PreWorkouts

Danksta710

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The following is not directed specifically at the quoted poster, but the board at large.

In my opinion, this product has Wayyyy to many stims..and not much else. Anyone who says they "need" that many stims has such a high stim tolerance that their adrenals are shot. This is not only harmful to one's health, but performance, recovery and growth. Look at this stim profile...

400 mg caffeine
200 mg synthetic DMHA
60 mg DMAA

That's enough stims to make a lot of people feel like total **** and even impair workout perfrmance. In my opinion, if someone wants a stim-based pre-workout product, they should be added for the express purpose of improving workout performance...not to get high. Even worse, if the specific types of compounds and doses provided are so high that they hinder recovery and growth, well, then it defeats the entire purpose.

This product woul actually be detrimental to performance, recovery, and growth. That stim profile would cause a pretty large spike in cortisol, thereby directly impairing recovery and growth. It would also cause significant increases in bloodpressure and heat rate--the last thing most PED using (or even drug-free) bodybuilders need.

If someone is going to make a product with those doses of stims, they should just make a stand-alone stim product...and stop pretending that these type of products are actually bevendial for a bodybuilder's goals. Now, i am NOT anti-stim. I just released a solo stim product yesterday, but this is for people to use under circumstances they see fit. I would never add a stim profile like we see abive to a pre-0wkrout. If I was going to use stims ina pre-training product, I would very likely use caffeine, dynamine and theacrine, as this combo would not only prevents increases in BP and heart rate (assumingh the caffeine doise doesn't get too high), but it doesn't increase cortisol and it makes the user feel great with tons of energy and focus.. If the user wants to improve peformance even further without altering cortisol levels or cardiovascular health markers, then some nootropics should be employed. But these ridiculous super high doses of cortisol, BP and heart rateelevating stim blends are counterintuitive to a bodybuilder's goals...in terms of performance, recovery and growth.

If someone's [rimary purpose for using a pre-training product is just to et high, then I can understand why they would buy something like this, but to be hinest, if getting high was my goal, I wouldn't be using conventional pre-workout products before training. I would be using research amphetamines. I guess i just don't see the point in these kind if products. In my opinion (and the opinion of anyone who knows anything about formulating pre-workout products for the purpose of enhancing performance, recovery and growth gials) my stim-based pre-workout product (that I am currently working on) is about 10X better.
Well said and I agree with everything you said.

I agree these shouldn't be marketed as pre workout but as a stim product. I used it more for work than a workout. It's actually too strong and takes away focus for lifts.

I think a lot of folks buy these from brick and mortars because it's otc legal stims. No need to do research and anything else required to get RC's off the internet.

Thanks for your informative post
 

Mike Arnold

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Well said and I agree with everything you said.

I agree these shouldn't be marketed as pre workout but as a stim product. I used it more for work than a workout. It's actually too strong and takes away focus for lifts.

I think a lot of folks buy these from brick and mortars because it's otc legal stims. No need to do research and anything else required to get RC's off the internet.

Thanks for your informative post
I'm glad you see things the same way. These products are fine as long as they are advertised as potent stim blends, but advertising them as pre-training products doesn't sit well with me...because most people (especially the younger guys or people who haven't done much research) are going to think this product will help them enhance recovery and growth.
 

Resolve10

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I'm glad you see things the same way. These products are fine as long as they are advertised as potent stim blends, but advertising them as pre-training products doesn't sit well with me...because most people (especially the younger guys or people who haven't done much research) are going to think this product will help them enhance recovery and growth.
I agree with you and that long post before this.

But try telling that to people, it’s hard. And then people get mad when new effective preworkouts are released but don’t have some super special new stim or doesn’t feel like you are cracked out. ?*♂
 

Danksta710

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I'm glad you see things the same way. These products are fine as long as they are advertised as potent stim blends, but advertising them as pre-training products doesn't sit well with me...because most people (especially the younger guys or people who haven't done much research) are going to think this product will help them enhance recovery and growth.
Exactly. They do the opposite of what they claim. They hold back gains in many ways. They can often increase workrate but if they raise cortisol and kill your appetite what was the point of that workout? Very counterproductive to the serious lifter imo.

