i was just basing it off weight gain/loss, libido, change in attitude, balls, and the only difference on cycle compared with off with that my weight went up slightly.

the SERM issue is something many want to avoid (obtaining, risks to using SERMs too eg liver toxicity and vision issues etc...) and some forms of OTC PCT can be effective but carry more risk than a SERM.

There are many logs of people having used OTC PCT and their bloods have been fine after... but many who have suffered and wished they'd gone SERMing.
 
Grambo said:
How old are you? jw
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older than most.....43

I'm new to performance enhancing drugs. At this age, natural isn't cutting it any longer. I figured I'd give 'it' a shot. Take my time. educate myself on the hazards and make my decisions from there.

I figured one of the advantages I have is that my endocrine system responds much slower than those in thier youth. Negative sides might be easier to see coming. I've also kept my doses in the reasonable range and tried to find the milder PHs.
 
JazzV said:
older than most.....43

I'm new to performance enhancing drugs. At this age, natural isn't cutting it any longer. I figured I'd give 'it' a shot. Take my time. educate myself on the hazards and make my decisions from there.

I figured one of the advantages I have is that my endocrine system responds much slower than those in thier youth. Negative sides might be easier to see coming. I've also kept my doses in the reasonable range and tried to find the milder PHs.
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Sides are not going ot come on any slower, but at your age (far from old) sides could be worse actually and you should stay with the mild PH hormones like you have said, with health factors coming more into play the older you are.

Mark

Honestly: The SERM negatives are over exaggerated (unfortunately by many who sell OTCs). Liver toxicity for 4 weeks on a SERM should really not be a big concern. Most of the side effects on people from SERMs are from the long lasting trials and people using them for 1 year+. Don't discount them though, fine line of knowing the sides and using responsibly. Very few people that have used both would take OTC over SERM.
 
Grambo said:
Mark

Honestly: The SERM negatives are over exaggerated (unfortunately by many who sell OTCs). Liver toxicity for 4 weeks on a SERM should really not be a big concern. Most of the side effects on people from SERMs are from the long lasting trials and people using them for 1 year+. Don't discount them though, fine line of knowing the sides and using responsibly. Very few people that have used both would take OTC over SERM.
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I appreciate that, but so often you here people preach SERM without knowing that there are possible draw backs too

but given the choice, i would go SERM
 
Grambo said:
Sides are not going ot come on any slower, but at your age (far from old) sides could be worse actually and you should stay with the mild PH hormones like you have said, with health factors coming more into play the older you are.

Mark

Honestly: The SERM negatives are over exaggerated (unfortunately by many who sell OTCs). Liver toxicity for 4 weeks on a SERM should really not be a big concern. Most of the side effects on people from SERMs are from the long lasting trials and people using them for 1 year+. Don't discount them though, fine line of knowing the sides and using responsibly. Very few people that have used both would take OTC over SERM.
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what about the vision problems Grambo have you experienced this? :)just currious
 
also i believe furaz/furagun to be safe otc imo.
 
flightposite said:
what about the vision problems Grambo have you experienced this? :)just currious
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Some people have them more with Clomid than Nolva though it does occur as well. Never heard anyone using a SERM for 4 weeks having anything permanent. I think that may be more overblown than many things......people are on this stuff for years. I am more conservative on dosing though, as seems the trend.
 
thanks Grambo like everything moderation is key.
 
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