I still enjoy that stim rush here and there and it's nice we have these products.

I never recommend these to ppl IRL. An energy drink is all I recommend.
 
The Solution

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The following is not directed specifically at the quoted poster, but the board at large.

In my opinion, this product has Wayyyy to many stims..and not much else. Anyone who says they "need" that many stims has such a high stim tolerance that their adrenals are shot. This is not only harmful to one's health, but performance, recovery and growth. Look at this stim profile...

400 mg caffeine
200 mg synthetic DMHA
60 mg DMAA

That's enough stims to make a lot of people feel like total **** .
Mike,
You know better after working in the industry for so long.
People have the mentality of More = Better
There is a law of diminishing returns most people have no clue about, and think "If I take more it will give me more results"

Reading Comprehension and Directions.. May as well toss them out the window because nobody cares to read or follow them anyways haha.
 

offredjo

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MA Resarch sells DMAA.
Is you’re DMAA actual DMAA? I just ask that because I’ve been burnt 3 times buying “pure” dmaa only to find out it was actually n-methyltyramine labeled as DMAA. Then after doing much research I found out this practice is common especially with smaller shady companies. Apparently they are trying to pass off n-methyltyramine as DMAA. I’m not accusing you as I’ve never tried your product (but i definitely want too as long as it’s really DMAA). I want to know if you have COAs to prove it’s been tested as actual pure 1,3-dimethylamylamine.
 

Mike Arnold

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Mike,
You know better after working in the industry for so long.
People have the mentality of More = Better
There is a law of diminishing returns most people have no clue about, and think "If I take more it will give me more results"

Reading Comprehension and Directions.. May as well toss them out the window because nobody cares to read or follow them anyways haha.
True, but when it comes to OTC supps, this is one of, if not the most educated board I've seen. A lot of emphasis is placed on supps here, which makes it a good place to learn about these things..
 

Mike Arnold

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Is you’re DMAA actual DMAA? I just ask that because I’ve been burnt 3 times buying “pure” dmaa only to find out it was actually n-methyltyramine labeled as DMAA. Then after doing much research I found out this practice is common especially with smaller shady companies. Apparently they are trying to pass off n-methyltyramine as DMAA. I’m not accusing you as I’ve never tried your product (but i definitely want too as long as it’s really DMAA). I want to know if you have COAs to prove it’s been tested as actual pure 1,3-dimethylamylamine.
I've never heard of anyone making that substitution, but if it has been done, I find it odd, as DMAA is already quite inexpensive to make and neither is it hard to obtain. Many companies made big bucks off of selling DMAA-based products combined with various proprietary blends of non-stim compounds. In other words, these products may have listed 15 differnet ingredents on the label, but 14 of them were included at fairy dust amounts, while DMAA (and often caffeine) were included at high doses.

This type of formula provides the company with HUGE profit margins, as a product containing primarily DMAA and caffeine costs only a few bucks--literally--to make.

So, again, I'm not sure why any company would purposely substitute an already cheap compound for something else that barely works. Did they really think that saving a few pennies was worth their reputation?

Anyway, yes, what MA Research sells is DMAA, not n-methyltyramine. PM me. I have an offer for you.
 
Old Witch

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Why the dhea? Inflammation reasons?
Well, if it’s dosed preworkout, it’s active in your system during the 30-45 mins of training. This means slight strength increases, some training aggression, a little more focus, and yes, less inflamed joints.

DHEA is an extremely mild steroid. It’s mostly noticeable AFTER YOU STOP using it. Then you really miss it.
 
Old Witch

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The following is not directed specifically at the quoted poster, but the board at large.

In my opinion, this product has Wayyyy to many stims..and not much else. Anyone who says they "need" that many stims has such a high stim tolerance that their adrenals are shot. This is not only harmful to one's health, but performance, recovery and growth. Look at this stim profile...

400 mg caffeine
200 mg synthetic DMHA
60 mg DMAA

That's enough stims to make a lot of people feel like total **** and even impair workout perfrmance. In my opinion, if someone wants to include stims in a pre-workout product, they should be added for the express purpose of improving workout performance...not to get high. Even worse, if the specific types of compounds and doses provided are so high that they hinder recovery and growth, well, then it defeats the entire purpose.

This product woul actually be detrimental to performance, recovery, and growth. That stim profile would cause a pretty large spike in cortisol, thereby directly impairing recovery and growth. It would also cause significant increases in bloodpressure and heat rate--the last thing most PED using (or even drug-free) bodybuilders need.

If someone is going to make a product with those stims at those doses, they should just make a stand-alone stim product...and stop pretending that these type of products are actually benificial for a bodybuilder's goals. Now, with that said, I am NOT anti-stim. I just released a solo stim product yesterday, but this is for people to use under circumstances they see fit. I would never add a stim blend to a pre-workout like we see in this product. If I was going to use stims in a pre-training product, I would very likely use caffeine, dynamine and theacrine, as this combo would not only prevent increases in BP and heart rate (assuming the caffeine dose doesn't get too high), but it doesn't increase cortisol and it makes the user feel great with tons of energy and focus.. If the user wants to improve peformance even further without altering cortisol levels or cardiovascular health markers, then some nootropics should be employed. But the above stim blend is counterintuitive to a bodybuilder's goals, as it increases cortisol, BP and heart rate.

If someone's primary purpose for using a pre-training product is just to get high, then I can understand why they would buy something like this, but to be honest, if getting high before training was my goal, I wouldn't be using conventional pre-workout products. I would be using research amphetamines. I guess I just don't see the point in these kind of products. In my opinion (and the opinion of anyone who knows anything about formulating pre-workout products for the purpose of enhancing performance, recovery and growth goals), my stim-based pre-workout product (that I am currently working on) is about 10X better than this...at least from a bodybuilding standpoint.
But it would provide performance enhancement... dmaa and DMHA are basically long acting epinephrine and they provide pretty massive strength increases by that very merit. They don’t get you high. Not like amphetamine and other phenylethylamines do.
 
Old Witch

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The following is not directed specifically at the quoted poster, but the board at large.

In my opinion, this product has Wayyyy to many stims..and not much else. Anyone who says they "need" that many stims has such a high stim tolerance that their adrenals are shot. This is not only harmful to one's health, but performance, recovery and growth. Look at this stim profile...

400 mg caffeine
200 mg synthetic DMHA
60 mg DMAA

That's enough stims to make a lot of people feel like total **** and even impair workout perfrmance. In my opinion, if someone wants to include stims in a pre-workout product, they should be added for the express purpose of improving workout performance...not to get high. Even worse, if the specific types of compounds and doses provided are so high that they hinder recovery and growth, well, then it defeats the entire purpose.

This product woul actually be detrimental to performance, recovery, and growth. That stim profile would cause a pretty large spike in cortisol, thereby directly impairing recovery and growth. It would also cause significant increases in bloodpressure and heat rate--the last thing most PED using (or even drug-free) bodybuilders need.

If someone is going to make a product with those stims at those doses, they should just make a stand-alone stim product...and stop pretending that these type of products are actually benificial for a bodybuilder's goals. Now, with that said, I am NOT anti-stim. I just released a solo stim product yesterday, but this is for people to use under circumstances they see fit. I would never add a stim blend to a pre-workout like we see in this product. If I was going to use stims in a pre-training product, I would very likely use caffeine, dynamine and theacrine, as this combo would not only prevent increases in BP and heart rate (assuming the caffeine dose doesn't get too high), but it doesn't increase cortisol and it makes the user feel great with tons of energy and focus.. If the user wants to improve peformance even further without altering cortisol levels or cardiovascular health markers, then some nootropics should be employed. But the above stim blend is counterintuitive to a bodybuilder's goals, as it increases cortisol, BP and heart rate.

If someone's primary purpose for using a pre-training product is just to get high, then I can understand why they would buy something like this, but to be honest, if getting high before training was my goal, I wouldn't be using conventional pre-workout products. I would be using research amphetamines. I guess I just don't see the point in these kind of products. In my opinion (and the opinion of anyone who knows anything about formulating pre-workout products for the purpose of enhancing performance, recovery and growth goals), my stim-based pre-workout product (that I am currently working on) is about 10X better than this...at least from a bodybuilding standpoint.
If I was trying to get high, that’s the very
LAST thing I’d be looking at, you don’t want dmaa, lol... to get high... rofl. You want hordenine and PEA or BMPEA and similar.

Trying to get high on dmaa is like trying to get high on a car battery or a nasal inhaler. Your heart would pop before you ever felt a real euphoria.
 
Old Witch

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People seems to have a major cognitive dissonance about the purposes of certain ingredients in preworkout.

If you’re trying to get high on dmaa, you’re an idiot and deserve the heart problems. That’s not what it’s for, it’s not a normal stimulant like amphetamine.
 
Old Witch

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Likewise, the *******s who make non-PWO stim products full of dmaa also need to die a slow death befitting of imbeciles.
 
Old Witch

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If it ISNT for lifting weights, it SHOULD NOT have aliphatic amines in it.
 
TheSuppGuy

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Guys. Should I throw away my mesomorph tubs or use them? I don't want to f up my dopamine receptors like drugs usually do and DMAA do at a smaller amount. You get a little high from it and sleep is f:d up, also pain in ears sometimes?? Probably blood pressure issue? Thoughts?
 

Mike Arnold

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If I was trying to get high, that’s the very
LAST thing I’d be looking at, you don’t want dmaa, lol... to get high... rofl. You want hordenine and PEA or BMPEA and similar.

Trying to get high on dmaa is like trying to get high on a car battery or a nasal inhaler. Your heart would pop before you ever felt a real euphoria.
I beg to differ. I believe your definition of what it is to be "high", as well as the means necessary for achieving it, has been skewed through both cultural programming within the context of illcit drug use as defined by law, as well as subjective experience obtained via personal reponse. This, in turn, has altered your paradigm, causing you to define the term "high" within a more limited framework.

Getting "high", by its very definition, is a state in which pleasurable feelings, either physical or mental, are induced through the use of a foreign substance. By this defintion, even caffeine can provide a "high". In fact, caffeine can make people feel pretty darn great under the right circumstances (no tolerance, the ideal physiological reponse, proper dosing, etc.). Therefore, anything which has the potential to induce pleasurable effects would be considered capable of producing a "high".

There are many receptors capable of producing or contributing to a state of being "high", the most prominent of which are dopamine and opioid receptors. All stimulants are dopaminergic to one degree or another and therefore capable of producing pleasurable feelings to various degrees. DMAA is mos definitely dopaminergic, with plenty of PubMed studies to prove it. Many researchers have even classified as a potentially abusive substance for this very reason and it is part of the reason the FDA banned it.

The proof for this has already been demonstarted in the real world. Prior to its ban, a LOT of people were absing DMAA. Some guys/gals would take the stuff almost daily at high doses for months on end; often in combnation with other high dose stims, such as caffeine, etc.

Why were these people taking it? To improve training performance? Well, that might make sense if it was used during certain competitive sports, but 95% of the people who took DMAA were those who wanted to build muscle and/or increase strength. In this case it makes no sense at all, as these high dose stim products actually retard growth and strength gains via increased cortisol levels, decreased sleep quality, appetite suppression, impaired adrenal function, etc. Being able to train a little harder may be nice on occasion (no one should be training at 100% intensity all the time anyway), but not if it's at the expense of acheiving one's goals.

In other words, improving training performance is not the primary reason these people use DMAA, as its use is counterproductive to goal acheivement. The reason they take it is because they LIKE they way it makes them feel, which is called getting "high". No one would be taking this stuff daily for extended period of time for any other reason.

Now, you may not like the way it makes you feel, but there wer a LOT of people out there who loved it! Personal response can vary greatly when it comes to ALL classes of drugs. For example, I don't like the ay alcohol makes me feel, yet it is one of the most absued drugs in the world. Clearly, many people LOVE the way they feel when under the influence of alcohol. It's the same with opioids. My wife HATES the way she feels on Vicodin (she had a prescription because oif an injury) or any opioid. Se said she just feels tuired sn want to go to bed. As for me, I absolutely loved the way opioids made me feel..so much so that I eventually became addicted to them for years before finally cleaning up my act. Stimulants are no different, and either are benzos, marijuana, tobacco, hallucinagens, or any other drug. There are always going to be people on boths sides of the fence, with one group of people loving them and another group hating them.

So, while these high dose stim blends may not be your cup of tea, or as potent of a mood enhancer as say, methamphetamine, they still provide a "high" for many people, which is exactly why the substance was/is so abused.
 

Mike Arnold

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Guys. Should I throw away my mesomorph tubs or use them? I don't want to f up my dopamine receptors like drugs usually do and DMAA do at a smaller amount. You get a little high from it and sleep is f:d up, also pain in ears sometimes?? Probably blood pressure issue? Thoughts?
I wouldn't go so far as to throw them away. Even very potent stims that cause massive dopamine release, such as methamphetamine or cocaine, can be safely used without messing up your dopaminergic system, so long as they are only used occasonally (note: I do not condone nor recommend the use of either of these substances, but mention them simply to illustrate the differences between OTC and controlled stims from a dopaminergic recovery standpoint).

Stimulants such as DMAA can be used more often than these drugs without causing meaningful harm, but daily use should definitely still be avoided. Personally, I would limit the use of these high dose stim products to a maximum of 3 days per week...and after a couple months of use, take at least 3-4 weeks off entirely. If you do this you should be just fine. This is especially true if you supplement with products designed to speed recovery of the adrenal and dopaminergic systems.

Even caffeine can cause problems if abused, but moderate (100-200 mg/daily) is generally considered OK. Just remember, the more poweful the stim (either from a dopaminergic or CNS stimulating standpoint), the less frequently it should be used. If you follow this rule you should be fine. I wouldn't have just released a solo stim product if I didn't think they could be used safely, but all of us should educate ourselves when it comes to what we are putting in our bodies We deserve to know both the benefits AND risks, so we can make decisions in our best interest.
 
Smont

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Guys. Should I throw away my mesomorph tubs or use them? I don't want to f up my dopamine receptors like drugs usually do and DMAA do at a smaller amount. You get a little high from it and sleep is f:d up, also pain in ears sometimes?? Probably blood pressure issue? Thoughts?
Send them to me, i like mesomorph
 
ValiantThor08

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Any proof a moderate dose of DMAA or DMHA will raise cortisol so significantly that it will inhibit gains? Especially if combined with a low/mod dose of caffiene.
 
TheSuppGuy

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I beg to differ. I believe your definition of what it is to be "high", as well as the means necessary for achieving it, has been skewed through both cultural programming within the context of illcit drug use as defined by law, as well as subjective experience obtained via personal reponse. This, in turn, has altered your paradigm, causing you to define the term "high" within a more limited framework.

Getting "high", by its very definition, is a state in which pleasurable feelings, either physical or mental, are induced through the use of a foreign substance. By this defintion, even caffeine can provide a "high". In fact, caffeine can make people feel pretty darn great under the right circumstances (no tolerance, the ideal physiological reponse, proper dosing, etc.). Therefore, anything which has the potential to induce pleasurable effects would be considered capable of producing a "high".

There are many receptors capable of producing or contributing to a state of being "high", the most prominent of which are dopamine and opioid receptors. All stimulants are dopaminergic to one degree or another and therefore capable of producing pleasurable feelings to various degrees. DMAA is mos definitely dopaminergic, with plenty of PubMed studies to prove it. Many researchers have even classified as a potentially abusive substance for this very reason and it is part of the reason the FDA banned it.

The proof for this has already been demonstarted in the real world. Prior to its ban, a LOT of people were absing DMAA. Some guys/gals would take the stuff almost daily at high doses for months on end; often in combnation with other high dose stims, such as caffeine, etc.

Why were these people taking it? To improve training performance? Well, that might make sense if it was used during certain competitive sports, but 95% of the people who took DMAA were those who wanted to build muscle and/or increase strength. In this case it makes no sense at all, as these high dose stim products actually retard growth and strength gains via increased cortisol levels, decreased sleep quality, appetite suppression, impaired adrenal function, etc. Being able to train a little harder may be nice on occasion (no one should be training at 100% intensity all the time anyway), but not if it's at the expense of acheiving one's goals.

In other words, improving training performance is not the primary reason these people use DMAA, as its use is counterproductive to goal acheivement. The reason they take it is because they LIKE they way it makes them feel, which is called getting "high". No one would be taking this stuff daily for extended period of time for any other reason.

Now, you may not like the way it makes you feel, but there wer a LOT of people out there who loved it! Personal response can vary greatly when it comes to ALL classes of drugs. For example, I don't like the ay alcohol makes me feel, yet it is one of the most absued drugs in the world. Clearly, many people LOVE the way they feel when under the influence of alcohol. It's the same with opioids. My wife HATES the way she feels on Vicodin (she had a prescription because oif an injury) or any opioid. Se said she just feels tuired sn want to go to bed. As for me, I absolutely loved the way opioids made me feel..so much so that I eventually became addicted to them for years before finally cleaning up my act. Stimulants are no different, and either are benzos, marijuana, tobacco, hallucinagens, or any other drug. There are always going to be people on boths sides of the fence, with one group of people loving them and another group hating them.

So, while these high dose stim blends may not be your cup of tea, or as potent of a mood enhancer as say, methamphetamine, they still provide a "high" for many people, which is exactly why the substance was/is so abused.
I get a nice caffeine high alot of times :) also DMAA DEFINATELY makes me reach a high. Music sounds better. I feel "smarter" or more focused/concentrated on it. The music thing is real though, and I can feel a dominance in the gym, as wierd as it sounds...
 
soxbsbll05

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Definitely agree with earlier posts on BZRK. The focus and general overall happiness that it brings is awesome!
 

Muckl3

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Thanks guys, I work nights and workout just before my shift so crashing a few hours into a 12 hour shift is brutal.
 
Old Witch

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I’m just gonna go ahead and say that dmaa, a pressor amine double the strength of epinephrine, should not be used to get high, and should only be used for performance enhancement.

Those who do, don’t understand what it does.


If a dopaminergic response is desired, phenylethylamines and hordenine should be used instead. They are much safer than DMAA. Amphetamine itself is much asafer than DMAA, if we’re talking about just getting a feeling.

However, amphetamine does not have that pressor activity, therefore does not cause massive immediate jumps in strength such as DMAA does. Also does not tax the heart as much as DMAA does. Pure adrenaline doesn’t even tax the heart as much as DMAA.
 
Old Witch

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The problem with dmaa is that people limit their dosage based on the dopaminergic response they get rather than the pressor response, and that is a recipe for disaster.
 

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I’m just gonna go ahead and say that dmaa, a pressor amine double the strength of epinephrine, should not be used to get high, and should only be used for performance enhancement.

Those who do, don’t understand what it does.


If a dopaminergic response is desired, phenylethylamines and hordenine should be used instead. They are much safer than DMAA. Amphetamine itself is much asafer than DMAA, if we’re talking about just getting a feeling.

However, amphetamine does not have that pressor activity, therefore does not cause massive immediate jumps in strength such as DMAA does. Also does not tax the heart as much as DMAA does. Pure adrenaline doesn’t even tax the heart as much as DMAA.
I agree wholeheatedly that there are many other drugs which cause a better high than DMAA, but my point was that people do indeed use it for that purpose.
 
Old Witch

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I agree wholeheatedly that there are many other drugs which cause a better high than DMAA, but my point was that people do indeed use it for that purpose.
Right, and my point is while they may, I think the company who makes such a product is focused on performance rather than a high. Unless the company owner is a big dummy.

Generally when a company JUST wants to get you high they leave out the dmaa, but keep all the amphetamine analogs. Or put unscheduled opioids in it. That’s been my observation.

I mean, we can’t just pretend like a big pile of Synephrines, nor synephrines, and aliphatic amines is INTENDED only to get someone high, because it isn’t; those are highly ergogenic stimulants.
 

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If I was trying to get high, that’s the very
LAST thing I’d be looking at, you don’t want dmaa, lol... to get high... rofl. You want hordenine and PEA or BMPEA and similar.

Trying to get high on dmaa is like trying to get high on a car battery or a nasal inhaler. Your heart would pop before you ever felt a real euphoria.
That's great stuff!
 
Darkheart

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Is you’re DMAA actual DMAA? I just ask that because I’ve been burnt 3 times buying “pure” dmaa only to find out it was actually n-methyltyramine labeled as DMAA. Then after doing much research I found out this practice is common especially with smaller shady companies. Apparently they are trying to pass off n-methyltyramine as DMAA. I’m not accusing you as I’ve never tried your product (but i definitely want too as long as it’s really DMAA). I want to know if you have COAs to prove it’s been tested as actual pure 1,3-dimethylamylamine.
Last I read dmaa was pulled, with HI Tech pharma being the last to use dmaa in its Mesomorph. Did something happen in this last year that allowed its use again or is there a loophole?
 

Mr Giggles

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Ephedrine or AMP Citrate.

Honestly, I have tried so many over the counter pre workouts and non of them really work.

It all goes back to the saying: if you can buy it over the counter, it does NOT work. I believe this rings true.

Many of the old school lifers today say that back in the day, 60/70/80s, people trained a lot harder, had better physiques and were stronger than todays gym goers. Given what was available back then, I am not surprised.
 

Muckl3

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Ephedrine or AMP Citrate.

Honestly, I have tried so many over the counter pre workouts and non of them really work.

It all goes back to the saying: if you can buy it over the counter, it does NOT work. I believe this rings true.

Many of the old school lifers today say that back in the day, 60/70/80s, people trained a lot harder, had better physiques and were stronger than todays gym goers. Given what was available back then, I am not surprised.
I don’t think bodybuilders back then were wimps like us now and needed pre workouts stims, maybe a coffee but could be wrong.

Today it’s like most of us have ocd, we need to have everything programmed out, need to have access to certain machines, need to have pre, intra, fat burners.......or why bother lifting? I’m not like that anymore but allot of guys are, it’s to much thinking and not enough doing.
 

Mr Giggles

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I don’t think bodybuilders back then were wimps like us now and needed pre workouts stims, maybe a coffee but could be wrong.

Today it’s like most of us have ocd, we need to have everything programmed out, need to have access to certain machines, need to have pre, intra, fat burners.......or why bother lifting? I’m not like that anymore but allot of guys are, it’s to much thinking and not enough doing.
Would have to agree with that tbh. I do think today, that many lifters place to much emphasis on planning then actually doing. Too much information overload and making things harder than they need to be.

It used to be: eat (depending on your goals), train hard, pull back when needed and enjoy your down time. That was it.

All the information today has simply confused the **** out of most new guys.
 

Muckl3

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Would have to agree with that tbh. I do think today, that many lifters place to much emphasis on planning then actually doing. Too much information overload and making things harder than they need to be.

It used to be: eat (depending on your goals), train hard, pull back when needed and enjoy your down time. That was it.

All the information today has simply confused the **** out of most new guys.
Exactly, you explained it better than I did :)
 
Old Witch

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Back in the day they/we also had lifting parties which isn’t a thing at all anymore. The thing is, that’s where the stims in bodybuilding come from in my opinion. Take a little amphetamine and lift all night with your buddies on Friday night, sleep all day Saturday.
 
Old Witch

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Here’s a fun lesson in ergogenic stimulants:

The ergogenic power of a stimulant has entirely to do with its pressor activity as does its effects on your heart and blood vessels, which is generally regarded as also its level of danger. Adrenaline (epinephrine) has a pressor level of 100. It is the base level against which other stims are judged for pressor activity. It also has a half life of under a minute.

1,3 DMAA has a pressor level of 200 and has a half life of nearly nine hours

Amphetamine has a pressor level of 0.5

So, dmaa is obviously highly ergogenic, we all know how strong adrenaline can be for feats of emergent strength. And amphetamine is not.

And then you have synephrines and norsynephrines. Powerful pressor amines in themselves as well.

So what does it all mean?

Well, if you just want razor focus, alertness, energy, and euphoria...

A normal medical dose of amphetamine 5mg would be by its very nature a far safer means to that end than any of the hardcore preworkouts.

Alternately, if you want something which is sure to increase aggressive energy, and provide a strong CNS command of muscle tissue resulting in ergogenic aid, and are totally fine with the associated and totally crazy unsafe acute blood pressure increases it may cause... then hardcore preworkouts are for you. They’re stronger than pure adrenaline and amphetamine combined.
 

Muckl3

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Here’s a fun lesson in ergogenic stimulants:

The ergogenic power of a stimulant has entirely to do with its pressor activity as does its effects on your heart and blood vessels, which is generally regarded as also its level of danger. Adrenaline (epinephrine) has a pressor level of 100. It is the base level against which other stims are judged for pressor activity. It also has a half life of under a minute.

1,3 DMAA has a pressor level of 200 and has a half life of nearly nine hours

Amphetamine has a pressor level of 0.5

So, dmaa is obviously highly ergogenic, we all know how strong adrenaline can be for feats of emergent strength. And amphetamine is not.

And then you have synephrines and norsynephrines. Powerful pressor amines in themselves as well.

So what does it all mean?

Well, if you just want razor focus, alertness, energy, and euphoria...

A normal medical dose of amphetamine 5mg would be by its very nature a far safer means to that end than any of the hardcore preworkouts.

Alternately, if you want something which is sure to increase aggressive energy, and provide a strong CNS command of muscle tissue resulting in ergogenic aid, and are totally fine with the associated and totally crazy unsafe acute blood pressure increases it may cause... then hardcore preworkouts are for you. They’re stronger than pure adrenaline and amphetamine combined.
Very interesting, kinda scary when put like that too.
 

Gamble511

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Just bought VasoBlitz. What’s a good stim to combine with it? Also taking kingslayer OL and AlphaBolix Test Reaper
 
The Solution

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Just bought VasoBlitz. What’s a good stim to combine with it? Also taking kingslayer OL and AlphaBolix Test Reaper
Grab the Fullblitz
we have a stack right now for super cheap
$55 for Both Full Blitz + Vaso Blitz + Shaker

VasoBlitz is usually $29.75
FullBlitz is usually $34

So you are saving another $10 + a free shaker on top of it

https://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-deals/310051-build-fast-formula.html#post6205441


1 Container FullBlitz
1 Container VasoBlitz
Shaker
$55.25 after Discount


Www.buildfastformula.com
Coupon: Bob15
15% Off and Free Shipping

Limited Time Offer

View attachment 181402

If you don't want to commit to full tubs, you can grab samples
The samples also get free shipping, so it won't hurt to try before buying
 

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